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ste said..
Hand pump mine, never had a problem. Sick kite!

That's because for normal people 8psi is beginning to get very difficult and only a determined mental case would keep going.

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Kamikuza said..

cauncy said..

Kozzie said..

teabaggin said..
Two weeks ago General Manager of Ozone Iain Hannay posted on Kiteforum and said this Hi Matti, we have made 16 different construction tests in the factory and are just getting the results now, shortly we will have them for you. It has not been a quick process but I can assure you that our factory has done its best to do them as quickly as possible. As promised I will post the results here. It has been interesting.

Cheers Iain

Well heres the results of the test its taken 2 months to release kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2392089&start=60
All 5 Test samples have the reinforced layer of material so Iain you have shown results of a test where the stitching hasn't failed on my kite . Ill ask again Iain Hannay please show the samples of the tests on the stitching of the closure seam just outside of where the layer of reinforcing finishes .

stop using psi gauges and auto pumps.

dont know why you cant just figure out
1. what the damage is
2. how it occurred
3. how to prevent for next time.

not exactly a cause for csi

ozone has some pretty outstanding customer service i cant believe they went out and did those tests for you when it was obvious you had just over pumped your kite.

never used a gauge , auto pumps are for trans genders
1 what damage is , splits to leading edge
2 how it occured , flying kite
3how to prevent for next time, buy another kite

id question the outstanding bit kozzie, had multiple disscussions but never a resolution since 2012, still bought the kite though and accept the downside of le splits but loved the great riding exsperience,

According to the other part of the "test", the LE didn't deform until 10 or 11psi, by which time it was almost impossible to continue pumping by hand. So either the guys with balloon LEs are superhuman pumpers or there's an issue with the kite.

Considering Ozone claims these guys with problems represent 0.1% of their customers, it's pretty piss-poor they can't look after them.

they are wankers who use electric pumps and faulty cheap psi gauges ... or super humans as you call them in japan

Thankyou Ozone for the test results.
In my engineering opinion the results are very accurate.
Only one problem...
They are test results from the re- enforced section of the leading edge .

In any case these results can be divided by 50% due to the use of only 1 stitch on the failing segments of the v8,s leading edge... as opposed to the dual stitching clearly visible in the test photos Ozone provided here. Which i copied for personal record.

Ozone test shows bulging of re enforced section at 10 -11 psi....
Subtract 50 % due to 1 row stitching on non re enforced segment
Single stitch non re enforced = now 5 - 5.5 psi bulging

This is starting to make sense.

Next test states the stitching starts to rip through the material at 17 psi
Divided the result by 50% and you have the reported
Damage occuring at approx....... 8.5 psi...

Only 8.5 PSI

So if you pump your edge to factory 7 psi...
a mild increase in preasure can take it to 8.5 psi quite easily and into what Ozone deems a over inflated psi .

Furthermore Ozone deems 5 psi not quite enough for the edge V8.

And 7 psi seems to be in a potential danger zone.

My conclusion is the 13m edge V8 has an inherent fault in the design focusing around the non re enforced sections that follow outward directly after the re enforced segments.
Its very clear to me the re enforced segments do their job well...... and we can see what occurs when they are
deleted.

Your thoughts Hannay.

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Kozzie said..
they are wankers who use electric pumps and faulty cheap psi gauges ... or super humans as you call them in japan

Making less sense than usual, Kozzie. What's up with that?

When I think edge v8 this comes to mind, smooth, great range, amazing jumping, speed, and just a fun free ride kite. Never had any quality issues in the past edges, or v8! not that I'm saying other people haven't.

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Kamikuza said..

Kozzie said..
they are wankers who use electric pumps and faulty cheap psi gauges ... or super humans as you call them in japan

Making less sense than usual, Kozzie. What's up with that?

i dont even know

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Greenarrowz said..
Thankyou Ozone for the test results.
In my engineering opinion the results are very accurate.
Only one problem...
They are test results from the re- enforced section of the leading edge .

In any case these results can be divided by 50% due to the use of only 1 stitch on the failing segments of the v8,s leading edge... as opposed to the dual stitching clearly visible in the test photos Ozone provided here. Which i copied for personal record.

Ozone test shows bulging of re enforced section at 10 -11 psi....
Subtract 50 % due to 1 row stitching on non re enforced segment
Single stitch non re enforced = now 5 - 5.5 psi bulging

This is starting to make sense.

Next test states the stitching starts to rip through the material at 17 psi
Divided the result by 50% and you have the reported
Damage occuring at approx....... 8.5 psi...

Only 8.5 PSI

So if you pump your edge to factory 7 psi...
a mild increase in preasure can take it to 8.5 psi quite easily and into what Ozone deems a over inflated psi .

Furthermore Ozone deems 5 psi not quite enough for the edge V8.

And 7 psi seems to be in a potential danger zone.

My conclusion is the 13m edge V8 has an inherent fault in the design focusing around the non re enforced sections that follow outward directly after the re enforced segments.
Its very clear to me the re enforced segments do their job well...... and we can see what occurs when they are
deleted.

Your thoughts Hannay.

Iain will not be replying on this forum. He has stated on the other forum that you have made some incorrect assumptions. The pressure loading is greatest in a conical tapered inflated tube at the point of maximum diameter, which is where the tests where conducted. Gerrys (teabaggins) kite shows quite pronounced bulging in this area, this can only happen from overinflation as the tests have proven. Your assumption that strength is reduced by 50% in the areas without the insignia cloth reinforcing is definitely wrong, I'm not sure if Ozone will conduct more tests to prove that, but I am certain that strength is not reduced by 50%. The tests were conducted to prove the strength of the Ozone LE and to counter claims from Gerry that there is an inherent weakness or fault in the kites, because he was so adamant he never over inflated his kites. I've delayed posting these pics until now, so that the tests results back up the photographic evidence.
There is some minor cosmetic tearing of of the stitching at the area just past where the reinforcing stops on Gerry's kite, also a sign that the kite was overinflated. BUT, the kite has not failed as claimed, the kite has not burst and is still fine to use. The damage is cosmetic and is not affecting the performance of Gerrys kite. Ozone's tests show the Edge V8 LE is extremely strong and only crazy amounts of inflation will burst it.

We cannot say how Gerry's kite got overinflated, but it most definitely did. Overinflation is not a case for warranty.

The guage built into the new pumps seem quite accurate in my experience and I have used several different ones now, the end of the green is where I pump my kites to every time I use them (often) and I am seeing no overinflation issues at all.

Ozone changed the leading edge dacron to a different brand (mid 2015'ish) and all the Edge V8 kites (as do all Ozone kites now) are made with this stronger dacron.

The image below shows how much pressure was put into Gerrys kite, either by hand pump, compressor, or due to expansion by heat transfer from the kite being left on hot sand. Gerry came to KP in Sydney with this issue several months after purchasing the kite, and at the end of one of the longest periods of extremely hot temps on record. Gerry also stated to staff at Kitepower in Sydney, and to myself when I spoke to him about his kite, that he likes to pump them up hard because when he crashes them they do not lose pressure from contact with the cooler water.




Demo 10M edge from KP Sydney, showing the leading edge at the same point.

Thats the same bulging Ozone got at the point it became impossible to hand pump the kite? At what pressure was that picture taken?

And not only one person has envountered this problem. The problem is the pressure at which the "over inflation" occurs!

So what's more likely--the production process is flawless and people are putting in superhuman efforts to inflate their gear, or a few kites got made substandard?

The pressure in the kite in the pic above is around 6-7PSI, the damage was already done. The photo was taken at Kitepower's repairer in Sydney where the kite was purchased. From what I've read there are 2 people who kite in the same area, who have this "issue".
Ozone purchase materials in very large amounts, so any defective material (that was not detected in the production and test inflation at the factory) would affect a very large number of kites and it would be logical to assume there would be a large number of affected customers, but thats not the case, is it?
What is the more plausible cause, is accidental overinflation with a compressor, resting a kite on extremely hot sand while rigging and having a natter with kiter mates, or as you said mad overpumping with the hand pump? I have no idea which happened, but for sure one of the above did happen.

QC at the Ozone factory, which also makes paragliders which peoples lives literally hang on, are extremely high. All the dealers I speak to tell me the issues they have with Ozone kites compared to any other brand they sell are very low to non existent.

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Kamikuza said..
Thats the same bulging Ozone got at the point it became impossible to hand pump the kite? At what pressure was that picture taken?

And not only one person has envountered this problem. The problem is the pressure at which the "over inflation" occurs!

So what's more likely--the production process is flawless and people are putting in superhuman efforts to inflate their gear, or a few kites got made substandard?

Must....get...that...last....stroke....iiiiiiiinnn....aahhhhh...pop! Ah sh1t.

I must say, eppo and Cauncy always make me piss my sides that's what we need, more humour on this forum

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TerryMcTool said..
The pressure in the kite in the pic above is around 6-7PSI, the damage was already done. The photo was taken at Kitepower's repairer in Sydney where the kite was purchased. From what I've read there are 2 people who kite in the same area, who have this "issue".
Ozone purchase materials in very large amounts, so any defective material (that was not detected in the production and test inflation at the factory) would affect a very large number of kites and it would be logical to assume there would be a large number of affected customers, but thats not the case, is it?
What is the more plausible cause, is accidental overinflation with a compressor, resting a kite on extremely hot sand while rigging and having a natter with kiter mates, or as you said mad overpumping with the hand pump? I have no idea which happened, but for sure one of the above did happen.

QC at the Ozone factory, which also makes paragliders which peoples lives literally hang on, are extremely high. All the dealers I speak to tell me the issues they have with Ozone kites compared to any other brand they sell are very low to non existent.

Not if it's a construction or materials issue. QC won't catch it, especially if they're not inflating to normal pressures. Assuming they even do that check.

I've never seen a kite pop on hot sand. It gets so hot here you can't stand in one place, and yet people cover the beach with kites, leaving them in sun and in the sand for hours. If that's all it takes to distort a LE then I'd stay away from that brand. It's 2016, not 2006.

I've been pumping my kites up to over 7psi for 5 years, and there's no distortion of the LE like that. If it can only be done with a compressor, those couple of guys can only answer that. The few times I've used a compressor, it was a slow and laborious process to get enough pressure in the kite at all. If the material is so inconsistent that a teeny bit over-pressure is enough to distort it, I'd stay away from that brand.

The ONLY LE I've seen explode was . . . a 2015 Zephyr. Oddly, the material gave out, not the stitching. Real quality stuff.

I guess I won't be buying Ozone paragliders either then.

Im sinc ing my posts on both forums due to them being deleted on the other forum..... thats a red flag in itself.

The above pic is a 10m kite with a smaller diameter leading edge an cannot be used for comparison purposes with a 13m kite with much larger diameter leading edge.

The top pic is taken 35° closer to the canopy where the kites in mention are the same...near level.

The letter "E" can be used as a reference inprinted near the rule.

The lower pic is taken 35° closer to the inside of the canopy were the contour is more apparent.

Im interested to hear the results were the "NON" re enforced segments start to fail...

Seems odd that data was not posted ..being the direct core to this topic......

Kitepower sold a 13m edge v8 in approx july 15 and the very next serial sequence 13m edge v8 in dec 15.
Thats a very low sale high fault ratio.
I can understand the limited claims.

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ste said..
I must say, eppo and Cauncy always make me piss my sides

So that casual threesome worked out well for you then.

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Kamikuza said..

I've never seen a kite pop on hot sand. It gets so hot here you can't stand in one place, and yet people cover the beach with kites, leaving them in sun and in the sand for hours





go to egypt, the sounds of kites blowing up on the beach are often mistaken for gunfire.

oh and you wont buy ozone paragliders? hahahaha ozone is hands down the best kite+glider company and definitely hold there own in the top 3 for just kite or just glider in there individual firms. i dont understand what you are getting out of this. i would love to know what companys better in your eyes then ozone and why. its like watching a 17 year old say holden vl is the best car in world, its that level of derangement i cant see where you are coming from.

your mates kite over inflated this caused the stitching to pop thru a bit of fabric end of story its very very simple and obvious to anyone who has been involved in kiting. if you have handled 10 20 100 kites you would understand just how silly you sound. theyre not magical objects where the name on it means its one thing or another. theyre physical objects that will behave in a certain way when forces are put on them.

the fact that he used a psi gauge to me just confirmed everything i thought about this. 7 months of over inflating his kite busting it up getting it dumped on by waves tomahawking it leaving it pumped on beach etc etc where is the mystery? and then ozone being the ridiculously good company with customer service actually go out and run tests just for him to put him at ease and he refutes it and screams lieing on the floor in the choclate aisle like a damn baby.

i know personally time where ozone has sent out hundreds of dollers worth of kit to customers who had an issue with one of there products. i can only assume this is what your friend really wanted and when he didnt get it this is what were left with. several embaressing pages on not just one kite forum.

all i can say is im glad as hell im not either of you because i wouldnt want to loose my credibility, you gotto be dumb to not know you have stuffed up and then try to blame others for your own actions like a private high school girl reverseing into someones car in a carpark, knowing little more then enough to be dangerous

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Kamikuza said..

TerryMcTool said..
The pressure in the kite in the pic above is around 6-7PSI, the damage was already done. The photo was taken at Kitepower's repairer in Sydney where the kite was purchased. From what I've read there are 2 people who kite in the same area, who have this "issue".
Ozone purchase materials in very large amounts, so any defective material (that was not detected in the production and test inflation at the factory) would affect a very large number of kites and it would be logical to assume there would be a large number of affected customers, but thats not the case, is it?
What is the more plausible cause, is accidental overinflation with a compressor, resting a kite on extremely hot sand while rigging and having a natter with kiter mates, or as you said mad overpumping with the hand pump? I have no idea which happened, but for sure one of the above did happen.

QC at the Ozone factory, which also makes paragliders which peoples lives literally hang on, are extremely high. All the dealers I speak to tell me the issues they have with Ozone kites compared to any other brand they sell are very low to non existent.

Not if it's a construction or materials issue. QC won't catch it, especially if they're not inflating to normal pressures. Assuming they even do that check.

I've never seen a kite pop on hot sand. It gets so hot here you can't stand in one place, and yet people cover the beach with kites, leaving them in sun and in the sand for hours. If that's all it takes to distort a LE then I'd stay away from that brand. It's 2016, not 2006.

I've been pumping my kites up to over 7psi for 5 years, and there's no distortion of the LE like that. If it can only be done with a compressor, those couple of guys can only answer that. The few times I've used a compressor, it was a slow and laborious process to get enough pressure in the kite at all. If the material is so inconsistent that a teeny bit over-pressure is enough to distort it, I'd stay away from that brand.

The ONLY LE I've seen explode was . . . a 2015 Zephyr. Oddly, the material gave out, not the stitching. Real quality stuff.

I guess I won't be buying Ozone paragliders either then.

All ozone kites are test inflated, not over inflated.

Kites pop on the beach all the time here (Australia gets pretty hot too!) Most of the time its because the LE already has some small cuts or scratches which have weakened the LE material quite a lot.

Nearly all of kites we get in for repair with an exploded LE or Strut, the material has given way, not the stitches... nothing new there. Sometimes the closing seam can drop a few stitches at the LE segment join where there are the most layers of material but is very rare these days and generally a free 10second fix at the repairers if you notice it before the LE goes bang. You are more than welcome to steer clear of all Ozone Zephyr 2015's because of your single experience.

We get it, you don't like Ozone

I bloody love my ozones
But the reliability of the edges is very frustrating as a free ride kite
My instincts were trouble free
My instinct sports also
Then all models of edges since till 2013 have had problems , the 9 10s and 11s especially, I'd have between 4/6 splits in exactly the same spots next to bridle attachments but never struts or canopy failures
Not however in the same manner regarding this post, I'm a stickler for quality, if you look at an ozone out of the bag you'll struggle to see a kite as superbly presented, the quality is faultless in its presentation,
As for the shots, if your going to produce it as evidence then at least do a similar shot, the rule used in the 1st shot isn't laying on the Le it s up in the air, also fudging the angles to make one more apparent than the other doesn't help the way the 1st one looks, for a few years it seem like edge riders require a more robust kite, carnt see why ozone wouldn't produce one, let's hope we see one

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ste said...
When I think edge v8 this comes to mind, smooth, great range, amazing jumping, speed, and just a fun free ride kite. Never had any quality issues in the past edges, or v8! not that I'm saying other people haven't.

When I think of them I think of Neil at hold the lines, how's he going?

The ozone edge is a fat old man's kite - I know because I have one.
It is well suited to pie eating beef-men who don't want to be underpowered - probably the same type of beef-man that can pump their kite up so hard it breaks.
I will give ozone the benefit of the doubt as mine is still as good as the day I bought it 3 years later.
Will def. buy another ozone edge when my tax return comes in. And some bulk beef brisket from the wholesaler.

Whats up Steve , losing too many sales on V8 edges are we because in my opinion that's the only reason you have replied to this thread and the thread on KF. I know you have been itching for 3 months to express your side of it. You jumped to conclusions pretty quick here www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Ozone-Edges-leading-edge-tears/?page=2 to protect your brand also. Again show the results of the tests just outside of where the reinforcing finishes . I know Iain has done them , but that wouldn't look good for Ozone would it . So you post test results on the area that has reinforcing material in it ( where the stitching on my kite has not failed ) so it looks good for Ozone.
Gerrys (teabaggins) kite shows quite pronounced bulging in this area, this can only happen from overinflation as the tests have proven .
Steve you really thought you got me with this photo



I don't know why you kept it secret for so long Steve , I posted it up on KF on May 22nd
But there just happens to be another 13m V8 edge bought 4 mths after from Kitepower that also looks like a sausage factory
Photos below of Dans ( greenarrowz ) kite taken when my kite was being repaired




The kite ( greenarrowz ) in the two photos above was pumped to 6psi which is in the lower section of green on pump gauge. After hearing of my issue with my kite Dan was too scared to pump it any higher even though the gauge shows that it is still in green if pumped to 8 psi.
So Steve have both kites been overinflated or are they both factory faults . I told you my kite looked like this when I first pumped it up and I first thought that that's how they must be and when I saw Dans kite first time I saw two kites the same so didn't think much more of the shape it must be right but you don't believe me.
We cannot say how Gerry's kite got overinflated, but it most definitely did. Overinflation is not a case for warranty. Steve you already said to me my kite got overinflated sitting on hot sand on the beach on a 40 degree day so you just contradicted yourself. Overinflation is not a case for warranty, I agree with that but TWO KITES that come out of an OZONE factory that BOTH look like they came out of a sausage factory where the stitching has failed on BOTH just outside of reinforced section of LE do have a case for warranty. Lets talk about two photos that Peace took of the 10 metre edge in the shop at Kitepower to try to prove how dramatic the difference is in the LE to mine. Nice try Peace you've taken photos of a 10 metre V7 edge which isn't even the same type of kite to mine. Steve I asked you to pump up a new 13 metre V8 edge you have in your shop to look at the shape but you declined .
(Gerry also stated to staff at Kitepower in Sydney, and to myself when I spoke to him about his kite, that he likes to pump them up hard because when he crashes them they do not lose pressure from contact with the cooler water.) That's bull**** Steve and you know it . I said to both you and Peace that I pump the kite up to the highest green setting on the gauge and flick the leading edge with my finger to double check incase the gauge is faulty because I know that if the kite does contact the cooler water the LE does loose pressure and it makes it more difficult to relaunch. Steve , I cant believe you have even tried to twist my words around to make your case look better .
I only put the warranty claim in because I saw another kite with the same issues as mine in exactly the same location on the LE . That other kite just happens to be the next 13 metre V8 made on the production line at OZONE'S factory proven by the serial numbers on the kites. Wake up to yourself OZONE and start looking after your customers

Just for the record my last 2 edges before this kite were a 2008 11m instinct edge which I used a lot for 6 years no issues and a 2010 13m edge which I used a lot for 5 years no issues. Both of these kites were bought from Kitepower.

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Kozzie said..

oh and you wont buy ozone paragliders? hahahaha ozone is hands down the best kite+glider company and definitely hold there own in the top 3 for just kite or just glider in there individual firms. i dont understand what you are getting out of this. i would love to know what companys better in your eyes then ozone and why. its like watching a 17 year old say holden vl is the best car in world, its that level of derangement i cant see where you are coming from.

What are the other two?

As you say, derangement.

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KPSS Used said..

All ozone kites are test inflated, not over inflated.

Kites pop on the beach all the time here (Australia gets pretty hot too!) Most of the time its because the LE already has some small cuts or scratches which have weakened the LE material quite a lot.

Nearly all of kites we get in for repair with an exploded LE or Strut, the material has given way, not the stitches... nothing new there. Sometimes the closing seam can drop a few stitches at the LE segment join where there are the most layers of material but is very rare these days and generally a free 10second fix at the repairers if you notice it before the LE goes bang. You are more than welcome to steer clear of all Ozone Zephyr 2015's because of your single experience.

We get it, you don't like Ozone

To what pressure? On how accurate a gauge? Sure it isn't you guys over inflating them before you send them out?

Wait, dropped stitches are a thing? Oh yes, that new Catalyst we had had whole sections missing. . . . That QC not looking too thorough. Repairint a new kite, crikey.

We get it, you don't like warranty claims.

Why is the person holding the straight edge, leaving a gap between the straight edge & LE in this pic ?

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toppleover said...
Why is the person holding the straight edge, leaving a gap between the straight edge & LE in this pic ?

Its only a 5mm gap..used to exaggerate the buldge..old trick

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TerryMcTool said..
The pressure in the kite in the pic above is around 6-7PSI, the damage was already done. The photo was taken at Kitepower's repairer in Sydney where the kite was purchased. From what I've read there are 2 people who kite in the same area, who have this "issue".
Ozone purchase materials in very large amounts, so any defective material (that was not detected in the production and test inflation at the factory) would affect a very large number of kites and it would be logical to assume there would be a large number of affected customers, but thats not the case, is it?
What is the more plausible cause, is accidental overinflation with a compressor, resting a kite on extremely hot sand while rigging and having a natter with kiter mates, or as you said mad overpumping with the hand pump? I have no idea which happened, but for sure one of the above did happen.

QC at the Ozone factory, which also makes paragliders which peoples lives literally hang on, are extremely high. All the dealers I speak to tell me the issues they have with Ozone kites compared to any other brand they sell are very low to non existent.

So your saying the edge should only be inflateded to 6 -7 psi. It doesn't say in the manual what pressure to inflate it to but it does have a picture of a pressure gauge at 8 psi

Not to mention how inaccurate the gauges are, as Kozzie keeps telling us.

So you can't win: trust the gauge or go by feel, the LE is too fragile to handle proper inflation :o

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Kamikuza said..

Kozzie said..

oh and you wont buy ozone paragliders? hahahaha ozone is hands down the best kite+glider company and definitely hold there own in the top 3 for just kite or just glider in there individual firms. i dont understand what you are getting out of this. i would love to know what companys better in your eyes then ozone and why. its like watching a 17 year old say holden vl is the best car in world, its that level of derangement i cant see where you are coming from.

What are the other two?

As you say, derangement.

north and cab of course

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sails
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Pryde

derrr? :P

your instructor should have taught you how to pump your kite. its not hard

simple ping test when the tube is free floating with nothing touching it is a bit ruff to be honest so a true test i allways teach is to find a section inbetween 2 stitched points. so its a nice section of unstiched material and flex it in the middle of this point.
the entire reason of inflating a kite is to create a rigid structure for the aerofoil to perform. this is little more then to ensure it does not warp or bend to much when in flight. it really does not require all that much.

i allways have mine a little underinflated to prolong the kites durability and because i want to allow a bit of wriggle room for the gas to expand. another important thing i do and teach is i never close off all the struts. when you crash the kite on the leading edge all that air gets pushed out to the tips and compresses with some very strong forces having the struts open lets it bleed off evenly into the struts. i will however close one or 2 of the smaller struts in the event of an catastrophic accident of some sort (i also only buy 5 strut kites for this fact among many other reasons)

North and Cab make paragliders? Wow, didn't know that.

So you're suggesting people void their warranties by pumping the delicate Edge's up by feel? "6 ok, 7 no way."

Just as reference; I have known teabaggin since around 2007 when i started kiting. He finally upgraded the edges last year after a hell of a lot of use. He used older versions almost daily and I was amazed how well they lasted. Just saying he knows edges very well and knows how to pump up a kite.