I am not sure how many of us on this forum started kite boarding on two liners, with no depower and no QR? A lot happened since (for us who survived ). After the introduction of varius QR systems, we still have heard about serious accidents. So What is the problem with QR? Nothing. The problem is that in an emergency situation we rely on reflexes, (like stepping on the break of a car) instead of reasoning. There is no chance for QR becoming a reflex, since we use it so rarely (if at all), so in an emergency we may or may not remember...... furthermore, each brand uses different systems........therefore we cannot rely on QR alone for safety.
On the other hand, the (full 80-90%) depower of modern kites becomes a refex as we use it all the time, and in an emergency it is as easy as letting the bar go. It is unlikely that a fully depowered modern kite would loft or drag someone into hard objects. In fact unhooked riders already rely entirely on the depower for safety.
So while I see QR absolutely necessary, I believe the #1 priority is a well working depower system. Especially for beginners, buying an old kite with limited depower is leaving the door open for a possible disaster....

You still need to make going for the QR a natural reflex by going for it with your eyes closed every time you ride just to practice (not actually pulling it). The people who get seriously injured or hurt often happens when lines are twisted, board caught in lines etc where the depower doesn't work.

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Andrash said...


So while I see QR absolutely necessary, I believe the #1 priority is a well working depower system.

You will find that people already do this and the safety is quite satisfactory. People use the QR when this fails. There are many different situations where the depower doesn't work, i.e a line tangle after a crash, the kite goes in a death loop and even though you let go of the bar it still is powered up and looping. I think depower isn't the 1# priority because it is already good enough, if you are using the depower then it isn't an emergency.

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dustin said...

You will find that people already do this and the safety is quite satisfactory.

Most kites pre 2006, and many later 5 liners I've seen have still limited depower range.

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dustin said...

There are many different situations where the depower doesn't work, i.e a line tangle after a crash, the kite goes in a death loop and even though you let go of the bar it still is powered up and looping.

In these situations usually QR would not be enough, you need to totally disengage from the kite. (e.g. release from the safety leash)

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dustin said...
if you are using the depower then it isn't an emergency.

...I use the break on my car, and it is still an emergency...

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sunseeker said...

You still need to make going for the QR a natural reflex by going for it with your eyes closed every time you ride just to practice (not actually pulling it). The people who get seriously injured or hurt often happens when lines are twisted, board caught in lines etc where the depower doesn't work.

Many serious accidents have happened due to lofting, when there is no problems with the lines. It happens very quickly, so the response needs to be automatic...like letting the bar go, or pushing it away....just practicing to reach to the QR without using it, will not necessarily make it a reflex.....it is like keep pressing the break on a parking car....

Don't forget the 'death grip'. I have seen novices paralysed with fear, or whatever it is, and not release the bar leaving the kite fully powered. Depower won't help then. Nor will QR for that matter...

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GreenPat said...

Don't forget the 'death grip'.

...not sure what you mean..?...death loop may be?

'Death Grip' on the bar

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TheChad said...

'Death Grip' on the bar

.....thanks...I thought of something technical, rather than psychological...

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GreenPat said...

Don't forget the 'death grip'. I have seen novices paralysed with fear, or whatever it is, and not release the bar leaving the kite fully powered. Depower won't help then. Nor will QR for that matter...

..what will?...open for suggestions

I see what you're getting at now, I was taking the letting the bar go as an obvious given. Nothing will stop the instinct of trying to hold on when in trouble for some people.

Maybe more drumming in when having lessons and practicing letting the bar go then heaps of practicing pulling the QR when powered.

I launched with tangled lines once on a 14m in wind that was a bit too strong for the kite. The kite was fully powered up even though I had let the bar go. I managed to pull the QR before the kite had even done half a loop and probably saved me from being pulled through a fence. Have your mind ready to hit the QR when launching.

It's not either/or depower or QR, it's both.

I think people should have their QR on their harness rather than their kite, as all kites have different QR's. You change your kites more than your harness and this way you are more likely to get used to it.

The first brand to make a cheap, reliable swiveling spreader bar with QR built in, for less than a million dollars each, will sell heaps!

Umm... Slingshot Surefire?
Been around for a while now.

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Andrash said...

I am not sure how many of us on this forum started kite boarding on two liners, with no depower and no QR? A lot happened since (for us who survived ). After the introduction of varius QR systems, we still have heard about serious accidents. So What is the problem with QR? Nothing. The problem is that in an emergency situation we rely on reflexes, (like stepping on the break of a car) instead of reasoning. There is no chance for QR becoming a reflex, since we use it so rarely (if at all), so in an emergency we may or may not remember...... furthermore, each brand uses different systems........therefore we cannot rely on QR alone for safety.
On the other hand, the (full 80-90%) depower of modern kites becomes a refex as we use it all the time, and in an emergency it is as easy as letting the bar go. It is unlikely that a fully depowered modern kite would loft or drag someone into hard objects. In fact unhooked riders already rely entirely on the depower for safety.
So while I see QR absolutely necessary, I believe the #1 priority is a well working depower system. Especially for beginners, buying an old kite with limited depower is leaving the door open for a possible disaster....

I am sorry but I have to disagree. There are so many other variables in there that make pushing the bar out obsolete. The number one priority is learning the reflex. Here is a quote from my response to the umina accident topic.

"I cannot stress the importance of knowing your safety systems. I am not going to speculate on this poor blokes accident, but I am saying how important it is to know where your safety release is.

As an example, two weeks ago we had a solid 25 knots blowing. I was on an 11m and as I landed a gust hit the kite, sending it into a death spiral. I was standing in front of rocks and in less then a second I hit my release sending the kite down the beach. A mate with me couldnt believe the speed I pulled it. This release is your lifeline. If I was half a second slower I would have been dragged along the rocks and then not physically able to pull on it.


YOUR KITE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS YOUR LIFE.

As SOON as you see things going bad, dont hesitate, just throw the release.

This needs to be a reflex. To make something a reflex it needs to be repeated hundreds of times. PRACTICE RELEASING YOUR KITE EVERYTIME YOU GO OUT.

This doesnt mean hitting the release, it means teaching your hand to go to it. Not hard to practice, kind of like practicing putting your hand to your hip like it was a gun. I can comfortably say this is now a reflex to me.

Be safe.

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echostorm said...


I am sorry but I have to disagree. There are so many other variables in there that make pushing the bar out obsolete. The number one priority is learning the reflex. Here is a quote from my response to the umina accident topic.

"I cannot stress the importance of knowing your safety systems. I am not going to speculate on this poor blokes accident, but I am saying how important it is to know where your safety release is.

As an example, two weeks ago we had a solid 25 knots blowing. I was on an 11m and as I landed a gust hit the kite, sending it into a death spiral. I was standing in front of rocks and in less then a second I hit my release sending the kite down the beach. A mate with me couldnt believe the speed I pulled it. This release is your lifeline. If I was half a second slower I would have been dragged along the rocks and then not physically able to pull on it.


YOUR KITE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS YOUR LIFE.

As SOON as you see things going bad, dont hesitate, just throw the release.

This needs to be a reflex. To make something a reflex it needs to be repeated hundreds of times. PRACTICE RELEASING YOUR KITE EVERYTIME YOU GO OUT.

This doesnt mean hitting the release, it means teaching your hand to go to it. Not hard to practice, kind of like practicing putting your hand to your hip like it was a gun. I can comfortably say this is now a reflex to me.

Be safe.

Hi Echostorm, you sound like having great reflexes and can stay cool in tough situations. I wish all of us have your qualities. But, it sounds like you need them, if you kite close upwind to rocks in gusty winds.
Not sure, what exactly you are disagreeing with......of course QR is important....and of course we all want / need to be safe.
Reflex is an automatic response to a situation. The problem with QR is that (as recent and past accidents show) it may not become an automatic response / reflex. Reaching out to the quick release frequently without a reason (as a practice, you suggest) will not necessarily make it a reflex in a tough situation, because the situation that triggers it is missing from the practice......it is like learning to press on the break on a parking car, or learning boxing on a punching bag....it will help, but it wont create an automatic / reflex response. This is the point where a well working depower will be useful. In the situation, that you described: if your kite had a 80-90% depower, why not just push the bar out when the gust hits, and you are safe...but if it didn't have a lot of depower, then of course you rely on the QR alone.
A good depower on a kite is similar to a good break on a car.

Depower is like taking your foot off the accelerator - it will slow you down.

But if the accelerator gets stuck - you need to instinctively know where the brake is - that's where the QR comes in.

The death grip is a real factor. A mate came down the beach the other day and thought it was ok to teach his mate on a C kite in 20kts. WTF!! i said. So I drove home and got them my small 3m foily. Even after explaining when landing or in an emergancy that all you have to do is let go,it'll pull on one line and land, the dude was paralised with fear and wouldn't let go.LET GO, LET GO, LET GO, LET GO!!!!.

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sunseeker said...

Depower is like taking your foot off the accelerator - it will slow you down.

But if the accelerator gets stuck - you need to instinctively know where the brake is - that's where the QR comes in.

...full depower with an edge will likely to stop you instantly, but even without a hard edge it wont let you "roll" far on a twinny...
...and, yes, if the depower fails, you reach for the QR....and if it's still not enough (entangled lines, waves), pull the QR of the leash...not nice

isn't that what you use?

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kiter789 said...

It's not either/or depower or QR, it's both.

I think people should have their QR on their harness rather than their kite, as all kites have different QR's. You change your kites more than your harness and this way you are more likely to get used to it.

The first brand to make a cheap, reliable swiveling spreader bar with QR built in, for less than a million dollars each, will sell heaps!

I would have thought steering clear of a pile of rocks would be good insurance against gettin smashed

Obstacles such as these also tend to distract pilots from the flying task at hand .I remeber a good tip when I was in hang gliding .Don't look at the stump in the middle of the paddockthat you are going to land in ,you'll hit it for sure ..


Sure enough one day when coming into land in a paddock with one tree in it I was so focused on avoiding the tree I didn't notice that the wind had changed and hit the tree (well a few leaves anyway ) a close call and could have been worse

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echostorm said...

Andrash said...

I am not sure how many of us on this forum started kite boarding on two liners, with no depower and no QR? A lot happened since (for us who survived ). After the introduction of varius QR systems, we still have heard about serious accidents. So What is the problem with QR? Nothing. The problem is that in an emergency situation we rely on reflexes, (like stepping on the break of a car) instead of reasoning. There is no chance for QR becoming a reflex, since we use it so rarely (if at all), so in an emergency we may or may not remember...... furthermore, each brand uses different systems........therefore we cannot rely on QR alone for safety.
On the other hand, the (full 80-90%) depower of modern kites becomes a refex as we use it all the time, and in an emergency it is as easy as letting the bar go. It is unlikely that a fully depowered modern kite would loft or drag someone into hard objects. In fact unhooked riders already rely entirely on the depower for safety.
So while I see QR absolutely necessary, I believe the #1 priority is a well working depower system. Especially for beginners, buying an old kite with limited depower is leaving the door open for a possible disaster....

I am sorry but I have to disagree. There are so many other variables in there that make pushing the bar out obsolete. The number one priority is learning the reflex. Here is a quote from my response to the umina accident topic.

"I cannot stress the importance of knowing your safety systems. I am not going to speculate on this poor blokes accident, but I am saying how important it is to know where your safety release is.

As an example, two weeks ago we had a solid 25 knots blowing. I was on an 11m and as I landed a gust hit the kite, sending it into a death spiral. I was standing in front of rocks and in less then a second I hit my release sending the kite down the beach. A mate with me couldnt believe the speed I pulled it. This release is your lifeline. If I was half a second slower I would have been dragged along the rocks and then not physically able to pull on it.


YOUR KITE IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS YOUR LIFE.

As SOON as you see things going bad, dont hesitate, just throw the release.

This needs to be a reflex. To make something a reflex it needs to be repeated hundreds of times. PRACTICE RELEASING YOUR KITE EVERYTIME YOU GO OUT.

This doesnt mean hitting the release, it means teaching your hand to go to it. Not hard to practice, kind of like practicing putting your hand to your hip like it was a gun. I can comfortably say this is now a reflex to me.

Be safe.

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pfr said...

The death grip is a real factor. A mate came down the beach the other day and thought it was ok to teach his mate on a C kite in 20kts. WTF!! i said. So I drove home and got them my small 3m foily. Even after explaining when landing or in an emergancy that all you have to do is let go,it'll pull on one line and land, the dude was paralised with fear and wouldn't let go.LET GO, LET GO, LET GO, LET GO!!!!.

.....I believe, that the popularity of kite boarding is going out of proportion.....
It is...like riding a 1200cc bike...not for everyone....and no matter what is the safety system on a kite, kite boarding is still an EXTREME sport...

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Mr float said...

I would have thought steering clear of a pile of rocks would be good insurance against gettin smashed

Obstacles such as these also tend to distract pilots from the flying task at hand .I remeber a good tip when I was in hang gliding .Don't look at the stump in the middle of the paddockthat you are going to land in ,you'll hit it for sure ..


Sure enough one day when coming into land in a paddock with one tree in it I was so focused on avoiding the tree I didn't notice that the wind had changed and hit the tree (well a few leaves anyway ) a close call and could have been worse

Great point...I heard that lots of car accidents happen at lonely trees on long country roads...
.....I find kiting close upwind to anything solid is just too stressful, and take much of the fun of it......

you are so onto it . more time should be given in kitesurfing lesson on QR drills

you have to practice countless times before your safe.

3 lessons for kitessurfing lesson only teaches you how to kill yourself. I tell my students 3 months of practice before your able to be safe on an inflatable.

There are going to be some major incidents at Cronulla this year, all because of the way the sport is taught. It's so unsafe!!! we have a duty of care and I don't think we are supplying that to the newbees.

what do I know only been teaching for 10 years

My near death experience on a so called fully depower sle kite.

I have been kiting for a few years now and one time when setting up my last kite a 7M best waroo, I accadently connected up the lines wrong in my haste to get out on the water. I was given an assisted launch and both of us did not notice that on one side I had the steering and depower lines reversed.
I launched, and the kite whent into a fully powered up death loop dragging me. I pulled the quick release which sent the bar down the lines out of reach still fully powered doing death loops. After being dragged by the safety leash for 100 meters or so with people running and trying to jump on me. The kite finally hit the ground and with the help of the people around at the time was able to get me sorted. After that near death experience, I double check my lines and now have a quick release on my safety leash as well.

Set it up right and keep it low when you are over powered. You can't get lofted when you kite is 1m above the ground. Learn to edge and hold a rail when your kite is low before you ride near other people or hard objects.

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undone said...

After being dragged by the safety leash for 100 meters or so

"safety" leashes are not safe. If you are going to us one I recommend hooking it to your chicken loop, so when you release your kite, it lets go too. Having to find 2 things as opposed to 1 in an emergency is just a recipe for disaster.

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echostorm said...

undone said...

After being dragged by the safety leash for 100 meters or so

"safety" leashes are not safe. If you are going to us one I recommend hooking it to your chicken loop, so when you release your kite, it lets go too. Having to find 2 things as opposed to 1 in an emergency is just a recipe for disaster.

Echo is that good advice given the previous advice re practice pulling your QR ? It seems to me that if I connected my safety to my chicken loop I'd be more reluctant to pull the QR as it means a lost and loose kite. As it is I am willing to pull the QR in the surf or landing sometimes on the shore as I know it's not going to be a total disaster (= loose kite going god knows where - houses cars people). So this practice feeds the emergency response reflex.

What is vital is having a quick release on your safety leash to avoid the situation that Undone describes.

Is there something I am not understanding here?

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echostorm said...

"safety" leashes are not safe. If you are going to us one I recommend hooking it to your chicken loop

...so that when you release the QR your kite can fly freely and become a potential disaster to anyone downwind from you....
..great advice

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Andrash said...

echostorm said...

"safety" leashes are not safe. If you are going to us one I recommend hooking it to your chicken loop

...so that when you release the QR your kite can fly freely and become a potential disaster to anyone downwind from you....
..great advice

Most death-leashes now have a quick release device....
So that means that the INDUSTRY has intentionally designed-in the capability for kites to be runaways.
The INDUSTRY believes a runaway kite is far better than a kiter being dragged along for hundreds of metres.
The death-leash concept in kitesurfing is a freakin mess.
I've never used one.

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Andrash said...

echostorm said...

"safety" leashes are not safe. If you are going to us one I recommend hooking it to your chicken loop

...so that when you release the QR your kite can fly freely and become a potential disaster to anyone downwind from you....
..great advice

You obviously dont kite in the surf.

Sorry Slave and Echo, I still don't get it. Maybe I'm a bit slow. Can you please explain?

You are saying I should remove my kite leash as I kite in the surf. (It performs no function if connected to the CL, so why have a leash).

If I drop my kite in waves and can't relaunch I first pull the the QR. What do you advocate I do - first response is to let the kite go?

Please explain ?