Hi all,
my friends kite' leading edge popped today, Looks like it hit a stick as he crashed it, the hole in the bladder is about the size of a 50 cent coin, but it still has a flap of bladder, not the best photo ever. is that something I can just put a bit of that 'tare aid type a' that fix my kite sells, over the top of it, then get our local sailmaker (who doesn't do bladders but will do the fabric) to stitch up the fabric part?
thanks, Zigs

Should be fine, provided you can get the Tear-Aid type A applied nice and smooth (no wrinkles at all) with a good margin all around the tear, and also ensuring the flap is correctly located so that Tear-Aid tape can't possibly touch the opposite side of the bladder. Probably hard to achieve that with the stretched and damaged flap, so I'd trim that off and cover the hole first with a patch stuck to the inside of bladder, then add the patch on outside. And be very careful in positioning that Tear-Aid. it really does stick!

Save your self an enormous amount of wasted time and energy and pony up for a new bladder. You may not want to but if you don't there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

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snalberski said..
Save your self an enormous amount of wasted time and energy and pony up for a new bladder. You may not want to but if you don't there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

Yeah, that's likely true as it wouldn't be a simple fix; and if the kite has some age to it, the valves may start delaminating soon. However, just saying: Tear-Aid A can be very successful in these repairs if you can get it on there properly.

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snalberski said..
Save your self an enormous amount of wasted time and energy and pony up for a new bladder. You may not want to but if you don't there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

If I got a new bladder I would have to glue new valves on everywhere right? Last time I popped a kite (same kite) I had it repaired with moti Levi, it cost $250, it was about the same size hole, that's almost twice as much as I bought the kite for. If I got a new bladder, would I be able to take the old valves off of the old bladder and re-glue them to the new one?
zigs

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Sandee said..
Should be fine, provided you can get the Tear-Aid type A applied nice and smooth (no wrinkles at all) with a good margin all around the tear, and also ensuring the flap is correctly located so that Tear-Aid tape can't possibly touch the opposite side of the bladder. Probably hard to achieve that with the stretched and damaged flap, so I'd trim that off and cover the hole first with a patch stuck to the inside of bladder, then add the patch on outside. And be very careful in positioning that Tear-Aid. it really does stick!

I could cut a bit of bladder from a very old kite that I won't fly anymore, and lay that over the hole, then stick the patch over the top, I don't like my chances of sticking a bit of tear aid to the inside without sticking it to everything, would that work?

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Zigs said..

snalberski said..
Save your self an enormous amount of wasted time and energy and pony up for a new bladder. You may not want to but if you don't there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

If I got a new bladder I would have to glue new valves on everywhere right? Last time I popped a kite (same kite) I had it repaired with moti Levi, it cost $250, it was about the same size hole, that's almost twice as much as I bought the kite for. If I got a new bladder, would I be able to take the old valves off of the old bladder and re-glue them to the new one?
zigs

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Zigs said..

snalberski said..
Save your self an enormous amount of wasted time and energy and pony up for a new bladder. You may not want to but if you don't there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

If I got a new bladder I would have to glue new valves on everywhere right? Last time I popped a kite (same kite) I had it repaired with moti Levi, it cost $250, it was about the same size hole, that's almost twice as much as I bought the kite for. If I got a new bladder, would I be able to take the old valves off of the old bladder and re-glue them to the new one?
zigs

No... every valve and elbow required is attached to the new bladder. You can use your old screw in Boston main valve but for around $10 a new one is better. If all the external strut hoses and cinch clips are OK you can go with them. Once the leading edge is repaired flush the inside with a garden hose to wash out any sand/grit that is inside it. Once it's dry fit the new bladder. Tear aid can allow air to still escape through the adhesive sections... for all punctures a new bladder would always be my choice even for very small punctures.

Hi Zigs,

this is a tricky repair especially if you don't have any prior experience with patching holes with tear-aid. I agree with Sandee's advice, you need to cut the excess bladder that is flapping, clean the area very well with alcohol and make sure your tear-aid patch is quite large and doesn't stick to the other side of the bladder. Using an old bladder to prevent sticking on the other side is a good idea, but still needs to be done very well.

You also need to make sure there are zero creases with your patch otherwise the air will find an escape and you'll have to start all over again (a poorly applied tear-aid patch can easily be removed using methylated spirits, then cleaned very well with alcohol before attempting a re-patch).

Also avoid working with tear aid in cold or humid areas. use a blow dryer to pre-heat the area and get rid of any moisture which can greatly improve the adhesion.

You can easily order a new LE bladder with valves pre-installed, depending on the size of the kite you can usually get one custom made and shipped to you in less than 2 weeks for under $200 all up. We order all our bladders from Dr. Tuba (Slovenia) drtuba.eu/ shipped via DHL (super fast).

Hope this helps and good luck

Christian

thanks all for the advise, think I might try the tear aid, mostly because it is a lot cheaper, if that doesn't work and it still leaks, I will either get a new bladder or take the tear aid off like Christian said and get it done professionally.

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Zigs said..
thanks all for the advise, think I might try the tear aid, mostly because it is a lot cheaper, if that doesn't work and it still leaks, I will either get a new bladder or take the tear aid off like Christian said and get it done professionally.

I am in a good mood. Mate PM me and I'll discuss it over the phone. Not hard to do, but has to be done right - first time.

Never heard of tear aid bladder repair.

With a household iron and spare bladder material fusion weld a patch over the hole from inside the bladder, then seam weld the hole where heat proof material (12-15mm thick wood or other, cut to size of patch)was inserted from. Use baking paper or cotton on hot surface of iron so it doesn't stick to bladder.

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snalberski said..
there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

I doubt anyone has said that ever.

also talc the new bladder before you put it in, waay easier.

But absolutely give it a try to repair, i have done old kites with duct tape. Carefully slide a piece in to the inside of bladder, stick the bladder to the duct tape, use a bit of sail repair tape or whatever on the outside so it doesn't catch. Lasts forever.

if you can you are better off doing repair from inside. The pressure holds it on and it doesn't rub against the leading edge when inflating.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

But absolutely give it a try to repair, i have done old kites with duct tape. Carefully slide a piece in to the inside of bladder, stick the bladder to the duct tape, use a bit of sail repair tape or whatever on the outside so it doesn't catch. Lasts forever.

if you can you are better off doing repair from inside. The pressure holds it on and it doesn't rub against the leading edge when inflating.

Wondering what duct tape you're using Ch3mtr4il5, as I haven't seen any duct tape that would stick adequately to PU material?Totally agree about patching from the inside of bladder and then resealing the opening in the bladder. Opening a wingtip end and inverting the bladder through this opening is my preferred option as they usually have a bit of surplus length there and its simple to reseal with a vac-sealer from the kitchen.
It can be possible, though very tricky, to insert a patch through the existing hole then stick it on the inside. just be aware with TearAid it will grab onto whatever it touches.
A bit of old bladder material can suffice to cover the hole (instead of the patch on the inside), but I like a patch on the inside because the pressure's not trying to push it on, not off. Even if it only has a small overlap.
And if there's any question of the state of the valves, Christian's advice about a new bladder would be good value for $200!

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Zigs said..
Last time I popped a kite (same kite) I had it repaired with moti Levi, it cost $250, it was about the same size hole, that's almost twice as much as I bought the kite for.
zigs

Zigs, I just re-read your earlier post about cost of a prior repair vs purchase cost of this kite.
Firstly I can understand how a LE repair can be quite pricey. lots of work involved to open a LE for repair & restitch it, as well as repairing the bladder.
And I'm wondering if there was even a stick involved, or has it (very likely) simply burst under pressure in the crash? In which case, maybe the LE of this bargain kite, and maybe other parts too, is simply too old to be worth repairing?
Is there anyone who can look at the kite for you to determine whether its worth fixing? (Bearing in mind your sailmaker mate may not understand the stresses we subject a kite's LE to!)

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Sandee said..

Zigs said..
Last time I popped a kite (same kite) I had it repaired with moti Levi, it cost $250, it was about the same size hole, that's almost twice as much as I bought the kite for.
zigs

Zigs, I just re-read your earlier post about cost of a prior repair vs purchase cost of this kite.
Firstly I can understand how a LE repair can be quite pricey. lots of work involved to open a LE for repair & restitch it, as well as repairing the bladder.
And I'm wondering if there was even a stick involved, or has it (very likely) simply burst under pressure in the crash? In which case, maybe the LE of this bargain kite, and maybe other parts too, is simply too old to be worth repairing?
Is there anyone who can look at the kite for you to determine whether its worth fixing? (Bearing in mind your sailmaker mate may not understand the stresses we subject a kite's LE to!)

The first time I popped it I noticed a small tear on the leading edge, I was very new to kitesurfing and thought I could just stick sail tape on it, apparently not, and this time we were kitesurfing at old bar, weaving in and out of all the little mangroves, there was sticks everywhere and it was also very shallow, our sailmaker does the repairs for our local kite surfers, he just doesn't do the bladders

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

snalberski said..
there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

I doubt anyone has said that ever.

also talc the new bladder before you put it in, waay easier.

But absolutely give it a try to repair, i have done old kites with duct tape. Carefully slide a piece in to the inside of bladder, stick the bladder to the duct tape, use a bit of sail repair tape or whatever on the outside so it doesn't catch. Lasts forever.

if you can you are better off doing repair from inside. The pressure holds it on and it doesn't rub against the leading edge when inflating.

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Sandee said..

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

But absolutely give it a try to repair, i have done old kites with duct tape. Carefully slide a piece in to the inside of bladder, stick the bladder to the duct tape, use a bit of sail repair tape or whatever on the outside so it doesn't catch. Lasts forever.

if you can you are better off doing repair from inside. The pressure holds it on and it doesn't rub against the leading edge when inflating.

Wondering what duct tape you're using Ch3mtr4il5, as I haven't seen any duct tape that would stick adequately to PU material?Totally agree about patching from the inside of bladder and then resealing the opening in the bladder. Opening a wingtip end and inverting the bladder through this opening is my preferred option as they usually have a bit of surplus length there and its simple to reseal with a vac-sealer from the kitchen.
It can be possible, though very tricky, to insert a patch through the existing hole then stick it on the inside. just be aware with TearAid it will grab onto whatever it touches.
A bit of old bladder material can suffice to cover the hole (instead of the patch on the inside), but I like a patch on the inside because the pressure's not trying to push it on, not off. Even if it only has a small overlap.
And if there's any question of the state of the valves, Christian's advice about a new bladder would be good value for $200!

I've used 'T-Rex Tape' (buy it at Bunnings) to stick a valve back on on another kite, that seemed to work

Yeah, I just thought because there's such a big split in the fabric, and comparatively small blowout of the bladder. seems likely that a failure of the fabric might've caused the bladder blowout? I'd expect a puncture hole to be closer to the size of actual puncture. (You can easily burst a weak LE just by crashing a kite onto water.)

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Sandee said..
Yeah, I just thought because there's such a big split in the fabric, and comparatively small blowout of the bladder. seems likely that a failure of the fabric might've caused the bladder blowout? I'd expect a puncture hole to be closer to the size of actual puncture. (You can easily burst a weak LE just by crashing a kite onto water.)

Yeah true, I'll still fix it though, if it happens again though I probably won't

Also, once it's fixed, should It only be pumped to something like 4 or 5 psi, rather than 6

Remove bladder, get sail repairist to do his thing
Crack a beer 1st
Ensure its flushed out as salt water crystallises when dry
Hang up to dry it out, lay on a cutting board with little hand clamps, use alcohol wipes to clean area and beyond, use tear aid type a , and cover the are, a little nylon roller and a hair dryer make it extra sticky
Itll still be intact for years if you do it properly
Crack another beer, and raise a toast you've surprised yourself, you're not that f######g useless

I doubt whether pumping to a lower pressure would actually help. A decent patch job will hold the pressure just fine. Lower pressure causes more distortion of leading edge, impaired handling and potentially greater stresses in places where it bends excessively.

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Sandee said..
I doubt whether pumping to a lower pressure would actually help. A decent patch job will hold the pressure just fine. Lower pressure causes more distortion of leading edge, impaired handling and potentially greater stresses in places where it bends excessively.

Oh ok, thanks

FAaaaaaaaa kk meee... the comments in here are getting ridiculous. Duck tape? Welding? Just stop it.
Just listen to us old kooks. We know what we're talking about.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

snalberski said..
there is a very high chance that in a month you'll saying 'I should just done what that guy on Seabreeze said'

I doubt anyone has said that ever.

I've said it.