Second hand 19m Flysurfer Speed 2 flies to the right. Or maintaining the kite at dead 12 O'clock means the bar is not horizontal but about 35mm out of level. My best guess is one of the back lines has stretched. Anyone have any other input? There does not seem to be any major damage to the kite itself, some minor pin holes here and there plus small tear on one bridle line to one cell.

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dorothyinste said..
Second hand 19m Flysurfer Speed 2 flies to the right. Or maintaining the kite at dead 12 O'clock means the bar is not horizontal but about 35mm out of level. My best guess is one of the back lines has stretched. Anyone have any other input? There does not seem to be any major damage to the kite itself, some minor pin holes here and there plus small tear on one bridle line to one cell.

contact Flysurfer, they are nice guys, and will help you . cheers :)

Lines shrink not stretch. Particles get inside the weave of the line and make it wider therefor shorter. A proper rinse out and massage may help.

Thing with 2nd hand kites is you never know what happened to them. Lets just assume it hasnt been dropped in a wave and there for literally unrepairable as the suction and strength of the undertow would severely bust out some of the stitching on a foil kite the forces are tonnes and tonnes and tonnes and its not uncommon for foil kites /parachutes/gliders to have landed just on edge of a little bit of a breaking wave and the persons been sucked in and wrapped up in lines and drowned. Imagine the pull of a kite in strong wind x 100.

So lets say she never met water. Then you just need to measure every line from one side and make sure there the same as the other, this is before you connect the bar and lines talking just bridals here.

Youll then want to check just the bar and lines.

Get them all to be the same.

If she still pulls one side then shes been dunked in a wave and is basicly unfixable without removing panels and reattaching and on a twin skin thats just not worth it. Look for exposed stitching on one panel then see if its the same on otherside of the kite.

If you do see that then your best bet is to dodgey up a poor attempt of a repair by shorting one center and steering line then sell it to some other poor basterd

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fruuugz said..
Lines shrink not stretch. Particles get inside the weave of the line and make it wider therefor shorter. A proper rinse out and massage may help.

Thing with 2nd hand kites is you never know what happened to them. Lets just assume it hasnt been dropped in a wave and there for literally unrepairable as the suction and strength of the undertow would severely bust out some of the stitching on a foil kite the forces are tonnes and tonnes and tonnes and its not uncommon for foil kites /parachutes/gliders to have landed just on edge of a little bit of a breaking wave and the persons been sucked in and wrapped up in lines and drowned. Imagine the pull of a kite in strong wind x 100.

So lets say she never met water. Then you just need to measure every line from one side and make sure there the same as the other, this is before you connect the bar and lines talking just bridals here.

Youll then want to check just the bar and lines.

Get them all to be the same.

If she still pulls one side then shes been dunked in a wave and is basicly unfixable without removing panels and reattaching and on a twin skin thats just not worth it. Look for exposed stitching on one panel then see if its the same on otherside of the kite.

If you do see that then your best bet is to dodgey up a poor attempt of a repair by shorting one center and steering line then sell it to some other poor basterd

Lines can shrink, but they also and more commonly in kitesurfing, stretch.

The forces on a foil dropped in a wave are not quite as massive as you state, there is only a human on one end, and sometimes it will only be the fabric itself that presenting any resistance to the movement of the water.
It is actually really uncommon for people to drown when they crash a foil into the water.

To the OP, first thing to check is the flying lines, carefully remove them from the kite. Connect upper and lower bridles to each other so they cannot tangle and try not to move the kite while checking the lines. Its a massive kite so do some prior planning about where you are going to do this checking.

Connect all the lines to a common point then go to the bar and pull them tight. Are the steering lines out of whack? If they are try stretching the shorter one on its own, then re-check, hopefully thats all it was.

The next step is to compare bridle lines, from one side of the kite to the other. You can also get bridle dimensions from Flysurfer, hopefully this is not your issue.

Check your flying lines first.

One side is longer than the other.
Have had similar problem, with the FS boost/boost2, when the lines on the front bridle separated.
The bridle must have symmetry,
Measure each front line, make the adjustment. they have to be exactly the same length.
Don't know about foils, but you should also check your bar is tuned, equally.
All lines must be equal to maintain balance.

Also make the mixer test (I would do that before trying to adjust the lines)
It's described in the handbook: flysurfer.com/downloads/download-info/speed2-manual-eng/

Do as others have said. Mixer test. Look for snagged damaged bridles. Check lines. Try to find bridle line lengths.

Do do all those things. But I'll be honest a speed 2 is so old the canopy is probably pouris and stretched to **** and back. Plus it's super old technology now

Even if you manage to tune it back to factory settings it will be like putting lipstick on a pig. No matter how much lipstick you put on it, it's still a pig.

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Ozone Kites Aus said..


Lines can shrink, but they also and more commonly in kitesurfing, stretch.

Nonsense. That's been disproved so often I'm surprised anyone still brings it up.

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dorothyinste said..
Second hand 19m Flysurfer Speed 2 flies to the right. Or maintaining the kite at dead 12 O'clock means the bar is not horizontal but about 35mm out of level. My best guess is one of the back lines has stretched. Anyone have any other input? There does not seem to be any major damage to the kite itself, some minor pin holes here and there plus small tear on one bridle line to one cell.

Tune your lines.
Check your mixer.
Measure the ring lines because they shrink like a mother.

Hi. I am a wa flysurfer dealer , you also have intheloop and BrisKites over east.

Others are spot in what they've said. You can trim out the tendency to turn one way or another thru the mixer (you need to increase / decrease drag on one side so it flies straight.). You won't be setting the mixer equal both sides if that makes sense.

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dorothyinste said..
Second hand 19m Flysurfer Speed 2 flies to the right. Or maintaining the kite at dead 12 O'clock means the bar is not horizontal but about 35mm out of level. My best guess is one of the back lines has stretched. Anyone have any other input? There does not seem to be any major damage to the kite itself, some minor pin holes here and there plus small tear on one bridle line to one cell.

Ahh so you're the sucker that bought the Silver Arrow on gumtree! hehe.. only kidding. I am jealous. Yeah check with flysurfer or get a local to check your mixer settings. Shouldn't be much to fix. Make sure your lines from the bar are even though.

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Kamikuza said..

Ozone Kites Aus said..


Lines can shrink, but they also and more commonly in kitesurfing, stretch.

Nonsense. That's been disproved so often I'm surprised anyone still brings it up.

Firstly, you are a troll, this has been proven repeatedly across multiple forums.

Secondly, if you are so inexperienced to state (and believe you own BS) that dyneema/spectra lines do not "creep" or stretch, then thats fine. but please don't come on here and try to make sweeping statements that deny reality. Those of us who do kite frequently and who do lots of repairs and tuning to a wide variety of kite bars and lines, know that lines more often stretch, than shrink, but they most certainly can do both.

And to the OP, yes, after checking lines for evenness, perform the mixer test next, and see if you can tune the asymetric flying out of the kite, bit of a chore, but should be worth it in the end. The 19M Speed 2 is a truck to turn (as Plummet says - its old in foil kite progression) but it does develop good apparent wind for a kite this size and age, on a large board, for light wind cruising.

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... its not uncommon for foil kites /parachutes/gliders to have landed just on edge of a little bit of a breaking wave and the persons been sucked in and wrapped up in lines and drowned. Imagine the pull of a kite in strong wind x 100.

Wow. I've dropped my foils kites in surf a bunch of times and I've never drowned. :)

In my experience because they are full of air they tend to stay in the surface and let the whitewater pass underneath.

(I'm talking 1-2m surf not under the lip at cloud break)

I think foils handle surf much better than most people expect.

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jamesperth said..

... its not uncommon for foil kites /parachutes/gliders to have landed just on edge of a little bit of a breaking wave and the persons been sucked in and wrapped up in lines and drowned. Imagine the pull of a kite in strong wind x 100.

Wow. I've dropped my foils kites in surf a bunch of times and I've never drowned. :)

In my experience because they are full of air they tend to stay in the surface and let the whitewater pass underneath.

(I'm talking 1-2m surf not under the lip at cloud break)

I think foils handle surf much better than most people expect.

grab 21m of cloth any cloth you want walk into the ocean and then walk out of it for me

www.paraglidingforum.com/download.php?id=44491

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fruuugz said..

grab 21m of cloth any cloth you want walk into the ocean and then walk out of it for me

www.paraglidingforum.com/download.php?id=44491

That would be the difference between open and closed celled foil....

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Kamikuza said..

fruuugz said..

grab 21m of cloth any cloth you want walk into the ocean and then walk out of it for me

www.paraglidingforum.com/download.php?id=44491

That would be the difference between open and closed celled foil....

whole point of mine is that any movement of water be it a river or ocean and you are connected to a large piece of cloth you are simply not strong enough to get out of it.

theres a drag algorithm somewhere i remember reading awhile ago that you could calculate the power needed to pull the wing out of the water dependent on the waters speed and surface area of canopy and it was superhuman like tonnes.

ive never dropped a foil in the waves but i've sure as hell have done alot of deep water packdowns and had to drag deflated kites out of them. it is not easy. im talking hundreds of deepwater packdowns on dozens of different beaches lakes rivers mostly inflatable kites but also taught on foils a bit. (all while trying to make the experience enjoyable to the student of course )

i like foil kites and i love my wings but you need to understand the difference between a huge sucking anchor that can entangle you and drown you and just another easy relaunch is just a pressurized pocket of air once that goes there's some pretty heavy forces that come into play.

just google fatal water landing skydive / parachute / paraglider / canopy / etc etc

I'd be surprised.

None of those things you listed are closed-cell foils.

If it's water inside the canopy that's the problem like in the video (!), then it's apples and oranges--it's not drag. I suspect you're misremembering cos I've pulled a 21m kite off the water into a boat, against the current. It was easy. Probably cos there was no water in it.

And--they practice reserve shoot deployments into water...

Yes kami when your kite is full of air it is fine.

When it has been hit by a wave you are ****ed.

A wave, not a bit of s white water runner.

Why does op's kite pull to the right? Because someone dragged it out of the water. As shown the force required to pull one out is immense more then enough to pull panels apart. What happens whe a panel on the right has a few mms more give then its one on the left? It steers to the right. Are we going around in circles enough yet? I think its another right

I think the OP got his answers. The rest now is dribble

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fruuugz said..
Yes kami when your kite is full of air it is fine.

When it has been hit by a wave you are ****ed.

A wave, not a bit of s white water runner.

Why does op's kite pull to the right? Because someone dragged it out of the water. As shown the force required to pull one out is immense more then enough to pull panels apart. What happens whe a panel on the right has a few mms more give then its one on the left? It steers to the right. Are we going around in circles enough yet? I think its another right

That you, PMU? Making your usual leaps in logic again I see "As shown"? Where?

So what you're saying is, in special cases **** goes sideways. Ergo, avoid those situations ;)

I wouldn't want to drop a tube kite in what I'm sure you consider are real waves...not having a LE tube to get water tucked behind does make like easier though.

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NorthernKitesAUS said..
I think the OP got his answers. The rest now is dribble

Good post, you really hammered the nail of pointlessness right on the head.

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Kamikuza said..

fruuugz said..
Yes kami when your kite is full of air it is fine.

When it has been hit by a wave you are ****ed.

A wave, not a bit of s white water runner.

Why does op's kite pull to the right? Because someone dragged it out of the water. As shown the force required to pull one out is immense more then enough to pull panels apart. What happens whe a panel on the right has a few mms more give then its one on the left? It steers to the right. Are we going around in circles enough yet? I think its another right

That you, PMU? Making your usual leaps in logic again I see "As shown"? Where?

So what you're saying is, in special cases **** goes sideways. Ergo, avoid those situations ;)

I wouldn't want to drop a tube kite in what I'm sure you consider are real waves...not having a LE tube to get water tucked behind does make like easier though.

kami / lofty we all love kiting a bit to much why else would we sit here dribbleing utter **** about it in our free time so i am continueing this just for you to because i know how much you love it.


kamikuza, dragging a deflated tube kite out of the water also requires a hell of alot of strength agreed
you need to understand im not attacking FOILS look at my photo, i like canopys. i think ... i have... 250 square meters of canopys just for my own personal use not including school stuff right now sitting in this room. none of it is older then 2013 twin skins counted as a single not cheating by saying a 20m twin is 40 but if i rolled this **** out id need 250 square meters to do so. alot of that is foils some open some closed. some even round.

so just watch again this video for me because it is important to understand the force the ocean has on a canopy of any sort type style form shape colour any cloth.



bit weird. isnt it?

hear the funny accents? that wing is worth $4kaud
but he probably paid real money for it.
foreign money.
the sort of money where leaning on a shovel 5 days a week gives you a couple hundred not a couple thousand like it does here in australia.
hell i reckon he had to let someone **** his wife for that glider. but he is too tied up to free himself to save it.
his several friends aren't tho.
why are they pretending to pull the cloth out with all there strength? some sort of mexican mime game?
don't they know its worth?
sure there silly flying friends life is worth like pfffft nothing, but if they were to take that rag from the waves grip theyd have enough money to **** there friends wife probably 400 times? if i was his friend i would be pulling that rag out like mad. but they persist with this farcical charade. maybe lofty can tell us what there saying :P
the matter of if there's air in the canopy or not is only limited by TIME. the end result is the same. who puts a foil kite in the waves i do not know. its nearly impossible. they move like molasses and that's how i like them. it would be like having a collision with a wall a kilometer away and your travelling at .5 kph but that does not change the fact that it is damned near impossible to pull that much stuff from a current/undertow/wave/movingwater/mexicanmime i have seen 4wd winches struggle.

but here is the trick. if you do find yourself retrieveing a doonah you simply grab it from the corner of the fabric itself preferably trailing edge and slowly but surely try drag it out. itll be stuffed like OP's kite and steer to the right

Hmm ok lets' continue shall we?

What was that underwater kite thread a while back? Such a small 'kite' in the water yet it was able to pull the rider in less than 5 knots of overhead wind. I'll Google it... ocean sails or something, using the power of the wave currents is VERY powerful.

Cool. I like threads that weave about off-topic :D If you don't, you don't have to read it and you can get back to OCDing about something else. . . .

That's an open-cell doohickey and it's completely full of water. How many liters in there? 200 or more? Good luck moving that at all, even on dry ground. I remember the one time I had a water bed: trying to move it the 10 feet from bedroom to shower to empty it was an exercise in futility. And stupidity. When I sold it, I left the moving to the new owner :D

My point is that it's a lot of water in an annoying to handle package. Add in the motion of the ocean and you've a problem. If that wing was closed-cell, he'd be bundling it up in his arms then fishing out the wing tips with a couple of liters in. If there's air inside and it can't get out, water isn't getting in.

I have had to swim in with the 21m foil three times so far. Towed it completely unrolled cross-current once, half-rolled it up and plopped it on the board once, and the final time I made the effort to wrap it up completely and get it on the board. Swim times were much the same . . . I seem to have a habit of dropping it in the same spot, as far from the beach as possible

The amount of water ingested by the kite was directly proportional to how much I didn't roll it up. Even completely unrolled, it only half filled and wasn't much trouble getting it out of the water by myself. . . .