Opening can of worms- What categories now exist within kiting and what are the defining characteristics of each one.....

Wakestyle, kite low and powered fast moves

Freestyle, spins and loops

Is strapped and strapless surfing a separate sport ?

Unhooking vs hooked ?

speed, going fast in gale winds.

board offs would fit into freestyle,

wave riding in 6ft plus without straps would be true kitesurfing and pure skill.

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airush geoff said...

Opening can of worms- What categories now exist within kiting and what are the defining characteristics of each one.....

Wakestyle, kite low and powered fast moves

Freestyle, spins and loops

Is strapped and strapless surfing a separate sport ?

Unhooking vs hooked ?

Unhooking is mostly considered wakestyle but there are some purists that would argue true wakestyle is unhooked with boots and the kite low.

So what if you Unhook on a wave? its wakestyle?? lol.

God forbid you would ride a twinny in the waves and suffer an identity crisis.

My mate and I were having a conversation about the upcoming state wave titles in south aus and how to judge between a rider hitting it unstrapped vs strapped and decided it is almost another sport surfing the wave strapless......

So the conversation went down the road of what events are currently offered - a state freestyle title and a state wave title. Both are hard to judge because of the variety in styles... trying to understand what styles or riding types have evolved and what other peoples opinions of the categories are....

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hydra said...

board offs would fit into freestyle,

Have to disagree with James on this one. Board offs = Old School, not freestyle in my opinion. Maybe this is just the contention that Geoff is referring to though. Too many variants/opinions to be able to define each style.

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fozzy said...

hydra said...

board offs would fit into freestyle,

Have to disagree with James on this one. Board offs = Old School, not freestyle in my opinion. Maybe this is just the contention that Geoff is referring to though. Too many variants/opinions to be able to define each style.

yep i agree actually, good ol oldschool.

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sir ROWDY said...

So what if you Unhook on a wave? its wakestyle?? lol.

good point does it make a difference if you're wearing bindings on your surfboard?

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airush geoff said...

My mate and I were having a conversation about the upcoming state wave titles in south aus and how to judge between a rider hitting it unstrapped vs strapped and decided it is almost another sport surfing the wave strapless......

The same can be said for Bindings vs Straps.
I agree unstrapped vs strapped - Straps vs Bindings , nearly different sports and both excel in a different variety of conditions, which makes it even harder to run a comp where they are run as one.......

it's been a while geoff, but do YOU really need to start a thread with "opening a can of worms here"

quite a few valid points here, none of which i personally give a **** about.

long live old school free ride! even if i suck at it.

good luck with the comps

My two cents worth,
With comps it's really quite easy. Set the boundaries and set the expectations within which to judge.


Wave Comp - Total waves judged in a heat= 6
Of which 3 must be unhooked and 3 Strapless
(depending on time and conditions of course)

Freestyle - Total trick range in a heat must include as a minimum:
Kite loop
handle pass
Board off
(or KGB, Slim Chance, Deadman, whatever really)

Set the expectation - set a standard. I mean you want the best don't you?. So wouldn't you expect the best to be able to do all to a basic degree?. Of course every rider would like to score higher in areas that they tend to be a specialist at and you can allow scope within scoring systems to enable that.

Stapless is different to strapped riding. Hooked in is different to unhooked in surf. As is freestyle hooked in and unhooked.

Pretty hard to do a board off unhooked for example.

But no less difficult than some unhooked handlepass tricks.

Pretty hard to ride unhooked and strapless in waves when it's 30knots too, in fact a bit daft to be honest. Especially when you can be strapped and hooked and just having a ball.

But in competition - My expectation is that the best can demonstrate all, not a problem - just give them the expectations on the day.

how about the rules get set now for nationals.

either strapped & unstraped = the same points

or everyone has to ride unstrapped.


my vote = unstrapped

I was thinking more of can you define the difficulty of a move strapped vs the same move strapless......

How about a hooked in railey vs unhooked....

What are the categories that now exist ? Old School, Freestyle, Wakestyle, Wave, Speed etc....

No right or wrong answers and please no abusing somebody else for their opinion- the more opinions the better.

This is a silly topic.

Freeride should be deemed as naked kitesurfing..........

Imagine the Ba**slap though

D

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jordy said...

This is a silly topic.

And you're a wanker....what's ya point ?

It is very hard to judge between the different styles and techniques and equally as hard to define what each style is or even how many there are....just keen to see what other people thought.

We think you're silly.

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jordy said...

We think you're silly.

We? Are we?
Yeah why not!
You're silly

No, just Geoff.

He's silly.

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jordy said...

No, just Geoff.

He's silly.

Who is silly?
Can you please point at him?

There he is!!

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airush geoff said...


How about a hooked in railey vs unhooked....

Hooked in railey? Huh? WTF?

unstrapped involves looking like a retard and lots of body draggin.
Go surfing if the waves if they are so good.
Otherwise ride strapped and smash the hell out of it, looping down the line and getting big air on the way out.

To the general public strapped in surf looks HEAPS better than unstrapped.

Personally I prefer twin tip strapped in big surf and ride it like a half pipe and unstrapped in little girly stuff if I'm feeling like looking like a "hero."

It's so not surfing with a kite, it doesn't happen, so why not use the kite and smash it as hard as possible????? aka: old school Felix on his booted wakeboard in double overhead surf!!

Don't see many boosts unstrapped do you! **** progression its only a marketing idea anyway... i mean do snow boarders now ride without bindings? Is the half pipe considered harder without them? Sure, but who gives a ****, judge them the same regardless and the stupid ballerina no straps will soon give up.

Just my opinion.

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airush geoff said...

My mate and I were having a conversation about the upcoming state wave titles in south aus and how to judge between a rider hitting it unstrapped vs strapped and decided it is almost another sport surfing the wave strapless......

So the conversation went down the road of what events are currently offered - a state freestyle title and a state wave title. Both are hard to judge because of the variety in styles... trying to understand what styles or riding types have evolved and what other peoples opinions of the categories are....

I ride strapped and unstrapped depending upon how much I want to swim, if it's a particularly windy day and how the waves are and the location I'm riding. As a surer, I MUCH prefer to ride a surfboard unstrapped-sometimes I just feel like riding strapped, usually don't.

Totally disagree about strapped v unstrapped being different sport-with all due respect, kinda' find that a ridiculous comment.

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Dumbass said...


To the general public strapped in surf looks HEAPS better than unstrapped.

Who gives a fugg what the general public thinks looks better? Oh right, you do-sorry.

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Dumbass said...



It's so not surfing with a kite, it doesn't happen, so why not use the kite and smash it as hard as possible????? aka: old school Felix on his booted wakeboard in double overhead surf!!
Just my opinion.

Do you ride in waves? Ah no, I see you live in Port Hughes-probably not.

That's crap-I'm a 30+ year surfer-it just depends upon how you ride-to me, my riding in waves unstrapped is HEAPS like surfing-particularly if you let off the power. Watch BW ride unstrapped/unhooked-it's about as close to surfing as you can get and still be holding a kite.

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loco4olas said...

airush geoff said...

My mate and I were having a conversation about the upcoming state wave titles in south aus and how to judge between a rider hitting it unstrapped vs strapped and decided it is almost another sport surfing the wave strapless......

So the conversation went down the road of what events are currently offered - a state freestyle title and a state wave title. Both are hard to judge because of the variety in styles... trying to understand what styles or riding types have evolved and what other peoples opinions of the categories are....

I ride strapped and unstrapped depending upon how much I want to swim, if it's a particularly windy day and how the waves are and the location I'm riding. As a surer, I MUCH prefer to ride a surfboard unstrapped-sometimes I just feel like riding strapped, usually don't.

Totally disagree about strapped v unstrapped being different sport-with all due respect, kinda' find that a ridiculous comment.

There are things you can do strapped that you cant do strapless.....there have been instances where a wave comp was won by a guy throwing a flat three on the wave face.....You can't do that strapless...

The difficulty of a manouvre strapped is usually alot less than the same move strapless and sometimes totally impossible.

No disrespect taken - I just wanted some discussion on the different riding styles and difficulty.

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loco4olas said...

Dumbass said...


To the general public strapped in surf looks HEAPS better than unstrapped.

Who gives a fugg what the general public thinks looks better? Oh right, you do-sorry.

Dumbass said...



It's so not surfing with a kite, it doesn't happen, so why not use the kite and smash it as hard as possible????? aka: old school Felix on his booted wakeboard in double overhead surf!!
Just my opinion.

Do you ride in waves? Ah no, I see you live in Port Hughes-probably not.

That's crap-I'm a 30+ year surfer-it just depends upon how you ride-to me, my riding in waves unstrapped is HEAPS like surfing-particularly if you let off the power. Watch BW ride unstrapped/unhooked-it's about as close to surfing as you can get and still be holding a kite.

yep about as close, but it's not surfing. And generally it's cross off lovliness that not many people get that often. Also, you're never totally off the power either, you're picking up slack on a bottom turn or top turn, alittle jiggle against the kite running down the face to get tension etc. s

So should the unstrapped guy win the comp for being unstrapped and making a wave, or should all the strapped guys who make something of it win? I say it doesn't matter, get over this bull**** and judge them for the moves.

I too can ride unstrapped and feel the wave yadda yadda but I really enjoy riping down the line and having a boost for joy at the end of it. It just seems a little over the top, like wave sailing without straps, why do that???

The general public do care after all they come and watch don't they? A mate said my unstrapped looks boring while the guy boosting and landing back on the wave was unreal.

I do ride in waves, it's a long Peninsula.

what about judging on a set of tricks(which cover all the categories) and then awarding a best wake move, best freestyle move, best oldschool move etc.etc. It's all kiteboarding.

Gavin's got it right..that is the formula.

I think you can break a trick down in to smaller sections based on style, difficulty, size of the trick etc set you scoring give each sub catergry a value.

eg. Style 1-7points. 1 being looked kooky sketchy etc.
7 being styled with eaze and tweaked in you own way

Difficulty 1-5 points 1 being straps hooked in small grabs railys etc
5 being unhooked with 3 combined tricks Loops, passes
grabs, spins etc.

Power 1-3 points 1 being not much power very low risk
3 looked big super powered definatly would hurt if crashed.

Landing 0-4 points 0 being a crash
1 being landed heelside sketchy with a but check
4 landed wraped to ozmosis, blind surface pass etc.

With these catergories you can judge a trick riding style etc easily as you can slot in all of your catogries and give them points making it easy to just ride your own style and still have a chance. eg Sketchy mobe-style 2 dificulty 4 power 2 landing 2 score 10. Smooth strapless unhooked cutback in to getting barrled. style 5 dificulty 3 power 1 landing 2 score 11. powered unhooked raily landing toe side with a surface pass style 3 dificulty 2 power 3 landing 3 score 11. Megaloop kgb nosegrab. style 5 dificulty 5 power 3 landing 2 score 15.

So you could just set the criteria so that everyone knows what there being judged on only score there best 5 tricks and find your winner.