Top Quality, JIT and a strong team of 800 people working there.

Nice 2011 tour. I wonder what changes have been made in the last 3years?

Posted to Vimeo October 2010.

Well done Marvin, not selling so many are you?

Select to expand quote

INTHELOOP said..
Top Quality, JIT and a strong team of 800 people working there.

Wonder what the hourly pay rate is?

Select to expand quote

Mask said..

INTHELOOP said..
Top Quality, JIT and a strong team of 800 people working there.

Wonder what the hourly pay rate is?

My guess $300 usd per month.

The average yearly income in Vietnam is about A$2000.00, less outside the big cities. Minimum wage varies for A$95 to A$135 per month depending on region
I wonder if their JIT management philosophe extends to their staffing policy.

Sorry guys i just thought it is interesting to see where your kites come from, how they are getting made and i didn't see this video before so i shared it.The same interest applies to the North factory in Sri Lanka and others.

They all look pretty happy. At least the job gets done over there if they were made here we would be paying 5000 a kite and there would probably be a shortage because the workers would be to busy doing risk assessments having breaks and feeling hard done by.

Select to expand quote

INTHELOOP said..
Sorry guys i just thought it is interesting to see where your kites come from, how they are getting made and i didn't see this video before so i shared it.The same interest applies to the North factory in Sri Lanka and others.

Fact: Yep, everyone wins except for the peasants that make our flash toys.

Another Fact: I can tell everyone on here that shoupls practically double their money on kites,bars ect. (wholesale to retail)

I have seen invoices from a couple of different brands for kites/bars.. And shops mark up 100%.

If any shop (including ITL) wants to upload a scan of an invoice for kites/bars ect and prove me wrong then do it.

It's about making $$$ or they wouldnt be doing it. Sure some really love the sport (you know who you are)..

Select to expand quote

NoBS said..

INTHELOOP said..
Sorry guys i just thought it is interesting to see where your kites come from, how they are getting made and i didn't see this video before so i shared it.The same interest applies to the North factory in Sri Lanka and others.

Fact: Yep, everyone wins except for the peasants that make our flash toys.

Another Fact: I can tell everyone on here that shoupls practically double their money on kites,bars ect. (wholesale to retail)

I have seen invoices from a couple of different brands for kites/bars.. And shops mark up 100%.

If any shop (including ITL) wants to upload a scan of an invoice for kites/bars ect and prove me wrong then do it.

It's about making $$$ or they wouldnt be doing it. Sure some really love the sport (you know who you are)..

Wrong...
I work at a kiteshop and can honestly say that most shops will rarely make 100% profit on a kite.
The closest to 100% profit will be when shops pre-order kites and get a discounted whole sale price, because they have to pay a certain % upfront and generally won't see the kites/boards for at least 2 months. Also any wholesale price that is close to 100%, will most likely be excluding gst, which adds on another 10%.
Don't get me wrong, kites are expensive, though its not the shops making big dollars, i don't think anyone is making much $ in the process.
Look at it this way, the company/factory sells the kite to the importer, who then sells the kite to the shop, who then sells the kite to the customer. So when a shop sells a kite for $2000, don't expect there account to actually go up $2000.
Im not going to upload a receipt as I'm not sure of most importer policies however maybe one of the shops will post one...

I get why kites alone cost ~$1500. There's the R&D, the materials, the work that goes into stitching it all together, the shipping, the profit margins taken from factory -> retail, that I understand. I'm more than happy to pay that.

What I don't get is why bar + lines cost somewhere in the order of between $550 - $650! The lines on their own are $100 or so, OK I can sorta get that. But the extra four or five hundred for a glorified ski handle with a few bits of rope and a pulley or two? That just does my head in. There is nothing in there that I can see that warrants anything more than them being worth $200 or $300 at the most.

Nope ..... Post an invoice and I will believe you. I bet right now all shops will remain silent.

I have seen it with my own eyes. From 3 different brands.

100% mark up on kites and bars.. I understand they have overheads, staff ect I'm not disputing that. Gotta make bank in the quiet times.

Good on em if they can get it.

Nobs, I have not vested interest in any brand or shop and like to pay as little for kites as the next guy, in fact I have a pretty good ex demo deal going with a store that works for me...

BUT, even if Kite stores add to 100% Markup to their Kites,

1. This is a profit margin of 50%, not 100%

2. This does not take into account that they probably pay full price for kites that need as demos and then sell for a reduced price

3. Also, like fruit growing old in a shop, if the kites don't sell quickly, they need to be discounted when they get to the end of the season to clear stock.

4. Any crew that purchase multiple items or purchase regularly from a store will also probably be rewarded with a discount.

5. I don't imagine anyone gets rich running a kite store.

6. They probably have minimum buys from the brands to get be able to sell the brand, a big cash outlay at the start of a season for stock that they hope like hell will sell.

7. Most kite stores rent their stores. Rent is expensive.

8. People should be paid a fair wage for a fair days work but this makes staff in Australia expensive.

9. There is no crime in making a profit.

10. If a kite store is too expensive, don't buy from them - they will probably go out of business anyway.

11. If a kite store offers a good range, carries stock, offers good service and is priced reasonably, then it gets to stay open another season.

12. Kite brands probably charge Australian kite stores a higher cost price than other countries... lots of brands do this. because they can.... Thats why you can guy Rip Curl wetsuits for half the price in the UK than in Australia.

Actually, this sounds a bit like I am attacking you... apologies if it does... not meant to...

Amazing what we humans have made from mother earth, blows my mind. Thankyou to our friends in Vietnam for being part of it and making such great kites. I flog my ozones and they just keep going (with a little repair here and there of course).

I should fish out the dealers rate chart I have from the three companies I've somehow managed to collect...

If you can get punters paying RRP the markup is nearly 100% IIRC.

Volume makes a big difference which is why all stores seem to have an online we store and don't seem to mind treading on toes when it comes to selling across "local" borders, eh

But like it or not, it's a business... Just like any other goods or service we use...

I reckon if you walk into a shop and pay RRP you've only got yourself to blame. The transaction is a negotiation based on all the usual stuff, when you buy, what's the demand, did you ask for a deal, etc. This welfare mentality that shops should sit around not trying to make a profit is ludicrous. Should be thankful you've got something to bitch about, they could just go and get six figures to dig a hole in the ground.

What makes me laugh is that we all complain about prices and retail.

I was blown away by seeing invoices from distributors of brands when working at retail. I then was blown away when working for a distributor and seeing the invoices from the manufacturer.

Its all relative I guess. Its a factor of getting rid of the middle man and buying from the manufacturer.

For instance when you go to the servo and buy a donut it costs you $2.00 well the retailer pays only $0.30 cents for that donut. The risk they are taking is not selling it and having to throw it away. But if they sell it… there is a huge profit.

Why do you think Coles and Woolies are bringing out there own brands. They make way more profit margin and squeeze out the competition.

I personally wait till the end of the seson and pick up a bargain kite or board or buy second hand (one season old) off seabreeze.

I'm going to try a bit of haggling next time I buy groceries or petrol...

Either the listed price is fair and reasonable, or it's simply the most the retailer expects he can get away with conning people!

I like the juxtaposition of "this welfare mentality that shops should sit around not trying to make a profit" and the previous "don't pay RRP, get a big discount!" Ironic...

Bam hipster accusation!

its not really a juxtaposition as by its very definition whenever you are buying something you create a market. On one side the seller is trying to maximize his gain and on the other side the buyer trying to minimize his loss. The seller uses marketing and sales technique to help his side and the buyer uses negotiation or walks out the door to maximise there's.


I've never walked into a kite shop and not been offered a deal, even without asking. Just like I've never walked into Hervey Norman and not been offered a deal. This fair price business is what you are both willing to accept, not what's on the ticket. If the seller had what you wanted ticketed well below market value to the point you knew they were making a loss would you demand to pay a fair price?

Select to expand quote

Dl33ta said...
Just like I've never walked into Hervey Norman and not been offered a deal

There's the problem. Gerry Harvey pushed all this pricing rubbish and look at the results.

Customer entitlement, big chains relying on supplier rebates and tougher pricing from the smaller places.

Even with 100% markups i struggle to see most kite / SUP shops having the turnover to be profitable. And those who are probably end up being sued by sponsored riders

I don't get the hipster bit...

You're agreeing RRP is bull**** and nobody should pay it, ever. I have a new mission in life!

Kite (and other retail) shops here - there is no bargaining for discount. The price is what it is and if you don't like it don't buy it. The local store has up to 15% discount on orders over $2,000 - if you pay $180 a year club membership.

Another story... got my first kite used from online for less than half the retail of the store I had a lesson or two at. The owner threw a tanty when I told him, saying that we could have negotiated a price... funny, cos there was no offer of negotiation on the gear I bought prior :-/

The other side of the coin... If you ever hang out with shop guys, they'll inevitably start moaning about all the pricks who want discounts.

Select to expand quote

NoBS said..

INTHELOOP said..
Sorry guys i just thought it is interesting to see where your kites come from, how they are getting made and i didn't see this video before so i shared it.The same interest applies to the North factory in Sri Lanka and others.

Fact: Yep, everyone wins except for the peasants that make our flash toys.

Another Fact: I can tell everyone on here that shoupls practically double their money on kites,bars ect. (wholesale to retail)

I have seen invoices from a couple of different brands for kites/bars.. And shops mark up 100%.

If any shop (including ITL) wants to upload a scan of an invoice for kites/bars ect and prove me wrong then do it.

It's about making $$$ or they wouldnt be doing it. Sure some really love the sport (you know who you are)..

I am not sure why everyone gets all up in arms at kite prices.

The markup is not a kite thing, it is a business thing ever since money was invented, if you have never owned a business, never had a few sleepless nights and wondered how you are gunna pay the guys next pay week then you will probly never get it.

It is just short sighted to say a business make 100%, Have you thought about the rent, insurance, workers comp, annual leave, public holidays, sick days, dead stock, paying for gear in advance, training, OH&S compliance, wages, cars, theft, dealer meetings, cost of overdraft, discounts, warranty, seasonal downturn, advertising, legal advice, pay the book keeper, return for risk, just to name a few. If you invest in all that you will want something back for your investment.

Have you got the balls to start your own business or have you got a cruisy job and dont think you could make a success of something?
Or just happy plodding along and never game to have a crack and take the risk, put you house on the line, step out of your comfort zone!

Do you actually own a house or wish you could earn more so you didnt have to pay someone else the rent?
Do you have a job? what do you get paid compared to what your boss charges for your labour?

How much does the local dealer charge per hour to service your car? (how much does the apprentice earn).
How much can you buy coke at the super market compared to the local servo?
How much markup do you think there is from a motor bike or jet ski manufacturer compared to the retailer?
Spray paint cans, timber, sunnies, shoes etc etc

Ever walked out of a dentist and wondered why you just payed 300 bucks for half hours work!

It's all about the buyer getting what they believe is a good deal and good service.

For what it's worth I don't think ozone should've really shown a factory in Asia showing all the workers there as the rest of the world knows they all work in pretty well underpaid and overworked conditions.

Kite shops should be able to make a buck but the reality is the general public will always shop around for the best price. I own a business and employ 2 other guys (1 other is a kiter as well) our business is a maintenance and building company and we always have to compete for work based on price. If I want to buy anything that is considered expensive I will shop on price as well. Kite shops are no more special than any other business, sure they support kiters but like any business, music shop, hardware, cafe, anything, they all have no choice but to support their customers or they won't go there. I have no doubt that kite shops aren't making money hand over fist, but hey.....jump in the line with any retail or service industry.

Sponsored kiters, trips to cool locations for product releases and test days, "research" trips, all put together with the fact that all kite brands are releasing the "newest and best" product with the "best r & d in the world" year after year after year really illustrates who is making the money here. Have a look at the kite brands on the line and you will see designers in front of latest macs in cool offices or you will see brand representatives in awesome locations.

Someone is paying for ALL of that and it's you and me. Now in stark contrast have a look at the local kite shop. To get a kite in a cool location they have to organise a safari trip inviting every customer they can get and when they are there they have to pander to everyone's whims. Put that together with the fact that they have to sell kites, wetsuits, accessories, stickers, lessons, whatever they can sell to make a buck and it should all start to make sense to you.

It's the fact of life in business especially in Australia, but my heart will not bleed for them because everyone who owns a retail or service business is in the same boat! Sink or swim.

Just sayin!

Select to expand quote

Kamikuza said..
The other side of the coin... If you ever hang out with shop guys, they'll inevitably start moaning about all the pricks who want discounts.

I guess it's simply we (customers & shops) all want the most money all for ourselves, and are unhappy about parting with it, or not getting enough.

Select to expand quote

wdric said..

NoBS said..

INTHELOOP said..
Sorry guys i just thought it is interesting to see where your kites come from, how they are getting made and i didn't see this video before so i shared it.The same interest applies to the North factory in Sri Lanka and others.

Fact: Yep, everyone wins except for the peasants that make our flash toys.

Another Fact: I can tell everyone on here that shoupls practically double their money on kites,bars ect. (wholesale to retail)

I have seen invoices from a couple of different brands for kites/bars.. And shops mark up 100%.

If any shop (including ITL) wants to upload a scan of an invoice for kites/bars ect and prove me wrong then do it.

It's about making $$$ or they wouldnt be doing it. Sure some really love the sport (you know who you are)..

I am not sure why everyone gets all up in arms at kite prices.

The markup is not a kite thing, it is a business thing ever since money was invented, if you have never owned a business, never had a few sleepless nights and wondered how you are gunna pay the guys next pay week then you will probly never get it.

It is just short sighted to say a business make 100%, Have you thought about the rent, insurance, workers comp, annual leave, public holidays, sick days, dead stock, paying for gear in advance, training, OH&S compliance, wages, cars, theft, dealer meetings, cost of overdraft, discounts, warranty, seasonal downturn, advertising, legal advice, pay the book keeper, return for risk, just to name a few. If you invest in all that you will want something back for your investment.

Have you got the balls to start your own business or have you got a cruisy job and dont think you could make a success of something?
Or just happy plodding along and never game to have a crack and take the risk, put you house on the line, step out of your comfort zone!

Do you actually own a house or wish you could earn more so you didnt have to pay someone else the rent?
Do you have a job? what do you get paid compared to what your boss charges for your labour?

How much does the local dealer charge per hour to service your car? (how much does the apprentice earn).
How much can you buy coke at the super market compared to the local servo?
How much markup do you think there is from a motor bike or jet ski manufacturer compared to the retailer?
Spray paint cans, timber, sunnies, shoes etc etc

Ever walked out of a dentist and wondered why you just payed 300 bucks for half hours work!

It's all about the buyer getting what they believe is a good deal and good service.

WDRIC, I remember a while back you said you get your kites well below retail ... dont you get your course racing kites at a pretty price?? Ozone edges perhaps??

Also I think you had your buisness logo on them. Did you maybe claim this as a business promotion expense??

Anyways you have had, and sold these.. You cant tell me you pay retail for these!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2013 Ozone Edge - 11 metre$750
2013 Ozone Edge - 13 metre$950
2012 Ozone Edge - 11 metre$1,250
2012 Ozone Edge - 9 metre$1,250
2012 Ozone Edge - 13 metre$1,300
2012 Ozone Edge - 17 metre$1,450
2012 Ozone Edge - 15 metre$1,450

Theres a naish torch 7m 2014 second hand on sea breeze for $750 thats well below what they are retailing for, And its this year. The prices these days from factory to second had are horrible.

Select to expand quote

Russman2014 said..
Theres a naish torch 7m 2014 second hand on sea breeze for $750 thats well below what they are retailing for, And its this year. The prices these days from factory to second had are horrible.

pretty sure thats mine, and if you look its a 2013 ;)

www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Kites/~asjh8/2014-Naish-Torch-7-metre.aspx?search=yxrOHND3sv76762Nbkvx7ZwfZ6nY8lq4

Select to expand quote

Drewm said..

yep.

So just to lighten the mood