Kite Instructors and AKSA

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KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
28 Feb 2012 8:51am
I have a few questions for kiting instructors -

Are you a member of AKSA? If not, why not?

Do you incourgage your students to join AKSA?

The reason I ask this is that I've met many new kiters who don't know that there is a national body looking after their interests.
winter
winter
VIC
155 posts
VIC, 155 posts
28 Feb 2012 11:55am
It should be compulsory for all students Aksa could introduce a 3 month membership for students same deal for overseas kiters here for a short time
My 2c
Livit
Livit
WA
542 posts
WA, 542 posts
28 Feb 2012 10:59am
Hey KIT33R!

I'm not a member of AKSA or should I say WAKSA cause it seems to be a different one...
The main reason is because I find them useless here in WA. I'm used of very committed organisation back home in Europe and I really think this one is a joke.

Waksa people are winging all the time on the forum and spend their time complaining about the crowd and people who don't know about the local restrictions or regulations.

I don't know about the other states but here I've never seen any WAKSA sign even on the most crowded places. No informations, no warning just nothing but a single leaflet displayed on my windscreen while I was teaching.....

Oh, does it mean that someone from WAKSA came to our work place and didn't even bother coming along to have a chat with us instructors???? I've been here since the beginning of the season and no one has come to introduce WAKSA, their commitment and actions....

The only times I hear about them is when there is an event such as Kitestock, Lighthouse to Leighton....

Why the hell should I encourage our students to join them, I don't even know who they are....

I'm happy to pay an annual fee and support an organization if they are committed and efficient. Otherwise if it's only in order to get a public liability coverage, I just get a better one from my insurer (which I did this year).
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
28 Feb 2012 2:42pm
Thanks Livit for your frank input. I wonder if you've actually visited the AKSA web site to see what AKSA, or your local state branch WAKSA, actually do.

Have you looked at the minutes from the 2011 AGM

http://www.aksa.com.au/Default.aspx?pageId=655513

which will give you a detailed list a achievements for the year. It seems to me that WAKSA is very active in your wonderful state.

I think new kiters should be encouraged to be part of and participate in all aspects of kiteboarding including social events, competition, knowledge sharing and much more. As an instructor you are their introduction to the sport and should encourage participation.
gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
28 Feb 2012 12:27pm
Livit said...

Hey KIT33R!


Why the hell should I encourage our students to join them, I don't even know who they are....

I'm happy to pay an annual fee and support an organization if they are committed and efficient. Otherwise if it's only in order to get a public liability coverage, I just get a better one from my insurer (which I did this year).


Why should you be teaching here when you obviously don't even have a clue about the local situation and WAKSA. I guess your school does not even take the time to brief the instructors about local issues and benefits of having support by a well regarded organisation. look at all the number tags on the harnesses or do you think these are fashion items ?? You probably as good a teacher as you are with getting to know your work environment.
have a nice day.
gmd
Livit
Livit
WA
542 posts
WA, 542 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:10pm
gmd said...


Hey KIT33R!


Why should you be teaching here when you obviously don't even have a clue about the local situation and WAKSA. I guess your school does not even take the time to brief the instructors about local issues and benefits of having support by a well regarded organisation. look at all the number tags on the harnesses or do you think these are fashion items ?? You probably as good a teacher as you are with getting to know your work environment.
have a nice day.
gmd



Fair enough but it seems that communication is none of their concerned. It's not difficult for them to go the schools at the beginning of each season and inform the staff about their actions....

KIT33R is doing it the right way by asking the right questions to the people concerned, then actions can be taken.

I just state what I see and also compare with some better organisations I've seen oversea.

My job is to teach people how to enjoy the sport safely and I'm also more than happy to spread the word about WAKSA if they would bother to introduce themselves and talk about their achievement.

Just go on their website to get informations about the different locations.... It's been under construction for such a long time that people travelling around cannot even get informations about the different locations....

I think the purpose of this topic is to get the opinion of concerned people in order to make the organisation better. The number of tags doesn't mean that things cannot be enhanced...

Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:13pm
Livit said...

Hey KIT33R!

I'm not a member of AKSA or should I say WAKSA cause it seems to be a different one...
The main reason is because I find them useless here in WA. I'm used of very committed organisation back home in Europe and I really think this one is a joke.

Waksa people are winging all the time on the forum and spend their time complaining about the crowd and people who don't know about the local restrictions or regulations.

I don't know about the other states but here I've never seen any WAKSA sign even on the most crowded places. No informations, no warning just nothing but a single leaflet displayed on my windscreen while I was teaching.....

Oh, does it mean that someone from WAKSA came to our work place and didn't even bother coming along to have a chat with us instructors???? I've been here since the beginning of the season and no one has come to introduce WAKSA, their commitment and actions....

The only times I hear about them is when there is an event such as Kitestock, Lighthouse to Leighton....

Why the hell should I encourage our students to join them, I don't even know who they are....

I'm happy to pay an annual fee and support an organization if they are committed and efficient. Otherwise if it's only in order to get a public liability coverage, I just get a better one from my insurer (which I did this year).



Remarkable commentary from someone who readily admits only having been here since the start of the season.....

Just a question for you David, did you bother to find out about the local scene here or did you just happen to start teaching without making any enquiries?

WAKSA's useless because why again - I'd be very keen to hear your thoughts?

Given your profound knowledge of what's gone on in Perth over the past couple of years you're obviously aware of the representation work that has gone into keeping the beach you teach at open (don't mention it mate, the Association did it simply so you could make a dollar...)

Those 'winging' comments (I think the word you wanted to use was "whinge") about crowds & people - IMO, WAKSA has an obligation to raise issues amongst the kiting community about beach access, kiter behaviour and kite safety. If you don't think those issues are relevant to kiting in WA, I wish you well.


"No informations"....obviously you haven't seen too many of the Guidelines maps that have been distributed this season. "No introductions" - sorry bud, when did you contact WAKSA to say "I'm a new instructor, is there anything I should now about local rules or local advice you can give me..." (before I potentiall fk things up for kiters....)

I'll be the first to admit there is much more that WAKSA could do, but with the limted resources a volunteer organisation has, we do as good a job as we can.
Does the Association always get things right? Perhaps not & I'm certainly open to discussion as to what can or should be done differently - but from credible commentators.

Finally, if some fly by night Tuero instructor (who's been here 3 months) & who has no idea of the history of kiting issues in Perth thinks that making uninformed comments won't get a response from me, think again.


Juddy

the gibbo
the gibbo
WA
776 posts
WA, 776 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:22pm
As a "proffesional" it is you who should seek out the local organisation/s and make yourself aware of who they are and what and who they represent

So you just rock up and teach hey

You repeatedly "I just state what I see and also compare with some better organisations I've seen oversea"

How the hell do you know if you as you said "I don't even know who they are...."(reffering to WAKSA)

I find your comments arrogant and ill informed, but i am glad you are insured at least that shows some minor respect

Get of your arse and go i find out, and remember no one in WAKSA gets paid they are volunteers



EDIT Juddy beat me to it
Livit
Livit
WA
542 posts
WA, 542 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:32pm
Always the same statement Juddy. You just don't like when people (especially the ones from oversea) criticize the way WAKSA works.

My comment, I say it again is MY OPINION. Maybe some of the CONCERNED people (instructors) have a different one or just share the same. But if you were clever you would take the criticism with a constructive manner instead of wasting your time correcting my spelling....

I state the fact that I've seen some better management elsewhere so if you don't want to accept my point of view, just don't take it. I can live with it....

gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:32pm
Juddy said...

Livit said...

Hey KIT33R!


I'll be the first to admit there is much more that WAKSA could do, but with the limted resources a volunteer organisation has, we do as good a job as we can.



And it would be really good if people who call themselves instructors are a little more professional and smarter to support the only real voice we currently have here with the councils. Does not reflect well on instructors or is it only one ? Following the logic of the poster other instructors must be just as ignorant !

Juddy, don't get worked up too much and we all know that your answer was born out of a general need to not let such a statement without comment and not out of courtesy of spending your time on a constructive post.

regards
gmd
Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:44pm
Livit said...

Always the same statement Juddy. You just don't like when people (especially the ones from oversea) criticize the way WAKSA works.

My comment, I say it again is MY OPINION. Maybe some of the CONCERNED people (instructors) have a different one or just share the same. But if you were clever you would take the criticism with a constructive manner instead of wasting your time correcting my spelling....

I state the fact that I've seen some better management elsewhere so if you don't want to accept my point of view, just don't take it. I can live with it....





No Livit, it's not the same thing again. I readily admit "things could be done differently & better..." and opinion is fine - until you can't or won't substantiate your opinion....

I put my question again: if WAKSA is "useless" tell us what in your opinion might be done differently or better - I'm always open to advice or suggestions? You seem to have an opinion about how other organisations do things - share your knowledge.

Of course, it's easy to sit on the sidelines & make random comments. Perhaps with your vast knowledge you'd be prepared to join the Association and make a contribution....or do you just want to talk the talk?

Ball is in your court.

csjena
csjena
VIC
249 posts
VIC, 249 posts
28 Feb 2012 4:53pm
Battles are won if the solders and generals walking the same direction!

Join! Share! Contribute!

...and this comes from a australianized german from Victoria!

OK...We have wind this week, so I go kiting....
Livit
Livit
WA
542 posts
WA, 542 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:54pm
Fair enough, I'll PM you!
NSW, 4382 posts
28 Feb 2012 7:14pm
Livit - You'll never make a change from the outside looking in just by throwing sticks and stones (insults).
If you want a different WAKSA, get involved, at least become a member and voice your opinion on what could be done different and better to the committee.

Would be interested to know if you are teaching legally and if you have full permits to conduct your kitesurfing instruction business?
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
28 Feb 2012 9:13pm
KIT33R said...

I have a few questions for kiting instructors -

Are you a member of AKSA? If not, why not?

Do you encourage your students to join AKSA?

The reason I ask this is that I've met many new kiters who don't know that there is a national body looking after their interests.


It seems that we have got a bit off topic a bit here. My original questions still remain.

Are there any kiting instructors following this thread who would care to make a constructive comment?
the walks
the walks
WA
448 posts
WA, 448 posts
28 Feb 2012 6:36pm
Kite boarding Perth issue every student with a WAKSA Leaflet.
Perhaps a few more invites to thursdays kiteschool meeting may be needed, are you a kiteschool owner Livit
sorse
sorse
NSW
509 posts
NSW, 509 posts
28 Feb 2012 9:47pm
Sorse or David from Kite and SUP operating in Newcastle, Port Stephens and Central coast..
Yes I am a member of AKSA, Yes I promote them to students for the public liability..
What I want to kno wis Why do I still need IKO Instructor qualification to teach in Australia?
I was told we were gong to talk to BKSA regarding using there teachign system in AUstralia, but that after it was all organised and a person was coming out to taolk with us, that someone in WA said they would do it all and orgainse it.
Yet that was over 12 months ago.. An here I sit sending money back to IKO still??

Also apart from issues with Bondi Beach and the occassion other beach in New South Wales I don't know what AKSA does in our state?

I will be approaching them soon as I want to run a race series and start a local club in Newcastle so we can start putting our funds towards local events, as I have no idea where all our monies are going..

There is much can be done, I know I don't have the time to join the committee myself so I will not throw stones, Andy, Emma and Myself helped out with AKSA years ago, but left due to someone accusing us of using it to promote our products so we stepped away. Funnily enough following our stepp down another brand did a massive promotion after they stepped in behind us..

There is good and bad in all orgainsation..
Happy they do cover comps for insurrance and I go to comps..
Hope this all makes sense..
Cheers Dave
NSW, 4382 posts
28 Feb 2012 9:55pm
sorse said...

Sorse or David from Kite and SUP operating in Newcastle, Port Stephens and Central coast..
Yes I am a member of AKSA, Yes I promote them to students for the public liability..
What I want to kno wis Why do I still need IKO Instructor qualification to teach in Australia?


You don't Dave, IKO is not recognised in any way in Australia, by any Gov't authority, nor is the spin off BKSA.

sorse said...
I was told we were gong to talk to BKSA regarding using there teachign system in AUstralia, but that after it was all organised and a person was coming out to taolk with us, that someone in WA said they would do it all and orgainse it.
Yet that was over 12 months ago.. An here I sit sending money back to IKO still??

Also apart from issues with Bondi Beach and the occassion other beach in New South Wales I don't know what AKSA does in our state?

I will be approaching them soon as I want to run a race series and start a local club in Newcastle so we can start putting our funds towards local events, as I have no idea where all our monies are going..

There is much can be done, I know I don't have the time to join the committee myself so I will not throw stones, Andy, Emma and Myself helped out with AKSA years ago, but left due to someone accusing us of using it to promote our products so we stepped away. Funnily enough following our stepp down another brand did a massive promotion after they stepped in behind us..

There is good and bad in all orgainsation..
Happy they do cover comps for insurrance and I go to comps..
Hope this all makes sense..
Cheers Dave


There is a lot being done, the organisation is volunteer run. The fact that AKSA and the State Associations that are part of AKSA are the single main reason we still have access to most beaches.
Kep your membership active if you want the government to be able to see that they have a way to communicate with kitesurfers and that all members are insured.


Triggerhappy
Triggerhappy
WA
174 posts
WA, 174 posts
28 Feb 2012 10:23pm
It seems that AKSA or WAKSA have a fundamental problem about awareness. Most people i know dont have a clue about their existence let along what they do, some that have joined have only done so for the 3rd party insurance (Full Comp would be a better enticer) Others to join for competitions or events run by them.

Others have said "Whats the point"
vwpete
vwpete
WA
139 posts
WA, 139 posts
28 Feb 2012 10:38pm
Kitepower Australia said...

sorse said...

Sorse or David from Kite and SUP operating in Newcastle, Port Stephens and Central coast..
Yes I am a member of AKSA, Yes I promote them to students for the public liability..
What I want to kno wis Why do I still need IKO Instructor qualification to teach in Australia?


You don't Dave, IKO is not recognised in any way in Australia, by any Gov't authority, nor is the spin off BKSA.


That's a terrible statement, so now you think its just fine for anyone to teach without having taken any training. waksa/aksa should be promoting the IKO/BKSA to the gov't authority's, for the teaching standards and methods they represent. For what its worth i promote IKO and BKSA, for the teaching standards. I do promote waksa as a put somink into local kiting thing especially when teaching locals.

To be clear i am not saying IKO and BKSA are perfect, but until OZ has its own teaching standards and instructor training, IKO and BKSA should be supported and recommended to all who wish to learn kiting.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
28 Feb 2012 11:57pm
I would consider myself a kite instructor but would never do it for a buck.

From experience, both BKSA and IKO are money grubbing organisations pumping out instructors to infect the world.......they even promote the life style of travelling and teaching....fine, but this does not work for me or my community of kite surfers.

Australia is going to have it's own certification at some point, but for the time being we can bench mark what is good and what is bad about the current orgs.....mostly bad I am afraid. We need to start from scratch and until then we can put up with the fly through crowd, the carpet baggers.

AKSA/WAKSA are membership orgs. who have done heaps to keep our beach access, and that is their mandate. The comps. and other events are extras. I believe these orgs. will be working towards limiting the number of "instructors" by eventually coming up with their own "qualifications," and believe me, these "qualifications" will include knowing the local customs and rules, one of which will be to join the AKSA. There will come a time, and the sooner the better where kite schools will be severely restricted..........and I believe that to be a good thing.

International money grubbing orgs. pumping out carpet baggers to pollute our spots with more kiters is not what the membership want.
NSW, 4382 posts
29 Feb 2012 11:12am
vwpete said...

Kitepower Australia said...

sorse said...

Sorse or David from Kite and SUP operating in Newcastle, Port Stephens and Central coast..
Yes I am a member of AKSA, Yes I promote them to students for the public liability..
What I want to kno wis Why do I still need IKO Instructor qualification to teach in Australia?


You don't Dave, IKO is not recognised in any way in Australia, by any Gov't authority, nor is the spin off BKSA.


That's a terrible statement, so now you think its just fine for anyone to teach without having taken any training. waksa/aksa should be promoting the IKO/BKSA to the gov't authority's, for the teaching standards and methods they represent. For what its worth i promote IKO and BKSA, for the teaching standards. I do promote waksa as a put somink into local kiting thing especially when teaching locals.

To be clear i am not saying IKO and BKSA are perfect, but until OZ has its own teaching standards and instructor training, IKO and BKSA should be supported and recommended to all who wish to learn kiting.


Its just a statement of fact, nothing terrible needs to be read into it. Instructors do not need a qualification from an overseas organisation that has no office or jurisdiction here. They do not have an effective ongoing quality assurance program and have put next to nothing back into the sport, they have gotten what they gave, almost nothing.

Put it another way, if an instructor had been trained by say Darren Marshall and was working well in his school, then that would be enough of a reference for him to work in my school, pretty sure that would cut the other way too.

If you want an insiders opinion, then I'm happy to elaborate in a PM, otherwise not interested in the way a thread on the merits or lack of, on the IKO/BKSA would degenerate.
au_rick
au_rick
WA
752 posts
WA, 752 posts
29 Feb 2012 8:41am
^^^ The first step towards this would be to develop an Australian Standards document for kiteboarding instruction.

Having said that, I do not believe that the PADI scuba diving course complies with Australian Standards and look at how big PADI is worldwide !!
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
29 Feb 2012 12:21pm
Do we have an Australian Kiteboarding Instructors Organisation/Association? No, I don't think so. This would help in setting local standards and in future Australian accreditation.

Don't assume this is AKSA's responcibility. Not many instructors sit on the various state or federal committees, hence we don't know what is expected. Don't say you're too busy, we all have busy lives with jobs and families.

Most professions in this country have there own associations, why not kiteboarding instructors?
Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
29 Feb 2012 10:00am
Despite my intention to leave this thread alone, I can't not respond to some of Livits comments.

Livit, you are yet to PM me or explain in further detail why WAKSA is so “useless”, so if/when you get around to a PM, perhaps you might want to consider the following:

1) Please explain how you expect WAKSA to introduce ourselves to you, if we don't know you're out there instructing students? You haven't shown us the 'professional' courtesy of letting anyone know you're operating as a school or instructor so how would you expect us to know who you are? Here's a thought – if you'd introduced yourself to WAKSA, perhaps we might have been able to give you some assistance & local contacts, but no, “we don't even know who YOU are...”

2) You're here making a dollar out of the sport – other than that, what contribution have you made to the local scene?

3) By the way, have you got any relevant permission to teach from the local council where you are teaching or are you operating possibly 'illegally'? Is your school a registered business with an ABN/ACN, with appropriate insurance or are you just another traveling Euro instructor here on a holiday?

4) Signage….as I indicated yesterday, you have no idea about what you are talking about given you've been here since the start of this season. You might be interested to know that throughout 2011 WAKSA met with a range of government agencies who have to some degree, conflicting or over-riding jurisdictions when it comes to beaches and rivers in & around Perth. Those meetings have been about installation of relevant signage amongst other kite surfing issues.

Between these agencies, there is a huge amount of buck passing (some of it legitimate, some of it bureaucratic nonsense) that effectively means that no official signage will be put up. Unfortunately, WAKSA has been advised that if we were to install signage of our own, it would be removed as it wasn't authorised. - which is part of the reason why we've been publishing our location guidelines.

5) The only time you hear from WAKSA is when we are promoting events? Wow….who'd have thought that strange.

6) Finally, you'd support an organisation that was committed & efficient….please explain your definitions of committed & efficient. If you knew half of what goes on behind the scenes you'd probably have a better understanding of the local scene.

Come on Livit, you said you'd PM me with suggestions, contributions, ideas. Where are you - as of 9.00am Wednesday I haven't heard from you? I have never said WAKSA has all the answers & absolutely, things can be done differently and inevitably better, and possibly your suggestions could be used.

It's time to put your money where your mouth is….step up….
vwpete
vwpete
WA
139 posts
WA, 139 posts
29 Feb 2012 10:29am
Exactly Australia does not have its own instructor and school standards org.

So how do you know if you have a good instructor or school? Well make sure your instructor is or has been IKO or BKSA accredited and even better make sure the school is IKO or BKSA accredited.

IKO has a web site you can check if the instructor has insurance, you can check if a school has insurance. IKO also do onsite checks to see if the school is complying with the rules and standards, like do they have a rescue craft, 1st aid kit, is the teaching location considered safe?, do they have a senior instructor Etc etc.

It's that simple! So as I said you want to know if kite instructors promote AKSA, I do but I promote the teaching standards 1st, let's face it if students learn't the full proper IKO or BKSA teaching method. AKSA would not have to work so hard to keep beaches open because there would be fewer incidents.

Also I don't like that anyone can be a member of AKSA and get Public liability, you should 1st make sure they are either iko/bksa qualified or do a skills check before accepting them. Maybe then the premiums would be lower as you would have fewer claims.

Aksa could promote itself better showing that while there are kite incidents, there are few if any involving members of AKSA.
iandvnt
iandvnt
QLD
581 posts
QLD, 581 posts
29 Feb 2012 12:40pm
Good on people that don't have any conflicts of interest whatsoever, who are not a dogooders, who don't aim to make profit and who are highly experienced at kiting (many many years experience behind them - ie done teh hard yards) that do this kind of stuff, but I personally have no interest whatsoever in any of this.

Anything that distances a country from organisations like IKO (Dominican Republic) and IKA(German) that do have huge conflicts of interest, are money grabbing rip off merchants and haven't put in the hard yards in kitesurfing is a good thing is my books.

The best tip I can offer is maybe think about teaching kite control with a 5m leash from the kites pump attachment point to your wrist giving the student 15 degrees of kite control that is instantly depowerable simply by launching and standing under the kite. Saves you money on trashed kites an means you can judge if the student has the ability/ control (learn oversheeting effects, gust control , depowering, kite control with minimal risk) to go it alone with the kite under instruction.

NSW, 4382 posts
29 Feb 2012 2:54pm
vwpete said...

Exactly Australia does not have its own instructor and school standards org.

So how do you know if you have a good instructor or school? Well make sure your instructor is or has been IKO or BKSA accredited and even better make sure the school is IKO or BKSA accredited.

IKO has a web site you can check if the instructor has insurance, you can check if a school has insurance. IKO also do onsite checks to see if the school is complying with the rules and standards, like do they have a rescue craft, 1st aid kit, is the teaching location considered safe?, do they have a senior instructor Etc etc.

It's that simple! So as I said you want to know if kite instructors promote AKSA, I do but I promote the teaching standards 1st, let's face it if students learn't the full proper IKO or BKSA teaching method. AKSA would not have to work so hard to keep beaches open because there would be fewer incidents.

Also I don't like that anyone can be a member of AKSA and get Public liability, you should 1st make sure they are either iko/bksa qualified or do a skills check before accepting them. Maybe then the premiums would be lower as you would have fewer claims.

Aksa could promote itself better showing that while there are kite incidents, there are few if any involving members of AKSA.



There is a need for a different accreditation system, something that is Australian based and contributes to the sport.

Just because something currently exists, like IKO/BKSA does not mean that its good, and experience has proven that it is not an ideal system. IKO is a profit driven organisation, so it minimises its costs, which means it minimises what it puts back into the sport that it derives income from.

Some of the very worst instructors I've seen have been IKO or BKSA "qualified". There are even a few prominent ones that run schools and wave the IKO flag like crazy, but who teach in onshore conditions, in ankle deep water, with "assistant" instructors hanging onto student harnesses. They negate the use of trainer kites and actively promote disapproval of trainer kites because ill prepared students can be convinced to take more of their high cost lessons. They complicate learning to fly a kite, so that it sounds like it can only be done with high cost lessons.
Many of them are "cash only" businesses, many force students to share instruction, so that each student gets only shared time or a fraction of the time they paid for. But hey they are IKO so they must be good right???
Not.

Instructors that arrive from overseas and rape the freedom of our liberal society, pay no taxes and contribute nothing back into our sport or community, while waving the flag of a profit driven "certifying" self appointed authority, are one of the main causes of conflict between by poorly trained students and other beach users.

People can only afford one or a few lessons at most, so if the lessons are shared, learning is minimal and compromised by the profit needs and greed of the "instructor". Consequently beginner gives up on lessons and goes it alone without full and comprehensive training. This is happening everywhere and all over, all in the name of IKO what a farce, its actually borderline criminal IMO.

I think its easy to see and find those businesses and individuals that have invested in their community, and in the sport. These people and organisations do things the right way because their own future is intrinsically tied to safe and sustainable business practices. These schools and instructors are passionate about turning beginners into safe and independent learners that respect other beach users and who actively support joining AKSA and who are members themselves.

DANEgerous
DANEgerous
VIC
253 posts
VIC, 253 posts
29 Feb 2012 3:25pm
iandvnt said...

The best tip I can offer is maybe think about teaching kite control with a 5m leash from the kites pump attachment point to your wrist giving the student 15 degrees of kite control that is instantly depowerable simply by launching and standing under the kite. Saves you money on trashed kites an means you can judge if the student has the ability/ control (learn oversheeting effects, gust control , depowering, kite control with minimal risk) to go it alone with the kite under instruction.


FYI, IKO teaches this method.
vwpete
vwpete
WA
139 posts
WA, 139 posts
29 Feb 2012 12:50pm
Kitepower Australia said...

vwpete said...

Exactly Australia does not have its own instructor and school standards org.

So how do you know if you have a good instructor or school? Well make sure your instructor is or has been IKO or BKSA accredited and even better make sure the school is IKO or BKSA accredited.

IKO has a web site you can check if the instructor has insurance, you can check if a school has insurance. IKO also do onsite checks to see if the school is complying with the rules and standards, like do they have a rescue craft, 1st aid kit, is the teaching location considered safe?, do they have a senior instructor Etc etc.

It's that simple! So as I said you want to know if kite instructors promote AKSA, I do but I promote the teaching standards 1st, let's face it if students learn't the full proper IKO or BKSA teaching method. AKSA would not have to work so hard to keep beaches open because there would be fewer incidents.

Also I don't like that anyone can be a member of AKSA and get Public liability, you should 1st make sure they are either iko/bksa qualified or do a skills check before accepting them. Maybe then the premiums would be lower as you would have fewer claims.

Aksa could promote itself better showing that while there are kite incidents, there are few if any involving members of AKSA.



There is a need for a different accreditation system, something that is Australian based and contributes to the sport.

Just because something currently exists, like IKO/BKSA does not mean that its good, and experience has proven that it is not an ideal system. IKO is a profit driven organisation, so it minimises its costs, which means it minimises what it puts back into the sport that it derives income from.

Some of the very worst instructors I've seen have been IKO or BKSA "qualified". There are even a few prominent ones that run schools and wave the IKO flag like crazy, but who teach in onshore conditions, in ankle deep water, with "assistant" instructors hanging onto student harnesses. They negate the use of trainer kites and actively promote disapproval of trainer kites because ill prepared students can be convinced to take more of their high cost lessons. They complicate learning to fly a kite, so that it sounds like it can only be done with high cost lessons.
Many of them are "cash only" businesses, many force students to share instruction, so that each student gets only shared time or a fraction of the time they paid for. But hey they are IKO so they must be good right???
Not.

Instructors that arrive from overseas and rape the freedom of our liberal society, pay no taxes and contribute nothing back into our sport or community, while waving the flag of a profit driven "certifying" self appointed authority, are one of the main causes of conflict between by poorly trained students and other beach users.

People can only afford one or a few lessons at most, so if the lessons are shared, learning is minimal and compromised by the profit needs and greed of the "instructor". Consequently beginner gives up on lessons and goes it alone without full and comprehensive training. This is happening everywhere and all over, all in the name of IKO what a farce, its actually borderline criminal IMO.

I think its easy to see and find those businesses and individuals that have invested in their community, and in the sport. These people and organisations do things the right way because their own future is intrinsically tied to safe and sustainable business practices. These schools and instructors are passionate about turning beginners into safe and independent learners that respect other beach users and who actively support joining AKSA and who are members themselves.




Your off topic and way off the mark, what's wrong with profit, your shop/schools are for profit? and bksa is non-profit anyway. So what do you recommend right now? instructors have no accreditation? you think that would be better? Or you mean accreditation by you cos you know best.

The classic here is your website promotes IKO saying you use iko instructors and your kite centers are IKO accredited, and you follow IKO training methods, even better you're running an IKO instructor training course in September!

http://www.kitepower.com.au/kitesurfing-lessons.html

Anyways, Yes I have seen bad instruction as well, in this country and others it happens. With IKO the student is sent an email to ask for feedback, did they use helmets, life vests etc how was your lesson, as for not using trainer kites that's against IKO standards and by the way DM's school does not use them.

You want standards IKO and BKSA has them in spades (as you know), do some instructors not follow the teaching method, sure it happens, would I then say let's do away with all of it and have nothing (that's the current option) no I would not and nor should you (and nor does your website).

When/if Australia gets its own teaching accreditation we can have a different conversation.
waxhead1
waxhead1
VIC
172 posts
VIC, 172 posts
29 Feb 2012 3:55pm
I agree with Livit. I have been kiting for about 6 years and I am not a member of any kiting organisation. I was a member in 2007 with AKSA and I don't know why. I paid $70.00 and all I got was invites to kiting comps, and i'm not that good, so why bother?
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