Hi Folks
Has anyone had any experience with replacing lines with something like these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Maelstorm-4-X-24M-1000lb-453kg-Powerkite-Kitesurfing-Kite-Line-Surf-water-Sports-/181318261012?hash=item2a37691914:g:qj4AAOSwstxVf3Wm

I am chasing a new set of lines for an Airrush Smartbar from a Lithium 14 2014

Any contacts or suggestions please?

Cheers S

I haven't. Not saying its a bad idea but always keep in mind when buying out of China. "is my life worth the 60-70 dollars saved?"

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Adam'KiteRepair said..
I haven't. Not saying its a bad idea but always keep in mind when buying out of China. "is my life worth the 60-70 dollars saved?"

are lines bought from an aussie retailer/kite shop not made in china? genuine question.

I'm with KiteFlo on this one. To my knowledge, the majority of kite lines (if not all kite lines ? ) are made in China. There is a good chance that those Ebay lines are the exact same ones that other kite manufacturers use. They look suspiciously similar to Ozone lines but that could be a coincidence.

Simon, Keep in mind that not all kite lines are the same length on every bar. Sometimes front lines are shorter than the back, if that's the case you'll need to have the front lines cut and professionally spliced, which will add to the cost...

Christian

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Adam'KiteRepair said..
I haven't. Not saying its a bad idea but always keep in mind when buying out of China. "is my life worth the 60-70 dollars saved?"

As a repairer myself and yourself, where do you think all our valves, bladders and other kite materials are made from? Perth!?

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kiteflo said..

Adam'KiteRepair said..
I haven't. Not saying its a bad idea but always keep in mind when buying out of China. "is my life worth the 60-70 dollars saved?"

are lines bought from an aussie retailer/kite shop not made in china? genuine question.

great queation mate, and yes in alot of circumstances, lines sold in Australia by kite shops are made in China. So are alot of Kites. I use German made lines myself. If not Genuine Ozone when I can. NOT all Chinese made products are bad, and not all are good. Hopefully though, your local shop has not just chosen the cheaper amd Have researched their supply line for the best quality lines available. Thats why I specifically said that I dont know if these particular lines are good, but to take into account that they may not be. Just like any industry, sometimes people choose the cheaper option with bad results.

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NorthernKitesAUS said..

Adam'KiteRepair said..
I haven't. Not saying its a bad idea but always keep in mind when buying out of China. "is my life worth the 60-70 dollars saved?"

As a repairer myself and yourself, where do you think all our valves, bladders and other kite materials are made from? Perth!?

Most of my supply is Made In America something I have always been proud of. I am an Ex-pat after all.

I've had a bit of a look around the web and there don't seem to be any negative reports and there is actually a Maelstorm store:

www.maelstormgear.com/

Also 139 units sold on eaby and a 97.8% rating. Might be worth the risk.
It's not that I just want to buy the cheapest lines I can, but the local distributor has no lines in stock and a month lead time!

I make my own lines from dyneema made in Australia. Been happy with them so far and about half the price of a genuine set.

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strydz said..
I make my own lines from dyneema made in Australia. Been happy with them so far and about half the price of a genuine set.

Dyneema is just a brand name for an "Ultra High Molecular weight Polyethylene" (UHMwPE) fibre.
Other (UHMwPE) include Dynex and Spectra that are essentially the same thing.
Dyneema is manufactured by DSM Dyneema Greenville, North Carolina, USA.
I doubt the stuff you use is manufactured in Australia because of the patent licencing that would give DSM the sole right to exclude others from making, using, or selling something with the same name. Unless the patent has run out its life.

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strydz said..
I make my own lines from dyneema made in Australia. Been happy with them so far and about half the price of a genuine set.

Any chance of some details on where and how please? :-)

Just looking at that ebay listing, all the words and specifications and images are correct and reasonable. The breaking strength is consistent with other lines of the same material from a couple of manufacturers, and certainly not exaggerated.

The price is cheap, but not much cheaper than other low price sources. Switchkites sell lines about the same price but you need to add extensions and postage to get up to a similar product.

The only dodgy thing is the misspelling of "Maelstrom", but they do that for all their kite products.

If I was in need of a new set of lines I would probably buy them or the similar lines from Switch. You can easily check the length of the lines when you get them and get a refund if there is a problem.

You can make your own lines and splicing is very easy to do. Getting all 4 lines made and to the same length is a little challenging. You need some weights to tension them and a little practice and a little luck. It's often easier to compensate in the length of the pig tails.

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cbulota said..
I'm with KiteFlo on this one. To my knowledge, the majority of kite lines (if not all kite lines ? ) are made in China. There is a good chance that those Ebay lines are the exact same ones that other kite manufacturers use. They look suspiciously similar to Ozone lines but that could be a coincidence.

Simon, Keep in mind that not all kite lines are the same length on every bar. Sometimes front lines are shorter than the back, if that's the case you'll need to have the front lines cut and professionally spliced, which will add to the cost...

Christian

They very well could be Ozone lines? Would not be the first time something being sold on eBay has used substituted photo's of a genuine or higher quality product, meanwhile delivering something "similar".

I can tell you that they are not Ozone lines though, even though they look like them, Ozone do not use coloured dyneema rope on the steering line ends.
When I visited the Ozone factory in November last year, I saw inventory control system, where everything they use in their factories is first checked for quality. The line they use for flying lines and bridles is made in Europe from a couple of suppliers based in France or Germany.
Good quality line is being made in China, many brands use it, but Ozone don't.

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Gorgo said..
Just looking at that ebay listing, all the words and specifications and images are correct and reasonable. The breaking strength is consistent with other lines of the same material from a couple of manufacturers, and certainly not exaggerated.

The price is cheap, but not much cheaper than other low price sources. Switchkites sell lines about the same price but you need to add extensions and postage to get up to a similar product.

The only dodgy thing is the misspelling of "Maelstrom", but they do that for all their kite products.

If I was in need of a new set of lines I would probably buy them or the similar lines from Switch. You can easily check the length of the lines when you get them and get a refund if there is a problem.

You can make your own lines and splicing is very easy to do. Getting all 4 lines made and to the same length is a little challenging. You need some weights to tension them and a little practice and a little luck. It's often easier to compensate in the length of the pig tails.

Considering that I have all the pig-tails etc from the old lines (I cut the lines in a kitemare, but that's another story ;-)), All I need are the lines with the loop splices on the ends. It cant be that hard to splice a line?

And I have a lot of bits to practice on :-)

Splicing is very easy. You just want to do a simple finger trap or eye splice. A guitar string or bent piece of wire makes a great fid.

You will need to sew the splice to lock it into place. That's easy enough to do on a domestic sewing machine or you can hand sew it if you want.



The D splicer tools and scissors are great for splicing and cutting Dyneema/Spectra.

I'm not a fan of Brummel splices. They're a bit complicated and make the length adjustment a pain.



I tend to make one line then make the others to match. For the matching ones I splice a loop on one end, then line up the two and match them. With an eye splice you can move the loop in and out to exactly match the length then lock it into place. I put in a safety pin as insurance then take it and sew it.

You need to put 5-10 kg of weight on the end of each line to get accurate lengths.

The complexity comes from having space to run out 20-25m of line and loading them equally. Adjusting the loop size in place seems to work ok. Marking then sewing is less accurate.

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Gorgo said..
Splicing is very easy. You just want to do a simple finger trap or eye splice. A guitar string or bent piece of wire makes a great fid.

You will need to sew the splice to lock it into place. That's easy enough to do on a domestic sewing machine or you can hand sew it if you want.

The D splicer tools and scissors are great for splicing and cutting Dyneema/Spectra.

I'm not a fan of Brummel splices. They're a bit complicated and make the length adjustment a pain.

I tend to make one line then make the others to match. For the matching ones I splice a loop on one end, then line up the two and match them. With an eye splice you can move the loop in and out to exactly match the length then lock it into place. I put in a safety pin as insurance then take it and sew it.

You need to put 5-10 kg of weight on the end of each line to get accurate lengths.

The complexity comes from having space to run out 20-25m of line and loading them equally. Adjusting the loop size in place seems to work ok. Marking then sewing is less accurate.

Thanks, that look doable, now I just have to source some line. Any suggestions?

I have plenty of room to run the lines out. I can make one complete line and three lines with a loop on one end then hang them in the stairwell at work with a weight and mark them that way? :-)

Or it gets even cheaper :-) http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Arrival-700lbs-KITEBOARDING-KITESURFING-Control-Bar-line-4x25m-kite-line/302219919711?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41451%26meid%3D385228be1cfd4199a5bf9d24ef3d232d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291561509042

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FlyByKite said..

strydz said..
I make my own lines from dyneema made in Australia. Been happy with them so far and about half the price of a genuine set.

Dyneema is just a brand name for an "Ultra High Molecular weight Polyethylene" (UHMwPE) fibre.
Other (UHMwPE) include Dynex and Spectra that are essentially the same thing.
Dyneema is manufactured by DSM Dyneema Greenville, North Carolina, USA.
I doubt the stuff you use is manufactured in Australia because of the patent licencing that would give DSM the sole right to exclude others from making, using, or selling something with the same name. Unless the patent has run out its life.

The line I use is most defiantly made in Australia. It's made on the gold cost by international rope braid, who make all types of high end braid for sailing. The line I use is an SK 99 fiber that he imports then makes into line. Most kite lines are an SK 75 fiber which are more prone to creep. Deckhardware in Sydney also sells the liros DC range of kite line by the roll too.

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strydz said..

FlyByKite said..

strydz said..
I make my own lines from dyneema made in Australia. Been happy with them so far and about half the price of a genuine set.

Dyneema is just a brand name for an "Ultra High Molecular weight Polyethylene" (UHMwPE) fibre.
Other (UHMwPE) include Dynex and Spectra that are essentially the same thing.
Dyneema is manufactured by DSM Dyneema Greenville, North Carolina, USA.
I doubt the stuff you use is manufactured in Australia because of the patent licencing that would give DSM the sole right to exclude others from making, using, or selling something with the same name. Unless the patent has run out its life.

The line I use is most defiantly made in Australia. It's made on the gold cost by international rope braid, who make all types of high end braid for sailing. The line I use is an SK 99 fiber that he imports then makes into line. Most kite lines are an SK 75 fiber which are more prone to creep. Deckhardware in Sydney also sells the liros DC range of kite line by the roll too.

If it's made in Australia it is not Dyneema - Did you read my post.
They might buy dyneema and add it to other fibres to create their own type of line.
But unless the patent time on dyneema has run out - they are buying the dyneema not manufacturing it.
SK99 dyneema has been around for 3 or 4 years. So I would think most kitelines are using it.

You can buy stuff called "winch line" from here ropegalore.com.au/o-1mm-o-1-5mm-o-2mm-donaghys-winchline/ I have used the 4mm for pigtails and chicken loop lines and stuff

or this guy will sell raw line or made up lines for you www.customkitelines.com/

I bought a set of made up lines and a pile of plain for making up lines.

I've gone away from making up line sets. I used to ride with one bar per kite and made up new lines for the most used ones. Now I have one bar I use across all kites and just buy a new one every year or two.

It got too expensive and too much work making up all the bits and pieces. You replace the lines but then the depower line shows wear, then the trimmer looks a bit dodgy, then the packing bungies perish, then the bar grip starts to fail. Buying genuine kite parts is expensive. Buying bits and pieces and getting creative is also expensive and time consuming.

Awesome videos there Gordo. Thanks
So how would one go about making line connectors at the end of the lines that you larks-knot to the bridles on the kite? They look like just a fold sewen together.

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NorthernKitesAUS said..
Awesome videos there Gordo. Thanks
So how would one go about making line connectors at the end of the lines that you larks-knot to the bridles on the kite? They look like just a fold sewen together.

those are sleeved ends mate. you would need to get some sleeving, feed it over the line fold over and sew with debond Poly thread. you can buy sleeving kits from some kite shops.

The connectors are simply bits of Dyneema looped, tied, sewed whatever you need to do. 3-4mm is fine for that. I use 4mm for most bits and pieces.

Sleeving doesn't work so well on spliced lines. You have to sew it to stop it bunching up. It works fine for normal sewn line ends, but that is a bit more difficult skill to acquire.

For sleeving the easiest thing is to buy some sheathed cord and pull the sheathing off and use that. I have experimented with using line for sleeving and using the splice technique to put it on the outside of the loop. It doesn't stay very neat.

You can insert a length inside the loop (called double splicing). That increases the diameter a little, but it doesn't add any strength to the line.

Really, I don't think there's much need to sleeve loops if they're going around a pig tail. The pig tail is soft and the diameter is relatively wide.