Well I never thought this was possible, but I thought I would give it a go and see how good/bad this would turn out.

As some of you know, I am a traction nutter (or just a nutter!) and I love foil kites and land kiting. I just love the quick and easy launching of foil kites and the lack of wasting time and possible back injury pumping up a standard LEI kite, plus the small form factor, weight and convenience of land kiting.

So I went out the other day on my standard LEI kite and decided to pack up the kite with lines/bar still attached, just as I would with a foil kite (which is standard).

It worked!

To make sure it would not tangle, I pulled the lines downwind of the kite, made sure there were no twists and debris attached, and simply started the old figure-8 winding of the lines. When I reached the kite, I left some slag for the kite to allow packing, deflated the kite, rolled up the kite as you would with a LEI (different technique with foils) and wound up the slack on the lines and a final roll with the kite and bar all attached.

Over the weekend (light wind days) I decided to unpack the lot and test my theory. I unwound the lines downwind and walked them up. Lo and behold no tangles! I must have fluked it!

I'll try and unroll them one day and see if I can self-launch without walking the lines back up to the kite, trusting there would be no tangles (that's what I do with my foil kites without a problem).

I used to do this with my foils as well
I like to wash the salt from my bar however...

Not sure why you thought it wouldn't work but it does make rinsing and drying your lines that bit harder

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TurtleHunter said...
Not sure why you thought it wouldn't work but it does make rinsing and drying your lines that bit harder

How is it harder? You just leave a meter or so unwrapped, if you don't have bridles like a foil.

So how many seconds did you save compared to doing it the normal way ;-)

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Kamikuza said..

TurtleHunter said...
Not sure why you thought it wouldn't work but it does make rinsing and drying your lines that bit harder

How is it harder? You just leave a meter or so unwrapped, if you don't have bridles like a foil.

How? Errrm.

Take kite out of bag, open out metre or so of unwrapped lines. Put bar in plastic tub. Cover with water, while being careful to not get kite wet. Swoosh bar in water until well rinsed and clean. Hang bar on clothes line. Put attached kite somewhere safe and not in puddles on the ground. Allow to dry. Pray it doesn't rain on kite. If leaving bar out in the shade during the day to dry, ensure patch of shade is big enough to shade kite as well as bar. (repeat previous if multiple kites/bars used). When dry, wrap up stray metre of line. Put kite in bag. Put bag in car or in rack or whatever.

Vs.

Proceed to back yard with tub of wet stuff. Fill tub with water. Swoosh stuff around. Hang to dry. (use a spearate peg if multiple kites/bars used) Push stuff up shady end of clothes line if leaving out during the day. (meanwhile kites sitting safe and dry in bag in car or kite rack) When dry toss in tub, return to car/rack.

^^ don't forget making sure bar doesn't go through lines while rinsing and drying

Then after washing you'd have to wait for lines and bar to dry before wrapping in kite, seriously is life that rushed, takes around a minute to run out lines

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Gorgo said..

Kamikuza said..

TurtleHunter said...
Not sure why you thought it wouldn't work but it does make rinsing and drying your lines that bit harder

How is it harder? You just leave a meter or so unwrapped, if you don't have bridles like a foil.

How? Errrm.

Take kite out of bag, open out metre or so of unwrapped lines. Put bar in plastic tub. Cover with water, while being careful to not get kite wet. Swoosh bar in water until well rinsed and clean. Hang bar on clothes line. Put attached kite somewhere safe and not in puddles on the ground. Allow to dry. Pray it doesn't rain on kite. If leaving bar out in the shade during the day to dry, ensure patch of shade is big enough to shade kite as well as bar. (repeat previous if multiple kites/bars used). When dry, wrap up stray metre of line. Put kite in bag. Put bag in car or in rack or whatever.

Vs.

Proceed to back yard with tub of wet stuff. Fill tub with water. Swoosh stuff around. Hang to dry. (use a spearate peg if multiple kites/bars used) Push stuff up shady end of clothes line if leaving out during the day. (meanwhile kites sitting safe and dry in bag in car or kite rack) When dry toss in tub, return to car/rack.

Pack the kite in the bag and - here's where the magic is - leave the bar in the pocket outside. Then it's all the same for washing except you have a bag in your hand. Never had an issue doing it that way with the Flysurfers for years...

If you've got special circumstances for drying then you're on your own. Our washing line is under the balcony so... lucky me. All depends on how much extra work you consider is "hard"...

Having lines attached on a kite you have to pump up and flip around just seems like asking for trouble.

I would hate having to have my bar and lines hanging out of the zipped bag (I generally hate having stuff hanging out of zippers), and hate having to hold it in one hand (the bag ... I mean the kite bag) while washing with the other hand. I would hate having to be careful to not screw anything up just to go kiting. Why complicate something as simple as rigging up a kite if you don't have to?

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Kamikuza said..

....
Having lines attached on a kite you have to pump up and flip around just seems like asking for trouble.

Isn't that what you're suggesting? Leave the lines on. Pump up the kite with bar and lines getting in the way. Flip it over, being careful to hang on to the bar and lines. Carry to the beach (or move it into position) being careful not to tangle the attached bar and lines. Wind out the lines. Check everything (because you have to no matter what method you use). Be sure you haven't made a mistake at any point. Check everything. Go.

I think it is much simpler to break it down into a series of discrete, simple, repeatable tasks. Each task can be completed however you want. Each task is simply checked.

Obviously no wind !

Why stop there - leave ur kite pumped up so u save a few more minutes a year too

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Buzz said..

I have never done it, but here is a vid about how to:

http://www.cabrinhakites.com/new-line-management-system.html

I have done this a few times. It works very well ... when it works. When you get it wrong it is a minor nuisance. You just have to disconnect the rear lines and connect them properly but it is a pain.

The real problem is that when you wrap your lines up you get to the end then you have to very carefully detach and organise the line ends, and keep them organised until your next session. It's way too much effort for the benefit.

I now use a simplified version that gives some of the benefits without the effort and care required. When I disconnect the lines, I lark's head each back line to it's corresponding front line. That leaves you with two pairs of connected lines. When you unwrap the lines it greatly reduces the tendency of the line ends to twist around each other. When you walk the lines out with the fronts between your legs and the backs on the outside) you quickly end up at the end with the ends of the lines resting on each leg.

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Buzz said..

I have never done it, but here is a vid about how to:

http://www.cabrinhakites.com/new-line-management-system.html

I have done this a few times. It works very well ... when it works. When you get it wrong it is a minor nuisance. You just have to disconnect the rear lines and connect them properly but it is a pain.

The real problem is that when you wrap your lines up you get to the end then you have to very carefully detach and organise the line ends, and keep them organised until your next session. It's way too much effort for the benefit.

I now use a simplified version that gives some of the benefits without the effort and care required. When I disconnect the lines, I lark's head each back line to it's corresponding front line. That leaves you with two pairs of connected lines. When you unwrap the lines it greatly reduces the tendency of the line ends to twist around each other. When you walk the lines out with the fronts between your legs and the backs on the outside) you quickly end up at the end with the ends of the lines resting on each leg on the correct side.

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Gorgo said..

Buzz said..

I have never done it, but here is a vid about how to:

http://www.cabrinhakites.com/new-line-management-system.html

I have done this a few times. It works very well ... when it works. When you get it wrong it is a minor nuisance. You just have to disconnect the rear lines and connect them properly but it is a pain.

The real problem is that when you wrap your lines up you get to the end then you have to very carefully detach and organise the line ends, and keep them organised until your next session. It's way too much effort for the benefit.

I now use a simplified version that gives some of the benefits without the effort and care required. When I disconnect the lines, I lark's head each back line to it's corresponding front line. That leaves you with two pairs of connected lines. When you unwrap the lines it greatly reduces the tendency of the line ends to twist around each other. When you walk the lines out with the fronts between your legs and the backs on the outside) you quickly end up at the end with the ends of the lines resting on each leg on the correct side.

nice wind tomorrow so will give this a go

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Buzz said..

I have never done it, but here is a vid about how to:

http://www.cabrinhakites.com/new-line-management-system.html

Now that's what I am talking about! Thanks for sharing dude.

You see? Life should be easy - not this running the lines bull****, and I've never had to run the lines with a foil kite, which is why I should be able to do the same with a LEI kite.

The point being - a few seconds on the beach when adrenalin has already kicked in and you want to get out there seems like hours man!

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Gorgo said..

I would hate having to have my bar and lines hanging out of the zipped bag (I generally hate having stuff hanging out of zippers), and hate having to hold it in one hand (the bag ... I mean the kite bag) while washing with the other hand. I would hate having to be careful to not screw anything up just to go kiting. Why complicate something as simple as rigging up a kite if you don't have to?

Kamikuza said..

....
Having lines attached on a kite you have to pump up and flip around just seems like asking for trouble.

Isn't that what you're suggesting? Leave the lines on. Pump up the kite with bar and lines getting in the way. Flip it over, being careful to hang on to the bar and lines. Carry to the beach (or move it into position) being careful not to tangle the attached bar and lines. Wind out the lines. Check everything (because you have to no matter what method you use). Be sure you haven't made a mistake at any point. Check everything. Go.

I think it is much simpler to break it down into a series of discrete, simple, repeatable tasks. Each task can be completed however you want. Each task is simply checked.

Doing it with zippered bags are a bad idea, I agree. The Flysurfer bags use a couple of those plastic buckles to hold the top flap down so it's a non-issue. Stuff bags would be fine too...

*I'm* not suggesting it's a good idea - I think it makes more sense to do it the regular way with LEIs but I don't think it's harder, is all... might save a bit of time leaving them connected - until you flip things the wrong way and then have to undo it all - and theoretically it could be quicker to unpack but just seems to add unnecessary (checking) steps to a simple process!

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Loftywinds said..

Buzz said..

I have never done it, but here is a vid about how to:

http://www.cabrinhakites.com/new-line-management-system.html

Now that's what I am talking about! Thanks for sharing dude.

You see? Life should be easy - not this running the lines bull****, and I've never had to run the lines with a foil kite, which is why I should be able to do the same with a LEI kite.

The point being - a few seconds on the beach when adrenalin has already kicked in and you want to get out there seems like hours man!

Which foils?

With the long bridles on the FSers, I make sure they're the right way around so pulleys don't get stuck in twisted lines... no time saved, really.

Pumping up the kites bothers me more than walking out lines

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Gorgo said..
I now use a simplified version that gives some of the benefits without the effort and care required. When I disconnect the lines, I lark's head each back line to it's corresponding front line. That leaves you with two pairs of connected lines. When you unwrap the lines it greatly reduces the tendency of the line ends to twist around each other. When you walk the lines out with the fronts between your legs and the backs on the outside) you quickly end up at the end with the ends of the lines resting on each leg on the correct side.

Exactly what I do. Do the same with the kite bridles too just out of paranoia

Rigging up gives me extra time to see how others cope with hot launches and beach body body drags.

What's the point in rushing and saving 3 mins?

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Kamikuza said..

... seems to add unnecessary (checking) steps to a simple process!

There is no such thing as unnecessary checks. You always have to check everything all the time no matter what method you use.

When I check I count each pulley or strut clip or knot as I'm checking it. If I get to the end and I'm on the wrong number then I do it again. It's quick and easy to do and reduces the chance of missing anything.

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Kamikuza said..

Loftywinds said..

Buzz said..

I have never done it, but here is a vid about how to:

http://internal/tab?url=broke%3A%2F%2Fwww.cabrinhakites.com%2Fnew-line-management-system.html&referrer=broke%3A%2F%2Fwww.seabreeze.com.au%2Fforums%2FKitesurfing%2FGeneral%2FPacking-a-kite-with-lines-bar-attached%2F&target=_blank

Now that's what I am talking about! Thanks for sharing dude.

You see? Life should be easy - not this running the lines bull****, and I've never had to run the lines with a foil kite, which is why I should be able to do the same with a LEI kite.

The point being - a few seconds on the beach when adrenalin has already kicked in and you want to get out there seems like hours man!

Which foils?

With the long bridles on the FSers, I make sure they're the right way around so pulleys don't get stuck in twisted lines... no time saved, really.

Pumping up the kites bothers me more than walking out lines

I am only talking flysurfer, HQ and a chrono that once got tangled at the bridles. But all of those foils do tend to have the same issues with bridles overlapping or having being inverted, especially if I disconnect the lines and treat them like a LEI kite. I quickly learnt with foils NEVER to unhook the lines to the bridles. But you should shake out the bridles and pull them apart to make sure they are not overlapping or inverted. From their it's unwind lines, hook in and power up!

Have you tried the line 'knuckle' trick? I haven't yet but it keeps the lines evenly seperated when winding the lines and helps keep the bridles apart too but worried about a hard object wrapped up with the kite though.

Washing bar and lines? Really? Gave up on that ages ago. Not had a problem with anything jamming/sticking. I regularly fire off my safety and if it is a bit sticky I will wash it.

It is just a non - issue for me (but for 8 months of the year it is too cold and wet for my gear to dry out between sessions - maybe that is the difference)

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...

I am only talking flysurfer, HQ and a chrono that once got tangled at the bridles. But all of those foils do tend to have the same issues with bridles overlapping or having being inverted, especially if I disconnect the lines and treat them like a LEI kite. ...

In my foil days (with bars after we moved on from handles), I would always disconnect my bar and just tie the ends of the bridles together. I think the early Flysurfers had little velcro tags to park the bridles on. I never got tangled bridles.

The reason I like to disconnect is that I am a touch obsessive about using my gear. Part of the pleasure is ease of set up and ease of pack down and getting everything in clean, neat package. I find this easier to do on clean grass with the components separated. I hate grovelling around on the sand.

I used to envy the LEI guys because they could fly their kites upside down as they walked to the pack up area. I found I could fly me foil on the bridles and drop it neatly into the pack up area. It was kind of fun to do.

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Gorgo said..

I found I could fly me foil on the bridles and drop it neatly into the pack up area. It was kind of fun to do.

?? Huh? You mean drag the flysurfer out of the bag by the bridles to the beach like the LEI guys do with their kites already inflated? Wouldn't that be a hassle and a half with wind flapping your kite all over the place?