Hi all. I am hitting the water for the first time this season and need some advice on which gear to buy.

I have had 2 lessons and got up and going in the 2nd one (albeit 10m at a time before sinking in due to too much back foot pressure).

I am 6'3" and weigh 83kg so I have been told I should be looking at a 12M kite. I will look into a 2nd heavy weather kite down the track. I will be doing most of my kiting in St Kilda on flat water while I am learning but will venture into the surf occasionally.

I am on a budget so 2nd hand is the go and have narrowed it down to the following:

Kites

2012 12M Carbrinha Switchblade - Owned by experienced kite boarder and apparently only used as a 2nd kite for one season so hasn't had much use - though pig tails may confirm this or not. Yet to view it. No damage or repairs
2012 12M North Rebel - There are 2 to choose from here. Apparently both have had good use (one a little more than the other) with no damage or repairs
2011 12M Naish Park - Apparently in great condition with no damage or repairs.

The North kites are around the same money, the Cabrinha is marginally cheaper and the Naish is considerably cheaper but a year older.

Boards
141cm North Spike with fair use. I am told this would be great to learn on but will be outgrown very quickly. I can return this to the retailer within 6 months for a full credit towards another board.

139cm North X-ride used only 3 times.

Both boards are around the same price. I am told the X-ride will take me further without needing to upgrade.

Any thoughts you have are most appreciated particularly concerning the 4 line vs 5 lines for beginners debate.

Thanks guys and gals.

12m for a beginner hey has been advised....

Where are you located?

Congratulations on choosing to get into an awesome sport!!!

I have been kiting since last summer so hopefully I can offer a reasonable view based on my experience to date and still being a relative newbie

Firstly don't skimp on the kite. The kite is what powers you and without a decent source of power you are not going to have much fun out there.

I suggest an easy flying SLE / Hybrid e.g. stay away from C kites at this stage, Rebel or Carbrinha are probably both good in this regard. A 12m kite is probably a reasonable start point I would think for your size and weight.

The first Kite I bought was a 10m Rebel although I shortly after that bought a North Evo which I now greatly prefer, you may also want to consider looking at this model as it is still a great kite to learn on. Also the other thing I would stress about buying a kite is that if you are not 100% sure of the history then do not buy it. If the equipment is dodgy and you get into difficulty it could get nasty really quick and there are a number of things that could happen e.g. line snap, bladder burst etc. If you can stretch to a new kite go for it else buy one through a shop where they can guarantee its condition.

Regarding 4 or 5 line setups when i was learning I learnt on 4 line kites and when I bought my own they were all 5th line. I will be honest at the stage of learning I did not notice a real difference. It is a little more work rigging a 5 line kite and I believe the 5th line can get wrapped around the kite in surf although this has never happened to me. A 5 line Kite is supposed to be the safest option as they are meant to have more depower and they depower to a dedicated central line rather than to one of the front lines on a 4 line kite. But that said I believe kites are now pretty good and both options are regarded to be totally safe so I would not get too hung up on this particular point.

In terms of a board decide what style of riding you want to get into and then buy that sort of board, e.g. if you want to get into freestyle then get a freestyle board day 1. I would suggest something in the 135-140/41-42 size. If you have gotten up and riding after 2 lessons you will progress quick and the board will probably be one of the first things you will want to change. The North X-Ride may be alright, I would probably have a look at the Buy & Sell pages on here for a board as there are heaps of good deals and boards are pretty safe to buy second hand, far more so than kites.

Hope that helps

Eppo I am in Vic. As mentioned will be spending most of my time in the flat water of St Kilda.

Axion thanks that is great info.

The North kites are all from a kite shop in St Kilda who I understand to be one of the more reputable shops. The Cabrinha is from a guy in Point Cook (bit of a drive).

Tbh I am not sure of the different styles of kiting as yet. Like I said, very fresh. If someone would mind explaining that for me that would be great.

Do I gather the Naish Park is one of the C Kites I should be avoiding?

Thanks for the tips. Fingers crossed I'll be getting wet by the weekend.

Well then email someone like Djdojo who rides there. Maybe some experienced Melbourne crew can shed some light on the size. you must get less wind than over here in the west i wouldn't recommend a 12, for a beginner to start on. 12/13m for a large lad, but you are average weight for a bloke really.

Just looking at your choices the X ride would suffice. Its a good board that you will grow into.

All of those choice in kite would be fine. 4 or five lines, in the end you make it work. Some will vouch for 5 others will say stay away. 5 th line wrap in the surf is a reality and if you kite long enough a wrap can and will happen at some stage. The complete flag kill is a good advantage of a fifth. But ultimately all the safety gear in the years you are looking at are just fine.

Buy from a reputable retailer they have a vested interest in not selling you a dangerous kite.

Don't be out off a Naish park, its not a real C as you would define it from the old days. In the 12m vein it may be a good choice as it won't have as much power as the rebel or the SB.

But all three are a good choice, you won't no sht from clay for a while so it doesn't really matter. All three are very stable platforms. The rebel the highest aspect of all them, maybe that would be third on the list you have mentioned.

There are other options to like the smoke (Wainmans), catalyst (ozone), lithuim ( Airush), ride (Naish), XR (core) mate the list goes on and on. And yes the evo, bandit...on and on it goes. Don't be afraid of a bit of C...

Board wise their are other options to look at as well...heaps...Shinn and xenon my two favs, also crazy fly make a number of superb boards, but that's just me. Just make sure it has a bit of size and width so you can get up and planning.

I usually call a 10m as the 1 kite quiver size to buy they usually get you going 15-28 knots. which is the perfect wind speeds for kiting.
A 12 will get you out 13-23 ish. So you only gain 1 or 2 knots at the bottom end but loose a lot at the top.

As Eppo calls it. Talk to your locals about the average local winds. If most of the days are sub 20 then a 12m might be the go. If you get a lot of 20+ days then 10m is the go.

Take a look at Liquid force Envy's they are extremely beginner friendly & well made - there are a good few in the market place here too...

I am also debating selling mine as I've gone up to the NRG's.

Extremely happy with em :)

Cabriha Crossbow also good for learning .. Plenty of power and a bit slower turning (therefore more forgiving) than the switchblade .... Enjoy !!!

With the southern oscillation index sitting on neutral ( www.bom.gov.au/climate/enso/ ) i'd say we're in for an ok but not brilliant summer. 12m for 83kg will be a decent size to start with - add a 9m as you begin to prioritise kiting in your finances

All the shops in Melbourne are reputable - sure, some prefer one over another and not everyone gets on well all the time but believe me, to stay afloat as a business in a market as small as kiting and related boardsports you need to take decent care of your customers. Shop around and get to know your options.

Give some thought (do some research) to 5 line vs 4 line. I prefer the simplicity of 4 lines myself. (As a beginner you'll probably put your kite through its lines fairly often and a 5th can complicate recovery from this.) Either way be sure to learn the safety and self-rescue process for whichever setup you choose.

There ya go and I that is my position as well on four versus five lines.

dozens of kites to do the job, kitings never been as cheap, if you look hard you can get some brand new deals as cheap as second hand, cab vector 2012 for under a grand complete,also best kahoona v4, and best spark or liq force edge boards for $ 350 why buy second hand, as for 4 against 5 lines they have there pluses and minuses, imho and i fly a 4 line kite a 5 line safety is better when deployed , if your buying 2nd hand get someone (good kiter) to have a look and run on the kite as the are a fair few things thatll make a worn kite perform badly

I kite in Melbourne. During the summer session the best kite will be a 12 meter kite
for safety get a kite the flags off one line. The kites the flag off two lines you have to step forward for the kite to flip and depower (they have stopped making them for that reason and others)
a big wide board would help a lot
I own many kites (Liquid Force NRG, Ocean Rodeo, Naish, Cabrinha, peter Lynn, fly surfer, Epic, ). To "learn" to kite I think the Ride is a good choice. I think is stable, easy to fly, jump and relaunch (you will be crashing the kite a lot when learning to get on the board). My other comment is only use the universal control system from Naish, The Naish Shift is ok but the kite will relaunch better on the universal control system. Or get any other 4 line brand that flags off one line.
FYI:Many kiters don't like below the bar depower line because it is difficult to adjust while flying or on the beach.
if you buy from a kite shop you can always go back to them if there are any issues with the kite

Just buy something and do it
Most kites and boards are pretty freaking similar
One pulls you the other lets you steer
I find this obsession with gear very modern and a bit gay
People used to get dragged by rags and still had a good time
Buy something, do it
Basta

If you can get your hands on a Cab Switchblade then go for it. IMO one of the best kites to learn on. It will also last pretty well as you get more proficient. I would go something 2010+ as I think the change in bar design in 2010 means the de-power for a beginner is great on the Cabs and the safety features are also very good on the post 2010 kites. I have two Switchblades in my quiver and my 11m switch blade is one of my favourite kites. I am a 110kg and that kite when it hits 23 knots plus is a lot of fun.

Eppo..

Didn't call you a F wit.. Not sure where you got that from but anyways wasn't me...

Maybe look at the above again and direct your rage elsewhere. (or put a tampax in)

Olliefly seems like a straight up kind guy, flick him a message if you take offence..

Sticks and stones ect ect.. Don't you teach that in class these days??

Damn my most sincere apologies NoBs, so sorry man. Fck, I fcked up...yeh it didn't seem your style, you are normally far more clever with your insults...

I owe you a beer mate.

Have deleted my message.

As for Olliefly, read above.

I only drink Cosmo's

big boy no need to apologise. What are we 12 years old or women?

Nah I was out of line talking to you like that, I do need to apologise, but yeh agreed, move on.

Wtf is cosmos?

Oh boy.. Here let me buy you one of these!!!

www.esquire.com/food-drink/g865/drinks-for-women-071511/

12 m would be the best bet for Melbourne for your size. I'm about 10 kg heavier than you and it serves me well for most summer conditions. A typical Melbourne seabreeze is 18-20 knots. I don't know how Plummet gets out in 13 knots (maybe NZ wind has more mana or his puku isn't very big)

With respect to your boards a 141 isn't going to be on the huge size for you as you are tall. You will get plenty of use out of it and maybe after your first season you might keep it for the lighter days and get a 134-136. But a 139 will probably be all you ever need. For St Kilda I'd go for an all round free-ride board, as it's not super flat there, unless you ride the kiddy pool, and that won't be for a while as that is where the advanced guys play.

There are so many good kites out there these days - I'd go for a second hand well maintained one (you get plenty of guys who buy kit and then don't follow through, only to sell it later, often under duress because they need to make space, are leaving the country etc etc.). After a couple of seasons you will have your own riding style worked out and will then want to look for something that suits your needs.

The most important thing for a learner/newcomer is the commitment of time to the sport. You won't get any good at kitesurfing just by buying the kit and leaving it in the cupboard. This means, sacrificing your social life to get out whenever the wind comes in and accepting the fact some days are just going to be hard work. Ideally you want to be getting out at least 3 times a week during the summer, until it gets to be like riding a bike. A guy who buys 5 year old kit that is rough around the edges will still be better than the guy who buys the best and only goes out twice a month.

That is really good advice. Taught a few guys over the years and the ones that totally commit for a designated period of time get to a point or a threshold that means if they need be they can step back a bit, then when they get back to it they haven't lost anything. Those who play around with a session here and there go back to square one every time they go out. My younger brother committed, and is flying the other, well he has fked around and even a year in has got nowhere fast. Hopefully I will have time with him in exmouth this year to get his moving attention span focussed.

Commit completely to a time frame such that you are planning and keeping upwind. Then you have the basics down pat and locked in.

Also the best advice can only come from locals who ride in the same conditions as mentioned above.

Thanks for all the info guys. Much appreciated. You are clearly a passionate and uh... animated bunch ;)

So here is where I am at. I have discounted the Rebels at this stage and am now deciding between the following:

2012 12M Cabrinha Switchblade: Looking to be the best option I think as I spoke to someone who knows the kite and says it has been taken good care of. Concerns are that it may be too much power if it is my only kite. Don't want to spend too many days on the sidelines watching everyone else have fun with 9m kites. Private seller.

2012 12M Naish Torch: Only 6 months old and still crispy though I understand it is more of an adv kite an maybe not as easy to learn on? Not huge on the idea of the 5th line either. Private seller.

2012 North Evo: Apparently hasn't had much use and comes from a shop.

2011 12M Naish Park: Considerably cheaper than the other options. Perhaps this is not a bad choice since as someone pointed out I don't know **** from clay atm and might not make sense splashing out when I wont notice the difference. Does the response/performance decrease over time or is it just that you are more likely to have to repair it?

I appreciate all the other suggested brands but I want to be on the water this weekend so I am deciding between what is available now.

Thanks again for your help guys.

Torch no. Not for you at the moment.

The rest are all good options.

Better resale on 2012, 2011 getting a little long in the tooth now we are heading into 2014. Unless you know its history I'd stay away.

When you are learning you won't be or should not be in the winds a 9m would suffice at your weight. The SB will allow you to learn and get planning and eventually stay upwind in the winds you should be learning in. Also will be slower again at 12m which is what you want. The SB or the evo. Both are well built kites from a reputable brand and will give you the low end obvious grunt you need when leaning...and indeed can be utilised when you get better.

Others might have other ideas but that would be my call. The SB would have a better top end than the evo, the strong delta in that kite really narrows its top end. They are being totally redesigned this year and blended with some fuse DNA.

Point taken on the resale. The Park is from a shop so no idea on the history but apparently is in reasonable condition. I reckon I could talk it down to 600 whereas the others will be more like 800. Just wondering whether I am even going to notice the difference as a beginner then I can offload it next year and get something better. The extra cash could go into another lesson which would be beneficial. Point taken though.

What is meant by narrows the top end? Do you mean it has more power in the stronger winds or just performs better in general? Still picking up the lingo :)

At your weight i'd go the 12m switchblade as you will have plenty of power to get out in the lighter winds and then maybe add a smaller, say 9m kite later. (I have no experience with the Evo,s)

From memory the 2011 12m Park was a bit of a dud, not much low end (I had the 10m 2011 Park).

Good luck

I think topple over is probably right and yes park 2011 did have a weaker low end...go the SB. 200 bucks is not considerably cheaper for a kite that's a year older.

the sb is the best kite from your list

The Switchie will give you the best wind range for your weight as a beginner. You don't want to be out in anything 25 knots plus until you have at least 100 hours on the water and at your weight a 12m SB should give you a good range from 17 - 25 knots. Fully trimmed out you could probably hold it up to about 25 once you get your edging sorted out.

If you want to extend the range a bit you can always play around with your board length and width.

Besides the west aussies always bagging Cabs :) they are a great kite and IMO learning on the Switchblade made it easier and progressing easier due to how well it sits in the window.

Thanks guys. The SB is definitely sounding like the winner.

So the setup is looking to be the 12M 2012 Cab SB with 138*43 2013 CrazyFly AllAround board (used in perfect condition)

Together that will set me back around $1300. Does that sound like a decent deal?

Yep good price and good board selection. Will be your light windish board after you have learnt to ride. Add a 9 or 10 later down the track and ya set for a while.

FYI - a kite like the evo with strong delta DNA (Look up delta) while is fast to turn, obvious grunt and direct, great relaunch and stability loses its top end potential. The obvious grunt becomes a handful. Do some research on older posts on different wing types. But some crew like what a delta strong kite has to offer and will just change down when need be.

Great. Thanks everyone for the input.