Hi All,

I think I've worked out why I struggle to land most of my jumps and backrolls and just want to confirm.
I presume for any trick your harness should be supporting you from the centre of your mass - i.e. roughly from the middle of you hips.

My harness always migrates to around my chest during a session making it 1) hard to breath 2) hard to reach the bar/depower and 3) I think hard to keep my legs underneath me when trying to do a trick.
I'm a guy with quite wide hips so no matter how tight I do up my harness it always rides up and ends up just under my chest (sometimes over my nipples).


So do I just lack skill and need to practise more - or should I buy a seat harness so the kite is always pulling from the middle of my mass?
cheers, Steve

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Jim621 said..
Hi All,

I'm a guy with quite wide hips so no matter how tight I do up my harness it always rides up and ends up just under my chest (sometimes over my nipples).

So do I just lack skill and need to practise more - or should I buy a seat harness so the kite is always pulling from the middle of my mass?
cheers, Steve

Jim621 - unfortunately with your Pear shape figure (yes same as chicks ) any kind of waist harness is gonna ride up and have a nipple munch

Go try as many seat harnesses as you can - make sure the hook sits a little on the high side rather than low, and wear the leg straps loose... the hook ends up the same height as a regular waist BUT will not slide up further...

This will let you get a lot more rotation and mobility out of it.

Dont listen to Shop yarns and brand names mean nothing - they should have a bar setup hangin from the wall, put it on and hang from different angles for basic jump simulation.

If the seat butt part is cut too high an angle - it will give you the best Wedgie within seconds of jumping, make sure it supports you properly.

Also make sure the hook pad is wide enough, that if the hook rolls over - no metal parts stick into you....

Timing wise - yes more practice !

Check out the progression vid clips for explanation of Mistakes and How to correct it - you'll learn faster !!!

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SaveTheWhales said..

Check out the progression vid clips for explanation of Mistakes and How to correct it - you'll learn faster !!!

Grrr. What is it with Progression Video advice? Watch Progression Videos, you will progress... You will learn a lot... blahblah...



Those videos are so cushy, warm and nice, but so far from reality it makes me think they probably cause more harm than good. I wonder how many beginners have watched those videos (me included) and have actually failed, fail, fallen and wondered... But the video said I should do it that wwaaayyy!!??

Yeah watch the videos but please take their advice with a grain of salt, or even better a grain of sand!

For one, they are set in perfect flat water conditions, filmed in exotic Egyptian locations or Europe. Here, it's vastly different. We have chop, waves, stupid tourists, local laws, kooks, and winds that are harder to predict than the lotto!

Real training comes from a professional trainer, one on one, in the conditions local to you. Not those trendy hippie videos.

off topic, but....I've found the Progression videos very, very useful. Yeah we have chop and other things, but so does everyone. Ive loaded them on the ipad and its fantastic to quickly jump to the specific thing i'm trying to learn. Cant recommend them more highly.

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Loftywinds said..

SaveTheWhales said..

Check out the progression vid clips for explanation of Mistakes and How to correct it - you'll learn faster !!!

Grrr. What is it with Progression Video advice? Watch Progression Videos, you will progress... You will learn a lot... blahblah...

Real training comes from a professional trainer, one on one, in the conditions local to you. Not those trendy hippie videos.

Ha ha Jim - Lofty has volunteered to professionally coach you

Seems Jim has got the first part of jumps together - and maybe as simple as needing to pull his front hand a little sooner, to get bar pressure and straighten himself out...

The Progression basic vids show this - Without getting chop bounced off your board or smashed by lightning fast surf sets = less to think about and more to focus on for BASIC tricks..

Thats Great simple advice - not forgetting people all have different perception abilities to learn..

1. Auditory listening Learners or verbal
2. Visual learners
3. Kinesthetic or Action learners

People use mix at different ratios, I learnt how to pull my front hand earlier and that helped me in front rolls...

I dont wear a Bikini just because a chic in the vid had one on either perception of reality huh

I still use a seat , the wedgie is worth it . lol
If it works better for u use it .

Go try a seat harness

You probably wont like it at first

You maybe even hate it

The piont of attactment is so much lower

Pulls form the hips and butt,not from the waist or lower chest [if it rides up]

Takes a bit of getting used too

But if you stick with it,you may never go back to a waist harness

Be sure to tighten as much as possible

I have never had wedgie or crushed family jewels from one
as I have read sometimes

Pros, can jump higher,due to to lower POA [basic phyisics]
better for getting upwind,
never rides up,no need to be constantly pulling it back down
never twists around your body,
can kite all day no sore back
more comfortable,better for a long session


Cons,Not as good for body dragging,maybe
Does not twist around your hips so not as good for going toeside,
Not as COOL as a waist harness
Feels a bit like a nappy

Seat harnesses are good, and defiantly give you a more locked in feel and will probably allow you to progress faster with your current problem, I have both and i ride slightly differently depending on what im wearing.

Its hard to comment on your problem when you cant see your riding style but i would try a couple of things based on what i found worked for me:

Firstly try to loosen that harness up, you want it to be able to slide around a bit, not be locked too you, otherwise it will crawl up on your ribs and sit there and make it hard to breathe and kite as well as hard to move around for a week after you kite.

Secondly keep your kite low, the lower the better, what you will find is that your harness will slip straight back down while your actually riding and you wont need to touch it at all, it may take a little to get used to the extra freedom but it may solve your problem without needing to outlay more money for a new harness.

Let me know how it feels if you get a chance to try it.

Do not try a seat harness,

learn to load and pop, try to keep your shoulders square and when rotating for a back/front roll think about hand placement as this can cause the kite to move which may loop or throw you off balance, keep your eyes on the landing and look down wind (pretty key) and spot where you are going to land, throwing your head to much will cause the off axis spin you are talking about.

also a bit of patience

Seat harnesses are for kooks, your shape has nothing to do with your waist harness riding up, it's your technique that is flawed

Sounds like you need a harness that fits properly - what are you using?
could always try some shorts....

Thanks all for the comments.

So many differing opinions! its hard to know what to try first - I guess I should try them all!
Stay with waist harness Vs try a seat harness
Watch progressions DVD Vs get some lessons or just practise more


So what I will try is
1) loosen my harness to allow it to slide back down after it rides up to my chest - see if that works.
2) go test a few seat harnesses at a shop, and possibly buy one.
3) watch progressions again, and pay attention to where I should be looking while landing.
4) if I still cant get my landings right - ill go get a professional lesson

thanks, Steve

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Jim621 said..
Thanks all for the comments.

So many differing opinions! its hard to know what to try first - I guess I should try them all!
Stay with waist harness Vs try a seat harness
Watch progressions DVD Vs get some lessons or just practise more


So what I will try is
1) loosen my harness to allow it to slide back down after it rides up to my chest - see if that works.
2) go test a few seat harnesses at a shop, and possibly buy one.
3) watch progressions again, and pay attention to where I should be looking while landing.
4) if I still cant get my landings right - ill go get a professional lesson

thanks, Steve

just practice mate, some aspects just take time and all the gear in the world will not help poor technique when you are at the beach ask someone or speak to people and get a feel for some feedback.

Just another suggestion. Hit the gym or go for surf. Build up your upper body muscle, especially back,sides and chest. Worked for me.

Don't loosen your harness

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Rails said..
Don't loosen your harness

Hi Rails,

Im using an Ion waist harness (approx. 2012 model), so should be new enough not to be the cause of my issues.

Whats your reason for not loosening my harness?
I didn't believe loosening it would be a long term fix, but thought id give it a try once.

thanks, Steve

as you progress you will ride with the kite lower and the pull wont be so upwards. If you look at others with a waist harness their lines will be approx 90degrees from their body. if you are riding with the kite high and standing to upright it will ride up. it's just a technique thing. try flying the kite a bit lower (45deg) if you go to a seat harness untill u get better it might help. waist definatley better further down the track though. I also found a seat harness hurt me more because it caused the back to bend too low. A waist seemed to pull on a better area.

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Jim621 said..

Rails said..
Don't loosen your harness

Hi Rails,

Im using an Ion waist harness (approx. 2012 model), so should be new enough not to be the cause of my issues.

Whats your reason for not loosening my harness?
I didn't believe loosening it would be a long term fix, but thought id give it a try once.

thanks, Steve

Im not talking about having a sloppy fish around your waist that doesn't support anything and falls off, but a lot of people start out and really try to tighten them up like a corset, you want it snug but not constricting, i mentioned this point because you said in your original post.

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Jim621 said..
no matter how tight I do up my harness it always rides up and ends up just under my chest

I generally find that once adjusted you shouldn't need to tighten or loosen your harness to get in and out of it, still snug but not tight, if in doubt head to you local shop and they will show you where it should be and give you some friendly advice on kite position too, which is by far the most important part of my original post, and has been mentioned a few times now.

he's right, tight but not too tight and its no good if it's too loose...

What exactly is your problem?
More then likely the answer is better technique...

Depends on your riding style, if your always jumping a waist will naturally ride up,body shape is one of the main factors aswell, the mystic code 1 is a great adjustable harness, which uses the boa tension system, the are some great lightweight seat orientated harnesses, the dakine vega and some seat /short sets, I use both throughout the season and find a seat is a bit limiting for toe side , as for boosting and the rest it's just a different feel of pull but you soon get used to it, handplants, dead men are better with seats , unhooking is better with waist, use what suits you not what others tell you

Oh I've never trapped my nut sack in a waist harness

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Kamikuza said..
What exactly is your problem?
More then likely the answer is better technique...

hi Kamikuza,

I'm sure you are right and my technique is to blame for not being able to land my jumps.
I find when I go to redirect the kite I get pulled off balance just before I hit the water ie my head/chest get pulled towards the kite, and my legs eventually follow - usually too late though to have the board under my body for the landing.

The other issue is not being able to reach the bar once I let go of it (making it hard to unloop the kite lines after a backroll) and reach the depower when needed.

I recon a seat harness will help in these areas, so ill give one a go and see if I like it.

cheers everyone for the input.
thanks, Steve

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Jim621 said...

Kamikuza said..
What exactly is your problem?
More then likely the answer is better technique...

hi Kamikuza,

I'm sure you are right and my technique is to blame for not being able to land my jumps.
I find when I go to redirect the kite I get pulled off balance just before I hit the water ie my head/chest get pulled towards the kite, and my legs eventually follow - usually too late though to have the board under my body for the landing.

The other issue is not being able to reach the bar once I let go of it (making it hard to unloop the kite lines after a backroll) and reach the depower when needed.

I recon a seat harness will help in these areas, so ill give one a go and see if I like it.

cheers everyone for the input.
thanks, Steve

How you've described you'd benefit from some basic core strengthening exercises,I'll guarantee it

You're redirecting too early and/or sheeting out on the way down.

The kite is diving and rushing to the edge of the window so you're getting pulled off balance, down and to the side. When you get better, you'll be able to deal with it by landing toeside or looping the kite.

Watch this...



Key point - you need to redirect even later than you think.

Other things that help:
Bring your knees up to your chest and lean back when you're airborne.
Try and keep your shoulders square to the kite.
You probably don't need to sheet out at all, until you're back on the water.
Use the kite as a parachute; if you keep the kite "behind" you until you're about to land, the redirect will bring the kite over the zenith and the little bit of lift that provides will soften your landing.
If you redirect too late, just splash down bum first... then redirect and ride away like you're too hit and wanted a dip to cool off