Hi Brains trust,

I've had 7, 9 and 12m 2017 North Evos since new in 2016 and got 2 brand new bars with them. I mainly kite on the 12 with the larger bar. Through a lot of use, and pretty poor management of the larger bar, I was in need of new lines. On the sly, Wifey went out and bought me brand new 2020 Duotone click bar for Christmas (bless her, there should be more like her...). Needless to say I was stoked!

First test of the bar was on the 7 in nuking conditions: Perfect feel and power on the new bar
Second run was on the 9 in pretty solid wind and surf: Perfect feel and power on the new bar
Wind dropped off a little and I needed the 12 over the next few days. This is where things got strange. The kite felt really under-powered on the new bar even at full power in ideal 12m conditions. I shrugged it off as maybe one of those weird low wind density days, but on a second run on the 12 noticed the same thing, then same again on the third day. Frustrated, I tried the old bar and kite performed perfectly.

On a whim, I tried one of the line extension things that came with the Click bar and changed from the standard 20cm extensions to the 25cm (increased center line length by 5cm) and bamm, the 12 was back to normal power.

Questions:
Is it reasonable to assume that the bridal lines have shrunk on the 12, but remained the same on the 7 and 9 or is there maybe another reason?
Is there anywhere to reference correct bridal line lengths on the 2017 Evos?
Is it possible to buy short pigtails for bridal lines to extend them by 5cm, allowing me to remove the extensions from the click bar center lines and make the bar usable for all of the kites without having to change the extensions every time I change kites?

Simon
WA

Or you were kiting in mandurah ... and it's crap wind. ? Although it's utopia compared to Sydney's wind. OMfckG it's bad.

Bridal shrink? Isn't that when you've had too much to drink on your wedding night?

Select to expand quote

Simsurf said..
Hi Brains trust,

I've had 7, 9 and 12m 2017 North Evos since new in 2016 and got 2 brand new bars with them. I mainly kite on the 12 with the larger bar. Through a lot of use, and pretty poor management of the larger bar, I was in need of new lines. On the sly, Wifey went out and bought me brand new 2020 Duotone click bar for Christmas (bless her, there should be more like her...). Needless to say I was stoked!

First test of the bar was on the 7 in nuking conditions: Perfect feel and power on the new bar
Second run was on the 9 in pretty solid wind and surf: Perfect feel and power on the new bar
Wind dropped off a little and I needed the 12 over the next few days. This is where things got strange. The kite felt really under-powered on the new bar even at full power in ideal 12m conditions. I shrugged it off as maybe one of those weird low wind density days, but on a second run on the 12 noticed the same thing, then same again on the third day. Frustrated, I tried the old bar and kite performed perfectly.

On a whim, I tried one of the line extension things that came with the Click bar and changed from the standard 20cm extensions to the 25cm (increased center line length by 5cm) and bamm, the 12 was back to normal power.

Questions:
Is it reasonable to assume that the bridal lines have shrunk on the 12, but remained the same on the 7 and 9 or is there maybe another reason?
Is there anywhere to reference correct bridal line lengths on the 2017 Evos?
Is it possible to buy short pigtails for bridal lines to extend them by 5cm, allowing me to remove the extensions from the click bar center lines and make the bar usable for all of the kites without having to change the extensions every time I change kites?

Simon
WA

Would be real easy to splice up a couple extensions Simon. Half meter of 4mm dyneema from local marine store and YouTube will show you how. I've done it before, need a knot and a loop, I stitched through the splice with some dental floss just to keep it all together when not under load.

You just need to tie another knot in the steering tails on the kite to give a shorter position. Same result as making the front lines longer.

The main bridle.line that the pulley runs on, on north kites is made of dyneema 3mm. It absorbs sand and stuff over time causeing it to shrink. Useally the length is printed on bridle line and you can check it. Pretty commkn for them to be 150mm too short, throwing the entire kite out of wack

Select to expand quote

Adam''KiteRepair said..
The main bridle.line that the pulley runs on, on north kites is made of dyneema 3mm. It absorbs sand and stuff over time causeing it to shrink. Useally the length is printed on bridle line and you can check it. Pretty commkn for them to be 150mm too short, throwing the entire kite out of wack

Out of interest, can you remember if the measurements should be done under tension?

If the bridle is otherwise in good condition, you can sometimes get a little extra life out of them by handwashing them and drying under tension. The detergent can get some of the sand/dried sea salt out that makes the strands thicker. You'll never get back to factory condition but it can help get a little extra time out of them but check the line where the sliders sit as it may be worth changing the whole bridle over.

Hi Simsurf, sorry you lost the whole lot of us when you started with brains trust. If you started with stupid subjective opinions you would have got some corkers.

Select to expand quote

littlewing said..
Hi Simsurf, sorry you lost the whole lot of us when you started with brains trust. If you started with stupid subjective opinions you would have got some corkers.

Ain't that the truth lol.

Simplistically, your 12m is flying nose down. The simplest solution is to make new pig tails for the front lines of the 12m to make the kite sit back a bit.

Assuming the front line connection on the kite is a loop, get a couple of lengths of 3mm yachting rope (anything will do with a breaking strain of 400kg or so. Sheathed line makes for bigger more prominent knots). Fold it in half and tie a figure-8 knot.

Lark's head the kite front loop onto the knot. Lark's head the new loop onto the line. Away you go.

Test it for a while and adjust it. If you get to a measurement you like then you can splice up a nice looking extension for permanent use.

A more concerning thing is that I've been kiting for 20 years and ride my kites for about 300 hours each. I have never had to deal with bridle stretch/shrink.

I do a fair bit of line checking and adjusting, but even that makes no real difference in day to day riding. Most of it is easily accommodated by setting the trimmer and adjusting the bar position by feel.

PS I normally add and extra knot in the rear pig tails to make it easier to oversheet the kite. I like that pulse of extra grunt. I have recently built a long travel bar so I can set the kite any way I like on the fly.

... or you could tie a couple of knots in the rear pigtails.

Select to expand quote

Adam''KiteRepair said..
The main bridle.line that the pulley runs on, on north kites is made of dyneema 3mm. It absorbs sand and stuff over time causeing it to shrink. Useally the length is printed on bridle line and you can check it. Pretty commkn for them to be 150mm too short, throwing the entire kite out of wack

What other type of line do they typically use for the bridle ? The majority of my kites don't really look like dyneema, unless its sheathed ?? Have been searching for some to have a go at redoing a bridle.
Have bought dyneema and shock cord from here for fixing bars etc. www.ropegalore.com.au

Thanks all for your feedback. I'm certainly no splicer so making up extensions etc myself is not going to happen. I'll try knots in the rear lines and if no luck buy some pig tail extensions for the kite bridals.
Still trying to convince the minister for finance that a new 12 would be the best option though

Do Brides Shrink??? I've never been married but from casual observation they seem to pull the rip cord once the ring is on the finger

Select to expand quote

Slashrockson said..

Adam''KiteRepair said..
The main bridle.line that the pulley runs on, on north kites is made of dyneema 3mm. It absorbs sand and stuff over time causeing it to shrink. Useally the length is printed on bridle line and you can check it. Pretty commkn for them to be 150mm too short, throwing the entire kite out of wack

What other type of line do they typically use for the bridle ? The majority of my kites don't really look like dyneema, unless its sheathed ?? Have been searching for some to have a go at redoing a bridle.
Have bought dyneema and shock cord from here for fixing bars etc. www.ropegalore.com.au

I use differnet types of line for bridle mate. Depends on brand of kite. I always tey and match manufacture spec

My brides stretched after 2 kids

I bet the steering lines on the old 12m bar have shrunk, meaning the 12 is continually more powered up than when flying on the new bar with 4 equal lines.
20cm of shrinkage over 20m lines after a few seasons would be totally normal. Especially when steering lines aren't under any real load.

... absolutely the bridles shrink,,,,, you better believe it. Mine have on my 14m Evo 2017 have,,,,,,,,,annnnnnnnd the surprise is, the thicker lower sections were the worst.

A bit of background,,,,, I used to mostly ride big kites and if it got above mid 20's I'd bring out my Evo. The Evo spent most of its flying time in its upper wind ranges but it wasn't always windy so unfortunately the Evo remained in good nic.

I fell in love with foiling so I started to use my smaller kites a lot more so of course now the bridles were getting worked more and I noticed it felt different. I now essentially only use my 9m Neo and very rarely do I jump back on the 14 Evo but when I do, it kinda feels wrong.

I did some measuring of the bridles and to my surprise, sections of the bridles were indeed shorter,,,, definitely not as advertised on the little tags so I added small bits to make the measurements exact, and I mean exact to what was printed on those tags and the kite performance came back.

So, seeing as you probably use your 12m more often than your other kites, there is a very good chance your bridles have shrunk and it only takes a few mm here and there for you to feel it.

Oh and by the way,,,,,,,, make sure your Y point on your click bar is at the highest position. This position essentially mirrors the standard 5 line bar. Slide the little 'thumb screw eyelet' adjuster to the highest setting on the front lines then trim the back lines accordingly using the spare bits in the pocket of the click bar bag.

I found that the lower the Y, you will change the geometry of how the bridle loads the kite and therefore change its feel..... the lower you go, the longer you will have to compensate the back lines. If you mirror the standard 5 line bar you can't go wrong. The thing is with the 2017 Evo is it doesn't have the different knots to attach to compensate for different bars ie lower Y points. Other model kites such as the Neo or the Rebel for example, have different knots for you to attach too, to compensate for this so therefore you don't have to do the 're-trimming'.

Anyway, good luck and hope this helps.


Cheers for now,

Robbie

My "bridle" gets shrinkage in cold water.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..
My "bridle" gets shrinkage in cold water.

Interesting, what pig tails do u have?

Select to expand quote

warwickl said..

Plummet said..
My "bridle" gets shrinkage in cold water.

Interesting, what pig tails do u have?

My pigtails become pendulous with age.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..

warwickl said..

Plummet said..
My "bridle" gets shrinkage in cold water.

Interesting, what pig tails do u have?

My pigtails become pendulous with age.

I can relate at 73 yo but still working but floppy