(foreword: no I am not kiter bashing.)


I've noticed this year (so far this season anyway) there has been a few kiters down near the groyne at Dutchies.

The last couple of seasons there has been this voluntary segregation whereby kiters stay about 200m plus north of the groyne and never venture down south near the groyne / area in front of the playground.
Obviously the odd downwinder comes thru but that is no biggie.

In my last 3 sessions I have seen guys actually launching at the bottom of the stairs from the playground (as in, 30m from the groyne) and staying there all afternoon.

The area the kiters were in (and where most still stay) at the north end was suitable as the reef is a bit shallow for polies in some bits so life was just grand.

So-

was there ever a formal agreement about segregation?
will the kiters have a word to the ones who persist in kiting in the middle of the polies, when 20 other kiters are obviously in a different area?
Do we need a proper agreement like Safety Bay?

Ideas?

What does it matter who rides where? As long as they abide by the right of way rules etc.
Often the north end of the beach is too shallow to ride a surfboard ( I know as ive lost about 5 fins there) .
Also their are signs preventing kite surfing from taking place any further North than the half way point so it is allready restricted to a small section of beach.

Just to add to my previous post:

I do not like the idea of segreagting where you can ride on the water, WA has too many rules already.
However it would not be a bad idea to have seperate rig up areas on the beach , the proximity to the play park should tell most sensible kiters to stay clear, hyper kids and kite launching are a bad combo.

In 2004-2005 the locals at this beach were upset by dangerous and rude kiters and spoke to council about banning kiting in all of Cottesloe. A few local kiters and members of WAKSA fought long and hard to convince council this was not a fair option. In the end all parties agreed to move kiters 100m South and not to kite at old phone box site. There are 2x large signs at beach that say no kiting. These kiters who are now using site will get kiting banned in Cottesloe, as soon as a long term local, elderly swimmer or family with children gets harrassed by dangerous and rude kiters. History repeats itself.

I think it's becoming a numbers game.

There are clearly more kiters than ever using the area and there is a natural tendancy to want to spread out a bit. Couple of seasons ago there would have probably only been 5 or 6 regulars now it's common to see 15+ kiters using what is essetnially a very small confined area of no more than a few hundred metres of beach.

On the flip side last season there were more polies than ever drifting done into the kiting zone.

To answer your question: no there has never been a formal agreement only informal as the number of kiters was managable.

Personally I kite near the groyne when the number of polies is low (3 or 4) otherwise I stay clear.

I was under the impression you also had to be a WAKSA member to kite there - did you check to see if they had WAKSA tags??

Airhead - good point there are more which will make it harder. Maybe we need two areas - 200m south of the groyne where nobody windsurfs, and the existing one some 200m north of the groyne?
You'd be one of the ones I've noticed who do only go near the groyne when there are a few polies out and thta is appreciated.
On good days with the euro's (polies and kiters) out hacking around with no giving way it is a nightmare though and I'm sure know that

Bingles I was not aware of that - I'd say many ones who I'm referring to are not members as they seem to be the intermediates (first time or little ocean experience so they don't know)

In 2004-2005. This site had 25 to 30 kiters using it every day as it was the most popular ocean site in Perth - how times change. So the kiters using spot at moment are low, I live in arae and drive past every day and numbers are very low. Its up to the users to take responsibility for there actions! Council says stay away, obvious signage, when we loss site as a local kiter for 10 years we only have our selves to blame. In 2004 - 2005 there were a few kiters who always argued for, open beaches, we have rights, don't stop us kiting here, and when the **** hit the fan , they didn't turn up at council over a period of 6 months to keep site open. Cottesloe has a VERY strong an opinionated local beach users group who have been residents long before most of us were born, they are close to council. Just respect them and kite in the correct area, its real simple.

I'm only giving this info as history. If you guys lose Cott, you gotta look in the mirror. Just go 50m South and enjoy your kiting - really its pretty simple. I have kited in area since 2000 and never have a problem at any tide or wind kiting 50m to 100m south from this beach.

I mostly kite at Brighton these days and the area is really well run as a kiting site, at times up to 30/40 kiters in general area. we havea good relationship with most windsurfers and clubies. All of the kiters stay well clear of flagged areas as a safety action and respect to other beach users and clubies. We self regulate ourselves and new kiters to area. This works pretty well 99% of the time. I'm only commenting as this conversation may be new to a few users but an old conversation to long time users.

i reckon the ocean should be free for all

However last season - windsurfing at brighton i was hit by lines on 3 occasions , hit a twin tip drifting in the surf (damaging my fin) and had countless waves ruined by kites down in the break and drifting through.

I am just one of about 30 regular windsurfers there and they all have similar stories to tell - some better - some worse.

The windsurfers at Brighton get squeezed between the kiters - who have inevitably crept south - and the clubbies immediately to the North -so we effectively have a 150m stretch of beach to use.

to be fair:

other windsurfers also get in the way - and i have been in the way of other windsurfers and kiters too at times

I actually like riding with the competent riders there - like Niall, Mike B and Ryland - and get some stoke out of watching them throw spray- but there is definitely some collateral damage that comes with numbers in the water.

Probably the worst is the beginner doing 30m poostance runs back and forth right in the windsurfer zone.

Johnno when you say u go south 100m do you mean about 100m south of the Dutchies groyne?
That would be my suggestion as a solution if the area north of the groyne is too congested- have 2 areas with polies in the middle.
Polies 100m north and south of groyne, and kiters about 200m north and south of groyne.

May cause crossover problems if people want to travel betwene the two areas but some edumacationifying will fix that.

I think WAKSA need to get onto it and spread the word to stay away from the groyne a good 100m all round.... problem solved. Trouble is there seems to be a few who don't ask (or are too dumb to see it is quite clear there are two areas - one with all the polies and one with all the baggers) and they just kite in the middle of the polies

Sorry Mark,
On those rare occasions there is a wave at Dutchies, I reserve the right to kite there.

We all just need to get along. Circle work and respect is the best solution. Same goes for Brighton...

Look at the signs when kiting and all is fine with the boyz and girls who make the rules. I can't comment on windsurfing as I've never done it. As a surfer we are top of the pecking order in the water - . Hey but we can't surf at Cott main from Spring to Autum as we were banned their years ago after hitting a few swimmers etc etc and the clubbies got upset.

Im guessing the sign states no launching from the old phone box beach but does it also state no kiting on the water near the beach? If its the latter, its not working, I see 4-5 guys turning and boosting near the beach every time its windy.

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ADS said...

Sorry Mark,
On those rare occasions there is a wave at Dutchies, I reserve the right to kite there.

We all just need to get along. Circle work and respect is the best solution. Same goes for Brighton...

Sorry ADS,
It would be nice if on those rare occasions the wind drops and I have to run downwind to stay afloat and thus drift into the kite zone that I was not abused.
It would also be nice if the circle work idea actually was used - much polie frustration comes from kiters doing 100m long runs in the break and / or turning onto a wave that the polie has been sitting on for 20sec.

I have no issue with 10 polies in their area and a couple of experienced kiters share it.
My issue is with 10 polies in our area, 10 kiters in theirs, and then two intermediates start kiting right in amongst the windsurfers for no apparent reason and cause some angst. Preventing blues on the beach by talking about it here may be one solution

Fair crack of the sauce bottle..

Remember the poleys have been frequenting this spot for decades prior to kites and they don't (usually) go messing things up for kiters.. usually the other way round. poleys need about 10m radius for safety. Kiters need 25m radius. So who is hogging the space and imposing then?

This seems to be shaping up as another excercise in kiters wanting ALL areas to be full of kites.

At Scarbs the poleys stick to their area which is miniscule in relation to the areas north and south that are chockers with kites. It works pretty well, and if some good-ish waves are missed out on by the kiters.. well suck it up cause if you've done a downwinder you have had oodles of choice kilometre after kilometre.

Can't the poleys have a relatively small area to play in free of insatiable kiters?

Yeh, na...If all parties show respect and obey the rules, I see no problems. Granted, when you get Noobs or intermediate kiters in the break not following the rules and showing respect, Polies can get p1ssed off.
Having said that though, I have had many experiences with polies not following the rules in the surf as well. I've been dropped in on, cut off and not given right of way. No big deal though...

I think some, and possibly most, of the problem stems from the clueless* punter who happens to be driving past and sees a bunch of wind sports enthusiasts going hard at it.

* By clueless I mean a non-seabreeze reading, non-WAKSA membership holding and possibly/probably non-resident regular Joe or Jill.

Our punter then spots a nice big grass area complete with showers and proceeds to rig up and launch.

And as for signage. Well our punter has already observed all of the frothing guys and gals on the water so what else could possibly be a problem. But lets give them the benefit of the doubt and they give the sign the once over. What does it actually tell them? Nothing! I took the time on Sunday to have a look myself and the wording (at least on the sign at the beach access near Princes St) is so faded that it is illegible. I'm pretty sure this is also true of the sign at the old "phone box" site too.

Now all of the clued up regulars are already on the water so there is nobody around to set them straight. Our punter heads out only to cop the evil eye and possibly some verbal from the locals. He/she may or may not ever return again but one thing is for sure there will be another clueless punter that will come along to fill the space.

sheeezze,,next you will be saying "no colours",
the ocean is free for all too enjoy.

If there are a crew of us out kiteing and a couple of learner dancers come out,
we dont say "hey,this is where we all ways kite,,f off".

We dont own the waves just because we kite there all the time.
Everone has the same rights.

I think trying to segragate everyone, more rules, regulations,more signs is making aussie even more of a soft nanny country than it already is.

You dont see different surf breaks with shortboards only or mals only, goat boats only.
The odd learner blowing through,be it dancer or kiter, is just one of thoughs things.
We were all at that stage once.Maybe some of the old dancers cant remember back that far.
If you have a problem with someone in the surf,you sort it out with them..simple.The way its always been in the waves.All this crying to councils to draw lines down the beach saying "whites over here and colours over there" seems pretty gay.
Think some crew need to man up and sort it on the beach like the surf culture,not the new nanny culture.
just my thoughts.

If you kite/poledancer on a crowded city beach you have gotta expect people getting in the way of each other.Its not hard to dive 1/2 hr to get away from it if people cant handle it.No need for lines drawn on the sand.

Hey the signs are still at Cottesloe last night at 5pm - This is at the bottom of the stairs as you walk onto the beach. What the.... na I didn't see these signs, they are so faded...... when I walked past

Hey what another sign at the top of the carpark where every one rigs up ...... Ah the setting sun must be blinding me , the signs so faded 9th Oct 2010.









"sheeezze,,next you will be saying "no colours",
the ocean is free for all too enjoy".


Hey man ....you are right the oceans are free, yeh right in the middle of a city with 1 million people -

what I can't spear fish in a protected zone, what ****ers -
what I can't drive my Uber new Yamaha 14000hp jetski at full speed closer than 200 to beach -
what my dog can't **** on this beach in peace

What hey man the council are total ****ers - hey man I need another bong....

Please note. I am at work, I am bored, and I think I am funny ..... and I agree with the dude who siad" ^^^^^^^^^^^wow,cant beleive you guys are fighting for that spot,waves look awsome"


I reckon Cottesloe may look OK for the next week or so for a kite.

Mate Im havent said anywhere that council are wankers, blar blar blar.
Talk about reading between the lines.

Just cant see why thoughs who are dropping in or what ever, arnt sorted out in the surf same as surfing??????It has worked betwen different types of wave crafts for years without people crying to councils to paint lines on the sand.

Have to disagree with you LoW.

In Metro, local "rules" do work, and people who follow them are less of a menace. It must be a tribal, local kind of thing.......tough to put on billboards, and impossible to police except by the local crew.

Problem was solved by one council here in backward WA by having a sign to warn pedestrians that this was a kite surfing area. System works very well so far. The local rules are well followed and every one is happy...........the local tribe met with council and mutual trust and understanding seems to be working well.

And it is just this time of year again where everyone is just so desperate for a kite that they can't be stuffed "educating" every TD & Harry who shows up at the beach. It is just common courtesy for someone new to a spot to take 5 min. and talk to the locals first, you will be a happy and safer person.

Looks like Johnno and I were replying to you at the same time.

Hey JK, you going to Wedge, or is that to far for you? Hope to see you.

Yeh mate, going up Friday arvo with Oz, maybe Lancelin or Wedge, see ya at Wedge Saturday

Its ok to disagreed with me gruezi, its a forum ,its what its all about.But I think you have pretty much agreed with me.
Tribal law,as you call it,,not segrgation
I just think drawing lines in the sand will tend to be like gang turf.Like markie said, he got blowen into the kite area and got abused,
no need for raciast type segragation,just dealing with the ones who dont follow the "tribal rules".....
Has worked in crowded surf breaks for years.

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Mark _australia said...
(foreword: no I am not kiter bashing.)

lol. ^^^

Mark loves segregation ...
And more stupid signs on the beach.
He's a hater, of course.
He also likes to compartmentize stuff.
Remember that dumb bet he made once with Lotto ?
The one about if Lotto never ever posted in the poley forum again ...
Then he would never ever post in the kiting forum again.
You promised Mark.
Lotto, I believe you have won that wager.

If theres heaps of poleys on it leave it to them, Plenty of nice beach and waves just down the road at leightons with no reef to snap out fins. What is the Big attaction to Dutchies anyway? Ah! I remember, that footpath all the pretty girls walk on.

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Mark _australia said...


(Do we need a proper agreement like Safety Bay?

Bark........Bark...........

Bloke asks a reasonable question for poleys to enjoy one meagre slice of ocean without kiters fkn their sh!t up.

Remember it has been a traditional poley spot for decades.

Response is (mostly) selfish, spoilt, w@nkers bagging the 'other school' ocean user and overlooking that there are sooooo many other spots close by to kite waves NORTH and SOUTH of there, which are kite popular - therefore avoided by poleys generally.

Sheesh some of you fellas, you make a rock solid case for peeps who believe ALL kiters are selfish, arrogant show-offs.

the windsurfers can keep dutchies , i'll stick to leighton .

From the windsurfer's point of view they see something that looks like utter chaos because they head out into the shipping channel before turning around. (If we are going to get onto the legalities of where you can and can't kitee; may I remind people that going more than 400m from shore breaks multiple state laws, this includes windsurfers)

If windsurfers could stick with the kites, they would see that most people have found a method of working around everyone else. IE; each kiter has about 30m worth of beach to themselves or if being friendly are doing a circuit /systematic pattern. The problem that kiters face is when 1. when there are more kites than 30m sections, 2. low tides making many areas shallow reef. 3. noobs and downwinders

Windsurfers usually head up to the normal break, this leaves the beach pretty clear so is it really that surprising that kiters are spread out the whole length?

It is cool if you want the south half of the beach back, I enjoy the break... just thought it was crowded as it was.

I enjoy it when windsurfers abuse me though, it is like when motorbikers try road rage and then remember that if vehicles collide it is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. (I get abuse because I cut off some pole smokers, spray them, call them gay etc but I also jump in the same car as them at the end of the day.)