Today I saw a beginner who was getting a lesson from someone put a 13 meter 4 line kite up in close to 20kts. Fair enough I thought, although I myself would no way teach any of my friends in that wind on that big a kite, even if it was their only option.

Anyhow to sum up what happened, he turned the kite too much after launch and went too quickly to the top of the window, was picked up and nearly flinished it off with a kiteloop after crashing but was EXTREMELY lucky it (the kite ) hit the water and just managed to stop before looping ( and no doubt he would have ended up on the road or in the trees. ) .........but wait there's more....

then I spotted the fact that he either undid his safety leash himself after this or it just fell off his wrist while he stood there ( still hooked in i believe mind you ) with the kite sitting dead downwind on it's side, just as the instructor got to him, they continued to then relaunch and i believe he did it unhooked this time and to no suprise, as soon as it took off he let go due to too much power and the kite flew off by itself in twenty or so kts towards the happy residents in Applecross. luckily there was no-one in-between him and the tree that it hit!......................................
..........................................but wait there's more

not more than 15 minutes later , same 2 people but this time on a different kite ( probably because the first one got damaged ) trying it all again on about a 12 metre size kite this time with a 5th line system ( im fully ripping on a 10 depowered! and the beginner was about my size ) and somehow EXACTLY THE SAME THING HAPPENS, this time learner starts to throw a loop or mis-control the kite and bails, there's no 5th line activation and AGAIN somehow the safety has come undone, kite flies down the beach, misses the tree it hit last time and this time lands on the middle of Melville Beach Rd.

This message is for both new kiters and people instructing others to kite, if it's windy and you will be powered up then DON'T LET A BEGINNER DO THE TAKEOFF FOR GOD SAKE! unless he can already fly it around, body drag, relaunch and engage his safety automatically with his eyes closed.

There was something wrong with both of those safety leashes and its well worth paying $100 for for a descent safety leash ( non scissor type ) that could save your life, or in this case some1 elses. and obviously if you have a 5th line kite the practice engaging it every time you go out and if you only have a 4 line kite and are a beginner, then either sell it and get a 5th line, or put up with the fact your saftey is going to require a re-rig and swim in!

My 2 cents

That's why I had lessons with a professional and am going to get more........
I'm still not confident enough to go out without an instructor (yes I am a wuss)
But next time I get a lesson I am going to use MY kite. (as long as they think I am ready to use my kite of course)

At the risk of being a smartarse which I'm not intending, kind of underpins why it's a good idea to know a little about the subtle art of teaching kitesurfing. Instructor training really helps to keep students and everyone around them safe.

Should have seen all the crazy beginers rockin up at pinnas and trying to launch 10,11,12 m kites in 25 knots gusting to round 28/29 today when most of us were fully powered up on 7/9m... Almost witnessed a few very serious accidents!!

If you don't see kiters at the spot who look like they know what there doing using a similar size kite or larger to what u have and u urself are not a confident kiter then don't even bother riggin up unless your confident in your insurance payout, not to mention the people u could hurt in the process!!!!

We had idiots launching kites that looked far to big 15m from a popular footpath, 50m from a main road with no beach, a fence, pine trees and power lines in onshore conditions. The whole time there's a perfectly good sandbar that gives you 100m of water down wind. When they got out with everyone else one of them tried to do some stupid trick which would have been better to practice in say 15knots or with a kite to match the wind, he downed the kite amongst all the windsurfers and kiter's tangled his lines then drifted in.

I'm certainly no pro, I can go up wind and jump kind of, but will always look for the safest options. These guy's have probably kited for a while, my concern is that people learning may look and think that's how you do it and after getting a few lesson give it a try. I'm amazed at some of the recent stories lately and no one has been seriously injured (sorry IBEZA). They all seem to have a common word in there too LUCKY, one day it will be like the ibeza incident. UNLUCKY

If I wasn't required to leave so soon I would have gone down and politely asked them why they don't walk around 100m to the common launching area. Maybe next time, you just don't know who your dealing with these days.

On a positive note enjoyed today very much, such a nice consistent wind. First time in a long time I haven't had to keep adjusting depower, so much more fun.

Bump.

Melville crew is going to have to be more pro-active; I say take photos of these "instructors" and "beginners," that is after you have done all the right and polite stuff. Let us identify the culprits and where they are getting their gear and advice from.

If Melville gets banned expect to see even more crowding and danger at all other metro spots. What happens at Melville will effect us all.

Good point gruezi.

This is how I interpreted the 2nd incident down at Melville.

The instructor was hooked in to the kite and had the student launching the kite. Looked a bit dodge already there since the student didn't really know how to get the kite up. Anyways they got the kite up and he walked out in the water getting instructions from the instructor. I guess they were going to have the instructor hand the kite off to him in the water and next thing I see the kite flies away and lands over the road. I don't know but it seamed to me they hadn't put the students leash on the bar before they did the hand-off?!? Otherwise it wouldn't have flown off like that.. Luckily no cars/people were around but only 30 seconds later a guy came down the road on his bicycle. Wouldn't have been fun if he'd been a bit earlier and the kite had hit him.

It's hard to police these things but the way things are going it's only a matter of time before something happens

Lesson to all people instructing especially to mates who want to learn: invest in the 800-1000 bucks it costs for the IKO instructor couse and make a business out of it.
I agree with Nutzzz. Too many kiters not trained as instructors teachng that don't know the correct teaching methods.
From my understanding: if your student does have a mishap and injurs themselves or others your general WAKSA/AKSA insurance will not cover you. Only IKO instructor insurance will which requires IKO instructor qualification.
Heard of a couple of people teaching their mates something going wrong and their mates demanding compensation.

Go to a Pro. there's enough of us around.

Melville will be banned. After some great work done by WAKSA, puppetonastring and Greuzi etc. to try and get some safety rules going, alas with the massive traffic and sheer weight of crazies, the neighbours are mounting another campaign.

All these bouys etc dont work, I only have one suggestion but it will piss a lot of people off. WAKSA insured members only...... If WAKSA members continually disregard safety rules and are a clear and present danger to the public, complaints could be made and insurance cancelled....At the moment, how do you really stop 2 guys who think 20-25 knots and gusty is good for a 12m 04-05 C kite.

Again, dont blame euros, blame inexperienced "local" kiters who think they can teach their mates using incorrect teaching methods and poor kite selection.

you saw it happening once and let it happen a second time?
its not their safety you need to worry about, its your mates out there kiting and the general public. seeing what happened the first time should have given the signal to tell them they are being reckless and then ask them if they both have third party insurance, a contact number for you guys to call when they are lying unconscious by the trees or an up to date will.

if you dont want your spot to get banned you will unfortunately have to take on the role of kite Nazi, if there a big bloke do it while their attached to the kite, they cant do anything while getting pulled around.

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I only have one suggestion but it will piss a lot of people off. WAKSA insured members only......

tough call, but thats the state of affairs at Cott - and if it helps - might be worth it - all comes down to the kite police

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kitecrazzzy said...

you saw it happening once and let it happen a second time?
its not their safety you need to worry about, its your mates out there kiting and the general public. seeing what happened the first time should have given the signal to tell them they are being reckless and then ask them if they both have third party insurance, a contact number for you guys to call when they are lying unconscious by the trees or an up to date will.

if you dont want your spot to get banned you will unfortunately have to take on the role of kite Nazi, if there a big bloke do it while their attached to the kite, they cant do anything while getting pulled around.

It appeared that they had seen the error of their ways and after switching to a 5th line kite and flying it around for about 5 minutes it didn't look like anything bad was going to happen.



on another note, saw another peson at melville yesterday launch and do EXACTLY the same thing ( not a begginner either )

lunched, safety came undone as became unhooked , kite flew down beach and landed on sand , luckily sea breeze wasn't in yet and there was only about 10 kts of wind. All because he forgot to attatch his safety properly.

there's no rush people !!!!!!! If your gonna hook anything up correctly when you go kiting do yourself a favour and hook your safety leash up right....what's the bet some1 porks' it away again today?

Dave..... has the right idea
Melville should be WAKSA members only

I went for a walk with the family there the other day, reasonably windy, few people out however we couldnt walk on the beach for fear of being taken out and even walking on the path was a bit of a worry.

No one i saw was paying any heed to the buoys, turning, jumping and doing all sorts of tricks close inshore.

There is also the lack of car parking which would totally piss me off if i had just spent $millions on a place there.

Melville has always been managed well, these days IMO its a terrible accident waiting to happen which is my No 1 reason for not kiting there, despite living 5mins away.

Agreed with what everyone says.

Now the question is, do we approach Melville Council first and see about putting in the Cott. system? I would be all for it, no visible tag, no fly period. That would keep numbers down if it is properly policed by members and the Council.

Personally I would like to see a nation-wide requirement for AKSA membership and tag display. Raise the barrier to entry for the sake of safety and less crowding. Kites are like guns, and if in the hands of rogues things go bad, especially for others.

I think the problem is that people think the river is a good spot to teach people. In reality places like Coogee or South Fremantle are a lot better because of less people and a big wide open beach with little traffic. Also these beaches are sheltered from swell which makes other Perth beaches hard to learn on.

I agree with the AKSA tag thing, but having a tag doesn't mean your not going to be a nob, teach a mate and/or cause an accident there. I think that educating begginners and intermediates about more suitable learning beaches is a far better approach. The problem is in the misconception that the river is safe to learn on. It's gusty and if your near the shore there is not much room for error. Another problem is who is going to enforce the tag rule, do we really want to draw negative attention to ourselves?

The same thing for Woodies, after a lot of fuss from locals about kooks heading out on the offshore side, the crowds have gone down a bit and less people causing trouble. Once people know that it is not a good beach for their skill level then hopefully they will move.

Too some degree on the WAKSA site this is already done but a list of all the main perth beaches and the minimal skill level required to ride there.

Newbie- Just learning to fly the kite and body dragging.
Begginer- Starting on the board but not riding upwind
Competent- Able to ride upwind and self rescue.
Intermediate- Able to do a few basic tricks such as back rolls, front rolls etc.
Advanced- Able to do some more advanced manouveres for instance boards offs or unhooked tricks.

So for instance I would say to ride at Melvile you must at least be Competent.
Woodies you must at least be Intermediate.
South Freo and Coogee, Newbies and up.

If any of those people had an AKSA tag on them the accidents would still have happened. Being a member doen't give you super skills or any extra knowledge, I am a member of AKSA and I couldn't "forsee" or stop the events happening after they started.

All the kiters need ot do is take heed that ALL of the events were caused be:

"KITES FLYING DOWN THE BEACH AFTER THEIR SAFETY SYSTEMS CAME UNDONE"

If your safety system is a. attatched properly
b. you've used it regularly so you know it works
and c. Just check that your leash hasn't come off before unhooking

Then there will be no kites flying down meiville pde, no angry pedestrians or residents, just mobs of cyclists blocking the roads off every morning ( but thats' another story )

All valid points Chop and Space.

Space: People are going to go where they see kiting and where it is most convenient for them, that is "their local." Agreed that Melville has high risk near the shore but would have to say that it is excellent for many people just getting in to the sport. Me thinks stuff can go wrong at almost any level through bad luck and/or sheer stupidity.


Chop: I totally agree that there is a big problem with leashes and people not practicing or testing their gear........spot on, and correct about there being no correlation between AKSA membership and broken leashes. However, through ignorance, pure stupidity or freak acts of nature, you will have "rogue" events anywhere. Even if everyone on the River had the correct leash and practiced their releases, accidents will happen..........the point is to minimize them to zero.....we all want that!

Even though it may not have yet been proved that there is a correlation between AKSA membership and accidents, perhaps that needs to be answered...........I bet there is, and a big one at that. Why do we need to be able to read to get a driver's license? Think kiting is on par with diving on a risk basis. You need a license do dive....and here you will most likely only kill yourself.

There is a big positive to joining orgs. such as AKSA/WAKSA which look to protect you and keep location access open. By having to join you "buy in," and are identified. This process will make you more responsible and is AKSA/ WAKSA's big opportunity to pass on usefull safety information.

I also firmly believe that IKO needs to be tightened up as there are people "teaching" who haven't been on the water much, do not know the local conditions enough...and do not know the gear enough....enough...enough...it is tooooooooooo friggen hot. But not hot enough.

The all those people just getting in to the sport, your best value is spent on getting lessons from a local who has loads of teaching experience; and sadly there are only a couple handful in Perth. Gear is cheap these days and people who spend time and money LEARNING will have done the best investment into the sport for themselves and the future of the sport.

I probably spend more time on the water than almost anyone in Perth and do not teach or plan to for now. Taught myself, one family member, and got a mate out on the water but no more. Good instruction it is not that easy and takes time.

When playing the kiting game of 'save-your-local'.....
it's not always wise to use your trump-cards up too soon.
Kiters would be better off remaining poker-faced and to bluff as long as they can.
lol.

When the bluff no longer works,
when you are forced to play it out,
lay it all on the table so to speak....
it's smarter to hold onto those couple of aces right to the end.

Compulsory AKSA membership for all riders is the ace of clubs.
The silly tag hanging off your harness is your betting chip.
Compulsory kite licence for all riders is the ace of diamonds......
CHA-CHING for AKSA and all their cronies and examiners.
Nice.

Don't waste your cards,
the odds were against you from the start.

Respect, you may be right Slave.........I'm just a big chickenscheit and see this freight train coming........it is a beurocratic disease coming from all over the place....happens with crowding, I hate it too.....move I guess, but I don't want too and will remain positive ....but bluff some more, don't know, doesn't seem right.

Have a good week.

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gruezi said...

All valid points Chop and Space.




Even though it may not have yet been proved that there is a correlation between AKSA membership and accidents, perhaps that needs to be answered...........I bet there is, and a big one at that. Why do we need to be able to read to get a driver's license? Think kiting is on par with diving on a risk basis. You need a license do dive....and here you will most likely only kill yourself.

But to get a drivers licence you need to have done 6 months of lessons, have x many hours, passed a written test and passed a drivers licence , and then you would expect some level of performance if you can do all that stuff. At the moment if i told the Newby that he needed WAKSA membership, I have no doubt he would either log on or go to a shop, pay his $$ and be back down there in ten minutes none the wiser.... The organisation isn't government funded or profit run so we shouldn't expect it to ever be able to enforce rules like a kiters licence, and it sounds silly.... I mean as far as it goes i don't think there has been any serious accidents in melville yet, I'm just trying to stop people from being careless.. like driving down the road without and brakes

Hey Dachopper,

With the growing number of people getting into the sport and coming down to the beaches to learn with friends (this is the greatest area of the sports expansion now) there will be an increased amount of people unqualified teaching friends in busier locations. Because you can stand a long way out, people like the idea of shallow water and choose to learn at Melville.

I think the license is inevitable, it is only a matter of time. The original hang gliders and divers also never had to worry about licenses and gun licenses back in the day were pieces of paper you could get from the cop shop in about 10 minutes provided you hadn't a criminal record for previous armed holdup.

It is not AKSA's duty to enforce this sort of thing, but it is AKSA's duty to start putting in place planning and infrastructure to implement the license when it finally arrives, to start looking into the relevent authorities, to contact the HGFA and see how they did it and start planning for the inevitable. It was self regulation to keep access to their fave locations. It's simple, you carry a license with you to buy or sell equipment from shops, or produce a license to rangers or police if requested. Simply being an AKSA member does nothing to eliminate the problem, it only covers ones @rse if things go wrong.

It will be forced on us by blanket bans from councils after a high profile 3rd party death. I am all for self regulating the sport and not inviting "the man" to gt involved, but I am also a realist. I am sure the hang gliders and shooters, PADI and pilots remember a day when they too never had a license to worry about. The good old days! I feel they are all but numbered. The death in Spain is just another reminder, luckily it was a kiter and not a member of the public.

Good winds,

Its an awful thing to say but............

A horror accident is what is needed in the Metro in order to put people off and/or get the local council authoroties worked up.

From watching people at Melville and hearing tales such as these it aint far off.

its lucky melville is such a good location, no obstacles downwind, nothing to impale yourself on and so many intermediate + riders there i seriously doubt a serious accident will occur...... they usually involve onshore winds or rock groins

HAY all, no mater were you live in AUSTRALIA people will always take short cuts when it comes to teaching. There is a shop in my area that teaches with no council permits,no insurence, no instructers ticket, there doing a lesson wright now in dead onshore wind, with a concreat retaining wall only 10mtrs down wind,and pine trees 20mtrs down wind, this shop has been around since the start off kiteboarding on the GOLD COAST. They have the aditude they can do what thay want,when they want. they take good money off the general public, and give them WHAT !.How thay get away with it is, thay sell equipment and give a lesson for free. IF the council comes down and speeks to them thay say there teaching there friend.Now all off you might think im just haven a bitch, but what happenens when someone gets hert. And how does that effect the schools and shops that are doing the right thing. Id love to name this shop but laurie will delete my post. But i now the twit that runs this shop lives on this forum, and im shore he will just sit in the background and tell himself what ever he wants to make himself beleive hes doing the wright thing. Thanks to whats going on in the AKSA at the moment,people that run cowboy opperations will be exposed through there local law and goverment regulations. Whats disapointing is that the so called leaders should be setting an example and trying always to improve and set new bench marks in the industry. THE OLD DAYS ARE GONE KITESURFING COUCHING IS AN IMPORTANT PART OFF OUR FUTURE, and should be left up to the to APROVED INSTRUCTERS AND SCHOOLS. This is an on GOING problem and I DONT CARE ADITUDES, ARE ON BORROWED TIME. ENJOY TWIT you know who you are. THANKS MARK TEE