Just one new post about musty kites.....

This place is dryer than 2 naked grannies running through a flower show winning the prize for the best dried arrangement.......

Is it all wingdinging now?

Or has the fun police choked this forum to a benignness that makes it boring AF?

Or have we gotten old and boring too? lost the will to argue nameless people about pointless stuff on the interweb?

I say bring back some of those augmentative bastards that used to stir it up.

Hey plums, got into the e mountain bike off-road stuff yet?im having an absolute ball with it on the none windy days, just sooo much fun.

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ste said..
Hey plums, got into the e mountain bike off-road stuff yet?im having an absolute ball with it on the none windy days, just sooo much fun.

Note yet, but have been smashing some pretty silly track around nz.

I think this forum is starting to smell a bit musty.

Its forumning in general that is on the decline in all sports and hobby's across the board.

Do people still kite in Australia?? Yes,
Do people still forum in Australia??? No, not so much anymore.

Online forums are seen as a bit old fashion in todays times,
its not that the sports have slowed, look at surfing, increasing non stop but the surfing forum here has very little action now days, sometimes goes many days without a single reply.
Its just the change in times.

The only forum on here that gets daily posts it the poledancers forum, but they are mostly the elderly crew that are retired trying to fill in their time and are scared of change.

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Plummet said..
Just one new post about musty kites.....

This place is dryer than 2 naked grannies running through a flower show winning the prize for the best dried arrangement.......

Is it all wingdinging now?

Or has the fun police choked this forum to a benignness that makes it boring AF?

Or have we gotten old and boring too? lost the will to argue nameless people about pointless stuff on the interweb?

I say bring back some of those augmentative bastards that used to stir it up.

Plenty of kiters here and quite a few kitefoiling. Just a few wingdingers who also kite/foil.
However there are few new kiters, dingers at least around my area, most of the existing ones have originally come from a windsurf or surf background.

I think forums thrive when there's something new and people are excited enough to give it a go and seek out help online when they find it's not as easy as it looks. Forums are great to get support, tips and even instructional videos from those who've mastered whatever discipline you're into. I inhabit a global heavy machinery forum which is extremely active because equipment is always breaking down and owners need help or someone's bought a Bobcat on ebay and don't know how it works

While winging is popular because it's new, it's not necessarily bringing new people into wind and water sports as most of the wingers I see also kite or surf or windfoil. As people are learning winging however it does create a lot of activity in its section on Seabreeze as people are learning, getting tips and comparing new and evolving equipment.

There were a lot more people entering wind sports when there were a lot of active instructors advertising how much fun it is and how safe and easy it was to learn from a competent instructor. But it seems many no longer exist and from what I hear the cost of compliance, permits and safety requirements make giving lessons barely viable. I also hear more comments from grandma's on the beach interested in giving kiting/foiling/winging a go than people under 40. I do see lots of younger people just behind the beach however, on bike paths riding their scooters and skateboards... electric ones that is

I hate facebook but I had to join because that's what the local foil chat group used to co-ordinate, as well as some kids related groups like their sports teams. Need FB for Messenger. So I was dragged to it kicking and screaming. I don't friend or follow people, no family connections, no randoms, just what I need it for, messenger, groups and marketplace.

Now I belong to like 30 kite groups, some local, some kite gear buy/sell, some general australia-wide, some specific to the gear I use most, like the Axis riders group for example. Unlike here, the key users are there, like the brand designers are always in their respective groups discussing gear and what people are doing with it.

I joined Instagram because it's where the instant video & pic content is. Want to mindlessly flick down all the latest kite clips, highlights from the latest comp, vids by the brands pushing their new releases, pros making their content, it's all on Instagram with no filler and relatively few ads. Plus 'Ducktapewillfixit' and "Kookslams" have all the crash reels.

With all that content moved to social media, there's just not much left here

I notice Prone(foil) surfing to be growing fast in 2022.

There are two or three times as many dings around this year than last, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has already peaked?

kiting is in remission. Rarely seen a windsurfer in 2022.

two weeks ago, I saw a crowd of 15 or 20 prone foilers battling over knee high mush! It may have been some organised foil meet- not sure. I would have expected to see the same spot empty in similar conditions only a few years earlier.

Looking at the drop off, now I know why you're called Plummet

Kiteforum is still very busy and completely different topics about new gear and tricks etc Seabreeze is too old school and politically correct it's like looking at a kook forum full of smart asses. And individuals get attacked for voicing an opinion on a forum which is what forums are for ?? especially if they haven't got the 200 posts needed for credibility on Seabreeze lmfao. Plus prices in Aus have gone crazy so people are moving to other sports and there is no youth coming through.

An example is King of watersport can sell you a 2021 cabrinha switchblade with bar delivered in aus for $2370 that's what retailers in Aus want just for the kite as they are advertising 37% off more on some other gear as well.

And it's been a crappy season all over Oz.
Once you start to ride MTB or get a boat for fishing or another hobby. Kiting is no longer the priority.
Plus most kiters I know are between 40-65. And there kids aren't interested in learning when they can go for a surf instead.
And I agree let's bring back the ****e stirrers like myself ??.

I currently wing about twice as much as I kite. It depends on the wind and all the other factors.

If the wind is strong and there's waves the kiters come out and there's about equal numbers of kiters and wingers, slightly more wingers.

If the wind is a bit lighter then it's lots of wingers. That's a bit strange in that winging is soooo much more fun with waves and on the bay we need decent winds to get decent waves.

If the wind is light there's only kite foilers, ie. me.

Kiteforum is still active but the wing and foiling sub-forums are almost dead. Seabreeze in the wing and sup foiling forums are possibly the most active wing forums worldwide. It's strange that the fastest growing water sport has no dedicated active forum.

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Plummet said..
I say bring back some of those augmentative bastards that used to stir it up.

You want Lofty back!?

Perhaps it's time to bring "caushecan" back from the dead?

I think that one of the good things about forums is how it acts as a repository of collective knowledge which is searchable for specific collated topics, which I don't think facebook groups do a good job of (if at all). In fact it seems the current fb group for keeping up with the kite community keeps changing and when it does all previous knowledge is lost (except to facebook of course). So its a bit of a tragedy of lost knowledge/experience to the community (old or new) in that sense. The wheel has to be constantly re-invented which seems a waste of time and resources.

Kiting does seem to be an old white man sport too that sadly may well die with its generation. Like many outdoor sports, it seems the "golden age" generally covers the period when the concept is new and there is a lot of scope for the boundaries to be pushed and its not yet known what is possible and so there is a human attraction towards being creative and the first to define it. After a while however it just seems like all people can do is just to follow in someone else's footsteps (and still so even after training ridiculously hard), which is not nearly so attractive or exciting as a pursuit. Though occasionally there seems to a break through in either tech or mash-up of culture that seems to momentarily rejuviate it (e.g. foils or 360s/airs entering prone surfing comps).

One area where growth should occur is when the previous generation introduces their kids to the sport they love, so in theory a lot of old people doing kiting should be starting to result in more younger kiters, as the older generation teaches their kids, or at least supports them, to get into it. However I almost never see this happening anywhere. Why is this? I wonder whether this is because either kiting parents are too scared to let their kids try when they know all that can go wrong, or if it is just because kiting (like many wind sports) are kind of selfish hobbies in the sense that you disappear by yourself for a few hours when on the water... teaching kids would just compete in taking away away the "me time", especially when the wind is kranking.

Way back when I started wind sports was when windsurfing was the new thing. Heavy 20kg plastic boards were seen on lots of car roof racks and the big deal then was to plane If you could plane on a plank with a triangular battenless sail then you might be able to handle one of the fancy 9'6" slalom boards with a fully battened sail

Although I got into windsurfing because it looked like a fun thing to do on the water when the ski season was over, a lot of the sports early adopters were young people from sailing clubs. Sailing clubs often had fleets of dinghys or catamarans which were available for club members and their families to learn sailcraft and race or just have fun. A lot of these people then took up sailboarding and pushed the sport forward as an Australian industry such as WildWinds/KA Sails & JP gear and as a sport as olympic sailboarders.

I don't know if Sailing clubs have the same enthusiastic youth involved any more. One near me has frequently offered free lessons and use of their boats with little interest shown. I've also seen a catamaran offered to one person for free and they declined. Maybe the argumentative opinionated bastards have faded away and younger people are too polite or just don't do things outdoors much??
There's still plenty of surfers around, it's a simple sport equipment wise and low cost if you don't have to travel much. But it's limited to somewhere there's a wave.

Although the online community with windsports is fragmented, forums tend to cover a wider cohort of participants from all over the planet and they are a long term repository of info. However one thing that pisses me somewhat is how some posters don't list their location. Sometimes it's hard to tell from a post asking for advice whether they're in North America, Europe, some Island or Australia. Some answers really need a locale to give correct advice especially as readily available equipment can differ by location.

Maybe we're a bit soft in Australia and when the water/air temp drops below 20? are less inclined to go out. There seems to be a lot more activity in Europe with kiters out on the water on lakes and seashores fringed with ice and snow. Recently saw a sequence of videos of some guy in central Europe learning to wing foil through a European winter. The lake was a private waterway you had to pay to use and the weather was icy. But every time there was a gust of wind he was there in his drysuit falling in the lake gradually mastering the sport until in early spring he had his gybes wired and rarely fell. Seen similar vids learning to kitesurf/kitefoil.
Discuss?

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Mark _australia said..
Looking at the drop off, now I know why you're called Plummet

Yep, I tank the straight line down the hill.

Kites are becoming harder and harder to self launch and land, most pros have a frickern helper / photograper to launch them.

The manufacturers should develop a bridle / bar lines combo that powers the kite from zero to max power.

Winds been **** and the E bike is too much fun. haha..Try Crusher -Track 15 at Red hill..

Yeh , word at the beach is some kiteshops are diversifying and selling e-bikes successfully. Becoming like rebel sports .The hard core kiteshop is dissolving its kiting only mantra and business ethics .Its a ' lifestyle business ' is idealistic, now.Sell anything to survive .Next they will be selling house windows blinds and shutters,great mark up ,reliable supply chain. I need some new blinds and am loyal to my kiteshop .

When all the kiteshops had prime beachfrontage and signage back 15 years ago or so its all they needed to get punters in to enquire about it.

The enquiries led to it was hard and takes time so fat dad and round mum waddle off while theyre crotch goblins couldnt afford it

Fast forward a few years and shop rents go up and kiteshops selling coffees and icecreams to fat dad and round mum and the owners are burnt out from giving lessons and enter the backpacker instructors cheap and easy on the eyes. I should know i tried to marry one and taught kiteing in ....4 other countrys

Now the travelling instructors are a little tribal and its less about business weve worked for kooks who cant even do a raley for a decade or so and are doing dodgey tours around the world because no one can afford shops anymore. The sports dieing because the industry would rather reminisce on how fat dad and round mum would show interest in this new sport. So the industry just pumps out gimmicky bull**** after gimmicky bull**** product in hopes to recreate those years.

But instead of fat dad and round mum being told its too difficult it takes time the industry STUPIDLY thinks that hay! Wing ding takes no effort or time heres a sup and a wingding jump on have fun! Is a paddle too painful for fat dads shoulder?!? No problem hold this instead!

And whats saddest of all this is instead of fat dad and round mum and crotch goblins in tow getting into this gimmicky bull**** its somehow and i will NEVER understand this captured the interest of SO CALLED wind and water sportsmen?!?!?!

Its clear as day the **** is bull**** you cant grow anything in bull**** thats why its called bull**** and nothing will ever grow in wingdinging for the same reason.

You all need to be ashamed of yourselves. Fat dad and round mum are always just going to buy coffee and icecream you should have nurtured the sport and pushed it for what it was. People die all the effing time skiing and paragliding do you see those 2 sports trying to appeal to fatty and roundy ?? No do you see those sports try to appease theyre crotch goblins?!? No

Look at scooters verse skateboarding another cluster**** by the industry trying to scrape money off idiots who dont deserve to be involved in the sport. If only there was handlebars on a skateboard so little timmy didnt scrape his poor knee then round mum would buy him one for xmas

Nothing is more depressing then going to your mates ****n brand new skateshop and just tearing it up ****n everyones dream come true and then fast forward 12 months all the punk and deathmetal and snapped decks are replaced with ****ty scooters and your mates depressed as hell wearing a stupid flat cap grinding his teeth to mumble rap and explains hes sold more scooters in a week before xmas then skateboards the entire YEAR

im hitting 40 and cant risk the injurys anymore (if i was better at skateing then different story but ive always sucked at it and i refuse to ride anything without a couple kicks on it longboards are ankther embaressment) but skateings still cool but its .... i dont knkw... a warning sign

Anyways skiing ? Its still skiing! Glideing? Its still glideing! Skateings kiiiinda still skateing? In developing countrys maybe but wow did those lame ass scooters water it down right?!? Skateing would have been waaaay more rad without them. Maybe less money but **** the money honestly it should be about the sport.

Kiteing?!?! We got some numnuts claiming the worlds first double kiteloop?!? Ive accidently thrown doubles countless times while unhooked on any smaller kite its ****n hard not to if the bars bloody long and this big air push is just bleeerrrghh anyways i guess its getting interesting i just hope it becomes popular for them to do "big air" on skiis and lob themselves off mountain peaks least that will push the development of equipment to be on par with rock climbing or paraglidings safety standards. But for "big air" in australia?!? Your having a ****n laugh if your a young rider thinking youll do big air in australia you need to take the little red nose and curly wig off for a second and realise its got dick all about skill and its all about the weather conditions. So pull up some youtube videos on wind and have a bit of a study find some forcasting websites.... i used to know one what was it called?? Anyways not important, and look for the WINDIEST PLACE in country today keep your eye on that and realise if your not there... then your wasteing your time. (Its probably down in some isolated island near tasmania where the cows eat like cows used to back in the good old days before the dairy industry ****n ruined everything by trying to get dad to be fat and mum to be round if i had a random guess) get down there and have at it.


Anyways were all far too tribal and hate our siblings when really theyre the ones we should be helping and show love to but im telling you all right now wingdingers arent our sibling theyre ****n adopted


*see what happens when you ask for kozzie causehecan?

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vodka said..
When all the kiteshops had prime beachfrontage and signage back 15 years ago or so its all they needed to get punters in to enquire about it.

The enquiries led to it was hard and takes time so fat dad and round mum waddle off while theyre crotch goblins couldnt afford it

Fast forward a few years and shop rents go up and kiteshops selling coffees and icecreams to fat dad and round mum and the owners are burnt out from giving lessons and enter the backpacker instructors cheap and easy on the eyes. I should know i tried to marry one and taught kiteing in ....4 other countrys

Now the travelling instructors are a little tribal and its less about business weve worked for kooks who cant even do a raley for a decade or so and are doing dodgey tours around the world because no one can afford shops anymore. The sports dieing because the industry would rather reminisce on how fat dad and round mum would show interest in this new sport. So the industry just pumps out gimmicky bull**** after gimmicky bull**** product in hopes to recreate those years.

But instead of fat dad and round mum being told its too difficult it takes time the industry STUPIDLY thinks that hay! Wing ding takes no effort or time heres a sup and a wingding jump on have fun! Is a paddle too painful for fat dads shoulder?!? No problem hold this instead!

And whats saddest of all this is instead of fat dad and round mum and crotch goblins in tow getting into this gimmicky bull**** its somehow and i will NEVER understand this captured the interest of SO CALLED wind and water sportsmen?!?!?!

Its clear as day the **** is bull**** you cant grow anything in bull**** thats why its called bull**** and nothing will ever grow in wingdinging for the same reason.

You all need to be ashamed of yourselves. Fat dad and round mum are always just going to buy coffee and icecream you should have nurtured the sport and pushed it for what it was. People die all the effing time skiing and paragliding do you see those 2 sports trying to appeal to fatty and roundy ?? No do you see those sports try to appease theyre crotch goblins?!? No

Look at scooters verse skateboarding another cluster**** by the industry trying to scrape money off idiots who dont deserve to be involved in the sport. If only there was handlebars on a skateboard so little timmy didnt scrape his poor knee then round mum would buy him one for xmas

Nothing is more depressing then going to your mates ****n brand new skateshop and just tearing it up ****n everyones dream come true and then fast forward 12 months all the punk and deathmetal and snapped decks are replaced with ****ty scooters and your mates depressed as hell wearing a stupid flat cap grinding his teeth to mumble rap and explains hes sold more scooters in a week before xmas then skateboards the entire YEAR

im hitting 40 and cant risk the injurys anymore (if i was better at skateing then different story but ive always sucked at it and i refuse to ride anything without a couple kicks on it longboards are ankther embaressment) but skateings still cool but its .... i dont knkw... a warning sign

Anyways skiing ? Its still skiing! Glideing? Its still glideing! Skateings kiiiinda still skateing? In developing countrys maybe but wow did those lame ass scooters water it down right?!? Skateing would have been waaaay more rad without them. Maybe less money but **** the money honestly it should be about the sport.

Kiteing?!?! We got some numnuts claiming the worlds first double kiteloop?!? Ive accidently thrown doubles countless times while unhooked on any smaller kite its ****n hard not to if the bars bloody long and this big air push is just bleeerrrghh anyways i guess its getting interesting i just hope it becomes popular for them to do "big air" on skiis and lob themselves off mountain peaks least that will push the development of equipment to be on par with rock climbing or paraglidings safety standards. But for "big air" in australia?!? Your having a ****n laugh if your a young rider thinking youll do big air in australia you need to take the little red nose and curly wig off for a second and realise its got dick all about skill and its all about the weather conditions. So pull up some youtube videos on wind and have a bit of a study find some forcasting websites.... i used to know one what was it called?? Anyways not important, and look for the WINDIEST PLACE in country today keep your eye on that and realise if your not there... then your wasteing your time. (Its probably down in some isolated island near tasmania where the cows eat like cows used to back in the good old days before the dairy industry ****n ruined everything by trying to get dad to be fat and mum to be round if i had a random guess) get down there and have at it.


Anyways were all far too tribal and hate our siblings when really theyre the ones we should be helping and show love to but im telling you all right now wingdingers arent our sibling theyre ****n adopted


*see what happens when you ask for kozzie causehecan?

*Clapping* This is an absolutely fine example of The Great Australian Rant. Whether or not I agree with you is totally irrelevant; I salute your inventiveness!

Im trying very hard to not go on another one about how its the retailers fault for kiteing as an extreme sport dieing ..... the simple fact that they didnt want to stock 5 different models of kite from each brand i tot?lly understand. But as a knock on effect they only stocked the ****ty begginer friendly kites and then when anyone tried to upgrade and push theyre abilitys or use god forbid a dedicated freestyle kite the retailers all collectively would push the customer to buy one of theyre kites that are currently in stock which of course wouldnt be a high end freestyle kite or board because the numbers just arent there for them. Now they blame that every year a new model supercedes the last so i understand that too.

But what SHOULD have happened. Is customer walks in enquires about upgradeing to more dedicated freestyle kite or board and then shop orders them one instead of pushing them on somethinf more basic. They effectively dumbed down everyones ability and potential

In skiing? They order the crazy pro skiis not push them to whats in stock , paragliding? What stock?! The crazy good wing is ordered in and so on and so on

This was all snowballed by manufactureing schedules and discounts on mass purchases from the brands etc etc

The economy might not trickle down but the technology in sporting goods definitely does and to cut the sport off at its head just means your left with this lumpy withering body that is rideing left and right and doing a big jump while hooked in. Pathetic


For the last few years ive felt like talking about kitesurfing is basically same as when your at the beach carefully jump into your car makeing sure the sand on your flip flops doesnt go into the car, slideing your flip flops off delicately like you dont want to wake them then you hold them out the open door and give them a big slap together to get rid of the sand only to have all the bloody sand go flying back into your car, so youll have to excuse my absentiyismgism

For what it is worth ,my take on the new foils and wing thing is

Been Kiting for long time , still kiting when wind is up as best water option, No wind go for surf , no surf go for a Sup
Have tried the wing thing ,boring to say the least ,Done some foiling on my kite again cant feel the waves and the ocean so whats the point , want to skim over the water well buy a jet ski

Kited for nearly 20 years now
Surfed since i was 14
Sup with the wife for 10 years

At 65 hopefully still running amuck on a kite in the waves most times for another ten years

No excuses to stop being in the water and feeling the ocean

I predominantly just surf now have a 5 9 a 5 11 a 6 2 and a 6 4 had to ditch a 7 4 i loved so i could fit all this crap in the bus and everytime i kite or do coastal paragliding i wish i had of just grabbed a surfboard instead. Honestly getting to the top 5% of any sport with all the demands and requirements and plataeuing and no hits of dopamine because your basically treading water as far as progressing goes if not getting worse... whats the point especially when your 10 times better then anyone else on the water with you. I can count the amount of times on one hand ive seen someone even remotely better then me on the water kiteing in last like 7 years and thats not because im good at kiteing its cause your all so woefully freaking **** at kiteing. If i went to any proper kitespot in another country id be the fat old kooky man who cant even throw down a 5 in australia that basically makes you a god.

You know majority of the population hate the wind.
percentage remaining divided across many wind things.
kiting will win because it's minimal in kit.

Vodka, Sounds like you should be a windsurfer.

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vodka said..
I predominantly just surf now have a 5 9 a 5 11 a 6 2 and a 6 4 had to ditch a 7 4 i loved so i could fit all this crap in the bus and everytime i kite or do coastal paragliding i wish i had of just grabbed a surfboard instead. Honestly getting to the top 5% of any sport with all the demands and requirements and plataeuing and no hits of dopamine because your basically treading water as far as progressing goes if not getting worse... whats the point especially when your 10 times better then anyone else on the water with you. I can count the amount of times on one hand ive seen someone even remotely better then me on the water kiteing in last like 7 years and thats not because im good at kiteing its cause your all so woefully freaking **** at kiteing. If i went to any proper kitespot in another country id be the fat old kooky man who cant even throw down a 5 in australia that basically makes you a god.

Really modest too. Surprised the ego doesn't weigh you down on the shortboards, or that you can paddle with one hand one it.

After exceling at kiting perhaps you could take some spelling lessons. Easier than being taught humility, that one's quite hard. Doubt you'll get to the top 5% in that pursuit.

Your mum the skateshop owner must be proud.

This is what i mean you think doing an airpass is ego. Its like.. intermediate... the level of suck you have is just mind boggleing. Im surprised when mark launches a kite the universe doesnt get pulled into us.

lol. markie dosent kite, it scares him, he has just come in the kite forum to troll you

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vodka said.. This is what i mean you think doing an airpass is ego. Its like.. intermediate... the level of suck you have is just mind boggleing. Im surprised when mark launches a kite the universe doesnt get pulled into us.

If you want to think about the "level of suck" the other fellas have, you go for it. I just knew the handbag avatar pic has some hidden meaning....

It says love vodka on it.
I suggest you get with the program and start loveing vodka.

Also i remember mark, i used to tease him about haveing fat little fingers back in 2009? It was ahwhile ago looked like a baby had its hand crushed by a car door or an unpricked sausage on a park barbie wonder if i can find them in the ol seabreeze vault

Doesnt seem to go back that far.

Show us ya fingers mark and a quick shot of ya nostrals so we know its really you, dirtiest ears in the west they say.

Well at least there has been some bander on this thread.

Except for Vodka..... he sucked....
Keep up the bad work man.
I want to hear about another rant...... Except keep it to 4 to 5 paragraphs max this time.
You lost me on that top rant about halfway through.

Google popularity trend for worldwide search terms for the past 5 years;
trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2017-04-01%202022-05-01&q=windsurf,kitesurf,wing%20foil

Since 2004 worldwide;
trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=windsurf,kitesurf,wing%20foil


Google popularity trend for Australia search terms for the past 5 years;
trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2017-04-01%202022-05-01&geo=AU&q=windsurf,kitesurf,wing%20foil

Since 2004 Australia;
trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=AU&q=windsurf,kitesurf,wing%20foil