For the last few months I've been learning how to foil (in a bay, so moderately flat water). I started with straps, and I've now moved on to no straps.

I would like to start foiling in waves, but I'm concerned that it might be an exercise in frustration to do it strapless. While foiling in large chop/swell is easy enough, even small swell pushes me around and makes it very hard for me to do a strapless waterstart (something that I could easily do with straps).

I'm basically wondering if the difficultly of strapless waterstarts in waves would make it a stupid idea to foil strapless in waves? Alternatively, having straps means that I can't switch feet (dont have the skill level for that) and can only ride with my right foot back, so half of the rides will have to be done toeside.

Pretty sure SirV kites strapless foils in waves. It's pretty big over in Cali actually, more people there on foils compared to surfboards (lots strapless too).

That's my plan is to foil some waves. But at 1 day in i'm still well and truly a virgin. So have no experience to share other the walking into headhigh surf with a float axe in under your arm is a daunting thing......

Side note. the internet foil experts recommend a front foot hook. (not strap).

The guy from Horue (Philipe something or other ) surfs strapless. He did a tutorial here:

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Plummet said...
That's my plan is to foil some waves. But at 1 day in i'm still well and truly a virgin. So have no experience to share other the walking into headhigh surf with a float axe in under your arm is a daunting thing......

Side note. the internet foil experts recommend a front foot hook. (not strap).

Is the wooden frame structure just to hold your foil board? It looks a bit overengineered, but I admire your dedication.

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weebitbreezy said...

I dunno about that vid... Just looks like someone pivoting a chopping board around a wave. Yet to see anyone make wave foiling look amazing. Use them for their intended design - stick to the flat water when it's sub 8 knots pls.

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jackforbes said...

Plummet said...
That's my plan is to foil some waves. But at 1 day in i'm still well and truly a virgin. So have no experience to share other the walking into headhigh surf with a float axe in under your arm is a daunting thing......

Side note. the internet foil experts recommend a front foot hook. (not strap).

Is the wooden frame structure just to hold your foil board? It looks a bit overengineered, but I admire your dedication.

A sheep restraining apparatus

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jackforbes said...

Plummet said...
That's my plan is to foil some waves. But at 1 day in i'm still well and truly a virgin. So have no experience to share other the walking into headhigh surf with a float axe in under your arm is a daunting thing......

Side note. the internet foil experts recommend a front foot hook. (not strap).

Is the wooden frame structure just to hold your foil board? It looks a bit overengineered, but I admire your dedication.

Nice grass Mr Plummet.

Nice foil too. Did you make that one? It looks like it would work although I know nothing about foils.

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Plummet said..
That's my plan is to foil some waves. But at 1 day in i'm still well and truly a virgin. So have no experience to share other the walking into headhigh surf with a float axe in under your arm is a daunting thing......

Side note. the internet foil experts recommend a front foot hook. (not strap).

Even foiling in the bay learning I'd go with the Hook strap, I stacked hard a few times and my foot got bent from staying in the strap when I stacked.

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surfingboye said..

weebitbreezy said...

I dunno about that vid... Just looks like someone pivoting a chopping board around a wave. Yet to see anyone make wave foiling look amazing. Use them for their intended design - stick to the flat water when it's sub 8 knots pls.

This is the most decent wave I have seen a foiler on. This the guy from j-shapes at raglan. In time I recon therel be some sweet foiling of waves. But it wont look as visually appealing as slashing a lip throwing spray everywhere like on a surfboard.

BUT. What if the sensation is way better? What about the feel of the wave power under the water? What about riding a chop screwing crap wave that feels butter smooth that because you are foiling above the chop but feeling the wave through the foil? What about riding monster swell that isn't breaking but feels like a form waveriding when foiling?

I recon its the next way to enjoy waves. You may juts have to open your mind to a different sensation.

Give me a year and I will tell you what the above sensations are like.

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Jono77 said..

jackforbes said...

Plummet said...
That's my plan is to foil some waves. But at 1 day in i'm still well and truly a virgin. So have no experience to share other the walking into headhigh surf with a float axe in under your arm is a daunting thing......

Side note. the internet foil experts recommend a front foot hook. (not strap).

Is the wooden frame structure just to hold your foil board? It looks a bit overengineered, but I admire your dedication.

Nice grass Mr Plummet.

Nice foil too. Did you make that one? It looks like it would work although I know nothing about foils.

Yep, I made it. Look in the diy foil thread.

ps the wooden structure is monkey bars climbing frame for the kids.

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surfingboye said..
Pretty sure SirV kites strapless foils in waves. It's pretty big over in Cali actually, more people there on foils compared to surfboards (lots strapless too).

Southern Cal foiling is ideal as the wind is pretty weak and they get plenty of rideable swell. My friend from San Clemente kites way more now that he foils. I think he said he more than doubled his kiting days each year because of the magic of foiling.

Agree somewhat with weebitbrieezy... most of the videos showing foiling in surf are pretty marginal. Most of the time they are way in front of wave in the flats, far down the line ahead of the curl, or maybe zip in for a quick turn, but not really riding the wave. However, there's a few out there where foilers are on the wave face and doing some decent carves.

The trend to mid-aspect freeride/surf focused wings has only just started in the last year or two. Now that people are realizing its not all about how fast you can go, but that riding waves requires slowing down and good turning ability, I think we'll see more interesting wave riding videos coming up.

For me, I am a surfer first, I'll be on a surfboard if it's good. Foil is for playing around in between surf sessions. However, what has turned out to be super fun is foiling when there's decent size rolling wind swells. You can really feel the acceleration when you catch the wave and drop in. On a good downwind reach, you can ride the same set for a long time ... and it is the closest thing I've felt to the weightless powder snowboarding, silently, smoothly carving, with the kite just sitting there drifting.

So...it isn't the big slashes and spray, but it's a pretty cool feeling. I figure that's what dolphins are after when surfing ... they don't ride in the curl, but in the face on the steepening wave. The foil is similarly riding the energy in the water.

Anyways, final point ... I think this is one of those things that looks a little goofy but feels awesome.

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surfingboye said..

.... Use them for their intended design - stick to the flat water when it's sub 8 knots pls.

Yeah remember folks: foils are boring. No fun please.

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Now that people are realizing its not all about how fast you can go, but that riding waves requires slowing down and good turning ability, I think we'll see more interesting wave riding videos coming

Links to said videos? Havn't seen dudes slashing wave faces on foils yet,only way out in front


Strapless has got to be the way,yea?

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kiteboy dave said...

surfingboye said..

.... Use them for their intended design - stick to the flat water when it's sub 8 knots pls.

Yeah remember folks: foils are boring. No fun please.

Ahahaa, well it does look like sub 8 knots flat water. Just glad his not getting in the way of the real wave riders.... I reckon everyone should get foils and head to the bays. That sounds great.

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gcdave said...

Now that people are realizing its not all about how fast you can go, but that riding waves requires slowing down and good turning ability, I think we'll see more interesting wave riding videos coming

Links to said videos? Havn't seen dudes slashing wave faces on foils yet,only way out in front


Strapless has got to be the way,yea?

I've seen 3 or 4 videos where a foiler approached something resembling decent surfing. By that I mean beyond "look at me on a wave!", but actually impressive to a surfer. I am looking for these to show my non believer surfer friends, and not much luck so far.

Now.....that doesn't mean there aren't foilers kicking butt out there. The mechanics of just getting into a wave, riding it a little, and getting out, without falling, is incredibly skilled in itself. Again, it may not look like much....but feels great. So doesnt translate well to video maybe.

Strapless? I'm not a believer. 2 main benefits of strapless i see 1) changing foot position 2) not breaking leg. Neither of these affect capabilty for carving waves. A surfer can kite heelside/ toeside with same foot forward and need not change feet. Though being separate from board in a big wave wipeout would be preferable....going over the falls with an axe seems bad.

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juandesooka said..

gcdave said...

Now that people are realizing its not all about how fast you can go, but that riding waves requires slowing down and good turning ability, I think we'll see more interesting wave riding videos coming

Links to said videos? Havn't seen dudes slashing wave faces on foils yet,only way out in front


Strapless has got to be the way,yea?

I've seen 3 or 4 videos where a foiler approached something resembling decent surfing. By that I mean beyond "look at me on a wave!", but actually impressive to a surfer. I am looking for these to show my non believer surfer friends, and not much luck so far.

Now.....that doesn't mean there aren't foilers kicking butt out there. The mechanics of just getting into a wave, riding it a little, and getting out, without falling, is incredibly skilled in itself. Again, it may not look like much....but feels great. So doesnt translate well to video maybe.

Strapless? I'm not a believer. 2 main benefits of strapless i see 1) changing foot position 2) not breaking leg. Neither of these affect capabilty for carving waves. A surfer can kite heelside/ toeside with same foot forward and need not change feet. Though being separate from board in a big wave wipeout would be preferable....going over the falls with an axe seems bad.

Yeah I think we are only at the start of hf wave riding. The next few years will reveal what is possible.

But its definately a completely different level of danger considering taking a floating axe into any kind of decent surf. My session the other day was as little as it gets around here. Even still there was a shoulder high wave come through every now and then. I went down in front of one and my bloody axe was chasing me down flipping round and round in the white wash. I got out of the wave in time. You definetely don't want to be anywhere near the axe in the impact zone.

That said, i'll figure out how to do it and I will get into the bigger waves when I have built some skill up.

I think the fun of a foil in waves would be in big open ocean swells. Once those suckers are breaking I want no part of that mast and blade near me during a tumble down beat up.....

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surfingboye said..
Pretty sure SirV kites strapless foils in waves. It's pretty big over in Cali actually, more people there on foils compared to surfboards (lots strapless too).

SirV rides with both straps - well did when I saw him and in every vid he posted. I asked him about it once and he said he likes the straps.

^^ every old salt likes the strap on

Bit worried i'll end up foiling waves one day and doing it wrong. Where are the pitted strapless foil vids?

I've foiled a bit in the waves, it is a whole new set of skills. Acceleration is pretty insane so the stability of the foil is paramount and a mid aspect set up would be best. Someone mentioned being in front of the wave ?? Well that is where the power is, not up high.

You don't really ride up and down the face...

There's like, a barrel of turbulence under the peak of the wave, that your can catch lift from, front or back of the wave. You can glide from front to back to front of two parallel waves, using the mast rising and falling to "pump" and basically surf with a mostly slack kite.

Not exactly "pitted", but this video shows some fun to be had carving around in and amongst surf.

loved that vid......cheers

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juandesooka said..
Not exactly "pitted", but this video shows some fun to be had carving around in and amongst surf.

That is pretty much the same setup as mine, though my Paipo that I shaped is a tad bigger. Same foil and mast. Now if I could master the gybes like Greg does!

Nanas update

1 wave foiling
2 pole dancing
3 lawn mowing

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SaveTheWhales said..
Nanas update

1 wave foiling
2 pole dancing
3 lawn mowing

I'm assuming you haven't tried the foiling yet?

I'm just starting and its freaken madness compared to normal kitesurfing. The danger level is way up there. It may look gracefull and easy and non dangerous and boring. but that is far from the truth.

Here's another one. Small waves but cool style and skill.

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Plummet said...

SaveTheWhales said..
Nanas update

1 wave foiling
2 pole dancing
3 lawn mowing

I'm assuming you haven't tried the foiling yet?

I'm just starting and its freaken madness compared to normal kitesurfing. The danger level is way up there. It may look gracefull and easy and non dangerous and boring. but that is far from the truth.

Here's another one. Small waves but cool style and skill.

If that's who I think it is, they were building foils years ago and is either really bitter or pulling your leg

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Plummet said...

SaveTheWhales said..
Nanas update

1 wave foiling
2 pole dancing
3 lawn mowing

I'm assuming you haven't tried the foiling yet?

I'm just starting and its freaken madness compared to normal kitesurfing. The danger level is way up there. It may look gracefull and easy and non dangerous and boring. but that is far from the truth.

Here's another one. Small waves but cool style and skill.

I got that vid and Nico really does make it look easy. Shows a range of areas on a wave a foil can make use of.