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Some of the comments on YouTube:

dinoalberini - This is like#65279; comparing peaches and melons just because they are both fruits.

jofajura - Fastest Sailor in the World! Rob Douglas 55,56 #65279;
Kitesurf :P

sssgeorge - the moth owns 'em asses

All the buildup and there is no ending

I wonder why they haven't asked a windsurfer to race them. Oh hang on it won't be a contest then.

^ they just need the race to finish in less than a day's time

Interestingly enough, my kitebuddy WAS an excellent 49er sailor when I met him. Then we learned to kite. Then he sold his 49er and bought a Moth.

He is racing this week in SIRS and heading for the Nationals in Belmont in January.

I wonder if he could do all three at once.

You have to think that the moth is going to kill the 49er.

The kite and the 49er would not see which way that moth went on a big upwind leg.

Kites are fastest in the right conditions i.e. in a man made trench in Namibia in a few feet of butter smooth water over 500m - in open water you would have to believe that the moth would kill it due to the foil taking out the effects of the chop which would really hinder the kiter

"ONE QUESTION"

why bother?

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bjw said...

"ONE QUESTION"

why bother?

You bother because you're interested in development, in pushing the limits of both elegant design and athletic skill. You bother because you have the imagination to take diverse influences and harness them in new combinations.

Kitesurfing has already been massively influenced by windsurfing, surfing, wakeboarding, paragliding, to the benefit of all. Who knows what innovations will be inspired by getting these guys to race together and hang out and share ideas?

I'll be interested to see the full vid when it comes out.

Ill guess that the Kitesurfer wins...

The kiteboard is by far the most elegant of the designs, and by far the cheapest. No large, expensive carbon spars; no rudder, centreboard or other clunky moving parts. If in course racing, as in speedsailing, kites can dominate, it will be a great victory for simplicity and the exploitation of spectral, tension-based design. Buckminster Fuller would be well pleased.

Beyond the competitive sailing sphere, these inter-class meetings will also spawn developments that may be relevant for wind-powered transport and electricity generation. Elegant design can massively reduce the cost and therefore increase the viability of wind-power. If the innovations come from our playground, so much the better.

i used to fly moth's as a youngster and it would smash a kite , especially in choppy conditions and upwind .

So disapointed - no wing sails on the Moths, tut tut.

Depending on conditions but my guess would be Moth, 49er, Kiter - if it's marginal foiling conditions switch the 49er and the Moth (which wouldn't happen with a wing).

yeah i'd like to see three races, one in 8-10 knots, one in 12-15, and one in 20-25.

kite racing is still so young next to these classes, who knows what the gear will evolve to in even five years. i suspect kites are on the steepest learning curve and if they're behind now, will rapidly catch up...

If its a true sailing course ie : Triangle, windward return, triangle etc.... you can forget the kite it wont even be close....... the 49er and moth have a far better pointing ( upwind ) ability.

....and the moth wouldnt even get close to the 49er, the moth is an awesome craft ( i assume we are talking about the hydrofoils )
...but nowhere near as quick as the 49er around a full course...... just check their yardsticks off the top of my head the 49er is around 82 -85 and the moth around 102 - 105.

There are not many monohulls that are quicker than a 49er ( some of the older 18ft Skiffs probably were but I dont think they are being made anymore as the market is for the 49er )

foil moth is 79 actually

^^^^^ You are correct ... I am corrected

It was updated in November 09 to 79....... but I am not sure that this is internationally recognised but just updated by the VYC ( which the rest of the country also use )

So the moth probably would be up there and the conditions would now play a factor....... ie: if its 25knots the moth will struggle in that much chop and slop

my new prediction under 20knots = Moth win over 20knots = 49er win


I still cant see the kite even getting close.

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harry potter said...

^^^^^ You are correct ... I am corrected

It was updated in November 09 to 79....... but I am not sure that this is internationally recognised but just updated by the VYC ( which the rest of the country also use )

So the moth probably would be up there and the conditions would now play a factor....... ie: if its 25knots the moth will struggle in that much chop and slop

my new prediction under 20knots = Moth win over 20knots = 49er win


I still cant see the kite even getting close.

There are several Moths that sail from the Georges River 16' Sailing Club there is no way a kite/race board combo can go anywhere near them in sub 20 knots conditions, and even over that wind strength kites would stuggle due to the chop, then I think the 49er would be fastest.
The Moth can go amazingly fast in sub 10 knots and even up to 15 knots is blisteringly quick and can point super high = no contest with a kiter IMO.

Well the results are out and there will be quite a few surprises. I couldn't see what the conditions were because I agree there may well be a differenct result depending on the conditions. Check it out.

The kite has the advantage of choosing sail size for conditions where the moth is restricted to 8m (i think). basically no restriction to the kite class. or is there?

is rather impressive the upwind speed and pointing ability of the kite.

Jokes aside, where would a windsurfer (formula) fit into the equation?

was this a true sailing course ? ie: top mark being directly upwind of the start line.

was this a true sailing course ? ie: top mark being directly upwind of the start line....or just a straight line

I dont get sound on my computer so I can tell if there is an explanation

It was a basic windward return course. I was thinking it would be Moth, kite, 49er.
Seems like the kite racing gear is progressing pretty quickly.

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DunkO said...
Jokes aside, where would a windsurfer (formula) fit into the equation?

I reckon it would give them all a run for their money... the formula guys in Qld regularly smash the fleet of sailboats in their races.

High wind a kite would kill the formula guy though.

definately should through a formula in there for interest!

i have been racing windsurfers and monohulls for a long time and i thought the moth would have won it but not by far, very surprising how far the kite won by. BUT it did look light, once the chop comes into it and the wind picks up the moth would smash all IMO.

lots of training needed to ride a race board they are a handfull!

So many variables. Perhaps in a bit more chop the moth would have an advantage, but in ocean swell they'd surely be a nightmare, while kites and windsurfers handle it easily.

As for racing against 60 foot multi-million dollar multihulls, I'm guessing that in light winds kites would get smashed. The efficiency of massive sails and long waterlines is ridiculous.

What is clear though is that unlike a lot of sailing craft, a kite on a raceboard, sailed by a skilled sailor, can go pretty well in all water conditions so long as there's 10 knots or so. Plenty of the super-fast sailing boats are quite restricted in the conditions where they can access their top speeds and VMG.

Still, when you look at the cost, transportability, versatility and durability of kite gear compared to any other craft, we're miles ahead.

I thought it was worth dragging this clip across from the parallel thread. If you can tolerate the nauseating soundtrack, and accept that kite-racing gear has evolved considerably in the few years since it was shot, it gives some idea of the ridiculous scale and performance of the really big fast boats. To be even close to these guys on gear that costs a few grand and fits in your car boot is amazing, but to beat them will take a revolution in kite design. You can't afford the drag of a boofy un-faired leading edge, or of wasted wingtip surface area if you want to play the efficiency game at the top level:

I'd like to see what happens to those big mothers in 30 knots+.

Love watching that level of technology in action.

Would I be right in assuming that a foil board would go faster, and the design is then the factor on whether it would work in high winds / chop.

Reckon Carafino would have a chop chomper by now.
Here are a couple of shots from their website - indicating not all low wind boards.





I suppose a Moth is reasonably priced now with the AUD being close to parity[}:)]

This thread raises more questions than it answers. What about a kite on a board with a foil like the moth used? Could cut through the chop like the moth did. Disadvantage is coming off the plane and getting it back up again I guess. I wonder if any of the speed kiters have trialled speeds on an aqua foil.

Impressive video ive never seen the raceboard kites before. I used to sail moths stopped 2 years ago and took up windsurfing instead. I remeber guys saying they sailed with formula boards every now and then and the formulas were quicker in certain conditions but saying that moths have gotten alot quicker in the last 2 years. I remember 49ers being around the same speed, hard to keep up with downwind, but I was never that quick downwind. So I doubt the formula guys would be a chance in those conditions.
I think the results would be different though if there were big swell and 25 knots

I dont know whether its worth putting foils on much other than moths, because of the planing area. Theres not alot of the board in the water anyway and the foils would possibly have to be around the same size to be effective and be no quicker or even slower. Worth expermenting with though.

What happens when the wind dies out? I can think of alot of times at sailing events where the wind has died and putting back to the beach. What do the kites do? Be a pain in the arse if the wind died at a worlds and everyone had to be picked up