I'm looking for opinions on whether buying older model kites is a good strategy. I'm currently riding 2012 North Vegas, which I moved to after a few years with the 2011 North Rebel. I love the Vegas but feel it's time to try something different and recently purchased a 2014 Slingshot RPM because it theoretically sits in the middle of the two kites that I already own and I wanted to try something from a different brand. However, I'm not getting any joy from the RPM so am still looking for something new.

I recently had the opportunity to ride an Ozone Enduro V1 and was blown away by the quality and how smooth the kite flies. It felt like it has been designed by aeronautical engineers. Is this an Ozone thing or a factor of kite design having improved recently?

Am I selling myself short by not looking at the latest kite models?

Buy a new ozone edge V9.
Youll come in your pants....
There that good.

oh most defiantly an ozone thing and they never break either.

Because pretty sure that's what you wanna hear right....

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eppo said..
oh most defiantly an ozone thing and they never break either.

Because pretty sure that's what you wanna hear right....

Not really I want you to tell me that the cheapest kite I can find is also guaranteed to be the best!

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bombjack said..
I'm looking for opinions on whether buying older model kites is a good strategy. I'm currently riding 2012 North Vegas, which I moved to after a few years with the 2011 North Rebel. I love the Vegas but feel it's time to try something different and recently purchased a 2014 Slingshot RPM because it theoretically sits in the middle of the two kites that I already own and I wanted to try something from a different brand. However, I'm not getting any joy from the RPM so am still looking for something new.

I recently had the opportunity to ride an Ozone Enduro V1 and was blown away by the quality and how smooth the kite flies. It felt like it has been designed by aeronautical engineers. Is this an Ozone thing or a factor of kite design having improved recently?

Am I selling myself short by not looking at the latest kite models?

I Moved on from the 2015 RPM 14 12 10 8 6 to the 2018 Enduro V2 12 10 8 mainly because i was blown away. everything about the RPM was great but the Enduro just did it better in all aspected bar one, i found that unhooking was just slightly better on the RPM but only slightly

Kites are like wetsuits, every time you buy a new one its always sooo much better than the old one.

That being said, every couple of years kites have been getting better balanced, smoother and easier to use, but it is little by little.

Well alright fair enough....

big difference between 2011/12 and 2017/18 kites. Sure incremental improvements but over 6 or years have made a difference. If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself.

But kidding yourself can make the exercise a lot cheaper.

Then again I'm sure a 2011 kite would do just fine for 99 percent of riders.

Nice to get new shiny things ....

Heaps better, you should be upgrading every 6 months

Thank you.

Pretty sure you will find just about any new kite will feel leaps and bounds better then a 2011 kite. Not to say a 2011 is no good, but there will definetly be a difference

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Greenarrowz said..
Buy a new ozone edge V9.
Youll come in your pants....
There that good.

Would that classify your kite as a blowzone not an ozone

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Greenarrowz said..
Buy a new ozone edge V9.
Youll come in your pants....
There that good.

Well to be fair, if you dump your 13m V8 Edge in the surf. Roll it round a bit stretching the bridles and blowing out a bladder.

Any new Kite will feel good.

But alas that new Kite feel never lasts. One day an 11m V9 edge is a one Kite quiver (freakish bottom end and unlimited top). But after a few uses it loosens up........ Now I need 13 V9 edge.......Now I need 8m V9 edge. Sounds a lot like retail therapy or words from a sponsored rider.

My local has many versions of the ozone edge. Nice Kite but doesn't float my boat. I don't see any great difference in the last few years, it's incrimental at best and definitely not a step change.

I regularly see older versions going bigger over the new.

For sure, everything's dumbed down for the masses of middle aged couch potatoes who now think kiting's a good idea.

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bombjack said..
Am I selling myself short by not looking at the latest kite models?

Kite models generally improve every year, some years the changes can be huge and other years the changes can be pretty minor tweaks. We normally find that anyone upgrading 3+ years will notice a pretty massive difference in performance. 2011/12 to 2018 will blow you away.

If you loved the Vegas you should give the North Dice a shot, depending what you like about it of course but the Dice has a very smooth feel similar to the Vegas. Most of the people I know who liked the older style Vegas (pre-2014) went to the Dice and are loving it.

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eppo said..
For sure, everything's dumbed down for the masses of middle aged couch potatoes who now think kiting's a good idea.

What is yr story. You are a middle age fker by my piecing together of yr vintage.

you got any footage of you tearing it up, would hate to think its not quite real like santa clause

If you had been kiting long enough you'd know my story... middle aged and clapped out for sure.

kites are getting better every year. Are they worth the cost...that's up to you really.

Have kites improved much? short answer no. They have not. Of course, the kitepowers of the world will tell you off mind-blowing performance every year. None the less a 2011 kite can still do the same job as a 2018 kite.

I guess some brands that had **** models of kites will have gotten a lot better, Switch kites as an example were ****house, now they have risen to ok.

What has happened is that kites have gotten more specific. If you think the change in performance is mind blowing it probably the fact that the kite more specifically suits your style than previous.

My recent example is comparing 2017 and 2018 enduro to my old clapped out 2012 catalyst. Was I blown away? no. was the kite better? it was both better and worse. Better at boosting, worse for foiling.

My advice. Don't replace your old kites unless they are worn out or you feel the need to try a different style of kite that is more specialized to your style.

It's so hard to tell if it's an actual improvement, or just that it's not flogged when you try a new kite.
If you have an ancient kite and put in on a new bar, it can be amazing how much better it works with equal line lengths

Another thing to try is making your old kites faster by shortening line length.
There's a guy at my local who has lines so short and kites so old that he just looks like he's walking on water with a giant muffin on his head.

I still rate my old 2010 Vegas 9m as my favourite kite ever. I wish I still had it, but I rode it until it was in shreds.

I'd buy another if some old stock was discovered

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Plummet said..
Have kites improved much? short answer no. They have not. Of course, the kitepowers of the world will tell you off mind-blowing performance every year. None the less a 2011 kite can still do the same job as a 2018 kite.

I guess some brands that had **** models of kites will have gotten a lot better, Switch kites as an example were ****house, now they have risen to ok.

What has happened is that kites have gotten more specific. If you think the change in performance is mind blowing it probably the fact that the kite more specifically suits your style than previous.

My recent example is comparing 2017 and 2018 enduro to my old clapped out 2012 catalyst. Was I blown away? no. was the kite better? it was both better and worse. Better at boosting, worse for foiling.

My advice. Don't replace your old kites unless they are worn out or you feel the need to try a different style of kite that is more specialized to your style.

The enduro is a huge step up from the catalyst, especially in freeride and freestyle setting
and I've owned cats from their first model, Carnt comment on the v1 but the latest is a great bit of kit, you do have to change backline and bridal settings to get what you want, freestyle and free ride with shortest backline and fastest turning is my preference, the setting are there to use , straight out the bag at factory setting is free ride, med turning and longer backline, all up you have 9 settings on the enduro v2 and that's not adding the trim, and changing the settings takes seconds, the difference from wave to freestyle is huge
It's great having these options on your kite , yes kites have and do improve over the years and now and then go backwards, some of us still have our fave kites, c4 2012, Vegas 2013, edge race series etc etc , would I go back to my wipikas matrix and indys, erghhh nah

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cauncy said..

Plummet said..
Have kites improved much? short answer no. They have not. Of course, the kitepowers of the world will tell you off mind-blowing performance every year. None the less a 2011 kite can still do the same job as a 2018 kite.

I guess some brands that had **** models of kites will have gotten a lot better, Switch kites as an example were ****house, now they have risen to ok.

What has happened is that kites have gotten more specific. If you think the change in performance is mind blowing it probably the fact that the kite more specifically suits your style than previous.

My recent example is comparing 2017 and 2018 enduro to my old clapped out 2012 catalyst. Was I blown away? no. was the kite better? it was both better and worse. Better at boosting, worse for foiling.

My advice. Don't replace your old kites unless they are worn out or you feel the need to try a different style of kite that is more specialized to your style.

The enduro is a huge step up from the catalyst, especially in freeride and freestyle setting
and I've owned cats from their first model, Carnt comment on the v1 but the latest is a great bit of kit, you do have to change backline and bridal settings to get what you want, freestyle and free ride with shortest backline and fastest turning is my preference, the setting are there to use , straight out the bag at factory setting is free ride, med turning and longer backline, all up you have 9 settings on the enduro v2 and that's not adding the trim, and changing the settings takes seconds, the difference from wave to freestyle is huge
It's great having these options on your kite , yes kites have and do improve over the years and now and then go backwards, some of us still have our fave kites, c4 2012, Vegas 2013, edge race series etc etc , would I go back to my wipikas matrix and indys, erghhh nah

That sorta proves my point. Enduro has gotten better than the old cat at some aspects, but worse in others. It is now a more specific kite tailored towards free/ride freestyle. It has gotten heavier and better at jumping. But the sacrifice is light wind and wave performance. It drifts worse and falls out of the sky sooner in lulls.

So.... for the free rider/freestyler its a great improvement because it more specifically suits their needs.

If I was TT only boosting as you do I would agree that it is much better than the old cats. But I now also require a kite that flys well in ultralight wind and drifts well. For that, the lighter old catalyst is better than the heavier more robust enduro.

My 2007 Fuel was the best kite ever. It was hard to beat 5 line no bridal. This was a fact proven by science.

I rode a bundle of kites after that weren't as good.

This year I've got a 7m Eleveight that I think actually may be better.

So they improve every 11 years.

If kites improve its pretty much down to the designer coming across something that seems to work better.
maybe by design or fluke.
maybe by pinching another kite's Tech, who knows but it can happen.
the other side is kite companies pushing for a marketing edge, that game changer to put on next seasons brochure.
maybe half the advertised improvements are true improvements, the trick is knowing which half.
all that aside, your 2-3 yo kite has lost some performance so even putting up the exact same kite but New will shock you.

From a beginner to intermediate & 2nd hand kite owner point of view; the 2016/17 model kites I am now using are significantly more stable, fun to ride & easier to use for learning to jump/transition/etc. than the 2013 model kites I had been learning to progress with and they were a step up from the cheap 2011 models, first kites I bought to learn the basics with.

I think it depends on your level of experience and confidence, find a kite you like that gives you confidence to try more jumps/tricks or whatever you're into.

The V1 catalyst is a nice kite to use, I have an 8m and a 12m and both have me jumping twice as high with more hang time than the 2013 cats. I haven't used many other brands but after lending them to very experienced kiter friend, was told they were similar to the Rebel.

Am I the only kook riding pre-2010 kites and still finding them fun to ride?! There is a lot of that "keeping up with the Jones" when it comes to kite gear... but really.. the handling and use/skill comes from the rider - no so much the kite.

The V1 catalyst is a nice kite to use, ........lending them to very experienced kiter friend, was told they were similar to the Rebel.




Dear god I give up!!!

Hi guys,

A new kite will always feel amazing. Putting aside the advances in materials and the ever so slight tweaks to improve performance, you won't notice the gradual degredation over time as it's so slow.

All kites gradually lose their crisp performance over time. It's impossible to avoid if you use your kite. Sun exposure, sand and salt exposure will all degrade the kite, but none more so than the sun exposure. It's a bit like boiling a toad in water, the performance loss is so gradual that you don't feel it.

I know there are guys out there riding old model kites that they have had forever and they still crow about how good it is, but if you flew the exact same kite which had never been flown, you'd be blown away by the difference in upwind, hangtime, speed and general performance of the new one.

You can definitely fly older kites for many years, but they aren't a patch on what they were like when they were new. You probably won't be able to tell the performance differences between two new models one year apart ie (2017 vs 2018), but if you fly the 2017 everyday and then jump on a new 2018, the difference will be noticeable

Best way to see if the new kites are any better than what you are riding is to drop into your fave retail store and grab a demo of the kite you are interested in and try for yourself.

DM

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Richoa said..

eppo said..
For sure, everything's dumbed down for the masses of middle aged couch potatoes who now think kiting's a good idea.

What is yr story. You are a middle age fker by my piecing together of yr vintage.

you got any footage of you tearing it up, would hate to think its not quite real like santa clause

Hmmmmm, whoa whoa whoa junior. You are addressing the Ayatollah of rock and rolla, the chosen one. Who is in possession of one, if not, the most comprehensive understandings of kite equipment on this planet.

Please exit the building and re think how one of such stature deservers to be addressed.

Rant over, as you were boffins.

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Plummet said..

If I was TT only boosting as you do I would agree that it is much better than the old cats. But I now also require a kite that flys well in ultralight wind and drifts well. For that, the lighter old catalyst is better than the heavier more robust enduro.

To be fair the Enduro is a very light weight kite

12m = 3.08 kg
10m = 2.70 kg
6m = 2.18 kg

Thats on par with current single strut kites.

I accept your point though that the focus has changed (sort of he gives with one hand and takes with the other) and that's the rub of kite design. Make one thing better and chances are you make it worse at something else.

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weebitbreezy said.

I accept your point though that the focus has changed (sort of he gives with one hand and takes with the other) and that's the rub of kite design. Make one thing better and chances are you make it worse at something else.

Yeah. I think that's the crux of changes in the last 6 years. Sure there is slight improvements in materials and overall performance. But the main difference is kites are more specialist towards specific tasks. Making them real good for that task but maybe not so good at others.

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eppo said...
Dear god I give up!!!

I'm not a religious man so may have missed your point. I think it's great to have opinions from all you experienced guys, just occasionally its useful to hear from people on the learning journey.

Perhaps they'd be willing to contribute more if they weren't always burnt at the stake for offering an opinion.

New kites smell better
id put it up there with
Leather in a new car
Great coffee
Fresh bread
and class pussy