Hi all

I purchased a brand new, major-brand kite last month, and on its 3rd ever session it has suffered a massive tear. Although I'm still new to the sport I'm a competent kiter and well out of the kite-crashing phase. I'm generally very conservative in my riding, spend most of my time practicing transitions and toeside in both directions, i.e. with my board stuck to the water - I've only just started popping small airs.

I reckon it has only spent 1.5 hours in the sky prior to this. Setup and packed down only on sandy beaches, always packed down dry, and cleared well of anything sharp. Zero previous crashes. Constructed with double-core nylon in the canopy. I love my equipment and am careful with it to the point of being anal.

In only moderately windy conditions at the weekend (18kts tops I reckon) I popped a small air and the kite fell out of the sky. At the time I thought this was a lull. I pushed the bar away and landed in the water. Although I didn't see it (head under water) I assume the kite hit the water LE down, as this was how it was when I surfaced, but overall I would say this was a low-impact water crash. To my amazement I then saw a full-length tear in the canopy, from trailing to leading edge, just adjacent to a seam between the centre and middle strut. Other kiters say it wasn't particularly gusty, so I wonder whether the tear originated during my jump (instead of being a lull in the wind), and not than on impact, although this is speculation.

On inspection, it looks as though the tear originated where the canopy meets the LE, under a stitched-on reinforcement panel. My suspicion is that the nylon's strength in this region may have been compromised by the stitched-on panel. I'm sure it can be repaired, but I feel that there may be faulty manufacturing at play and really would like the company to sort something out under warranty. So far the company is suggesting this damage is consistent with a pinhole which I hadn't noticed that led to a bigger tear. I find this extremely hard to believe. My family owns 3 other kites from the same brand which have had extensive use and none have had any pinholes or tears.

What do others think about this? Any previous similar experiences?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts offered.

A very disappointed kiter

Have you been to the shop you bought it from to let them take a look at it? If you have a good relationship with them then genuine warranty issues are never a problem.
Bought on line, from overseas? Contact them. Be prepared to pack up and post the kite back to them for warranty assessment. This will take a very long time.

photo?

The problem with launching bits of pumped up fabric on a beach with shells and crap around is that it can easily be damaged. It only takes a nick or 2 of during the drag launch to damage the kite. It could very well be just bad luck!

^^^ Like Plummet said, a photo? (of the whole length of the split, so maybe even 2 or 3 pics, sharp and in focus)

If there is any sign of a diagonal ( to the rip stop) section in the tear, then this clearly indicates that the kite was cut somehow during a self launch or landing and no manufacturer will grant warranty based of faulty workmanship or materials. Some of the bigger brands do grant "goodwill" warranty in cases where there is no clear indication why a canopy ripper or an LE tore, these are nearly always arranged by re-visiting the dealer where you purchased the kite from and asking for help.

These unseen nicks and cuts then cause an "inexplicable" tear in the kite, and a claim for warranty, but 99% of the time in my experience there is an unseen cut that was the real cause.

Had a similar experience recently, my son's first new kite though a last year model unwrapped out of box.
SFA air time and had not even done a self launch, mild day after lunch and second session, did the launch myself didn't look for pin holes just a routine scan check pressure etc after parking on the beach. Very clean fine sand no shells weed or driftwood and well out of range of soldier crabs! Had a LE crash while warming up nothing tricky just in a turn, made me wonder if it opened up before the crash, unusual was my first thought standing on the beach nearby, damage soon obvious.
He's way past learner stage 5 years kite experience over 2 in boarding, very rarely even puts the kite in the water these days after a body crash. his 2nd hand older year model kites have not had a repair yet after going thru learner stage, doing unassisted launch and land practice from time to time. I'd put him at mid intermediate as far as skill, unhooked and handle passes next on the curve. So competent enough to steer his wing thru a crash situation.
The rip on your kite sounds similar to that on Oli's, jagged from the LE past the reinforcement and straight along the next strut from centre.
KpA Syd were helpful even though not the dealer, with Oli heading that way for holidays the 10 would have been the kit, sent photo's also to dealer (other side of OZ) and brand name. Coming from a regional area purchase is not always local how would you be if your new motor had a problem in another state, manufacturer should support dealer network regardless of place of purchase!
Repair cost 100 and the 10 while has not seen a lot of use has been pushed up to over powered, already lasted longer than from new, don't know for how long!
Like to see your damage and know the brand and model. PM if you prefer not to name, inexplicable and bad luck should not be an excuse for premature failure, how would a kite school keep their head above water if kites failed in this manner? first crash! Howsey bummer ay hope you get some satisfaction and others out there can add some experience input. no tools please.

Thanks all for some really helpful comments. Rayoli the experience with your son 's 10 sounds eerily familiar. Couldn't quite tell from your post whether you got covered by warranty in the end or not - sounds as though you didn't?

I'll post some anonymised photos soon, although in some ways I may as well post them as they are, because the company have said their lifetime warranty doesn't cover this. Will gladly email photos now to anyone keen to see some for my benefit or their own interest - PM me with an email address.

On the plus side I'm off on a 5 day kiting trip now; I'll be using the 10 yr-old kite I learned on (family heirloom) which - guess what - has needed no fabric repairs in its long service...

Thanks again everyone, it's really great having a community for support when sh1t like this happens (sounding like a pretty sad case now!)

Select to expand quote

westozwind said..

...If you have a good relationship with them then genuine warranty issues are never a problem.

That relationship bit does not sit right with me. Any customer whether they are known to the store from past purchases or not, should not have to have a "relationship" to get good service or warranty issues sorted.

^^^ but if you want them to go over and above and fight for a warranty with the manufacturer for you a good relationship helps. Many shops have even paid for repairs when a warranty isn't covered by the manufacturer for regular customers. Would you expect them to do that if you bought your gear somewhere else

Kazan's right -- the shop builds the relationship, not the customer. Plenty if other shops around, despite what the store might think...

Going above and beyond is what builds "good will" and a loyal customer base, not forcing customers to kiss-ass to get in the buddy club just to get what us the legal right.

If the store is a representative of the brand it's my opinion that it doesn't matter where the kite was bought...

Once you paid for a brand new kite you are basically on your own. Manufacturers don't seem to see the need for customer retention by exchanging a faulty product under warranty. What we are left with is the shop who might be a little more customer oriented seeking a fair dealing solution by FOC fixing i.e. repairing the kite. Whether this is due to a good "relationship" or the intention to build one. I had three clear warranty issues with 3 different brands from 3 different shops in 2 different states. One out of the box leak. Did cost me 2.5 months mid season until they realised they were trying to repair the wrong thing, finally ordered a new bladder from a manufacturer who charges premium prices for ridiculous quality and service, delivery took 1.5 months. The other time the leading edge bursted when a friend launched me, that was the third time I flew the kite and no, it has never had any crash or contact to rocks, shells or other rubbish on the beach. Only I know that there has not been any micro damage caused by using it. Anyway, manufacturer rejected exchange. Shop repaired FOC and quickly which was probably all they could do and I can't blame them them for anything and would buy from them again.
Third time I had a leading edge bladder burst due to the bladder being twisted inside which most likely was a manufacturing issue. Shop repaired FOC under warranty within two days, excellent customer service, with the shop sorting out the costs later (or maybe paying it themselves, that is customer retention).
I had also two boards replaced FOC under warranty from the same manufacturer. Seems it is easier to get a warranty claim through for a board as there is a little less room for interpretations with regards to what the user might have done wrong.
So if you don't have a helpful shop at hand you might be better off having your kites quickly repaired by those who specialise in this, which does not cost much and ensures that you are not missing a day on the water which is priceless. That (extended) warranty BS is often unfortunately nothing but marketing and de facto pretty much worth nothing. Just my humble view on this. Again, this is not criticising shops but manufacturers. Most of the shops based on my experience do try their best, most...

Select to expand quote

Kamikuza said..

Kazan's right -- the shop builds the relationship, not the customer. Plenty if other shops around, despite what the store might think...

Going above and beyond is what builds "good will" and a loyal customer base, not forcing customers to kiss-ass to get in the buddy club just to get what us the legal right.

If the store is a representative of the brand it's my opinion that it doesn't matter where the kite was bought...

+1

My new kites have challenged me to trash them , with a replacement or free repair, also if I'm not happy with the product I can hand them back and be refunded, all I need is wind

The local shop you buy an item from should always be the first place to go for a warranty claim

Select to expand quote

RussKraut said..

One out of the box leak. Did cost me 2.5 months mid season until they realised they were trying to repair the wrong thing, finally ordered a new bladder from a manufacturer who charges premium prices for ridiculous quality and service, delivery took 1.5 months.

I had the same thing. I spent the best part of 2 grand on a new kite and the first time I used it it wouldn't hold pressure. The shop I bought it from repaired quickly but I demanded a new, unrepaired replacement bladder. I did finally get it but it took 6 months. I had spoken to Fair Trading and they told me I was entitled under the legislation for a complete replacement or a complete refund (failure out of the box). I was told that the warranty is the responsibility of the trader, not the supplier. If a shop tries to pass the responsibility for meeting guarantee requirements onto the manufacturer then they are not meeting their legal responsibilities.

Select to expand quote

SonnyRider said..

Kamikuza said..

Kazan's right -- the shop builds the relationship, not the customer. Plenty if other shops around, despite what the store might think...

Going above and beyond is what builds "good will" and a loyal customer base, not forcing customers to kiss-ass to get in the buddy club just to get what us the legal right.

If the store is a representative of the brand it's my opinion that it doesn't matter where the kite was bought...

+1

+1 Got denied warranty from a local shop and brand rep for a ripped kite. It was known that this major brand had a faulty batch of kites
and all the boys with a good relationship to the dealer and with the same fault had theirs replaced. The brand rep and dealer were
telling me bull**** as it was my first kite from them.
Only after posting here, did the dealer/brand rep budge under the condition I did not post any further.
Never did buy anything from that local shop and brand again.

Select to expand quote

snalberski said..

RussKraut said..

One out of the box leak. Did cost me 2.5 months mid season until they realised they were trying to repair the wrong thing, finally ordered a new bladder from a manufacturer who charges premium prices for ridiculous quality and service, delivery took 1.5 months.

I had the same thing. I spent the best part of 2 grand on a new kite and the first time I used it it wouldn't hold pressure. The shop I bought it from repaired quickly but I demanded a new, unrepaired replacement bladder. I did finally get it but it took 6 months. I had spoken to Fair Trading and they told me I was entitled under the legislation for a complete replacement or a complete refund (failure out of the box). I was told that the warranty is the responsibility of the trader, not the supplier. If a shop tries to pass the responsibility for meeting guarantee requirements onto the manufacturer then they are not meeting their legal responsibilities.

I should have done that research as well and throw the kite back at the dealer. They clearly used the manufacturer as an excuse and I Trusted them. Won't happen again. Guess with more people buying online, those of us who spend 2000$ on a kite in a local shop will have to get a little more than just the product. Some shops understand this, some others don't. Hope in the long run the market will sort it out.

Select to expand quote

RedKite said..

SonnyRider said..

Kamikuza said..

Kazan's right -- the shop builds the relationship, not the customer. Plenty if other shops around, despite what the store might think...

Going above and beyond is what builds "good will" and a loyal customer base, not forcing customers to kiss-ass to get in the buddy club just to get what us the legal right.

If the store is a representative of the brand it's my opinion that it doesn't matter where the kite was bought...

+1

+1 Got denied warranty from a local shop and brand rep for a ripped kite. It was known that this major brand had a faulty batch of kites
and all the boys with a good relationship to the dealer and with the same fault had theirs replaced. The brand rep and dealer were
telling me bull**** as it was my first kite from them.
Only after posting here, did the dealer/brand rep budge under the condition I did not post any further.
Never did buy anything from that local shop and brand again.

That sucks. Explains why online sales are booming. Bet these guys are the first to complain and whine about how hard it is to run a shop. News flash. Its because your shiit at running a shop.

Select to expand quote

RedKite said..
Only after posting here, did the dealer/brand rep budge under the condition I did not post any further.
Never did buy anything from that local shop and brand again.

Oh, what a shock

Select to expand quote

RedKite said..
all the boys with a good relationship to the dealer and with the same fault had theirs replaced

And that's just disgusting.


Store and brand? Tried searching all your posts, but nothing shows older than 60 days, and can't search back more than 2 year. Lame.

Select to expand quote

Brohan said..

So I was reading this thread last night, today this happened................

Ow, snap!

Warranties in themselves have no meaning.

Under Australian law:
- goods have to be fit for purpose
- of merchantable quality
- perform as described

If goods fail any of those criteria then the seller is obliged to refund,replace or repair. The remedy is the buyers choice. The seller does not get to choose.

You must have proof of purchase. You don't need the receipt or original packaging.

The seller cannot have a policy of no refunds.

It doesn't matter if the goods are on sale or discounted.

Good luck with that, Gorgo. If they're determined not to be put out, you'll pretty much have to lawyer up... seen that happen a few times. Occasionally, stating the Consumer Protection Act or what the OZ version is will get things moving along but... well, but.

Select to expand quote

Brohan said..

So I was reading this thread last night, today this happened................

Ouch!!

If it's any consellation, the same thing happened to my kite yesterday. Oh well, that should teach me buying cheap kites older than 5 years.

Select to expand quote

RussKraut said..

One out of the box leak. Did cost me 2.5 months mid season until they realised they were trying to repair the wrong thing, finally ordered a new bladder from a manufacturer who charges premium prices for ridiculous quality and service, delivery took 1.5 months.

I had the same thing. I spent the best part of 2 grand on a new kite and the first time I used it it wouldn't hold pressure. The shop I bought it from repaired quickly but I demanded a new, unrepaired replacement bladder. I did finally get it but it took 6 months. I had spoken to Fair Trading and they told me I was entitled under the legislation for a complete replacement or a complete refund (failure out of the box). I was told that the warranty is the responsibility of the trader, not the supplier. If a shop tries to pass the responsibility for meeting guarantee requirements onto the manufacturer then they are not meeting their legal responsibilities.

Become formula with the ACCC's Consumer Rights & Guarantees.
www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees

Then write a letter to the manufacturer, the ACCC has a nice template to help you out.
www.accc.gov.au/consumers/complaints-problems/write-a-complaint-letter#complaint-letter-template

If you do not get a reply in 10 days call the ACCC and lodge a claim against the manufacturer.
Long story short all Manufacturers that sell products in Australia are bound by Australian Consumer Law.

www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=home.htm

Warranties mean very little these days, its more of a marketing gimmick to lock you into a sale.
As for overseas or online sales, it's a bit different because you are covered by the warranty law of that country.
No company wants to be flagged by the ACCC so you can expect that you will be treated nicely once you go to them dirrectly.
But i'm doubtful it ever will.

Good luck.

Hi guys
Two things I'm not sure about

Select to expand quote

Kitepower Australia said..

^^^ Like Plummet said, a photo? (of the whole length of the split, so maybe even 2 or 3 pics, sharp and in focus)

If there is any sign of a diagonal ( to the rip stop) section in the tear, then this clearly indicates that the kite was cut somehow during a self launch or landing and no manufacturer will grant warranty based of faulty workmanship or materials. Some of the bigger brands do grant "goodwill" warranty in cases where there is no clear indication why a canopy ripper or an LE tore, these are nearly always arranged by re-visiting the dealer where you purchased the kite from and asking for help.

These unseen nicks and cuts then cause an "inexplicable" tear in the kite, and a claim for warranty, but 99% of the time in my experience there is an unseen cut that was the real cause.

Surely that line should be
a manufacturer will only grant warranty based of faulty workmanship or materials.

Steely
Do you send the letter with the ACCC's template to the retailer or the manufacturer
In the first paragraph your saying it the retailer responsibility.
In the second you writing letter to the manufacturer

Select to expand quote

IanR said..

Hi guys
Two things I'm not sure about

Kitepower Australia said..

^^^ Like Plummet said, a photo? (of the whole length of the split, so maybe even 2 or 3 pics, sharp and in focus)

If there is any sign of a diagonal ( to the rip stop) section in the tear, then this clearly indicates that the kite was cut somehow during a self launch or landing and no manufacturer will grant warranty based of faulty workmanship or materials. Some of the bigger brands do grant "goodwill" warranty in cases where there is no clear indication why a canopy ripper or an LE tore, these are nearly always arranged by re-visiting the dealer where you purchased the kite from and asking for help.

These unseen nicks and cuts then cause an "inexplicable" tear in the kite, and a claim for warranty, but 99% of the time in my experience there is an unseen cut that was the real cause.

Surely that line should be
a manufacturer will only grant warranty based of faulty workmanship or materials.

Steely
Do you send the letter with the ACCC's template to the retailer or the manufacturer
In the first paragraph your saying it the retailer responsibility.
In the second you writing letter to the manufacturer

Re write the ACCC letter template with your information and send it to the manufacturer.
They should have a rep or a office in Australia you can send it to.
The retailer is not responsible for defects with a product, the manufacturer is, this is why the letter is to the manufacturer.

A lot of brands have out of date warranty statements, the act was updated in 2010 to Competition and Consumer Regulations.
The point in the act is section 90 point (2), and the main point the government focuses on is this statement.

"You are also entitled to have the goods repaired or replaced if the goods fail to be of acceptable quality and the failure does not amount to a major failure?." When the government reviews a claim they look at the cost of the item and the excepted lifespan of the item. In your case they would look at other similar products in the industry and the average lifespan of kites before wear and tear repairs are required, which could be up to 3 years or longer if you look after your gear.

The retailer is responsible for not accepting poor warranty returns on behalf of the manufacturer, it can be a long process for a shop to be reimbursed and they have to prove to the manufacturer why they have accepted the return.
The brand I work for see heaps of stupid warranty returns, that could have been easily fixed if the customer had just read the product manual.
But it's important to create a good customer brand relationship so we tend to replace everything, no questions asked.

At this point the battle is with the manufacturer and the retailer, and if the brand wants the shop to continue on selling their product they should be nice.
This also explains why so many brands now sell online direct to the consumer and shops/retailers are going out of business.
At the same time brands don't have the coin to open up there own shops to sell direct to the customer so they rely on the relationship that the shop has with the customer. Look at brands like Sthil or Apple, they used to sell through small retailers and still do but also now they sell direct through their own shops.

It will be interesting in 10 years time when there won't be shops to go to and everything will be online.

Hope this has helped, good luck with your claim.

personally I wouldn't like to be in the kite retail business, especially what ive seen over the years regards kite treatment, youll get you legit claims and youll get newbies who don't know what they are doing, for a retailer or manufacturer to distinguish between the 2 and keep the client happy would be difficult

Hey Steezy, your experience i guess highlights responsibility from manufacturer to dealer whom is the meat in the sandwich, no idea how this works on the supply chain to us , but on a out of the box issue the dealer has just passed it on, not as though a pre delivery service is done.
Having to stick with it for 6 months is not satisfactory, next years model would be close to release. More http's than i can poke a stick.
From what i have gathered a canopy tear you have buckleys, the core with close to strut rip was close to our best rip, started from right on LE and closer to strut.
Can anyone give some insight into mechanics of a rip, eg does a pin hole / nick open up and rip aft or forward generally, a jagged edge on rip stop fabric.
As mentioned in a post here, made a noise and got satisfaction, i think most of our dealers want to see you back, and it should not matter who sold, any brand dealer should be able to take up claim on behalf of purchaser to the manufacturer, including premature canopy failure such as in the first few hours.
On the dealers side here, HTF do they know if there has been an issue with production. I would think the whole kite should have some warrantee, from crispy designed to withstand a few crashes ? nature of the sport.
Premature failure anybody, give it an air and let the brand deal with backlash rather than the middle man. Hinch hunch,,,shame file if thats what it takes,
in my line of work often middle man (service) and make a call on misuse or legit claim, end user satisfaction most times is the outcome, happy to deal again. It does take the support of the brand their product in building loyalty. RobotCoupe just did a claim that i labeled as misuse, good on em, in the middle is not easy,
Who get's favoured when push comes to shove. I'm responsible for the product i deliver every day, yea too much bla bla bla ,if you think a good bla bla will help go bla to the brand, for wot its worth..ha ha..
Let us just keep it to crispy kite failure, may put the builder in place...

The core with the rip through the trailing edge screams out a line wrap, the one not going through the trailing edge suggests pressure from a wave or swell,,

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..

The core with the rip through the trailing edge screams out a line wrap, the one not going through the trailing edge suggests pressure from a wave or swell,,

A rock to be more precise lol, user error to....

Here are some pics of the injured kite. Manufacturer has refused to do anything under warranty, and their warranty T&Cs clearly state that canopy tears aren't covered - so I wasn't really expecting much.

I reiterate that this kite had only flown twice previously, never crashed, and cleaned at pack down/set up. Sandy beaches only.

It probably is just bad luck, but whilst I can't totally rule out a pin-hole, I don't see how Best can totally rule out defective manufacture.

Thanks for all your comments. My thoughts are that, if I put myself through a whole heap of stress I might just get lucky with a warranty claim, but highly unlikely. So I'm packing it off to the sailmaker today and forgetting about it :)

Yikes! has leading edge blown out?

for it to rip like that i dare say there was definitely some solid force behind the impact. If i was the manufacturer i don't think i'd warranty it either.

My guess is you overflew the kite above your head as you jumped. The kite hindenburged and dropped out of the sky for a second before powering back up in the middle of the power zone and slamming LE down.

Was the kite directly downwind of you when you resurfaced?