So a hypothetical here.

Im a newbie and i live in altona. I wander down to KSS my local kite shop and ask for some lessons. Where are my lessons going to be held? Altona beach? Am I insured whilst undertaking the lessons? (or do i need my own insurance?) Is a permit or such required to conduct a lesson in a public place?


Im just curious, as a frequent kiter at Altona i have witnessed or heard about from friends many instances of injuries - ambulances, kites over lines - power outs, flouting of the keeping clear of the pier rule etc etc etc, this the usual, and yes its concerning, but now a kite school is going to dip in as well?
Now not saying that this (StKilda in the West) is going to make it worse, maybe we will have a bunch of well informed locals who are interested in playing by the rules to keep access.
But realistically, when the season is on, the lessons will be pumped out in any conditions and the required attention to details will slide. More incidents will be caused either directly - during in lessons or indirectly - after lessons when all the fresh learners come to the beach they know. Disputing this futile, its fact, heaps of new learners into an already crowded area with a known sketchy launch, its going to happen.
A little bird told me there might be 9 instructors ready to go.... (9 x 6 days per week x 4 lessons per day = 216 lessons per week, say 4 lessons per newbie, thats 50 newies per week - must be totally wrong seems like way to many, but i have been wrong before ;-)

Any comments?

I think someone is yanking you're chain!

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manicskier said...

So a hypothetical here.

I wander down to KSS my local kite shop and ask for some lessons. Where are my lessons going to be held? Altona beach? Am I insured whilst undertaking the lessons? (or do i need my own insurance?) Is a permit or such required to conduct a lesson in a public place?

Probably best thing to do is to take it from hypothetical, and make it real by physcially speaking to the people you're asking the questions about - I reckon they'd be happy to answer your questions.

You can call Steve or Lars @ KSS Altona via their mobiles:
www.kssaltona.com.au/contact.php

0405 626 318

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laurie said...

manicskier said...

So a hypothetical here.

I wander down to KSS my local kite shop and ask for some lessons. Where are my lessons going to be held? Altona beach? Am I insured whilst undertaking the lessons? (or do i need my own insurance?) Is a permit or such required to conduct a lesson in a public place?

Probably best thing to do is to take it from hypothetical, and make it real by physcially speaking to the people you're asking the questions about - I reckon they'd be happy to answer your questions.

You can call Steve or Lars @ KSS Altona via their mobiles:
www.kssaltona.com.au/contact.php

0405 626 318

Yeh thanks laurie, sure thing they would. I find it really odd though that a business can operate in the public space without being able to answer some simple questions about the legal bits around their lessons. The reason for asking the question on here is it will have a little more presence than me ringing the dude and asking. I already know the answer to some of those questions. Hopefully if all isnt in order it is fixed asap. As in my mind it is a risk to my local for the purposes of running a profitable business.

Cheers

If you have an issue with a business take it up with them personally rather than gobbing off on a public forum like a nob. Sounds like your just bitching, someone call the WAAMBULANCE.

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davem207 said...
If you have an issue with a business take it up with them personally rather than gobbing off on a public forum like a nob. Sounds like your just bitching, someone call the WAAMBULANCE.

But here is the thing if i gob of on a forum like a massive knob, the business may act with a little more haste so they can simply come here and answer the questions. That would be a far better situation as if the worst were to occur it will be all ok. (well not for the people involved so much, but at least the insurance wont find a way to squirm out of paying).

WAAAAAAA

Im sure if i asked that question to any other reputable kite shop the answers would be forth coming without issue. Except to call me a knobhead because that sort of thing is assumed. But apparently not, this time we get silence.

WAAAAA

Also, if my questions were / are out of line im sure my post would have been moderated. None have as yet. Thats because my questions are normal questions any normal person would expect are covered by a business with a shop front. I really dont see it as a big issue, just get your ducks in a row.

Cheers

Just saw the post.

Ok first of all we don't teach in Altona.
We want to get a permit but not in the location you kite at, in fact way down the other end in the kite zoned area. We dont do massive runs of students like you have seen in other locations.
Injuries happen in sports but i think we can reduce them if people are taught properly and we dont teach in winds above 25knots. So we teach in 15-25knots and if the wind is unpredictable we cancel the lessons.
Yes of course we have insurance, we use the same insurance company that quite a few schools use in Australia.

Do you ride the Naish Torch? Blue/black? Please don't kite in the area past Romwai st near the pier, its not a launch or landing zone. There is a bin and a seat go south of that point if thats you.

Anyway you are more than welcome to come around to the shop and ask more questions if needed.
Yes your calculations are way out, we did 4 students today and 2 of them are going back overseas in a week but loved the lessons and got up on the board!

You do know there isn't any teaching going on in Altona
Don't you?

Owned by the facts, once again. Its a pitty how the actual facts get in the way of a good WAAAAAAAAA...............get a life.

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davem207 said...
Owned by the facts, once again. Its a pitty how the actual facts get in the way of a good WAAAAAAAAA...............get a life.

You don't read very well, do you?

He was actually right and therefore wasn't owned.

Manicskier, I'm glad that you, yourself admitted that your a massive knob.

Well worth the mention manic skier! This issue needed to be brought to attention if there are to be lessons anywhere around Altona.

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Saffer said...

davem207 said...
Owned by the facts, once again. Its a pitty how the actual facts get in the way of a good WAAAAAAAAA...............get a life.

You don't read very well, do you?

He was actually right and therefore wasn't owned.

Well you need to learn how to read too! as KSS made it quite clear they dont teach at Altona and thats what manicsickboy was getting his nickers in a knot over! so i suggest you all get down of your high horse, though in this occasion your high horse appears to be a shetland pony! im just against people not getting their facts straight and gobbing off, with no doubt some hidden agenda and trying to disrepute some retailer on this forum, and for the record ive never been to KSSor kited at Altona, so i dont have any affiliations except im against pompus tools. as my kite says to me, "Blow me".

They teach in Altona Meadows

No they don't , does this need to be in another language

Kss do not teach in Altona at all not even Altona meadows , they have to travel to surrounding beaches

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KSSALTONA said...
Just saw the post.

Ok first of all we don't teach in Altona.
We want to get a permit but not in the location you kite at, in fact way down the other end in the kite zoned area. We dont do massive runs of students like you have seen in other locations.
Injuries happen in sports but i think we can reduce them if people are taught properly and we dont teach in winds above 25knots. So we teach in 15-25knots and if the wind is unpredictable we cancel the lessons.
Yes of course we have insurance, we use the same insurance company that quite a few schools use in Australia.

Do you ride the Naish Torch? Blue/black? Please don't kite in the area past Romwai st near the pier, its not a launch or landing zone. There is a bin and a seat go south of that point if thats you.

Anyway you are more than welcome to come around to the shop and ask more questions if needed.
Yes your calculations are way out, we did 4 students today and 2 of them are going back overseas in a week but loved the lessons and got up on the board!

Hi, thanks for the reply and answering the questions i asked.

Firstly im not on a Naish and no i dont ride near the pier. I know the rules there.

So you dont teach in Altona. Is that currently or always, im sure i have seen lessons from red and green shirt instructors... maybe they were schools from StK, not sure. I have also heard that you teach/taught near by to Altona beach, in an unofficial location. not sure on the details as these are second hand. Either way you are teaching somewhere. as you say you did 4 students today. But where, on what councils land and with what permission. Are you sure your insurance is going to pay if an incident occurs?

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winter said...
You do know there isn't any teaching going on in Altona
Don't you?

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Peterdj said...
They teach in Altona Meadows

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markey said...
No they don't , does this need to be in another language

Kss do not teach in Altona at all not even Altona meadows , they have to travel to surrounding beaches

It doesnt matter where they teach, they admitted that they do, somewhere but still without permission or notification of the local council. Insurance companies love to wiggle their way out of paying. This is an open and shut case.

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davem207 said...
Owned by the facts, once again. Its a pitty how the actual facts get in the way of a good WAAAAAAAAA...............get a life.

Err dude, did you read that, they dont have a permit to teach, yet they are teaching. You are either very low on intelligence, employed by the business or trolling

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Taurus said...
Manicskier, I'm glad that you, yourself admitted that your a massive knob.

Well if asking those questions makes me a knob all good i take that. (didnt you see how i added the 'massive' for a little extra emphasis ;-)

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Big eeeZeee said...
Well worth the mention manic skier! This issue needed to be brought to attention if there are to be lessons anywhere around Altona.

Thanks mate

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davem207 said...

what manicsickboy was getting his nickers in a knot over!

not really, mostly that they are teaching without permission making insurance useless.
read that one line again, there is more to say but you wont be able to comprehend it so ill keep it simple for the little people like you

no ,what they said is they dont have permission to teach at altona , they teach at other beaches not controlled by altona council .

why not pop in the shop and have a chat if your that concerned , and not take second hand wrong information , then twist it to use on the forum

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markey said...
no ,what they said is they dont have permission to teach at altona , they teach at other beaches not controlled by altona council .

Yes i agree that is what was said (i dont agree that it is true but for this example lets assume it is) but the other beaches, who are they controlled by? they are controlled by someone, some council who given the option would probably prefer that you didnt conduct your private / profit driven lessons in the public space. And if you are to do so would like to charge for the privilege to pay for their own increased risk

one , why assume anything ? go and ask kss if it bothers you that much
two , i dont work for kss , so dont assume that either
three , do you have some hidden motive behind this thread ,

we have waited for so long to have a shop in altona , so why start this thread and try to cause trouble

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manicskier said...
Yes i agree that is what was said (i dont agree that it is true but for this example lets assume it is) but the other beaches, who are they controlled by? they are controlled by someone, some council who given the option would probably prefer that you didnt conduct your private / profit driven lessons in the public space. And if you are to do so would like to charge for the privilege to pay for their own increased risk

Well, in that case I recon the councils can start charging all the kiters for conducting potential dangerous activities in the public space? Let's not walk down that road. Or do you have a written permission to kite?

..and that will about do.

Sorry, these forums are not the place to be having 'kangaroo courts' about people or businesses.

manicskier - please PM or call Steve directly on 0405 626 318 -- or contact details via his website.

Hope it all pans out well for you.

Apologies, topic locked.