www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/safety-rules/rules-regulations/know-the-rules.html



I'm aware of 2 circumstances yesterday where kiters did not respect the SLS and NSW maritime rules regarding kiting in the flagged area. There is no excuse for it if you live in Australia, everyone should know the rules, between the red/yellow flags no vessels or surfcraft, and the buffer zone extends 60M either side of the red/yellow flags too.
The clubbies I spoke to don't worry too much about the 500M rule on open ocean beaches, and say that 300m is ok by them, but basically if you are doing downwinders look for flags and got out past the surf line and go around them giving at least 60m clearance either side of the flags. Nippers programs start in a couple of weeks, but weekend patrols (flagging and monitoring of swimming areas) started on all beaches in NSW yesterday.

Penalties can be harsh, and can include bans on kiting in your local area, as well as heavy fines and loss of gear.

And these too

Great post and a good reminders for the season ahead.

Unfortunately the ones who usually need to be educated about these things aren't even aware of the existence of this Forum. IMO the best ways to have a true impact are to:

1-Educate kiters at fault on the spot. Go talk to them and encourage other local kiters in your area to do the same. If only a handful of local kiters systematically do this at each kite spot on an ongoing basis, the message will get across.

2-Improve the teaching standards in the schools. If you surveyed students coming out of lessons across the country you would find out that at least half of them are completely unaware of such basic things like regulations and right of way rules. This is completely unacceptable and the sad part is by not taking any actions we are actually allowing this to happen. I have already suggested to KA that an anonymous survey be sent to all students coming out of lessons all around Australia so we can collect some info about the students basic knowledge (regulations, wind and weather, safety, right of way rules, etc.) and basic competency (kite setup/terminology, launching and landing, self-rescue, board recovery, etc.). I even provided a simple 10 question Online survey for this.

The image rwtaaffe shared is part of my Online Program. I found this poster on a French kite association website and translated it to share it with my students. A basic universal online program could be provided free of charge to all students signing up for lessons across Australia and IMO should also be mandatory. I also offered my help to KA to build a 100% Australian-made program with basic info and videos instead of borrowing and sharing info and videos from other countries.

Improving teaching standards and setting basic knowledge and competency standards is no small task but with some smart moves and with the help of technology, we can slowly start to make a difference.

Christian

I think in this case, folks knew but may have"been caught up in the moment" and pushed the limits. Iv been seeing a bit of this at currumbin lately too. hopefully it get better soon or they WILL DEFINITELY ban us there! so many beginners, and students in amongst kids as well as experienced seasoned kiters performing high level tricks meters up wind of swimmers. Even witnessed one person continually passing between a dad and son, 1 Meter away. We are our own worst enemy at times.

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Adam'KiteRepair said..
I think in this case, folks knew but may have"been caught up in the moment" and pushed the limits. Iv been seeing a bit of this at currumbin lately too. hopefully it get better soon or they WILL DEFINITELY ban us there! so many beginners, and students in amongst kids as well as experienced seasoned kiters performing high level tricks meters up wind of swimmers. Even witnessed one person continually passing between a dad and son, 1 Meter away. We are our own worst enemy at times.

Yes agree , last time i was there and allso up at Main Beach saw similar, had a discussion with them once on the beach , same response as always ,what do you know you old pr---
After 17 years of kiting in and around aus and overseas , same everywhere, show ponies that think because they can do some tricks they are allowed to break the rules and most times are just visitors to the spots and dont care if it ends up banned

Should be like the old days when i surfed if you broke the rules on a break ,the locals would sort you out , if you didn't comply well , they certainly didn't do it again , its sad to say that it is inevitable that we loose some good kite surfing spots(and i mean Surfing not freestyle in the waves) all around Aus because of the lack of respect from some of these up and coming world champions .

Great thread.
Could we also have signs plastered at beaches for the average beach walker, that thinks fishing, swimming, brushing past kite surfers, and letting their mutts chase us down the water line - is a good idea, to simply don't!?

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NorthernKitesAUS said..
Great thread.
Could we also have signs plastered at beaches for the average beach walker, that thinks fishing, swimming, brushing past kite surfers, and letting their mutts chase us down the water line - is a good idea, to simply don't!?

Dogs love a good run, I love taking them for a good run, they love it too

I gave a local Rhodesian ridgeback a good workout last week, owner reckons it never moved all day afterwards



My old mate Sam gets buggered

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rwtaaffe said..
And these too

Point number 4 is the one see people not following the most. Mainly TT riders in the surf.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to bail out of a wave as someone was forcing the usual starboard right of way

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nikmcc said..

rwtaaffe said..
And these too

Point number 4 is the one see people not following the most. Mainly TT riders in the surf.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to bail out of a wave as someone was forcing the usual starboard right of way

I'd ask maritime safety what rules apply for clarification on this topic.
Someone on a wave has right of way over a starboard vessel?

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Fly on da wall said..

nikmcc said..

rwtaaffe said..
And these too

Point number 4 is the one see people not following the most. Mainly TT riders in the surf.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to bail out of a wave as someone was forcing the usual starboard right of way

I'd ask maritime safety what rules apply for clarification on this topic.
Someone on a wave has right of way over a starboard vessel?

I'd say this one is not so much an actual rule but more of a surf etiquette thing

No people
No flags
No worries

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nikmcc said..

Fly on da wall said..

nikmcc said..

rwtaaffe said..
And these too

Point number 4 is the one see people not following the most. Mainly TT riders in the surf.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to bail out of a wave as someone was forcing the usual starboard right of way

I'd ask maritime safety what rules apply for clarification on this topic.
Someone on a wave has right of way over a starboard vessel?

I'd say this one is not so much an actual rule but more of a surf etiquette thing

Yes definitely surf etiquette, trouble is there is a lot of kiters now that dont come from surfing background and that is ok ,
but learn what surf etiquette is or dont kite in the waves simple go and mow the lawn on flat water somewhere or away from the line up
A lot of us that come from surfing background and like me still surf , me for one get really pissed at these kiters in waves that now nothing on etiquette, if they want to do freestyle in the ocean fine just stay away from the line up, and dont get me started about the foils in the surf , what a f--J joke. not against foiling as i have tried it
Again if they want to ride in the ocean great , just stay away from the line up simple saw one the other day that nearly decapitate a grom on a surfboard, if he was my son i would have ripped his head off ignorant Pr--

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bearbusa said..

nikmcc said..

Fly on da wall said..

nikmcc said..

rwtaaffe said..
And these too

Point number 4 is the one see people not following the most. Mainly TT riders in the surf.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to bail out of a wave as someone was forcing the usual starboard right of way

I'd ask maritime safety what rules apply for clarification on this topic.
Someone on a wave has right of way over a starboard vessel?

I'd say this one is not so much an actual rule but more of a surf etiquette thing

Yes definitely surf etiquette, trouble is there is a lot of kiters now that dont come from surfing background and that is ok ,
but learn what surf etiquette is or dont kite in the waves simple go and mow the lawn on flat water somewhere or away from the line up
A lot of us that come from surfing background and like me still surf , me for one get really pissed at these kiters in waves that now nothing on etiquette, if they want to do freestyle in the ocean fine just stay away from the line up, and dont get me started about the foils in the surf , what a f--J joke. not against foiling as i have tried it
Again if they want to ride in the ocean great , just stay away from the line up simple saw one the other day that nearly decapitate a grom on a surfboard, if he was my son i would have ripped his head off ignorant Pr--

yeah for sure!

I often find the twin tip guys dont expect me to suddenly turn downwind on a wave, which means I'm cutting accross in front of them as they are riding out. They probably think I'm being a jerk and cutting them off

But in saying that, I'll do everthing I can to not cut them off. Last thing I need is 2 tangled kites in the break

Problem is the TTs just run straight out and back lines, whereas surfboards do a like a triangle shaped run

Australians love their rules. We can't have enough of them.

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bearbusa said..

nikmcc said..

Fly on da wall said..

nikmcc said..

rwtaaffe said..
And these too

Point number 4 is the one see people not following the most. Mainly TT riders in the surf.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to bail out of a wave as someone was forcing the usual starboard right of way

I'd ask maritime safety what rules apply for clarification on this topic.
Someone on a wave has right of way over a starboard vessel?

I'd say this one is not so much an actual rule but more of a surf etiquette thing

Yes definitely surf etiquette, trouble is there is a lot of kiters now that dont come from surfing background and that is ok ,
but learn what surf etiquette is or dont kite in the waves simple go and mow the lawn on flat water somewhere or away from the line up
A lot of us that come from surfing background and like me still surf , me for one get really pissed at these kiters in waves that now nothing on etiquette, if they want to do freestyle in the ocean fine just stay away from the line up, and dont get me started about the foils in the surf , what a f--J joke. not against foiling as i have tried it
Again if they want to ride in the ocean great , just stay away from the line up simple saw one the other day that nearly decapitate a grom on a surfboard, if he was my son i would have ripped his head off ignorant Pr--

Unfortunately there's plenty of kiters that come from a surfing background and think they own the water, imho if surfers are about leave them to it, if the winds cranking then it's our playground, either tt, surfboard, foil, you Carnt have it all

In regards to rule 4: are there any boaties on here that can advise? To me, wave rule doesnt seem as though it would just be etiquette. Iys also fo saftey, If you are in the pocket of a decent wave, the last thing you want to do is have to hold ground to allow an outgoing kiter to pass downwind of you, thats a sure way to get smoked. I imagine boaties have this sort of rule in place as a law?

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bjw said..
Australians love their rules. We can't have enough of them.

On thing that fiends from overseas have said about Australia is that there are rules for everything and the rules are posted everywhere, but despite this NO ONE follows any of the rules and the harder the rules are enforced the less adherence we see typically.

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Adam'KiteRepair said..
In regards to rule 4: are there any boaties on here that can advise? To me, wave rule doesnt seem as though it would just be etiquette. Iys also fo saftey, If you are in the pocket of a decent wave, the last thing you want to do is have to hold ground to allow an outgoing kiter to pass downwind of you, thats a sure way to get smoked. I imagine boaties have this sort of rule in place as a law?

Hi Adam I have had to study the international regulations for preventing Collisions at sea for commercial marine tickets I have done. This is the international road rules for all vessels power and sail. As far as I'm aware ( not the world's best student) they don't include any rules relating to operating in the surf as if you are in the surf line on any sort of.boat your probably in serious trouble.

The courses teach techniques for bar crossings which is the only time you would intentionally take any boat through the surf but this isn't part of the Collision regulations more just general knowledge.

Right of way for the rider on the wave is definitely one I see broken a lot it is dangerous and a real piss off to have a nice wave ruined.

Down winding the Perth metro area is a mess as far as the rules go, I find there is often conflict between rider's riding the wave down wind ( going left) and riders riding the wave upwind ( going right) the rider going down wind is already on the wave and approaching from upwind which gives an indication of having right of way but also the riding going upwind has usually caught the wave from further out also giving indication of right of way? So it is a bit of a stand off.

As far as I can see the only clear answer here is just show courtesy and try to keep safe distances

Would anyone else like to elaborate on this issue

Regarding right-of-way in the surf. It's simple, the guy on the wave has right-of-way. It has applied to surfing for 50 or more years. No reason to rewrite the unwritten rule.

How can people see how awesome I ride if I'm all the way out the back?

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Youngbreezy said..

Adam'KiteRepair said..
In regards to rule 4: are there any boaties on here that can advise? To me, wave rule doesnt seem as though it would just be etiquette. Iys also fo saftey, If you are in the pocket of a decent wave, the last thing you want to do is have to hold ground to allow an outgoing kiter to pass downwind of you, thats a sure way to get smoked. I imagine boaties have this sort of rule in place as a law?

Hi Adam I have had to study the international regulations for preventing Collisions at sea for commercial marine tickets I have done. This is the international road rules for all vessels power and sail. As far as I'm aware ( not the world's best student) they don't include any rules relating to operating in the surf as if you are in the surf line on any sort of.boat your probably in serious trouble.

The courses teach techniques for bar crossings which is the only time you would intentionally take any boat through the surf but this isn't part of the Collision regulations more just general knowledge.

Right of way for the rider on the wave is definitely one I see broken a lot it is dangerous and a real piss off to have a nice wave ruined.

Down winding the Perth metro area is a mess as far as the rules go, I find there is often conflict between rider's riding the wave down wind ( going left) and riders riding the wave upwind ( going right) the rider going down wind is already on the wave and approaching from upwind which gives an indication of having right of way but also the riding going upwind has usually caught the wave from further out also giving indication of right of way? So it is a bit of a stand off.

As far as I can see the only clear answer here is just show courtesy and try to keep safe distances

Would anyone else like to elaborate on this issue

ya. was thinking maybe a sub clause in surf clubs, as the boaties who race in the surf, would encounter the same issue we have. It is hard, as Iv had twin tippers twll me to F- off and obey the rules. lol

Ok, so what if:

The beach is a "surf beach" and by that I mean 2 ft mush with no real set up, just random waves everywhere, lumpy shyte with no actual walls.

The "surfers" are tic tacking around infront of said 2ft mush in a haphazard manner expecting all to give way, while they pretend like they are surfing a wave (nobody riding any faces to speak of)

I've been surfing for longer than I have been kiting but don't really see the sort of behaviour above as being anything warranting some hero to puff out his chest and demand everybody clears a path for him. If the wave was a proper spot and had an actual predictable break happening then there is no way I'd be amongst it on my twinny, I'd give them their space. Respect to surf riders that get on actual waves and make it look good. Pretty sick when it comes together and made to look good.

But the guys at my local seem to think cos they are on a surfboard everybody's gotta yield to them and its a bit crap to be honest. Razor scooters of the ocean.

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cauncy said..

NorthernKitesAUS said..
Great thread.
Could we also have signs plastered at beaches for the average beach walker, that thinks fishing, swimming, brushing past kite surfers, and letting their mutts chase us down the water line - is a good idea, to simply don't!?

Dogs love a good run, I love taking them for a good run, they love it too

I gave a local Rhodesian ridgeback a good workout last week, owner reckons it never moved all day afterwards



My old mate Sam gets buggered

Nailin that jumping poo stance Cauncy,

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Chris_M said..
Ok, so what if:

The beach is a "surf beach" and by that I mean 2 ft mush with no real set up, just random waves everywhere, lumpy shyte with no actual walls.

The "surfers" are tic tacking around infront of said 2ft mush in a haphazard manner expecting all to give way, while they pretend like they are surfing a wave (nobody riding any faces to speak of)

I've been surfing for longer than I have been kiting but don't really see the sort of behaviour above as being anything warranting some hero to puff out his chest and demand everybody clears a path for him. If the wave was a proper spot and had an actual predictable break happening then there is no way I'd be amongst it on my twinny, I'd give them their space. Respect to surf riders that get on actual waves and make it look good. Pretty sick when it comes together and made to look good.

But the guys at my local seem to think cos they are on a surfboard everybody's gotta yield to them and its a bit crap to be honest. Razor scooters of the ocean.

I think you've just described Perth metro beaches perfectly

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Chris_M said..
Ok, so what if:

The beach is a "surf beach" and by that I mean 2 ft mush with no real set up, just random waves everywhere, lumpy shyte with no actual walls.

The "surfers" are tic tacking around infront of said 2ft mush in a haphazard manner expecting all to give way, while they pretend like they are surfing a wave (nobody riding any faces to speak of)

I've been surfing for longer than I have been kiting but don't really see the sort of behaviour above as being anything warranting some hero to puff out his chest and demand everybody clears a path for him. If the wave was a proper spot and had an actual predictable break happening then there is no way I'd be amongst it on my twinny, I'd give them their space. Respect to surf riders that get on actual waves and make it look good. Pretty sick when it comes together and made to look good.

But the guys at my local seem to think cos they are on a surfboard everybody's gotta yield to them and its a bit crap to be honest. Razor scooters of the ocean.

You can always go find a lake or rivermouth to play in.... Better on your knees and you don't have to give way to anyone...heaven forbid...

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Chris_M said..
Ok, so what if:

The beach is a "surf beach" and by that I mean 2 ft mush with no real set up, just random waves everywhere, lumpy shyte with no actual walls.

The "surfers" are tic tacking around infront of said 2ft mush in a haphazard manner expecting all to give way, while they pretend like they are surfing a wave (nobody riding any faces to speak of)

I've been surfing for longer than I have been kiting but don't really see the sort of behaviour above as being anything warranting some hero to puff out his chest and demand everybody clears a path for him. If the wave was a proper spot and had an actual predictable break happening then there is no way I'd be amongst it on my twinny, I'd give them their space. Respect to surf riders that get on actual waves and make it look good. Pretty sick when it comes together and made to look good.

But the guys at my local seem to think cos they are on a surfboard everybody's gotta yield to them and its a bit crap to be honest. Razor scooters of the ocean.

ya, that one sucks man. sound to me like it sgould just be normal rules right? Either way, no one sgould ever be a dick. its not like we are sitting around a surf line up for hours to get skunked, **** happens.. If it were me on slop id be giving way to a right tacker

The right of way in the surf is a complex issue and as a whole we should follow the surf rules (person on wave has Right of way) but I feel the over all rule is both riders are responsible for avoiding collisions so if you have to bail a wave so be it.
I think some surf board riders could make their intentions clearer when they turn down wind by keeping the kite low.
It can be confusing and hard to navigate around people who always have their kites near the zenith

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CJ2478 said..

bjw said..
Australians love their rules. We can't have enough of them.

On thing that fiends from overseas have said about Australia is that there are rules for everything and the rules are posted everywhere, but despite this NO ONE follows any of the rules and the harder the rules are enforced the less adherence we see typically.

One thing I like about kiting is when it's a bit chaotic, everyone is cruising around and potentially a little dangerous, yet everyone is hooting and cheering everyone else
. It's kind of cool without rules. Just stoke and good vibes.

A mate jumped over me the other day. I saw him looking down thinking "perhaps a little too close" , but afterwards we were both stoked!

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bearbusa said..

nikmcc said..

Fly on da wall said..

nikmcc said..

rwtaaffe said..
And these too

Point number 4 is the one see people not following the most. Mainly TT riders in the surf.
I've lost count of the number of times I've had to bail out of a wave as someone was forcing the usual starboard right of way

I'd ask maritime safety what rules apply for clarification on this topic.
Someone on a wave has right of way over a starboard vessel?

I'd say this one is not so much an actual rule but more of a surf etiquette thing

A lot of us that come from surfing background and like me still get really pissed, now nothing on etiquette, what a f--J joke. just stay away, decapitated a grom, ripped his head off ignorant Pr--

Reading between the lines, maybe you need a chill pill to get your stoke back

Rules are simple.

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Chris_M said..
Ok, so what if:

The beach is a "surf beach" and by that I mean 2 ft mush with no real set up, just random waves everywhere, lumpy shyte with no actual walls.

The "surfers" are tic tacking around infront of said 2ft mush in a haphazard manner expecting all to give way, while they pretend like they are surfing a wave (nobody riding any faces to speak of)

I've been surfing for longer than I have been kiting but don't really see the sort of behaviour above as being anything warranting some hero to puff out his chest and demand everybody clears a path for him. If the wave was a proper spot and had an actual predictable break happening then there is no way I'd be amongst it on my twinny, I'd give them their space. Respect to surf riders that get on actual waves and make it look good. Pretty sick when it comes together and made to look good.

But the guys at my local seem to think cos they are on a surfboard everybody's gotta yield to them and its a bit crap to be honest. Razor scooters of the ocean.

Yep that's Perth. Well said Chris.