I posted this interesting thought in someone else's thread but didn't want to take it off topic, so i created its own one...

so at what point in kiting does your age override your learning curve/skill level.

assume you get better every year you kite: learn new tricks, new transitions and better all-round skills.
but also your getting older. dodgy knees, arthritis, amnesia, coordination and balance deteriorate.

i wonder what age this usually occurs.
and is the "I'm getting too old for this..." a valid argument...
yeah you are, but you're also gaining more experience.

its an interesting thought...
lol.

I'm not sure your argument is particularly valid.

"so what is the point in kiting when your age overrides your learning curve/skill level."

You could apply this argument to any aspect of life. I know many karate participants who have been practicing for over 30 years. They are well past their prime in speed, technique and power but their knowledge base is immense. They still enjoy what they do and have no pretence about their abilities.

Sometime, physical disabilities limit performance but you adapt. As long as you still enjoy what you do I see no reason to stop.

Age can not be measured in years only in perception. If you believe you are too old, you will certainly act that way.

Ah yes it usually occurrs at ah er umm - yes thats right... white with 1 sugar

Your question is best answered by the following wisdom

An old bull & a young bull on a hill overlooking a herd of cows...

The young bull says " Lets charge down there and Shag one of them cows"

The Old bull says " Lets Walk down there and Shag'em all !!!


In understanding ones own limitations at any age... ability or disability - you find a useable compromise - that can lead to a happy ending

Maybe someone would like to post a Prosthetic kiter vid for Youngboyo

Sorry, the wording was poor and not quite what I was getting at.
I have edited my original thought/statement...

so at what point in kiting does your age override your learning curve/skill level.

My alzheimer's means every day is my best.

I hear what your saying. I guess it comes down to how keen you are to keep pushing yourself and when injuries get in the way.

Kelly slater is in his 40s and doing damn well in a similar physical sport. A mate of mine blew a disc at 31 and had to stop all together. Another mate is 34 and has a bad shoulder and stopped looping and handle passing.

I'm 30 and have never had any injuries so I practice new tricks each session and cop a flogging each time. I reckon when you have kids the risk of injury would cause you to slow down a fair bit too.

Ask wavelsave..

He's old and crusty.. He's the Susan Boyle of Kiting

Over 14 and your screwed:


Skip to 3:50

It's not age vs skill, it's age vs motivation. Old guys can do tricks, we just can't be bothered doing the tricks you do.

I think you just work out what you want to do and what to spend your time on to get the most fun.

Once you've done a million kite loops and back rolls and crail-indy-stalefish combinations it all becomes a bit pointless.

Doing a downloop transition with a perfect down loop gets you around with power and sets you up for the run out. It has a point.

Doing a carving toeside transition with a perfect foot swap is a pure joy and lets you take advantage of smaller and cleaner waves.

Jamming 2-3km upwind gives access to empty reef and beach breaks, and helps if you want to hit the same peak again and again. Somebody spent 6 hours at Pt Danger last weekend. The weekend before I rode up to Bells and back and had all the waves between to myself.

I suspect this is why some old guys have moved full time onto directional boards.

My current "trick" I want to master is the short board and raceboard tacks. I am finding it way harder than kite loops or back rolls.

I do envy Keahi his skill doing unstrapped free-style and Ollie Bridge being so good so young. But the thing is, they had expert coaching from the beginning and could do it from the time they were/are kids. Just because you're young doesn't mean you can do any of the things those guys do.

As for physical fitness, old guys generally have far more stamina than the average young guy. You might be able to take a harder pounding. But, if you get pounded hard enough, young enough, you'll be stuffed for life. An older guy can pace himself and avoid injury and carry all the minor annoyances that old age brings.

Ill add to Live to fly's comment - I saw a Shane Dorian interview at Pipe the other day, and he is saying that he's the fittest he has ever been!

Sure it takes dedication and self control, but the dude is 40 (like Slater) and is paddling into Jaws and stuff!

PS Those Bridge kids from the video above are amazing! Look out Youri!

Like our sex lives, we get better with age, But just a little slower.... I think our ladies like it that way.

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surfingboye said...
Sorry, the wording was poor and not quite what I was getting at.
I have edited my original thought/statement...

so at what point in kiting does your age override your learning curve/skill level.

it doesnt....as you get older your learning what needs to be done to enable you to do it for longer.....ie only performing manouvres that you know your skill level will let you do safely....not biting off more than you can chew...which means less and less dangerous manouvres as you age, untill you are basically just flying the kite and getting pulled into gybes...which...at the end will still feel pretty damn good ...so as long as the body does not listen to those undoable promises that the mind keeps giving you...you should just fade out.....thats my plan anyway....as long as you feel your going as hard as the body will allow which will obviously mean compromises as you get older...I think you will still come home with that worn out glow into the golden years.

revamp by learning to do everything switch, give up your regular stance completely

The thing to remember about getting older is that all your exploits from your younger days just keep getting better and better.

The six foot waves you rode become eight foot barrels, your jumps become twenty foot higher and every girl I ever dated was a model...

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Smithy said... and every girl I ever dated was a model...

Must admit, some I'd rather forget.

I guess the older you get the lower then level of risk you are prepaired to take.

This is due to a number of factors. The main one. children. I found as soon as i had chidlren I no longer could do things with scant regard to my safety. Sure I still did silly things but I chose to forfet the silliest stuff as I needed to be at work on monday to earn a living and provide for the kids.

The next thing is I am no longer as rubbery as i once was. So impacts, crashes etc take alot longer to repair. I have lernt that i don't want to spend 8 weeks in a cast and not kite. therefore i limit bone breaking stunts so I can kite another day.

Also due to family constraints I can't emmerse myself into my chosen sports as much as I once did. Therefore i am less practiced and not as good as what i would have been when i could spend all day doing that activity.

No fear = exuberence unchecked by experience!

Hmmmm, so Plummet I enjoyed reading your link to a 24 hour land kite effort. You mentioned land kiting in the dark in 35 knots, 8 meter kite, could not see where you were going.

What on earth were you doing BEFORE you had kids ? Haha

I'm off heli skiing in canada with some mates next march... Any chance of arguing I am safer now I have kids carry zero credibility with the better half!

But I agree with you, my mindset is more cautious, better preparation and awareness of risks. I still do all the exciting stuff, but in a more thought through way compared to in my 20's.

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Plummet said...
I guess the older you get the lower then level of risk you are prepaired to take.

This is due to a number of factors. The main one. children. I found as soon as i had chidlren I no longer could do things with scant regard to my safety. Sure I still did silly things but I chose to forfet the silliest stuff as I needed to be at work on monday to earn a living and provide for the kids.

The next thing is I am no longer as rubbery as i once was. So impacts, crashes etc take alot longer to repair. I have lernt that i don't want to spend 8 weeks in a cast and not kite. therefore i limit bone breaking stunts so I can kite another day.

Also due to family constraints I can't emmerse myself into my chosen sports as much as I once did. Therefore i am less practiced and not as good as what i would have been when i could spend all day doing that activity.

No fear = exuberence unchecked by experience!

That's why front line troops on a battle field are all young. Risk and youth go hand in hand.

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RPM said...
Ask wavelsave..

He's old and crusty.. He's the Susan Boyle of Kiting

You spelt my user name wrong, dumbfuc. ^^^

Being old and crusty is way better than the alternative ... DEATH.

lol.

Let's be brutally honest here ...

Kitesurfing is freakin lawnbowls-at-the-beach.

And RPM always looks properly attired in his white steamer wetsuit.

Hah always liked slaves assertion that wave kiting is an occupation for clapped out old surfers

or some such

Pretty much sums it up for me, but hey - I like it

Not that I have a white steamer wetsuit but if I did I'm sure you daughter would want a slice of the action

Eppo says she's easy on the eye!

Hey steady on rpm ya nutter. Crossed a line there buddy, just pull it back a notch fella. Before I unleash hell on your puny mind. Lol.

I'm in my 50's and still feel as fit as I have ever been, partly due to the fact that I now have time to run, ride, go to the gym, surf, kite etc.
When I was in my 20's and 30's it was all about the family, mortgage, work etc, at the end of the day I just wanted to sit down and have a few drinks etc.
Now days the kids are grown up, wife has left me (damn what a shame ) I have way more me time and live a much healthier lifestyle.

I fractured my fibula a couple of years back when a kiteloop landing went a little totally pear shaped so I don't do much of that sort of thing anymore and ride a surfboard strapless 99% of the time but still enjoy learning new stuff i.e. riding waves switch, tack turns, attempting strapless backrolls etc.

I competed in a 20k SUP downwinder on the weekend, Dawesville cut to Singleton (Eppo, Waveslave you might have seen us go past there was a few kiters out) the guy that won the over 50's division went very close to winning it outright, he came in 3rd overall and in front of all the O40's and all but 2 of the open guys.

I can see that somewhere down the track I will start getting a few more aches and pains but so far I am amazed at how well I feel after marathon sessions, but as others have said you just don't take the risks that some of the younger guys take.

I hope to be still improving some aspects of my kiting when Im in my 60's and 70's but by the time I am in my 80's I might have to try something a bit less physically demanding like base jumping or something.

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Dave Whettingsteel said...
Hmmmm, so Plummet I enjoyed reading your link to a 24 hour land kite effort. You mentioned land kiting in the dark in 35 knots, 8 meter kite, could not see where you were going.

What on earth were you doing BEFORE you had kids ? Haha

I'm off heli skiing in canada with some mates next march... Any chance of arguing I am safer now I have kids carry zero credibility with the better half!

But I agree with you, my mindset is more cautious, better preparation and awareness of risks. I still do all the exciting stuff, but in a more thought through way compared to in my 20's.

hehehe... yes that was very silly. the answer is I raced DH mountainbikes nationally. 3rd in my age devision is the best I got. Now that sport is dangerous as hell compared to kiting. And the reason I started kiting. I knew I couldn't carry on my crazy DH ways when kids came along so i looked for something with just as much thrill with less risk.

^^ I lost more blood in one morning's downhill on North Shore (Vancouver) than I have in 9 years of kitesurfing.

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surfingboye said...
...
[i]so at what point in kiting does your age override your learning curve/skill level.
...

I think this happens at some stage in 30ies.

Very interesting thought boye. I've been actually contemplating this for a little while my self. For example, your agility goes down with age, the injury/recovery times take longer, hence your learning curve is slowed down (at best)...

I mean lot of people here are essentially talking about simplifying things and doing less risky stuff, and simpler tricks etc... but how much personal satisfaction do you get in the long run without truly pushing the boundaries and seeing the results?

Whether "i'm getting too old for this..." is a valid argument depends on ones personality/drive/motivaton/aspirations/willingness to take risks/physical condition.

But ultimately, age is a significant factor (sadly).

I don't see what less risky has to do with it. Kite loops used to be hard to learn but once you know how to do them they are easy, especially with modern gear. I still do several in each session because it's just part of normal kite control.

Most tricks are fairly benign unless you do them in the wrong place near something hard that will hurt you.

I'll still throw in a huge boost in strong winds and finish off with a down loop. I still ride in 30-40 knot winds and will have a go at any size wave that comes my way.

When a 40+ knot gust comes in I will use my experience to ride away from danger and stay safe until the gust passes. I do admit I won't jump during an extreme gust because the risk of injury and fatality, but I don't see any young riders doing that either (except Ruben Lenten and pros don't count).

I won't bother with a handle pass. Not because of the risk of a shoulder dislocation, but because it doesn't do anything for me. It's probably too hard to learn and it doesn't really give me any tangible benefit (unlike tacking or riding the board backwards or riding toe side on both side or swapping feet etc etc)

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superlizard said...
... but how much personal satisfaction do you get in the long run without truly pushing the boundaries and seeing the results? ...

That is a pretty strange concept. I don't do anything to push boundaries. I do it because it is fun and I really enjoy doing it. In the process I get 2-3 hours of vigorous exercise every day. I don't need or want to push boundaries. I ride and have fun and the boundaries take care of themselves. Even a mundane session is enjoyable and every 3-4 sessions something happens that makes me go "Wow!"

Just by doing this we've taken the boundary that other people try to impose and given it a big kick in the nuts!

There's all these fat guys walking around golf courses or riding their $6000 bikes in lycra, or young kids on skateboard trying and failing to do kick flips and ollies.

We're blasting around the ocean, leaping off waves, carving great plumes of spray, checking out dolphins.

age = state of mind

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RPM said...
Not that I have a white steamer wetsuit but if I did I'm sure you daughter would want a slice of the action

Eppo says she's easy on the eye!

Are you thinking of switching teams?
You are gay right?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you always seem to have that insecure aggressive thing going on.

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Gorgo said...
I won't bother with a handle pass. Not because of the risk of a shoulder dislocation, but because it doesn't do anything for me. It's probably too hard to learn and it doesn't really give me any tangible benefit (unlike tacking or riding the board backwards or riding toe side on both side or swapping feet etc etc)

too hard to learn? Why? Could it be related to age?

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Gorgo said...

superlizard said...
... but how much personal satisfaction do you get in the long run without truly pushing the boundaries and seeing the results? ...

That is a pretty strange concept. I don't do anything to push boundaries. I do it because it is fun and I really enjoy doing it.

Strange concept? I don't follow you. Most sportsmen who achieved a lot would have had to push boundaries on various levels - their personal mental boundaries, fitness level boundaries, endurance, continuous improvement etc... you are bound by your current state... if you have high aspirations you will strive to achieve more.

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Gorgo said...
In the process I get 2-3 hours of vigorous exercise every day.

Getting exercise out of kiting is just a bonus benefit, but certainly not a driving factor to take up kitesurfing. Kitesurfing is about awesome adrenaline activity that pushes the boundaries (gravity for one). So playing the exercise card when it comes to kitesurfing is a little superfluous IMO. if it's about exercise why would you spend thousands on expensive gear, drive far, have to setup/packup etc, when you can just jog in the park.


I don't disagree with other things you said though.

The original question has two basic premises:

Doing tricks is the measure of skill. It is one measure of skill but not the only one. Upwind performance and speed, safety, competence and general quality of execution are perfectly valid ways to express skill.

Young guys can do tricks Some young guys can do tricks. Most can't do any of the tricks that are held up as examples of skill.

The concept of people doing stuff to push their limits is false. Hardly anybody does anything fun to push their limits. To try and impose that restriction on people is to discourage people from doing anything. Who would take up any sport if you had to go out and push your limits every time you do it? Do you really imagine every young person in the world is sitting at home just frothing to get back to the beach and push their limits?

Kiteboarding is inherently fun to do and there is more than enough to do and to learn to keep enjoying it without spending time on a set of arbitrary tricks. Progression comes naturally from the simple doing of the sport.