How long can a kitesurfer/surfer resist in the cold winter water in Sydney (middle of the winter)?

I am really curious, if I get in trouble and lose the kite, what time do I have to get back on the shore? 15, 20, 30, 45? What do you reckon?

And any suggestions on what gear to use? Life vest? Or any communication device to announce my location?

First a wetsuit helps alot!


...and a board short over the wettie will double the time and is very stylish when the Ambos have you on the stretcher and you are at the front page of the local newspaper...

Lots of factors to take into account, weight, build, muscle/fat mass, wetsuit, wind etc.

Saw the data on this the other day. It's not that long! Have a look on marine safety web site. Yells u how long for what water temp and other factors.

Ok, so how do you guys combat this? Besides having experience and being careful. Lets say one of the lines breaks and the kite gets super tangled. You are a good 500 m away from the shore. What do you do? Swim? Float on the kite?

I am asking all this because it happened to me to be caught in a nasty gust, got spanned and I don't know how, I got unhooked and also the safety leash was released (I really can't explain how that happened). I had to swim in the cold water for like 10 minutes (maybe, I am not sure), I barely made it back.

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Mikedobee said...

How long can a kitesurfer/surfer resist in the cold winter water in Sydney (middle of the winter)?

I am really curious, if I get in trouble and lose the kite, what time do I have to get back on the shore? 15, 20, 30, 45? What do you reckon?

And any suggestions on what gear to use? Life vest? Or any communication device to announce my location?

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Odkite said...

Saw the data on this the other day. It's not that long! Have a look on marine safety web site. Yells u how long for what water temp and other factors.

I think I've got the data at work but I'm on a day off so tried to find it on the net, needless to say with the water temp off Manly at 19.1 degrees today ( I could find that bit) you'd want a decent wettie if you punched out and dumped the kite.

Not sure what communication device you are thinking, EPIRB's/PLB/s might work, but I understand most of the boat ones auto-deploy when immersed, pointless if they go off everytime you stack it. PLB's are not really intended for marine, Plus the response time as the message goes via sattelite through to RCC in Canberra, then state Police, then they might verify that you are missing and its not stolen/malicious or an accidental activation by phoning your emergency contacts. Then they activate water police, airwing or local sea rescue to come look for you, that takes time etc etc.

Mobile phone in a waterproof case. Sounds great until you are fatigued and in a two metres swell with only your head above water. Try opening that case, keeping the phone dry and making a call under those circumstances.

Possibly flares might work, but how will you carry them and rely on cold fingers to open the packet and set them off?

Maybe a plastic whistle clipped to your harness is a simple, cheap and effective option? might help alerting other kiters/poleys to your predicament?

But the best safety device you can carry out kiting is common sense.

Kite with others, let someone know when and where you are kiting so you will be noticed missing. And now you know how far you can swim in but end up on the beach exhausted, only kite half that distance out.

you shouldn't be 500m from shore if you are asking these questions. stay much closer in. and you should learn to do a self rescue, because it will happen again...

I know how to self rescue in normal conditions, but how can I self rescue if the kite flies away?! Should I swim trying to catch it?! I don't think I can be that "cold blooded" to do that.

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stamp said...

you shouldn't be 500m from shore if you are asking these questions. stay much closer in. and you should learn to do a self rescue, because it will happen again...

I'd ditch the kite (life first), hook knife lines maybe save the bar.
Impact vest and a helmet will give you some extra warmth plus a good wetsuit. Ditch the harness too if its in the way and paddle your board in, at least in most places the swell is pushing towards the beach.

Mikedobee how old was your kite? Was their any sign of line wear?
Were you in the surf or the bay?

IMO if you are new to kiting it's better to be using a new kite. I know others say that you will trash it so get a second hand one, but at least you know it's going to be safe.

Be carefull what conditions you go out in in winter. I have been kiting a few years in Sydney and have seen some real doozies from new kiters because of tricky conditions.

Make sure your not kiting alone so there is someone to keep an eye on you. Ask them if you need to. If there is no one else out there is probably a good reason for it.

And finally always try to self rescue if possible. Look up previous threads. Paddling on top of your kite rolled up and struts inflated is much easier to see and easier to paddle.

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Mikedobee said...

Ok, so how do you guys combat this? Besides having experience and being careful. Lets say one of the lines breaks and the kite gets super tangled. You are a good 500 m away from the shore. What do you do? Swim? Float on the kite?

I am asking all this because it happened to me to be caught in a nasty gust, got spanned and I don't know how, I got unhooked and also the safety leash was released (I really can't explain how that happened). I had to swim in the cold water for like 10 minutes (maybe, I am not sure), I barely made it back.

Mikedobee said...

How long can a kitesurfer/surfer resist in the cold winter water in Sydney (middle of the winter)?

I am really curious, if I get in trouble and lose the kite, what time do I have to get back on the shore? 15, 20, 30, 45? What do you reckon?

And any suggestions on what gear to use? Life vest? Or any communication device to announce my location?

champ to be honest you should probably wait till the season starts ,get more experience and kite with others..... mainly to save taxpayer's money on search
and rescue

chris6791 is on the money

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anoldman said...

I'd ditch the kite (life first),

What? so your 500m out to sea and you ditch your primary floatation device?

weirdo.

self rescue is the safest method if you still have the kite attached kite.

i wear booties gloves hoodie helmet and 4/3 wettie i'd expect to last quite a while before getting too cold. at least as long as a surfer surfing.

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Mikedobee said...

I know how to self rescue in normal conditions, but how can I self rescue if the kite flies away?! Should I swim trying to catch it?! I don't think I can be that "cold blooded" to do that.

stamp said...

you shouldn't be 500m from shore if you are asking these questions. stay much closer in. and you should learn to do a self rescue, because it will happen again...

simple really ...dont kite further out than you are prepared to and capable of swimming.
If you are not comfortable you shouldnt be that far out. and remember it is a lot harder swimming 500m to 1km in the ocean than it is in a pool.
If you are in a wetsuit and are actively swimming you should last at least a few hours...you will probably be exhausted though.

Stay with your kite and self rescue either packdown or use it as a sail lying on one wingtip...
If its offshore and your kite is stuffed dont waste time attempting to packdown roll up and paddle ...ditch it and start swimming before you drift even further out. ( unless of course you are not that far out )

If you need to phone for help or use an epirb you are going to be regarded as a muppet for being out beyond your capabilities ( serious accident aside )

We all have to take responsibilites for our own actions...

Ten bucks says he had a North kite that had a line breakage, Hunksa****

This tragic story shows that even with a lot of neoprene and a floatation jacket, lying on your kite to keep out of the water and the autorities being alerted, it may still not be enough. You have to rely on yourself to make the right decisions at the right time.

kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2344200&hilit=fatality

If your left without your kite 500m out - Riding a Surfboard can help, TT,s have no float.

Ok, everybody, push the break for a second. I wasn't 500 m away. I would never be 500 m away (unless there is a boat that stays next to me). I purely said theoretically, for the people that go 500 m away).

In my case, I was only 70-100 (maybe?!) when that little incident happened. 500 m in this cold water, I would've been shark bate by now.

I was just curious how long a person can survive in the cold winter water in Sydney. That's all.

The kite was brand new. (used it probably 3 times before).

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Mikedobee said...

How long can a kitesurfer/surfer resist in the cold winter water in Sydney (middle of the winter)?

I am really curious, if I get in trouble and lose the kite, what time do I have to get back on the shore? 15, 20, 30, 45? What do you reckon?

And any suggestions on what gear to use? Life vest? Or any communication device to announce my location?

Brand new 2012 Crazy Fly MooWii 13.
No sign of tear. It just got unhooked and the safety leash too. I checked it literally 10 minutes before I got in the water. Everything was ok.

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Nuking said...

Mikedobee how old was your kite? Was their any sign of line wear?
Were you in the surf or the bay?

IMO if you are new to kiting it's better to be using a new kite. I know others say that you will trash it so get a second hand one, but at least you know it's going to be safe.

Be carefull what conditions you go out in in winter. I have been kiting a few years in Sydney and have seen some real doozies from new kiters because of tricky conditions.

Make sure your not kiting alone so there is someone to keep an eye on you. Ask them if you need to. If there is no one else out there is probably a good reason for it.

And finally always try to self rescue if possible. Look up previous threads. Paddling on top of your kite rolled up and struts inflated is much easier to see and easier to paddle.

Yeah..... I know, I am actually looking into getting a surfboard. How long should the board be for kitesurfing?! I've never surfed in my life.

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toppleover said...

If your left without your kite 500m out - Riding a Surfboard can help, TT,s have no float.

From my experience doing laps in sluggo's in 16deg, I think you would last well over an hour with wetsuit on if you keep moving. Should be able to do couple of Ks in that time.
I reckon 15 minutes max to swim 500mt in full wetsuit if you can't do that my advice is stay closer to shore.

Given that the average surf session would be at least two hours, sitting still most of the time, submerged up to your chest, I reckon with a decent winter wetsuit you could easily survive 4-6 hours in the water. Maybe as much as 8 hours.

That's in Vic. Maybe longer further North. Shorter in Tassie. I use a 4/3 sealed seam wettie.

500 metres isn't far. If you can't swim that far what are you doing riding out there? Freestyle is best but in a good wetsuit you could dog paddle in from 500m in less than 30 minutes.

FWIW tthere was a case in Taswegia back last century where a surfer surfing by himself (yes it was possible once) . was knocked unconscious somewhere isolated near Burnie I think. He survived in the water for several hours 4+ (fortunately he was on his back) until he regained consciousness and was rescued. THe wet suit company (might have been piping hot -must have been the eighties) were claiming that the wetty saved his life by preventing hypothermia. THe medicos reckoned that without it the body would have shut down within 30 mins.

For winter water ,20 degrees suiting up is a must.

After getting torn a new one by the missus when she thought I was lost at sea when learning to kite, a waterproof floating marine radio clipped to your belt works fine if you are ever out kiting by yourself..........just call up air/sea rescue if you are in trouble........or whatever your local version is. Of course you need to know roughly where the heck you are to get them to pick you up

the coldest i have been was in wellington. water temp was about 8 or 9 deg and it was a southerly with wind chill around 0. i had a 4/3 wettie and didn't have booties, hoodies or gloves.

I lasted and hour before i started to crash the kite and make stupid mistake.... dman it was cold. i think hypothermia was setting in. I call it a day got changed shivering like 40 basstards jumped in the car with the heater on full blast and didn't warm properly until 3 hours later....

brrrrr.

The most important thing is not to panic. I agree with what most of you said. With a good wetsuit, a good couple of hours in Sydney's waters nowdays. However, I am pretty sure that if you panic, 30 minutes you are dead.

I am getting a new life/impact vest. My wetsuit is 3/5. Is that a good one? What is the thickest?

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Mikedobee said...

The most important thing is not to panic. I agree with what most of you said. With a good wetsuit, a good couple of hours in Sydney's waters nowdays. However, I am pretty sure that if you panic, 30 minutes you are dead.

I am getting a new life/impact vest. My wetsuit is 3/5. Is that a good one? What is the thickest?

Something like

Xcel Infinity 2013 6/5 mm hooded X-zip 2

I have a similar O'Neill one. I would suggest the Xcel as its designed for surfing so probably a bit freer in movement for swimming in if you have to. They are very warm. It depends on the person and how hard they are working as to what effect low temperatures have on you, but this is about as warm as wetsuits go.
http://www.xcelwetsuits.com/products/us/surf

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terminal said...

Mikedobee said...

The most important thing is not to panic. I agree with what most of you said. With a good wetsuit, a good couple of hours in Sydney's waters nowdays. However, I am pretty sure that if you panic, 30 minutes you are dead.

I am getting a new life/impact vest. My wetsuit is 3/5. Is that a good one? What is the thickest?

Something like

Xcel Infinity 2013 6/5 mm hooded X-zip 2

I have a similar O'Neill one. I would suggest the Xcel as its designed for surfing so probably a bit freer in movement for swimming in if you have to. They are very warm. It depends on the person and how hard they are working as to what effect low temperatures have on you, but this is about as warm as wetsuits go.

With that amount of flotation, you may not need the impact vest if its for warmth?

http://www.xcelwetsuits.com/products/us/surf

A couple of years ago I had a line snap on me a loooooong way out in Nelson bay. On the hawks nest side. Wind was onshore so I didn't stress too much..... Except for shark fear
This was with a fly surfer.... Not inflato.
Used my leash to tie the board to me after I wound up the lines. Held the kite in the wind and got dragged in. It was over an hour and the water was damn cold. Maybe 16 degrees. About 100m from shore I thought I would swim the rest of the way coz I was getting damn cold. Rolled up the kite and swam about 3 meters before I cramped. Worst cramp ever. Pretty much every muscle. Ended up just drifting in.
I was only in a long John and a couple of rashies.

Walked home and inhaled half a block of chocolate and 2 beers . Then jumped In a hot shower.... Ouch! The fingers and toes felt like they were on fire.

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Mikedobee said...

The most important thing is not to panic. I agree with what most of you said. With a good wetsuit, a good couple of hours in Sydney's waters nowdays. However, I am pretty sure that if you panic, 30 minutes you are dead.

I am getting a new life/impact vest. My wetsuit is 3/5. Is that a good one? What is the thickest?

it's sydney- not tassie or south africa. a 4/3 will be more than enough to keep you warm. any thicker and you'll get too hot kiting. you're right about panicking, but that is because you will simply get exhausted and drown, nothing to do with the cold.
with a 4/3 steamer you could spend the rest of the winter floating around botany bay on an inner tube and still not die from hypothermia.

just having a laugh to myself , the temperatures you guys are talking sounds like a tropical paradise to a pom , aussies dont do cold thats a fact, dont blame you cold weather sucks, -42 with the wind chill is the coldest conditions ive been in in norway, ive just read an article on sebastian copeland pulling himself and 200kg of kit across the the antarctic in average temps of -30 to -40, with winds of 40knts, using an ozone foil as his propulsion and covering over 4000kms in 80 days, it redifines the meaning of cold