Main advancements in kitesurfing have been kites as the kite is what gives propulsion. Different profiles etc.
Yet anyone any good can have fun with any kite.
So how does a ball or a clicky thing change the game? As you got more experienced you can edge harder, go faster and higher. So how does a bar make you a better kiter?

Do they make you kite any better or easier?

The answer it doesn't and they aren't. It's just marketing hype.

The ball think is a bit silly in my opinion. it means you have to run propriatary harness and bar..... Which is what the company is aim for. You are locked into there gear. Fark off I say.

The clicker bar is interesting But needs to be simpler. Too much internal moving parts. Having to twist to power up is too slow in my opinion. But push button depower is good idea. Will it still be working in 5 years time when rusted and covered in sand?

SO here is the argument FOR each tech (does not mean I want it or am planning to pay for it):

Cabrinha Fireball - It gives the attachment point of the harness the ability to rotate and flex in whichever direction it needs to vs the CL/CD setup that does not offer this flex. This in turn leads to the harness not riding up or getting out of position. Its a cleaner solution than a sliding rope and offers a more 3D solution than the sliding rope. A game changer for an experienced rider? No. For a beginner, its prob helpful. THe problem: The compay is trying to push people into their proprietary technology and squeeze people for cashola.

North ClickBar - Lots of improvements for the bar control system (multiple V adjustments for the lines, clicker trim system, open autoswivel, etc.) to solve alot of the control bar issues people are having. A necessity? No. A nicer, cleaner system: Yes. I dont need this as an experienced rider, but some of these things would be nice. The adjustable V is something I would like, altho I am not certain how much of an ongoing need that is vs a short term setup to test out different V configs for dif kites to figure out what it does and how I like my kites setup. Eg, do I want a lower V for wakestyle and highiger Y for hooked in high wind looping session? Is there a universal split that works best? etc.

If we never change anything we will never progress. To be fair its priced richly atm, but let 5 more companies come out with something similar and in 3-4 years the improvements become free.

testers claim the mechanism has remained sand free after years of abuse. Lets see it go to market and see where we are in three years, after we can verify that claim in additiion to having reduced purchase cost.

As far as only the kite mattering, I disagree. One of the greatest improvements in this sport was the invention of the Chicken Loop with the flag out system. Right now, my dream kite exists but my dream bar does not and I find myself hating my kite's designer due to overlooking necessary bar/lines improvements.

Do you need it? I say no, let it come down in price and let the mechanism test itself out on nooblet buyers for a couple of years. Persoanlly, I have always just loved ATB trim though - I like being able to power up and down quickly as I am very sensitive to weak low end (I rarely depower tho, mostly just for landing and launching).

Select to expand quote

dracop said..

Right now, my dream kite exists but my dream bar does not and I find myself hating my kite's designer due to overlooking necessary bar/lines improvements.

What is your dream bar? Explain the details please :)

A bar with lines that wont break on me every other session, easy to use and functional trim, a swivel that actually works, a sliding stopper that actually works, a CL that is decent, a Double Safety ring, and finally, Oh Sheet handles on the steering as well as the fifth line (cause I dont like touching lines in 50 kts just to relaunch a kite!). Is that too much to ask?

I know when the first 5th line came out, it blew my mind.
People were skeptical but it was so much safer and easier to use.The click bar is not for everyone but it will surely change the way we look at bars in the future.

If you dont like it, you could always go back to this death trap?

game changer: A kite that uses nano robots to morph state of the art nano particles at command, into different sizes and geometry. (including a paraglider when required)..with lines and bars made from the same material that can also alter in real time, controlled by an augmented reality head set...which relays real time footage to an app accessed by those that want to see some elses session from a different place on the globe.

The rest...no game changer per say. But marketers will be marketers.

Personally if you are serious you NEED a quad tex kite, run on a fireball system with a clicker bar....lol.

GAME CHANGERRRRRRRRRSSSSSSS....

Select to expand quote

dracop said..
A bar with lines that wont break on me every other session, easy to use and functional trim, a swivel that actually works, a sliding stopper that actually works, a CL that is decent, a Double Safety ring, and finally, Oh Sheet handles on the steering as well as the fifth line (cause I dont like touching lines in 50 kts just to relaunch a kite!). Is that too much to ask?

I have a bar with all that except the oh **** handles...what bar are you using that lines break every other session?

The only true "game changer" will be when a kite can fly and pull someone around 80kg in anything between 2knots and 32knots or more. One size, one kite, one bar, end of story.

Select to expand quote

JOYRIDER said..
I know when the first 5th line came out, it blew my mind.
People were skeptical but it was so much safer and easier to use.The click bar is not for everyone but it will surely change the way we look at bars in the future.

If you dont like it, you could always go back to this death trap?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that for a second? for me the argument is simply will it improve MY riding? No it wont! and that's i'm more inclined to drop 1K on something that dose improve my riding and or makes it more user friendly?

The Game Changer,

when something fairly simple is made unnecessarily complex,

and where solutions are found for problems that never existed.

lol.

Select to expand quote

DanozDirect said..
The only true "game changer" will be when a kite can fly and pull someone around 80kg in anything between 2knots and 32knots or more. One size, one kite, one bar, end of story.

After all, isn't the kite's function to allow you to do "stuff"!? ie: tricks, special moves, mowing the lawn even?
Who even looks at their kite when they're really kite surfing anyway?
No one.

Select to expand quote

DanozDirect said..
The only true "game changer" will be when a kite can fly and pull someone around 80kg in anything between 2knots and 32knots or more. One size, one kite, one bar, end of story.

That's not far off with a hydrofoil. I can ride in 12-35 knots quite happily with a 7m kite. It's a bit of a nuisance when the wind drops below 10 knots but it's fairly easy to wait for a puff to get going.

Select to expand quote

dracop said..
A bar with lines that wont break on me every other session, easy to use and functional trim, a swivel that actually works, a sliding stopper that actually works, a CL that is decent, a Double Safety ring, and finally, Oh Sheet handles on the steering as well as the fifth line (cause I dont like touching lines in 50 kts just to relaunch a kite!). Is that too much to ask?

450KG center lines and 400kg side lines check
Clam cleat racing is a great trim, with easy to reach velcro strap for no flappy. check
Sliding stopper check ( with adjustable friction levels) ( works on PU and non PU lines, bar comes with PU and non PU lines. check
Double Safety ring. check
Oh Sheet handles on the steerin. I have seen nubes pull these and go into death loops? most bars have removed this due to saftey. do you need this?
Add 20m + 5m lines highest quality. check
Add short throw and long throw in 1 bar. check
Soft bar ends for face and board protection. check
Easy Adjustable short or far V setup on the 1 bar to work on any kite. check
Reversible pig tails to work on any kite setup. check
Easily replaceable parts available from most marine shops. check
Single center line flagging system. check
Optional 5th line atachment. check
below bar swivel with push away. check
Above bar swivel. uncheck, i have not found any that work, and they can tangle up the lines, can be a saftey issue
Under $400. check.

The above bar should arrive in AUS Spain and france about 1-2 weeks.

Need to think about o sheet handles, most brands have removed these for a reason, but I can understand about touching lines in 50 knots. What about thicker side lines?
Also above bar swivels don't work well after a short time. and can tangle, prefer not to have them if you have a below bar swivel.

Would that work for you?

"Game Changing" is obviously a bit of marketing copy writer hype. Hopefully the guys testing these new things came out of the water and said, "Wow! ...." and that led to some excitement inside the companies. It's a little scary when two companies come out with the same slogan for the same class of product at the same time.

On the plus side, the Fireball does get the tow point closer to your body and does reduce the chance of foul hooking (which happens frequently), and does reduce the complexity in the spreader bar when compared to Dynabar and stuff. Shackles do a similar job but are hugely unreliable. The only problem is it is not really compatible with existing spreader bars. It would be a pity that companies cannot innovate just because of an entrenched, arguably inferior technology. If it is demonstrably better then people will find a way of making it work for them.

The Clicker bar solves possibly a heap more problems. You have above the bar, below the bar, 3 lines through the bar, cleats, ladder lock buckles, enclosed lines, line wear, 5th line, mini-5th, single line, high-Y, low-Y, trimmers out of reach, tension bungees on safety lines, wear on all those lines and the risk of tangles. And bars not compatible across different brands and styles of kite. All that disappears by putting a simple, enclosed adjuster on the rear lines.

While you would think it would be super complicated, the videos show it is not so complicated at all. It is a tad expensive, but not much more expensive than high end bars from name kite brands. It remains to be seen whether it is reliable and robust as is claimed. It is a bit of a pity there is no length adjustment. Some of my kites don't like to be flown on a long bar. I suppose I could get used to it with practice.

Select to expand quote

KiteDesigner said..

dracop said..
A bar with lines that wont break on me every other session, easy to use and functional trim, a swivel that actually works, a sliding stopper that actually works, a CL that is decent, a Double Safety ring, and finally, Oh Sheet handles on the steering as well as the fifth line (cause I dont like touching lines in 50 kts just to relaunch a kite!). Is that too much to ask?

450KG center lines and 400kg side lines check
Clam cleat racing is a great trim, with easy to reach velcro strap for no flappy. check
Sliding stopper check ( with adjustable friction levels) ( works on PU and non PU lines, bar comes with PU and non PU lines. check
Double Safety ring. check
Oh Sheet handles on the steerin. I have seen nubes pull these and go into death loops? most bars have removed this due to saftey. do you need this?
Add 20m + 5m lines highest quality. check
Add short throw and long throw in 1 bar. check
Soft bar ends for face and board protection. check
Easy Adjustable short or far V setup on the 1 bar to work on any kite. check
Reversible pig tails to work on any kite setup. check
Easily replaceable parts available from most marine shops. check
Single center line flagging system. check
Optional 5th line atachment. check
below bar swivel with push away. check
Above bar swivel. uncheck, i have not found any that work, and they can tangle up the lines, can be a saftey issue
Under $400. check.

The above bar should arrive in AUS Spain and france about 1-2 weeks.

Need to think about o sheet handles, most brands have removed these for a reason, but I can understand about touching lines in 50 knots. What about thicker side lines?
Also above bar swivels don't work well after a short time. and can tangle, prefer not to have them if you have a below bar swivel.

Would that work for you?

that sounds exciting... and well priced... what is bar is that?

Select to expand quote

waveslave said..
The Game Changer,

when something fairly simple is made unnecessarily complex,

and where solutions are found for problems that never existed.

lol.

We solved the problem!

what was the problem?

not sure but its solved!

couldn't agree more!!

Select to expand quote

raggy said..

JOYRIDER said..
I know when the first 5th line came out, it blew my mind.
People were skeptical but it was so much safer and easier to use.The click bar is not for everyone but it will surely change the way we look at bars in the future.

If you dont like it, you could always go back to this death trap?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that for a second? for me the argument is simply will it improve MY riding? No it wont! and that's i'm more inclined to drop 1K on something that dose improve my riding and or makes it more user friendly?

I'm not saying go and buy one, im just keen to see if all the skeptics are proven wrong in 5 years when it maybe becomes the norm.

than wait and see what happens? if its a good thing then it will shine through? like any developments and progression? wait till the marking **** goes away and joe blogs has had one for a few seasons has bent it broken it and abused it? and as they say " never buy the first of anything"

They have to change some thing each year so they can sell dumb dumb's more equipment and say its the shiz nit.... 1k+ for a bar and line's LOL...

Select to expand quote

JOYRIDER said..
I know when the first 5th line came out, it blew my mind.
People were skeptical but it was so much safer and easier to use.The click bar is not for everyone but it will surely change the way we look at bars in the future.

If you dont like it, you could always go back to this death trap?

... I learnt on one of those bars and when the 2003 bars came out, whoa, what a game changer,,, for me it changed everything. Not only did it have a chicken loop for depowering the kite, it had a safety right there on the chicken loop instead of the damn wrist leash that used to oversteer the kite when putting the board on ya feet,,,,,, man what's next,,,, a kite that can be relaunched without swimming like an Olympic swimmer at it to roll the thing over,,, oh how techie it was back then!

Robbie

Select to expand quote

KiteDesigner said..

dracop said..
A bar with lines that wont break on me every other session, easy to use and functional trim, a swivel that actually works, a sliding stopper that actually works, a CL that is decent, a Double Safety ring, and finally, Oh Sheet handles on the steering as well as the fifth line (cause I dont like touching lines in 50 kts just to relaunch a kite!). Is that too much to ask?

450KG center lines and 400kg side lines check
Clam cleat racing is a great trim, with easy to reach velcro strap for no flappy. check
Sliding stopper check ( with adjustable friction levels) ( works on PU and non PU lines, bar comes with PU and non PU lines. check
Double Safety ring. check
Oh Sheet handles on the steerin. I have seen nubes pull these and go into death loops? most bars have removed this due to saftey. do you need this?
Add 20m + 5m lines highest quality. check
Add short throw and long throw in 1 bar. check
Soft bar ends for face and board protection. check
Easy Adjustable short or far V setup on the 1 bar to work on any kite. check
Reversible pig tails to work on any kite setup. check
Easily replaceable parts available from most marine shops. check
Single center line flagging system. check
Optional 5th line atachment. check
below bar swivel with push away. check
Above bar swivel. uncheck, i have not found any that work, and they can tangle up the lines, can be a saftey issue
Under $400. check.

The above bar should arrive in AUS Spain and france about 1-2 weeks.

Need to think about o sheet handles, most brands have removed these for a reason, but I can understand about touching lines in 50 knots. What about thicker side lines?
Also above bar swivels don't work well after a short time. and can tangle, prefer not to have them if you have a below bar swivel.

Would that work for you?

Have you got a nice little bag for it to come in....apparently that is part of the game changing.

Whats the chicken loop mechanism on it? You got any pics of this bar. Sounds good.

Yeh man I know what ya mean...I chucked my bar in an old small tent bag the other day...it was a revelatory experience.

Select to expand quote

shi thouse said..

Have you got a nice little bag for it to come in....apparently that is part of the game changing.

Whats the chicken loop mechanism on it? You got any pics of this bar. Sounds good.

Yes comes with a bag, no games will be changed, Chicken loop is similar to ozone style but different, push away release with below bar swivel, Sorry no pics, I will put together a short click balls style video about the bar after they turn up.

Its not a game changer, its no click balls bar, but it will be practical, easy to maintain with replacement parts easily accessible and a lot of features.

The North bar is an amazing bar with a lot of thought gone into the design, massive respect for the designers and testers, this is a premium bar that cashed up people wont have any issues buying. If I had the cash I would get 2 or 3 of them, but this is like a Ferrari. I want it, but I will stick to my more affordable/piratical option.

The bar does not have a name.

I have an idea to make turning the kite much easier in waves especially in conditions which require a lot of direction changes and looping of the kite which I find difficult with one hand at centre of bar and not wanting to use two hands due to the fact it takes your approach and body angle away from how you would surf a wave.ill post up prototype when I get the time to make it.has potential for dedicated wave riding especially in cross on and on shore conditions.cross off not so much but where I live that's a rarity.

I miss 2006 when every new year the kite performed significantly better. An upgrade was an upgrade.

Now we just renew our gear. It no longer significantly better.

This isn't a game changer. Just a refinement.

Spend your money on a new PU custom surfboard. Use last years bar. That'll be a game changer.

what i find is a game changer is laurie changing the default font of the SB forums without telling anyone . Now that is game changing

Select to expand quote

Ricardo1709 said...
I have an idea to make turning the kite much easier in waves especially in conditions which require a lot of direction changes and looping of the kite which I find difficult with one hand at centre of bar and not wanting to use two hands due to the fact it takes your approach and body angle away from how you would surf a wave.ill post up prototype when I get the time to make it.has potential for dedicated wave riding especially in cross on and on shore conditions.cross off not so much but where I live that's a rarity.

If you feel like it message me the details and I will see what I can do and add it to a proto bar

Select to expand quote

KiteDesigner said..

450KG center lines and 400kg side lines check
Clam cleat racing is a great trim, with easy to reach velcro strap for no flappy. check
Sliding stopper check ( with adjustable friction levels) ( works on PU and non PU lines, bar comes with PU and non PU lines. check
Double Safety ring. check
Oh Sheet handles on the steerin. I have seen nubes pull these and go into death loops? most bars have removed this due to saftey. do you need this?
Add 20m + 5m lines highest quality. check
Add short throw and long throw in 1 bar. check
Soft bar ends for face and board protection. check
Easy Adjustable short or far V setup on the 1 bar to work on any kite. check
Reversible pig tails to work on any kite setup. check
Easily replaceable parts available from most marine shops. check
Single center line flagging system. check
Optional 5th line atachment. check
below bar swivel with push away. check
Above bar swivel. uncheck, i have not found any that work, and they can tangle up the lines, can be a saftey issue
Under $400. check.

The above bar should arrive in AUS Spain and france about 1-2 weeks.

Need to think about o sheet handles, most brands have removed these for a reason, but I can understand about touching lines in 50 knots. What about thicker side lines?
Also above bar swivels don't work well after a short time. and can tangle, prefer not to have them if you have a below bar swivel.

Would that work for you?

The 'soon to be deleted' post:

The above sounds great Chris, and as you know, is more than enough for the majority who kite for enjoyment, not 'status' (lol) gross profiteering, or kickbacks.

Best of luck with the bar - and thanks for continually doing what you do to keep prices in this 'sport' real, as opposed to the 'look at me' brandname spendfest it has become. Surely there's enough kiters with triple digit IQ's to make it worth your while.

$1000 for a bar.. I wonder why the zips holding the back of some punters heads together don't seize from the salt spray - when they're out with their 'premium' gear..

Importers, retailers & the many many pimp accounts.. Bring on the red thumbs! Oh wait up..

Do something significantly different and its a bulls**t gimmick !!!

Make small changes and its just the same s**t with different graphics !!!

Im glad im not a kite company