After 10+ years of windsurfing, I'm now considering a switch to kitesurfing. I've got kids now and we go camping a fair bit and it's a pain in the arse taking 2 boards and 3 sails etc especially if the wind doesn't kick in, I'd also like to sail after work, easier with kitesurfing gear. So I've got a few questions:

1. Obviously do a course, but how long does it need to be? 2 - 3 days? I'm a competent windsurfer, surfer, snowboarder, wakeboarder and have flown a trainer kite. Also had a few body drag lessons from a mate.

2. Any recommendations for schools? Im in WA near Joondalup.

3. What's the go with Kite technology? I understand that there were significant improvements in safety and control of kites in recent years, should I be only looking for kites made after 2014 or with certain features?

4. Is it better to go new for Kites? I wouldn't have a clue what to look for if buying 2nd hand.

5. Boards - I guess I'd start on flat water, but would want to progress to the waves pretty quick, what do most guys ride in the waves or what is better in the waves? I've seen all sorts, surfboards, kiteboards, strapless boards..

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windyjim said..
After 10+ years of windsurfing, I'm now considering a switch to kitesurfing. I've got kids now and we go camping a fair bit and it's a pain in the arse taking 2 boards and 3 sails etc especially if the wind doesn't kick in, I'd also like to sail after work, easier with kitesurfing gear. So I've got a few questions:

1. Obviously do a course, but how long does it need to be? 2 - 3 days? I'm a competent windsurfer, surfer, snowboarder, wakeboarder and have flown a trainer kite. Also had a few body drag lessons from a mate.

2. Any recommendations for schools? Im in WA near Joondalup.

3. What's the go with Kite technology? I understand that there were significant improvements in safety and control of kites in recent years, should I be only looking for kites made after 2014 or with certain features?

4. Is it better to go new for Kites? I wouldn't have a clue what to look for if buying 2nd hand.

5. Boards - I guess I'd start on flat water, but would want to progress to the waves pretty quick, what do most guys ride in the waves or what is better in the waves? I've seen all sorts, surfboards, kiteboards, strapless boards..

3hrs for you...
Action sports near you....allthough gero corosand shoalwater are nice safe spots
2012 on my vote...really its the barlines and safety and releases and powerdepower system on them that will affect you at this stage...easier.lighter.etc
You can...just costs alot.just ask someone.2014 with barlines are 500.2012 300
Twintip is unidilateral (correct word?)..initially.i, e left right. Surfboard is not ie. One point.takes practice.cant go bothways on it.have to turn it...toeside etc...surfboard with straps initially (my vote) .so go twintip first ..then in two mnths get a kite surfboard like north(or just go immediately strapless on a surfboard..good luck with that :-)

P.s dont blame you...gear definitely seems lighter and heaps more simple. One kite could do seven days a week ! :-)

1. It wouldn't take you long - you would only need a session or two with the instructor to learn the safety stuff then you could probably go at it alone trying to learn how to get up after being shown a few times.

2. No ideas for schools sorry.

3. Anything after 2012 is pretty good, I would try and get a 2015 as they're probably a lot cheaper now and not really that old - if you're wanting to get in the waves look for an Ozone Reo or North Neo or a BWS kite, great beginner kites and also good wave kites so they should last you awhile. With the Ozone Reo's buy the 2015 years one or above, the kite before that don't fly as well.

4. No need to buy a new kite really...

5. Everyone starts on a twin tip, once you get up and going just buy a 5'8" - 6ft surfboard and learn on that. Once you get the hang of that you'll have a good idea of what to get when you want to buy a kite specific board.

Just a minute. I think yourve seen the light and ditching the dark side. Ps it won't take you 3hrs to learn. Allow at least 6months to a year to be going upwind and maybe punting a few jumps.

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Plummet said..
Just a minute. I think yourve seen the light and ditching the dark side. Ps it won't take you 3hrs to learn. Allow at least 6months to a year to be going upwind and maybe punting a few jumps.

Blah
upwind takes 2-3 sessions max

if you can already bodydrag then you would only need lessons for deep water pack down and some other essential safety stuff, the rest you just learn as you go

have fun

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Plummet said..
Just a minute. I think yourve seen the light and ditching the dark side. Ps it won't take you 3hrs to learn. Allow at least 6months to a year to be going upwind and maybe punting a few jumps.

that is ridiculous, spot the unco.
Only if you're severely lacking in board sport experience would it take that long. A competent board rider is going upwind in their final lesson or within a week afterward.

1. Obviously do a course, 4 hour course.
2. dunno

3. if you can afford a new kite do it. otherwise look for a 2015/2016. you want a good condition bar and lines. should be $1000 for a 2015 North neo/ Ozone reo which will be perfect for waves later.

4. Is it better to go new for Kites? I wouldn't have a clue what to look for if buying 2nd hand. Go new if you can. will last 5+ years or more. the bar and lines wear out before the kite i find. they are $450 to replace!

5. Boards - always start on a twin tip. you can ride in either direction and is a skill you need to master. do it for 6 months. then a second hand surfboard (shortboard) is the best i reckon. Buy the size a surf pro of your height/weight would ride is the key.

A course is just for learning safety and setup. The rest is just practice, practice, practice.

You could pay someone to supervise you and offer technique tips while you're practicing, but that would be a bit of a waste.

The most important thing to know is that at first you will be crap and you won't know why. It's just that you're learning a whole heap of new skills. It takes time for your body to learn the feel of what is happening. Don't worry about it. Keep practicing.

I would get advice from other kiter friends about second hand kites. You are going to be hard on your gear in the first year or two, quality second hand gear one or two years old is best, especially the bar which is critical and won't mean much to you until you have some time on your gear.
As far as the upwind comment by a previous poster, no way. Not with your knowledge and experience. Once you get up on your board with consistency and ride both ways you will march upwind easily. Start with a 140 or 142 board, you will most likely ditch it in a year or so. This will teach you different maneuvers and get you up in the air.
Most important is the self rescue and pack down if needed. I still can't believe how many people at my local don't know how to do this or never have done so even to practice, though they don't push any limits and are happy mowing the lawn.
Go out in 15 to 20 knots as this is the perfect wind to learn and gain confidence.
Have fun.

I was (am?) a longtime windsurfer/surfer/etc. Felt the pull of the darkside back in 2002. Had a North Rhino 2 that almost killed me. Retreated back to windsurfing until 2010, when I decided to give it another go. The gear was like a whole new world. Sold the last of the windsurf gear in 2012 (though I do miss it in 30+knots and side-off waves, but how often does that really come together?)
I think it took me two sessions to learn to stay upwind after sitting in on a lesson a mate was teaching. I then taught my windsurfing mate, he too was up and riding in a couple of sessions. I'm not at all recommending dropping lessons, but as others have said, it's mostly for safety (though easy, kiting is more potentially deadly than windsurfing). That said go get a cheap post-2012 kite and a twintip, you'll be up and riding in no time!

Thanks for all the replies/info.
Something that I've always wondered is what happens when you wipe out on a wave with a kite. I've never actually seen anyone do that. I would have thought the kite would become a big tangled mess?? I can see how kiting in average size waves would be fun, but on big stuff the potential for a disaster is high, is that right?

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windyjim said..
Thanks for all the replies/info.
Something that I've always wondered is what happens when you wipe out on a wave with a kite. I've never actually seen anyone do that. I would have thought the kite would become a big tangled mess?? I can see how kiting in average size waves would be fun, but on big stuff the potential for a disaster is high, is that right?

yup.....recent death on those hells gate geraldton. Yes safety...find it on youtube to get an idea.in that situation type 'kite self rescue raft'...if poss you lockoff and wind lines up get on kite use it as a raft to steer yourself home.
Golden rule is to kind of ##never## drop the kite.'kite will get you home'...is my favourite quote.however...you will
In that situation thats where a knife(hidden in harness) could come in handy.....and thats why in lessons you are given a rundown of releases on bar lines which are meant to assist you in those situations....
Theres a general release on barlines then it supposedly drifts on amother leash on one of the middle lines which depowers it/flags it out enabling you to swim up woll up barlines and raft it in....this isnt allways the case however...

I am kiting 3 years - hardly ever drop my kite in the water and only when I try to learn some new stuff. I fall a lot, but the kite stays up, it becomes a second nature to feel where the kite is without looking at it.

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Swavek said..
I am kiting 3 years - hardly ever drop my kite in the water and only when I try to learn some new stuff. I fall a lot, but the kite stays up, it becomes a second nature to feel where the kite is without looking at it.

Exactly. Windyjim thats when you have it nailed....
Perfect words...

Seems like around here the windsurfers mostly stand around moaning about it not being windy enough, while the kiters rip it up in 12-20kt. I think windsurfing is pretty rad on its day, but its day doesn't come often enough in most spots. And light wind windsurfing? meh....can have way more fun with a kite than standing there slogging.

Agree with most of above. Post 2012 is a good target for kites. My recommendation is to go used and fairly cheap to start, you will likely trash them learning. Then invest once competent. Go for a beginner kite...see what the schools use. "Surf" kites like BWS tend to be good for learning too, as they drift back....meaning they are really user friendly to fly, versus more tempermental kites.

But don't cheap out on bar and lines....you want perfect lines, no knots or frays, breaking a line is where things go sour. As well, all safety systems working in good order

Harness with a knife for sure. Also suggest wearing a floaty impact vest at least while learning (and I sewed in a knife at chest level...friend got hogtied, harness turned, couldn't reach his harness knife, yikes).

Kite in surf: if you crash kite, get it flying ASAP. If you can't relaunch and a significant wave is going to hit it, most kiters punch out ... wave crashing on kite with your weight behind it can shred your kite. Ride your board in, you'll probably beat the kite to the beach. (some kiters don't wear leashes for this...one punch out and separated from kite). #1 rule: stay away from your lines in the surf, ideally stay upwind of them.

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Rails said..

Plummet said..
Just a minute. I think yourve seen the light and ditching the dark side. Ps it won't take you 3hrs to learn. Allow at least 6months to a year to be going upwind and maybe punting a few jumps.

Blah
upwind takes 2-3 sessions max

if you can already bodydrag then you would only need lessons for deep water pack down and some other essential safety stuff, the rest you just learn as you go

have fun

I agree that it's possible to manage to not do a walk of shame within 3 sessions In ideal conditions. But you are far from being proficient with the ability to rip around in a variety of conditions.

Mosr beginners think they can ace kiteboarding in a few sessions and wonder why they are taking so long to become proficient.

My advice is not to expect to be ripping for months. Then you won't be disappointed when you aren't ripping.

also leave your pole dancing equipment at home. Dedicate to the learning process.

Being a poley once for many a years I take great delight ripping it up and boosting as they struggle @15 knots. . . . . . . . Then chasing them across the sound. . . . . Buy right with first kite like an ozone catalyst etc with good depower with good tuition on safety. . . . . U won't look back

I made the transition a number of years ago, the main reason being I could get to the beach on my push bike. Otherwise I was waiting at home for a car to borrow.

One mistake I kept making. When you are trying to get up on a sailboard or trying to stop yourself going backward into the water; you pull down on your back hand and try to lift yourself back up. On a kiteboard this makes you fly like super-man. Best to keep telling yourself to relax ; and just start again.

It took me half a season to become proficient, good luck.

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Rails said..

Plummet said..
Just a minute. I think yourve seen the light and ditching the dark side. Ps it won't take you 3hrs to learn. Allow at least 6months to a year to be going upwind and maybe punting a few jumps.

Blah
upwind takes 2-3 sessions max

if you can already bodydrag then you would only need lessons for deep water pack down and some other essential safety stuff, the rest you just learn as you go

have fun

Agree with this. Took me no time at all making the switch.

You'll be doing sliding turns in a few sessions as well. It's a very easy sport in a way. With a dangerous "could go wrong" aspect to it. But safety is pretty good now.

My mate bought a kite 2nd hand and had all sorts of problems with the bladder. The plugs were glued on and the glue melted in the heat?? I was a bit surprised in the archaic technology. Has technology improved with the bladders I.e no longer using glue. Think his kite was an Ozone, a few years old.

sorry, I have hundreds of random questions!

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windyjim said..
My mate bought a kite 2nd hand and had all sorts of problems with the bladder. The plugs were glued on and the glue melted in the heat?? I was a bit surprised in the archaic technology. Has technology improved with the bladders I.e no longer using glue. Think his kite was an Ozone, a few years old.

sorry, I have hundreds of random questions!

Then don't bother with an 'old' kite. Only get one from 2015 or 2016 anyway, because after four years, max, we tend to ditch 'em to get the stoke of a new kite, it's upwind ability before it stretches, and to take advantage of new technology and design. Good move away from windsurfing - if only for the few bits if gear you will need, and the ability to stroll to a beach with just a backpack and board under your arm. You'll also get more days on the water . Recommended you call Kitebase Dave for lessons. He windsurfs too, so it won't be a great cultural leap. As for board, it's TT for you for about a year (you'll spend six months freaking with a big grin when you learn to jump) before getting a directional. Make sure your first directional is wide, about 20"-21", as this makes it stable and easier for you to learn to move your feet. An old surfboard off Gumtree, with a bit of extra glass on the deck, will do in case you ruin it. I bought a 22"-wide one for $50, it lasted a dozen session before snapping, by which time I was able to carve gybe, and bought something new, modern and fast turning. If your'e goofy, you've got it made in WA. The kite actually holds you up when you do your gybes. Go strapless to learn. You're standing most of the time anyway, which is very easy on the knees and calves, and not hooked-in to straps as if you would be hunkered down on a windsurfer or TT. Most of the dramas experienced by kite learners are from the chest harness having a higher centre of gravity, and they get yanked over all the time. Use a seat harness until you are bored of it. And yes, people do get wiped out in waves, but by the time you have go to that point you'll know where NOT to go to expose yourself to most of that threat. Oh, and remember;

A) point the board a bit downwind, about it's width and half, or more, just as you swing the kite in the power zone when water starting.
B) Get you arse in, your back leg bent and you front one straight to avoid looking like a bell-end with the poo stance. Your ex-poley mates will be mirthless otherwise

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windyjim said..
My mate bought a kite 2nd hand and had all sorts of problems with the bladder. The plugs were glued on and the glue melted in the heat?? I was a bit surprised in the archaic technology. Has technology improved with the bladders I.e no longer using glue. Think his kite was an Ozone, a few years old.

sorry, I have hundreds of random questions!

Hence 2012 on if poss...or through a shop as seconds.i bet . You have.go talk to a really experi3nced kiter like cbulota

Buy a new waist harness that youve tried on and comfortable with. If your on a budget buy a second hand kite 2010 onwards that is sized to get you on the water the most at your local area. Get a twin tip that isnt too ancient as some were pigs and will slow your progression. ensure your comfortable tracking toeside on your twin tip before moving to surfboard. Straps on a surfboard are not required to learn on. Its a preference. If you come from a surfing background id say dont bother with straps. Not needed and restrict foot positioning (unless you plan to drop yourself into 20 ft jaws. However alot of winsurfers like the straps for chop jumping and big airs which can be done strapless but takes practise.
Practise and figure out along the way what you like and want to do and gear up from there. Youll end up with 2 or three kites to satisfy your stoke. Warning: dont treat your surfboards like youre windsurfer board.

One more thing. Like any sport your progression will only be as good as your commitment. Its important you get out as much as you can especially untill your tracking up wind. If you go out once a month your progression will suck arse and youll get frustrated

The "I just never crash my kite." comments are massive BS. Kites crash. Even experts crash kites. It might not happen often but it does happen. It usually happens to me by some stray oops (so busy doing something I don't notice the tip has kissed the water and snagged), or some minor technique error doing whatever.

It's not a problem. Deal with it.

Same goes for dropping a kite in big surf. It's usually not a problem. Just deal with it. It's not automatic that you will get rolled and tied up in your lines. 9 times out of 10 the kite will actually pull you out of whatever sketchy situation you're in.

The key to kiting safety, and all other adventure sports safety, is to keep your head, avoid doing stupidly dumb things, and deal with whatever happens. You did that windsurfing. You'll do the same kiting. In some ways there's more to deal with in kiting (lines and crashing kites). In some ways kiting is easier because you can self rescue and the kite helps you in all sorts of ways.

Hey Windyjim
By now you have more advise than you probably know what to do with. So I will add something that no-one else has mentioned but helped me a lot. Learn with a friend... you will get dragged around, fail to control your kite, start to think there is something wrong with you, hell little kids can do it- WHY AM I FINDING IT IMPOSSIBLE?
Having the support and the peer pressure of someone at the same level is brilliant especially when you start to think it is not worth it. Plus you can see that they are a big kook just like you and they will share the stoke when you do your first transition, jump half a metre or ride toeside. Tell that to your experienced friends and they will make you their kite b1tch.

From one windsurfer to another:





Just sayn'

I'll have your gear windyjim, whatchya got?

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Subsonic said..
From one windsurfer to another:





Just sayn'

Let's not be homophobic. There would be some people on this forum who would find that more attractive than a woman doing the same thing Most of them are in the windsurfing forum though.

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Gorgo said..
The "I just never crash my kite." comments are massive BS. Kites crash. Even experts crash kites. It might not happen often but it does happen. It usually happens to me by some stray oops (so busy doing something I don't notice the tip has kissed the water and snagged), or some minor technique error doing whatever.

It's not a problem. Deal with it.

Same goes for dropping a kite in big surf. It's usually not a problem. Just deal with it. It's not automatic that you will get rolled and tied up in your lines. 9 times out of 10 the kite will actually pull you out of whatever sketchy situation you're in.

The key to kiting safety, and all other adventure sports safety, is to keep your head, avoid doing stupidly dumb things, and deal with whatever happens. You did that windsurfing. You'll do the same kiting. In some ways there's more to deal with in kiting (lines and crashing kites). In some ways kiting is easier because you can self rescue and the kite helps you in all sorts of ways.

Ok
Does that mean I can crash my kite again? Havent done it for two years
Ok..thanks for that will give it a shot guess i will need the relaunch experience again
Hahah

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windyjim said..
Thanks for all the replies/info.
Something that I've always wondered is what happens when you wipe out on a wave with a kite. I've never actually seen anyone do that. I would have thought the kite would become a big tangled mess?? I can see how kiting in average size waves would be fun, but on big stuff the potential for a disaster is high, is that right?

You can ruin your kite for sure, but my rule is always know where your kite is. Try your best to keep it at 12 and if it hits the water punch out (quick release) before a wave hits it. Thats takes pressure off the kite and minimizes the damage.
Take the advise about spending bigger on gear mate. This is the time of year I am swamped with noobs buying second hand junk and wondering why it doesn't pump up or fly right. Then getting upset that it will cost so much to fix. Its always sad to see.