CROSSBOW BAR PRESSURE FIX

I have had quite a few emails from guys enquiring about a recent fix I carried out for the crossbow bar pressure. We just had to make sure that the system worked under a few different conditions and on a few different sized crossbow kites.

I have been very frustrated as have many Crossbow users with the bar pressure. A forum aquaintance of mine (Paul from Melbourne) wrote to me recently and alerted me to the fix I have been getting quizzed about. He was also reticent to share the knowledge without firstly testing that people could understand and make the necessary changes.

He has been up here with us on the Gold Coast for a few days and has been pleasantly surprised to find his testicles hanging where they were designed to due to the fabulous water temperature he has been kiting in (24 degrees plus) He tells me that since kiting in Melbourne his voice has been an octave higher and his nuts lived in his stomach !!!!!!!

If you are not confident with knots or loops and haven't played around extensively with bridles, lines etc., you should get assistance from someone who has the appropriate knowledge BEFORE making the changes listed herein.

I was so dissappointed with the bar pressure on my 16M Crossbow that I used it very infrequently. I have a 12M Rapture 1 which is my favourite kite due to the enourmous depower. Bar pressure has not been an issue with this kite due to the CC Bar setup.

I purchased a 16M Crossbow thinking that as it was a newer kite it would be better than the Rapture. Elbows ached after each session.

I modified an old bar incorporating a spinlock cleat which allows you to lock the bar in any position but this still did not fix the bar pressure problem. Just gave some respite while riding.

I have had an absolute **fight with my camera tonight thanks to Mr Microsoft and a recent service pack upgrade. So rather than wait any longer I have done three sketches to explain the changes needed to FIX THE BAR PRESSURE ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Essentially you will be replacing two sections of your bridle on each side of the kite with a single piece of bridle line in each case.

You will also be incorporating an additional small pulley onto this new piece of bridle on each side of the kite.

This new pulley allows the pressure involved when you sheet in and out or turn the kite to be transferred and shared more equally between the front and the rear lines.

The current front line setup has a fixed attachment point which causes high pressure at lower wind speeds.

This is well documented and accepted as truthfull by all except those on the forum who like to pretend that they are tougher than most. Some respondents on the forums just call anyone who mentions the pressure a whimp or some such equally useless name. Its best to look for answers rather than just Pooh Pooh the problem.

I was concerned about the resale value of my kite as well as its usability.

You will need to purchase two Ronstan RF 13101R-2 Kite Block Pulleys or alternateively two Riley 302 Pulleys.

You will also need a few meters of spectra bridle line. Thats all.

The problem fix will costs less than $20. (I personally think Cabrinha should send out a free retro kit)

Lay your kite on the ground and work on one side at a time. Lay out the bridle and detach the bridle lines as shown in the attached ilustrations Lay them onthe ground in front of your kite in approximately the same position as they were originally placed.

Loop the two pieces of bridle together that you will be replacing and measure the overall length. Add to this measurement, sufficient line to make a loop on one end and a pigtail knot on the other.

Buy your line and pulleys.

Make a loop on one end of the new piece of line. Attach this end to the kite. Thread your pulley onto the new bridle line and tie a pigtail knot on the other end.

Reconnect the remaining bridle lines back together.

Repeat this process for the other side of the kite.

This fix really does work. The bar pressure is similar to an ordinary C Kite and I have found that my 16M turns slightly better and relaunches very easily.

This fix has been tried in a variety of wind conditions and gives the most improvement in bar pressure on a 16M kite. There is also a large improvement in the 12M model.

It has not yet been tested on a 9M Kite.

Have a look at the following sketches. Sorry for the quality but it's 12.30 am and I am dog tired.

PM me or write in this forum if you need any further info. Any resourceful young person who needs some extra cash might even benefit from making a "fix pack" to sell to their mates.

Good Luck and enjoy your Crossbow fully at last.

If you don'y like the fix just put the old pieces back and work on your forearm muscles !!!!!!

Regards - Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

Diagrams:

Old Bridle Setup
www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=1201
Detach necessary bridle sections and measure new required bridle pice line length
www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=1200
Reattach new single bridle piece, pulley and other bridle sections
www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=1199

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz dog tired bosss,dog tired

F#@k that. Sell it and buy a kite thats not going to make you feel like an old man after each sess.

Keith

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Yarga PRO and Waroo to be.

I'm confused... could you post pics of the fix...

The diagrams are self explaning in the photos section Galah !

Hmm... work on your arm muscles... it's reaaaaally not that bad. I've been more than happy on my Cabrinha BOW's, kiting for hours and hours at a time with no pain or strain.

This whole bar pressure issue is all just a little bit of negative press in my opinion.

The fix is there for those who have experienced a problem.

Roughly drawn diagrams are posted on the photos section of this forum under the "Other" section heading.

Those of another planet who don't can just keep riding and enjoying.

Troll on RR

Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

Hey thanks for that. Does it still completely depower when you drop the bar?? Is the new setup more like the sonic bridle??

Don't know why looser with big arms and small brains put that negative feedback on the web-page. Maybe trying to hard to be cool I guess!!

Strong forearms don't help tendenitis or tennis elbow which is what you'll end up with on teh 16m Xbow.....

oh, you mean THOSE forums... found them - thanks!

Great work Fitzy,

Where can we get the kite pulleys and a few meters of spectra bridle line in Oz?

Regards Bob

The kite completely depowers as usual. The fix does not effect that at all. It simply distributes the load more evenly between the front and rear lines when sheeting in or turning the kite.

You really don't even need the stopper ball. The pressure is light enough now to not require a stopper to ride against if you so desire.

The original setup has a static front line attachment position. The new pulley allows the front line to move along the new piece of line creating a "v" where the pressure is most balanced, depending on the agle of attack of the kite.

The fact that the line was prevously not able to move meant that the bar pressure increased as you changed the angle of attack when sheeting in.

This really does work guys. One handed riding on a bow is now the norm.

I purchased the Ronstan pulleys from Whitworth Marine and used two pieces of old bridle from an old Naish AR 3.5 two line kite that has been gathering dust for many years now. The ends of the bridle line already had loops stitched into them and I just tied a pigtail knot on the other end.

Any high quality spectra of the same or slighly larger diameter will do. This can be puchased from most ship chandlers.

Just remember that it has to be able to freely move through the new pulley.

Good luck and say goodbye to kiters (tennis) elbow.

Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

Thanks so much for that Fitzy, looks like I'll try it on the 12m when I get the time....just too busy kiting at the moment.

Get a SONIC!!! Problem solved!!

or a nova
RRD
waroo
...

Mate it is a dead set 15 Min. fix. (excluding shopping time.)

Buying a Sonic or a Nova won't help those who have already laid out the dough for a 16 Crossbow.

But this fix will help.

Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

Does a x-bow have more bar pressure than a switchy?? coz i thought they used the same system. and my bar pressure is fine on my switchblade

The switchblade already has this modification as standard.

Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

Gday fitzy. Just looking at the diagrams that you posted on the retro to the 16mtr bow,which me and mate have one each.It appears that on the picture you have left out one of the bridle lines.the line that runs from the kite to the middle of section "E",Parrallel and in between "D" and "F". We count there are 7 lines that attach to the leading edge of the kite!!!!!.We see that the pulley should be at the join of the missing line and where it joins to "E".

Helpfull advice on this to clarify this point would be greatly appreciated before we do this to our kites and end up on the news in a body bag.
Thanks
Scratcher

Hi Scratcher

There are seven attatchment points on each side of the 16M Bow

I just didn't bother putting in (drawing) the attatchment point that is closest to the centre of the kite as this is not in the equation.

The line you will remove from the leading edge is at the 4th attachment point from the end of the kite (D) You will also remove the shorter line (C) The new replacement line will be the total length of these two lines. (C D)

Line (E) will be reused and attached to the pulley end. The little piece of line (I) will be reattached to the other end of (E) where it was originally as this is your front line attachment point.

The easiest way to look at the fix is to say that (C) and (D) will now be a single piece of line and the end of (E) will have a pulley on it allowing it to slide back and forth on the new single line (C D)

The old junction point of (C) (D) and (E) Can now move back and forth as required by the current conditions

The old system meant that the juntion of (C)(D) and (E) was a FIXED POINT and could not move. The new system allows the old junction to move backwards and forwards along the new line (C D) depending on how hard you are sheeting in. (Changing the angle of attack)

Hope this helps. Get set for the weekend.

PM me if you want my phone number for a chat.

Regards Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

I hear it works! Bravo....tried to find some block tackles today and they are all sold out. I recon Fitzy is on the Ronston payrole

Looks like I'll get to kite even longer with the mod Thanks again for the post....my XBow is now a Swixbow.

I wish Gruezi - I wish

Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

Mate works fantastic!!!
Modifiy my 12m xbow and now has the same bar pressure as a switchblade but preformes like a crossbow very happy
Thanks heaps
Ive worked out the 12m new line is 247 and a half cm long
Now just need to measure up the 16m,9m,7m

The mod works great Fitzy, I did it to my 12M Cb demo, and I noticed that the Slingy TD has the same bridle config as the CB, so this mod should also work on that kite. I will try it soon and let everyone know.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

Hi there.
I don't care what the macho man will have to say! I have a 16m and 12m Crossbow's and I think they are great kites, However, the bar pressure was all the time there, an I have to say that after one orv two hours session I could feel my arms a little bit heavy. As I am not training for the World Wrestling Championship and I want to enjoi a kitesurfing session, I just implemented the mod to both my kites. Today I had an hour long session with my 12m and magic the bar pressure was significantly reduced, and it looks like the kite had a little bit more grunt. If before the mod, I thought the Crossbows are great kites, now I can say that they are fantastic. Thank all those put a lot of work and time in publishing the instructions. Grat effort, with fantastic rezults. javascript:insertsmilie('')
Smile

Silviu

Sorry for the spelling, I forgot to run a spellchecker

Thanks for the feedback and thanks to mate Paul in Melbourne.

Its good to hear that your experiences with the fix have been the same as ours.

Same info has been posted on Kiteforum but as usual there are some dongers still pooh poohing the idea.

I just think that if you percieve that there is a problem, ty the fix. If you feel there is no problem don't. Pretty simple.

Regards - Fitzy Gold Coast OZ

Geat mod...used it in crap winds today, but works a dream

quote:

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Originally posted by Kitepower Australia
I noticed that the Slingy TD has the same bridle config as the CB, so this mod should also work on that kite. I will try it soon and let everyone know.

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Dont think so Steve - praps u should look again Same set-up praps but different with lengths = big difference.
Whatever - I'll be interested to see the result
My 2c's - Been flying the ssTD for about 12 sessions now & dont feel any need for any less bar pressure. If it hadnt been for the 'hot topic' of forum discussions re the bar pressure of crossbows I really wouldnt have even noticed any significant difference in bar pressure from my fuels to the SSTD.
Thanks for the offer Steve but I dont think us SS riders need it.

BTW I put up my 15M fuel today for the 1st time since getting my 10M turbo.
NB: I used to love my 15M Fuel; esp when it was light & variable like today.
It was an OK sesssion but IMO (for what its worth) bring on the 16M Sling Shot Turbo asap.
For those who like em - great ! Keep your 'C' kites. But keep em all to yourselves. For mine - flat kites are "GO"

quote:

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Originally posted by puppetonastring

quote:

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Originally posted by Kitepower Australia
I noticed that the Slingy TD has the same bridle config as the CB, so this mod should also work on that kite. I will try it soon and let everyone know.

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Dont think so Steve - praps u should look again Same set-up praps but different with lengths = big difference.
Whatever - I'll be interested to see the result
My 2c's - Been flying the ssTD for about 12 sessions now & dont feel any need for any less bar pressure. If it hadnt been for the 'hot topic' of forum discussions re the bar pressure of crossbows I really wouldnt have even noticed any significant difference in bar pressure from my fuels to the SSTD.
Thanks for the offer Steve but I dont think us SS riders need it.

BTW I put up my 15M fuel today for the 1st time since getting my 10M turbo.
NB: I used to love my 15M Fuel; esp when it was light & variable like today.
It was an OK sesssion but IMO (for what its worth) bring on the 16M Sling Shot Turbo asap.
For those who like em - great ! Keep your 'C' kites. But keep em all to yourselves. For mine - flat kites are "GO"

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G'day Puppet

In no way am I saying that there was or is anything wrong with the bar pressure on the Cabrinha CB or the Slingshot TD, I have them both and fly both and have never had a problem, but some people do, so its best not to ASSume that all riders are like you and me.

I will check the TD bridle lengths and report back here, but I am very confident the differences are minimal and that the mod will work if people want to do it.

We have sold a lot of TD kites, because they are awesome and I am curious to learn and pass on any knowledge that could help a kiter get more from their kite.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

Hey Fitzy.....I've had my 16m Crossbow for about 2 months now and did notice the elbow strain at first but don't feel it now so much. I've just bought a 12m aswell and heading off to Maui for a week ,leaving tonight.
Can't wait to try your mod out....the thought of even more grunt outta one of these babies is awesome !!!
Should be blowin it tits off at kite beach, so good to see how elbows enjoy 7 days of reduced bar pressure too.
Get back to ya from Maui...
Cheers and thanks for the tips.
Terry

Hy,
I just want to say THANKS to KitePower (Steve in special) for theyr support for this forum. It is very nice to see somoene taking some real steps in promoting and helping the sport and, at the seame time, providing technical support and guidance.