Cauncy - those exercises look to be the goods but Im having a few problems - I try the one with the stick and rubber thingy and maybe Im not grabbing the stick properly but when hoping to get into that horizontal position I simply fail ?? Please help!!
And as for the ball ones - I simply slide down the page and am now suffering head injuries :-(
Im not sure the exercise injuries are any better than Jenna's experience!! LOL

BTW - yep when I haven't been on the water for a while and have a big boosting session my gut muscles scream - so great advice from above - kite more and maybe warm up - Im not a young gun anymore.

Jenna - I hope you have things sorted and are on the mend :-) Its a long and fun summer ahead !!

Jenna - This is also a very effective stretch for all year round to reduce the soreness in your midsection.

Most people focus on the contraction - the abdominal and psoas flexor..
normally they can pull the board upwards without much effort.
However, it is the Eccentric or downward releasing phase of the board causing 'Hyperextension' that does the most damage.

Lack of stretching causes all your core muscles to shorten in length - so naturally when you finally do something that exceeds your normal range of motion, you get some form of muscle tearing. The smallest fibers are microscopic, so it doesn't take much - just like doing a few hamstring stretches and next day....

Yes you can abdominal crunch all angles all day - this still wont remove it, because its everything that makes up your mid section that gets stretched out of its normal range..

Combined with other exercises - this simple exercise below, can 'reduce' this soreness and speed up recovery - because it puts you into the full range of motion working length. Just by holding the stretch 3 x for 30secs - 1min will increase flexibility quite quickly over a few weeks.. also its good for front n back rolls because you can learn to spot your landing point in the upside down position - most people don't know where they are mid roll.

Other expected benefits can be reduced back pressure and with your legs straight but slightly back further - this will help your psoas stretch your diaphragm, which improves breathing ability - great for asthmatics or the long swim if your kite fails.

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eppo said...
And you would know because you are a ....? Obviously well informed because you know...? You've been kiting for how long....?

My University training was in biomechanics and exercise physiology...you want to play?

Well what's your suggestion then....mr know it all? Although most university educated people I know, are full of theory and no practice.

Contribute something then.

what's your suggestion apart from a throw away line...

1) Kiting does not promote a strong core. You have a harness around your waist which is taking the load. If you have a weak core coming into kiting then kiting will do jack **** for you in terms of strengthening it. It would be near on impossible to brace your core for an hour long session. If you don't believe me get into a bridge position for an hour and see how you go. Building a strong core will certainly improve your kiting like it will any activity but saying it will give you a strong core is just not the case.

2) The muscle that actually cops most of the work while kiting is the psoas muscle and other hip flexor muscles. This is due to the static nature of the muscle movement (particularly on a twin tip) and the engagement of the hip flexors in a static movement. When the psoas muscle fatigues it weakens the joints of the hip, knee and ankle which leads to lower limb injuries. Most kiters I know do not stretch this muscle effectively if at all nor strengthen it and it is what ultimately leads to abdominal pain after a lot of jumping. Particularly when it comes to rotation. You can strengthen your psoas muscle but it requires a combination of at least 6 exercises done regularly to build endurance and strength along with daily stretching.

3) most abdominal pain caused after a big boosting session if from DOMS (Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness). It is still unknown what causes this, but the most widely accepted theory is micro tears in the muscle fibres. Ultimately though it is a sign that your muscle tissue is breaking down and being repaired due to overwork.

3) The reason kiting on a surfboard is very beneficial for those with injuries is that is uses a completely different set of muscles (more gluteous and hamstring engagement) and is less taxing on the psoas muscle. It is less static in nature and more dynamic. The psoas will still get a workout but nowhere to the extent it will on a twin tip.

4) How long I have been kiting has nothing to do with understanding the mechanics of the movement of kiting.

5) Strength or Cardio Endurance (cardio endurance though will help you on a long swim if you need it) training will not make you a better kiter. Technique will. Efficiency of movement will. The only things strength will do is allow you to kite for longer. However, a kiter with good technique, feel and mechanics will outlast someone with a lot of strength any day until Sunday.

6) The best training you can do for kiting is train your core in the right way. Bracing exercises using different planes. Bridges, side bridges, ring holds, lat ladders, roll outs, swiss ball balancing etc etc....static bracing is the best conditioning for kiting and the prevention of injury.

Cool, thanks man.

Your welcome.

Good article kitebt!

Never heard of that psoas sucker before, but makes sense.

Thanks

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Dave Whettingsteel said..
Good article kitebt!

Never heard of that psoas sucker before, but makes sense.

Thanks

Yeh just read some stuff on this important muscle. it does make sense indeed. Going to add some stuff into my routine.

Thanks again.

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kitebt said...

1) Kiting does not promote a strong core. You have a harness around your waist which is taking the load. If you have a weak core coming into kiting then kiting will do jack **** for you in terms of strengthening it. It would be near on impossible to brace your core for an hour long session. If you don't believe me get into a bridge position for an hour and see how you go. Building a strong core will certainly improve your kiting like it will any activity but saying it will give you a strong core is just not the case.

2) The muscle that actually cops most of the work while kiting is the psoas muscle and other hip flexor muscles. This is due to the static nature of the muscle movement (particularly on a twin tip) and the engagement of the hip flexors in a static movement. When the psoas muscle fatigues it weakens the joints of the hip, knee and ankle which leads to lower limb injuries. Most kiters I know do not stretch this muscle effectively if at all nor strengthen it and it is what ultimately leads to abdominal pain after a lot of jumping. Particularly when it comes to rotation. You can strengthen your psoas muscle but it requires a combination of at least 6 exercises done regularly to build endurance and strength along with daily stretching.

3) most abdominal pain caused after a big boosting session if from DOMS (Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness). It is still unknown what causes this, but the most widely accepted theory is micro tears in the muscle fibres. Ultimately though it is a sign that your muscle tissue is breaking down and being repaired due to overwork.

3) The reason kiting on a surfboard is very beneficial for those with injuries is that is uses a completely different set of muscles (more gluteous and hamstring engagement) and is less taxing on the psoas muscle. It is less static in nature and more dynamic. The psoas will still get a workout but nowhere to the extent it will on a twin tip.

4) How long I have been kiting has nothing to do with understanding the mechanics of the movement of kiting.

5) Strength or Cardio Endurance (cardio endurance though will help you on a long swim if you need it) training will not make you a better kiter. Technique will. Efficiency of movement will. The only things strength will do is allow you to kite for longer. However, a kiter with good technique, feel and mechanics will outlast someone with a lot of strength any day until Sunday.

6) The best training you can do for kiting is train your core in the right way. Bracing exercises using different planes. Bridges, side bridges, ring holds, lat ladders, roll outs, swiss ball balancing etc etc....static bracing is the best conditioning for kiting and the prevention of injury.

Fark that ****. I'm going to ride my bike and fly my kites.

Select to expand quote

kitebt said..

1) Kiting does not promote a strong core. You have a harness around your waist which is taking the load. If you have a weak core coming into kiting then kiting will do jack **** for you in terms of strengthening it. It would be near on impossible to brace your core for an hour long session. If you don't believe me get into a bridge position for an hour and see how you go. Building a strong core will certainly improve your kiting like it will any activity but saying it will give you a strong core is just not the case.

2) The muscle that actually cops most of the work while kiting is the psoas muscle and other hip flexor muscles. This is due to the static nature of the muscle movement (particularly on a twin tip) and the engagement of the hip flexors in a static movement. When the psoas muscle fatigues it weakens the joints of the hip, knee and ankle which leads to lower limb injuries. Most kiters I know do not stretch this muscle effectively if at all nor strengthen it and it is what ultimately leads to abdominal pain after a lot of jumping. Particularly when it comes to rotation. You can strengthen your psoas muscle but it requires a combination of at least 6 exercises done regularly to build endurance and strength along with daily stretching.

3) most abdominal pain caused after a big boosting session if from DOMS (Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness). It is still unknown what causes this, but the most widely accepted theory is micro tears in the muscle fibres. Ultimately though it is a sign that your muscle tissue is breaking down and being repaired due to overwork.

3) The reason kiting on a surfboard is very beneficial for those with injuries is that is uses a completely different set of muscles (more gluteous and hamstring engagement) and is less taxing on the psoas muscle. It is less static in nature and more dynamic. The psoas will still get a workout but nowhere to the extent it will on a twin tip.

4) How long I have been kiting has nothing to do with understanding the mechanics of the movement of kiting.

5) Strength or Cardio Endurance (cardio endurance though will help you on a long swim if you need it) training will not make you a better kiter. Technique will. Efficiency of movement will. The only things strength will do is allow you to kite for longer. However, a kiter with good technique, feel and mechanics will outlast someone with a lot of strength any day until Sunday.

6) The best training you can do for kiting is train your core in the right way. Bracing exercises using different planes. Bridges, side bridges, ring holds, lat ladders, roll outs, swiss ball balancing etc etc....static bracing is the best conditioning for kiting and the prevention of injury.

shouldn't this be items 1-7?



great info though!

Smarty pants! 2 x 3) is ok by me

KiteBT - lol how is it that we had to write it out twice, exactly the same thing

Oneday someome will tell them about spinal deformation...

Well now...... ARNICA ARNICA ARNICA..... after every major session I rub that stuff all over My sore parts. I landed elbow to the ground on Tuesday night and my head rolled around my shoulder to the point of hearing a big crack (even over my ear phones in on full volume playing some crappy 90s music)
Bang arnica on it that night wham bam and ready to go by next arvo. They do one that can be ingested also I just use he cream and think it's the ducks nutts :-)

Dude - due to lack of kitesurfing and Death... Arnica is not recommended to be taken orally.. only as a "Topical" skin cream !

PRESCRIBED FOR: Arnica Montana is used for temporary pain relief, muscle aches, stiffness, bruising, and swelling.

SIDE EFFECTS: Arnica should not be applied to open wounds or mucous membranes. Arnica also may give mild odor when applied. Undiluted oral forms are considered unsafe and have been reported to cause the following side effects:

cardiac arrest,
fast heart beat,
shortness of breath,
stomach pain,
diarrhea, and
vomiting.
Pure arnica is considered an unsafe herb by the FDA.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..

kitebt said...

1) Kiting does not promote a strong core. You have a harness around your waist which is taking the load. If you have a weak core coming into kiting then kiting will do jack **** for you in terms of strengthening it. It would be near on impossible to brace your core for an hour long session. If you don't believe me get into a bridge position for an hour and see how you go. Building a strong core will certainly improve your kiting like it will any activity but saying it will give you a strong core is just not the case.

2) The muscle that actually cops most of the work while kiting is the psoas muscle and other hip flexor muscles. This is due to the static nature of the muscle movement (particularly on a twin tip) and the engagement of the hip flexors in a static movement. When the psoas muscle fatigues it weakens the joints of the hip, knee and ankle which leads to lower limb injuries. Most kiters I know do not stretch this muscle effectively if at all nor strengthen it and it is what ultimately leads to abdominal pain after a lot of jumping. Particularly when it comes to rotation. You can strengthen your psoas muscle but it requires a combination of at least 6 exercises done regularly to build endurance and strength along with daily stretching.

3) most abdominal pain caused after a big boosting session if from DOMS (Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness). It is still unknown what causes this, but the most widely accepted theory is micro tears in the muscle fibres. Ultimately though it is a sign that your muscle tissue is breaking down and being repaired due to overwork.

3) The reason kiting on a surfboard is very beneficial for those with injuries is that is uses a completely different set of muscles (more gluteous and hamstring engagement) and is less taxing on the psoas muscle. It is less static in nature and more dynamic. The psoas will still get a workout but nowhere to the extent it will on a twin tip.

4) How long I have been kiting has nothing to do with understanding the mechanics of the movement of kiting.

5) Strength or Cardio Endurance (cardio endurance though will help you on a long swim if you need it) training will not make you a better kiter. Technique will. Efficiency of movement will. The only things strength will do is allow you to kite for longer. However, a kiter with good technique, feel and mechanics will outlast someone with a lot of strength any day until Sunday.

6) The best training you can do for kiting is train your core in the right way. Bracing exercises using different planes. Bridges, side bridges, ring holds, lat ladders, roll outs, swiss ball balancing etc etc....static bracing is the best conditioning for kiting and the prevention of injury.

Fark that ****. I'm going to ride my bike and fly my kites.

Most importantly Eppo add at least 4-6 different psoas stretches to your routine both pre and post session and also every day. Stretching does not shorten the cycle of recovery from DOMS which is another myth perpetuated from uninformed Personal Trainers but given the workout this muscle and surrounding fascia and tissue gets in a session it will increase your kiting longevity and help you prevent injury....also during your session in those moments when you are relaxed and out of the zone give you body a verbal que to brace your core. It will help switch on those other muscles that will support the psoas and assist it in its work.

Select to expand quote

kitebt said..

Plummet said..

kitebt said...

Stretching does not shorten the cycle of recovery from DOMS which is another myth perpetuated from uninformed Personal Trainers

Well I guess you really have to explain in Laymans terms about stretching that effectively Does reduce recovery time...

Victim Kiter 1:

No flexibility training off season first outing of the season - tears ab muscle from Hyperextension initiaited during jump take off from water
(every action has an equall and opposite reaction - that Newton bloke - the kiters midsection is stretched between the difference of directed energies )

a tear lets say for example 10cm long..

Victim Kiter 2:

Does flexibility training off season - tears minimal tissue from a coordinated nerve / fibre initiation from correct training..

a tear say 3cm long


Can anyone guess who will recover faster from Doms (delayed onset of soreness) from their stretch and exercise regime or lack of..

cause and effect

Sorry Save the Whales there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support that stretching makes recovery from DOMS faster. If you have a scientific article that proves otherwise I would love to see it.

Hmmm Kitebt

Very early into my qualification training, research and the teaching, spanning 25 odd years. I threw most of my study books, manuals into the rubbish, ignored lots of rubbish learnt at lectures world wide !
The reason being, that I was taking peoples money because of "Letters" beside my name and achieving pretty much nothing in the way of "Real" re-hab for special patients that were outside of that cosy little box - that everyone loves to work in..

Like D.O.M.S, I came across a strange phenomenon among Professionals called 'Inflexible Knowledge'. Cognitive science shows us that when new material is first learned, the mind is biased to remember things in concrete forms that are difficult to apply to new situations.

The bias seems best overcome by the accumulation of a 'greater store of related knowledge', facts, and examples. If I had a dollar for every person i've met with Professional inflexible knowledge - I'd be a millionaire.

To my Out of the box flexible thinking credit also includes developing a Program for Reactivating nerve triggers in Multiple sclerosis patients through fooling the nervous system to fire in the Reverse of Proprioceptive Neuromuscular Facilitated stretches.. thereby increasing capable lift range by 80% Range of motion where there was previously No muscular response.
As deemed by "Inflexibile Knowledge" experts as impossible.

Hmm both types of people - suffering from the same symtoms !

As I questioned previously above about Real World victims 1 & 2, its a professionals jobs to provide 'Useable' basic information that connects to people, helping them move forward with a better safer understanding of their chosen exercise to prevent further injury !

Next time please try not to copy what Ive already posted - just add to it... your meant to be a Professional !

Your awfully defensive... I completely agree with you that maintaining flexibility aids recovery. I was simply making the point that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that stretching speeds up recovery from DOMS. I hear this all the time with so called fitness experts and there is no scientific evidence to substantiate it.

There's enough Wannabee Muppets on this forum thats why things need to be kept in Perspective...

The context in which you write things on this forum can be 'dissected' and taken for the truth - the 'Drivel' factor you commented on was correct and obviously shows this to be true.

From experience and a great many useless debates about doms... the outcome universally was - as in your above post. That people would read about doms, Not understand it... and just take away that stretching is a proven scientific waste of time - period, because Kitebt with a few "letters' in front of his name said so!

Also out of context to do with Doms - they did actually find that recovery was faster from doms in a flexible trained athlete compared to Joe Public.

What your referring to, is the Doms study of two subjects of the exact same physical makeup with similar amounts of Type A & B muscle fibres.

Look it up in the study at the renowned 'American College of Sports Medicine' .

You are mincing words now and still being awfully defensive I don't understand your defensive posture at all? I never said anywhere that stretching was a wastes of time in fact I said the exact opposite. You seem to have a pretty big chip on your shoulder for some reason.

What part about doms and stretching and joe public dont you get ?

I actually get all of it. What I don't get are you ramblings. You are making yourself look silly.

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kitebt said...
I love all the Doctors, Physios and Exercise Scientists on this forum. I have never read more uninformed drivel in my life.

All the above I've seen inc neurological surgeons , chiros, massage, sports massage, bla bla bla
Then got a good physio, kept things simple and targeted my core, I'm generally in good condition with my lower back during kiting season, it's when that stops I suffer, I've put it down to me not getting a good workout and keeping everything trim, a large volume of our winds are in the overpowered regions, I cycle a lot, I used to box at a high level and have always maintained a good level of fitness especially when I was in the forces, but a big wind day is up there on levels of fatigue, so to say it isn't taxing on the body imho isn't correct also some kiters just cruise others are more or a lot more aggressive, kit choices can increase the levels of fitness reqd, water conditions too, interesting that core strength is always mentioned in kiting segments and is always targeted by kiting athletes, for me none of the expert did a thing in improving my injury , spent literally $1000s of dollars some at $700 for a 30 min chat
In fact it was a $50 appointment which has put me on a almost injury free couple of years

Set things straight Eppo..

Please we all need your validation... wait, no we don't.
Bucket of KFC will do!

Exactly the point thats being made here...You are strengthening your core and I dare say doing the right stretches away from the water which will improve your kiting. Its not kiting that is improving your core its the right conditioning you are doing in order to kite that is.

Further to add nearly all the so called experts looked low on fitness levels or looked physically in good shape apart from the guy who has helped me , imho a large amount of these so called experts don't practice what they preach
Also no matter what the science , research, and books say for some me included certain exercises, treatment ,stretches and activities can aggravate injury, I'm no expert but I've lived for close to 30 years with my condition and certain thing work and some hurt
But f---k kiting ,it's good for your soul

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kitebt said..
I actually get all of it. What I don't get are you ramblings. You are making yourself look silly.

Then you should have got the Professional point of not telling people that post exercise stretching doesnt work according to Scientific Doms study idiot.
Everyone in the industry knows how many thousands of people will take it for real - because its an easy way out.

Yes definitely an inflexible learnt curve showing you've not opened your mind to yet - I stopped lining my pockets years ago..

1900 odd read views on this posted topic to date - keep it real and dont set people up for the fall - you know how most specialists love to bleed their patients dry of money.

Ps:

I dont mind looking silly, my Multiple Sclerosis research had many specialists pulling their head out of their ass - when I fronted with their ex-patients very happy - after 'Industry' told them nothing can be done - bled dry...

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SaveTheWhales said..

kitebt said..
I actually get all of it. What I don't get are you ramblings. You are making yourself look silly.

Then you should have got the Professional point of not telling people that post exercise stretching doesnt work according to Scientific Doms study idiot.
Everyone in the industry knows how many thousands of people will take it for real - because its an easy way out.

Yes definitely an inflexible learnt curve showing you've not opened your mind to yet - I stopped lining my pockets years ago..

1900 odd read views on this posted topic to date - keep it real and dont set people up for the fall - you know how most specialists love to bleed their patients dry of money.

Ps:

I dont mind looking silly, my Multiple Sclerosis research had many specialists pulling their head out of their ass - when I fronted with their ex-patients very happy - after 'Industry' told them nothing can be done - bled dry...

So it is now clear that you can't read, let alone comprehend the English Language...I never said post exercise stretching doesn't work. I have only referred to DOMS as a condition that stretching will not speed up the recovery rate for. Current scientific fact that you are yet to provide any contrary evidence for.

In reading your replies I doubt you actually know what DOMS is from a scientific perspective....i.e. what actually happens, what the current theory is and why the studies have concluded that stretching will not speed recovery from it. Your article sites a 3cm tear in the muscle as DOMS. Thats not DOMS thats a muscle tear.

The other thing that you have grossly misled the readers on this forum about is providing a single stretch for the psoas and hip flexor muscles. Anyone who has studied anatomy and actually understands human movement knows that there at least 6 stretches with three different kind of stretching techniques that need to be done in a particular order to release and untangle that muscle let alone the other muscles the make up the hip flexors and hamstrings. Yet your solution is a back bend on a swiss ball. Are you ****ting me! The reason I wrote something on this forum in the first place is because your information was complete BS and prescriptive which you possibly could not provide any kind of "duty of care" to those people reading it.

The other complete load of BS you tried to hoodwink people with on this forum is in relation to the "American College of Sports Medicine" this is an industry association. They do not conduct research or publish studies. They provide research grants. Universities such as Stanford, MIT, etc....conduct the research they publish. They are no more prestigious than any other Industry Association.

I would love to read the studies you have published on Multiple Sclerosis...if you could post them or send them to me that would be great I am genuinely interested. I just hope they actually follow some form of scientific process such as a control group, a proper hypothesis and well thought out experiments. Anything short of that I would say is just BS. You talk about opening my mind. Yet your comments are the ones of a complete narcissist who thinks anyone with a degree and actual qualifications has nothing to offer.

I don't make a cent from charging people for my advice.I don't need to. I left this industry years ago because of people like yourself who pawn themselves off as specialists in an area when they have taken the easy way to get there and are not actually qualified to comment on human movement and sports performance because they are not specialists in that area. Just like I am unwilling to comment on MS and other neurological diseases.

I simply posted a short article which quite frankly seemed to break things down for people in a helpful way as per their replies unlike yours.

How much do you charge for a consultation?

You made a point that there a lot of muppets on this forum (clearly another demonstration of your narcissism). You may want to look in the mirror Kermit.