This is a call for feedback on a proposal (not by me) for a 5 day competition/event/jam to be held at Woodmans Point Reserve over the 2009 Australia Day Weekend.

Information about the event is limited but is to be an obstacle based freeride event similar to the slider and kicker jam of last year but much bigger featuring many international riders (Andre Philip (DR), Ruben Lenten (HOL), Aaron Hadlow (UK) and many other pro riders). The event will be along the lines of the Redbull Kitepunks and Real kiteboarding tripleS Invitational.

The event is not WAKSA organised but looks to have the support of the WAKSA committee. The events organizer is Toby Bromwich (UK) of core online magazine.

The event has been known to WAKSA for some time. I believe it is important for the event to be known by the wider kitesurfing community before it is too late for public concerns to be addressed.

I have my own personal feelings which i will put forward in a subsequent post.

Do it! Bindings only though!

I will be honest. I am not fully behind the competion for a number of reasons that I will state below.

The event will attract world wide attention exposing WA and specificaly Woodmans point as the fantastic kitesurfing location it is. The event has the potential to significantly increase the number of kiteing tourists arriving on our shores. If this occured it would obviously lead to increased numbers of kiters out on the water. Kiting tourists have also been notoriously bad for relations between kiters and the wider public (however waksa is addressing this i believe). Yes, woodies isnt a secret but it has never been thrust in to the spot light like this competition is threatening to.

It is great seeing other people on the water having fun. However the consistent drive to promote the sport will hurt all kitesurfers in the long run. I know that no one has 'ownership' of a location but i believe defending access for a few is better then no access for everyone.

I believe the governing bodys of kiting in Australia need to redirect their focus from promoting kitesurfing (to increase memberships?) to demoting kitesurfing to cull the growth and mantain control, location access and PR of the sport. (This is a seperate issue i wont go further into it here, i am getting sidetracked)

The area of woodmans point is a CALM nature reserve. There are several limitations placed on the area such as zero dog access as a means to protect the wildlife on the reserve. Recently CALM have installed the first bin at woodmans point a plastic bag collector. Apart from this there are no bins or disposal facitliy at woodies as well as no toilets. I am concerned that the organisers might underestimate the possible influx of riders and spectators and therefor calm underestimating the impact of the event. While i do have concernes for the environment i am more concerned about the possiblity that we trash the joint and calm have some negative reaction torwards kitesurfing at woodies.

My final concern is the commercial nature of the event. Similar to last year the event will be a 'Core Magazine' event. It will be used to promote the Core Magazine (to attract readers) and for magazine content. I think it is a good idea of Tobys and have nothing against him trying to make a buck. However in a nature reserve and at the possible expense of West Australian kiters it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.


Now, I do see the positives of the event and for sure if it wasnt in my backyard i would 200% support it.

It would be awesome to watch some of the finest kitesurfers in the world go about their business. It would also be great to get exposure to some of our local talent and personally i would love to enter it and session hard with the locals and internationals. However I think we must also look at the potential problems of such an event especially at a critical time of the sport in Australia.

I may just be over reacting. Give me some fair arguements to convince me.

Carbine a notorious tourist hater, kook hater and anyone who gets in his way hater. Rode in the previous season less than I would say 90% of the locals, and I think most people would agree apart from a few riders that Woodies in the previous year was better crowd and behaviour wise than in years before. Carbine has in fact taught lessons at Woodies for his own personal gain and is just using whatever leverage he can get to make his arguement.

The organisers last year went through all the appropriate authorities (CALM and WAKSA) before holding the event. Probably spending around 750$ plus on building materials and permits and I would estimate about 80 hours plus putting it all together and getting in down and back. The feedback from CALM was really good, they rang the next day to congratulate him on holding a very professional event and leaving the beach spotless clean.

Now the event is already in the pipes awaiting approval and once again the organisers are going through the appropriate channels (CALM, DPI and WAKSA) to get the go ahead. Going through this process will include thing like hire toilets etc. if necessary.

Ironically it is Carbine bringing Woodies to the attention of the entire seabreeze community again telling them how "fantastic" a location it is. Also threatning to complain to CALM to get the event cancelled. Why bring negative attention to your own sport at your own spot, are you begging for a ban.

Fact of the matter is that Woodies is a metropolitan beach in a capital city of almost 2 million people. It is hardly a secret. You can never protect it from the ammount of people coming to ride. You can however act on the issue of riders not showing much respect to the rules of how the place runs.

Having talked online about the issue with Carbine I offered him Toby's email address to bring it up with him as Toby was online. Carbine refused to talk to Toby about his concerns and try and reach a comprimise, instead opting to bring it up on a public forum.

So I will let you guys decide, does it really sound like Carbine is interested in resolution of his percieved issue, or is he more interested in the conflict?

Spacemonkey! said...

Carbine a notorious tourist hater, kook hater and anyone who gets in his way hater. Rode in the previous season less than I would say 90% of the locals, and I think most people would agree apart from a few riders that Woodies in the previous year was better crowd and behaviour wise than in years before. Carbine has in fact taught lessons at Woodies for his own personal gain and is just using whatever leverage he can get to make his arguement.

Soon to be local hater to if you keep it up :. I do on occasion (regularly in season) get annoyed with ignorant kiters. It does become frustrating after a little while having to constantly deal with people who don't really know what they are doing or do and are just plain rude and selfish (mike the knife). I have never been angry towards a kiter who has done nothing wrong. Yes, i will inform people of the correct procedures at woodies, if they dont change i will let them know however. I had a major shoulder injury early in the season and am still recovering from it, do you think i wanted that?

I do agree woodies was pretty good last season, thats not to say we shouldn't try to keep it that way.

and yes i am an iko instructor i have taught one lesson at woodies, on the onshore side where lessons are taught nearly every windy day of the season. I no longer instruct however.

Now can we take the personal stuff out of it.

The organisers last year went through all the appropriate authorities (CALM and WAKSA) before holding the event. Probably spending around 750$ plus on building materials and permits and I would estimate about 80 hours plus putting it all together and getting in down and back. The feedback from CALM was really good, they rang the next day to congratulate him on holding a very professional event and leaving the beach spotless clean.

Yep it was well handled last year. Im not questioning the effort put in. It was a top job by all involved.

Now the event is already in the pipes awaiting approval and once again the organisers are going through the appropriate channels (CALM, DPI and WAKSA) to get the go ahead. Going through this process will include thing like hire toilets etc. if necessary.

Thats good to see, you have addressed some of my concerns. Has CALM been informed accurately of the scale of the competition? Considering its 5 times longer and is hosting the 3 biggest names in kitesurfing (plus more).

Ironically it is Carbine bringing Woodies to the attention of the entire seabreeze community again telling them how "fantastic" a location it is. Also threatning to complain to CALM to get the event cancelled. Why bring negative attention to your own sport at your own spot, are you begging for a ban.

I think most on seabreeze know how good woodies is. I'm not bringing negative attention. I'm proactively going out to prevent the possiblity of negative attention in the future.

Fact of the matter is that Woodies is a metropolitan beach in a capital city of almost 2 million people. It is hardly a secret. You can never protect it from the ammount of people coming to ride. You can however act on the issue of riders not showing much respect to the rules of how the place runs.

With the above in minde and as one of the few locations for kiting (and one of the best at that), we must be very careful what we do with it. This is the reason for my concern

Having talked online about the issue with Carbine I offered him Toby's email address to bring it up with him as Toby was online. Carbine refused to talk to Toby about his concerns and try and reach a comprimise, instead opting to bring it up on a public forum.

I have sought toby's opinion. It is a public matter why should it not be in the public. Transparency is good!

So I will let you guys decide, does it really sound like Carbine is interested in resolution of his percieved issue, or is he more interested in the conflict?

I have tried to put my concerns forward honestly and fairly. Conflict is not what i am looking for (the same can not be said for your first paragraph, a personal attack on me). Yes i have in the past posted to cause conflict on the forum, i have had a large absense from the forum of late. Some (alot) of stuff i have previously said i probably shoudln't have and some (alot) of it was just to produce a reaction. This is not the case with this post and not with my future.

Im writing because i have honest concerns.

carbine said...
I believe the governing bodys of kiting in Australia need to redirect their focus from promoting kitesurfing (to increase memberships?) to demoting kitesurfing to cull the growth and mantain control, location access and PR of the sport.

Talk about seeing the "Glass Half Empty". Lets all go and live in caves with a cloud over our heads

must be a slow night, getting way off topic. If there is one beach that would be the most suitable for kiting in perth it would be woodies,

no people
no other users
miles from anywhere
apart from kiting, why would you walk all the way over to the north beach?

carbine said...

if it wasnt in my backyard i would 200% support it.

I think this pretty much sums it up.

I do here your concerns Carbine however I do think some of them are worst case scenario. With regards the holding the Event over a five day period with rock star kiters, media and rent a crowd. I think Perth deserves an event of such gravity as I and so many others had an absolute blast at last years Slider Jam. (Cheers guys)

The negative takeaways from last years event for me where the lack of structure on the water in the first few hours which led to overcrowding on the obstacles, tight riding area and a generally stressful experience.

Perhaps it would be better to send people out in slots just like the Safety Bay Jam which reduces traffic, lessens the pressure and give you more space to get loose.

Finally what would really piss me off is that Woodies where to become the reserve of the Pros and friends during the five days. I would hope that it would be mostly open to all those wishing to take part (Except for any competition format of course).

Cheers

jammin said...

Hey Carbine,

appreciate your concerns, but not sure that its your place to reveal this scoop just yet.

There's planning and money behind these things that organisers put in months in advance, they release the details when the time is right, usually when all the details are worked out, formalities, permits and insurances etc, to prevent reactionary responses, and to provide a big news release. The surprise is dead now..

I think we should let the organisers do their thing in peace, they did an amazing job last year to put on the best kiteboarding event that I have ever seen.

When they release the format and details, then let the fun police get in and have their say...

There are correct and proper ways of organising events such as this. Keeping things under wraps and behind closed doors is definitely not how it should be done, especially not with such an important (for kiting in perth) bit of land (and what about other woodies users? fishermen, swimmers etc). Yes its good for the organisers and probably good for publicity but at the danger of pissing people off.

Ignoring peoples concerns for publicity impact is just not right.

Make it open, honest, transparent and fair. Is that not reasonable?

Damo said...

i still cant see what your problem with the kicker jam is carbine????
you talk about rubbish disposal and dogs on the beach why don't you just have the balls to come out and say you don't want anyone ells kiting at your beach!??
All of the other things that you have listed are totally unfounded. Last year there where no problems with any of the things that you have listed in fact CALM called Toby the day after the event and congratulated him on running such a great event. They actually went down there the next morning and had a look around and what do ya know no rubbish and no dead wildlife from dog attacks if CALM are happy with the low impact of the event on the reserve then once again i don't see what your problem is???

Just how many people do you think are going to come to this event??? You make it sound like just because a few big names are coming over for it there are going to be 1000s of other kiters coming too. Ok it is going to be a bit bigger than last years event but not nearly as big as you seem to think.

remember dave it was you only a few seasons ago that it was you being that noob kiteing like a twat at woodys and cutting people off and pissing the locals off!! i know you where only kiting like that because you didn't know any better and you did pull your head in quickly but you are still a relative noob down there and i don't think that you have earnt the right to call yourself a local there yet but that is a whole different discussion. Now you are trying to stop an event that all of the real locals are really looking forward to because you seem to be scared that more people are going to start kiting at woodys and you might actually have to share the beach.

I have found with most of the problem kiters if you just take the time to talk to them and explain how to kite at woodys and how to avoid cutting people off then they quickly pull their heads in and then they can actually be allot of fun to kite with.

I am not trying to have a go at you i am just trying to understand why you are trying to stir **** for toby and the kicker jam

i think you should just lighten up, accept the fact that kiteboarding is going to continue to grow no matter what you do and if you are concerned about over crowding and beach restrictions then you should focus your efforts on educating kiters on how to prevent these sorts of problems instead of being the tourist hating beach nazi

my problem is that i think the comp may negatively effect kiting in the future at woodies.

that is my problem with slider jam.

I may be(and probably am) overestimating the size of this thing but atleast i am showing some concern

there is no point just blindly doing stuff without standing back and looking at the possible ramifications. The problem with kiting and things related to kiting is that we are all so stoked on it we get super amped and become overly focused on it and think anything kiteing is good!

You couple this with doing everything secretively and you could end up with a possible ****ball.

Now if Waksa had come out and publicly said "We are going to hold and event, some of the best kiters in the world are comming......blah blah, lets do this thing, who wants to help, what do we need to do, what problems might we face, is this comp good for our members etc etc"

i think that would be great.

I'm not going to lose sleep over this. If no one else shares my concerns then the comp should go ahead smoothly. If that is the case i will suport it and am happy to lend a hand and help out where needed (like last year i did help setup (when you were out riding damo))


btw apart from Dan, Simon, Lance and You, who are the real locals. :

Sounds like he is having a bi%ch for the sake of it. Rest assured carbine that because there was no "negative impact" from the last one there won't be any for this one.

It's pretty silly asking WAKSA to comment on an event that they are not organising and have basicaly minimal control over when it obviously has not been finalised by the event organisor. ( Otherwise they would have released the details themselves. )

I say "hats off" to any private individual or shop who deliberatly go out of their way and put their time and effort into creating these events. Rather than take the piss, you should be out there supporting the event or in the future there won't be any....

"private" events are the future of the sport like it or not.
Just take a look at surfing & wakeboarding. we will never be as big or sucessful, but if we are to have any resembalance of competition that's where we will and up as ASKA and the state groups are non profit, volunteer run and will never be able to "grow" enough to cater for a specific a cause as the comp scene requires.

Yep, considering Woodies is listed on the WAKSA websiter and on kitebeaches I hardly think its classified information. In its favour though, its not the easiest place to get to without a car so that would work in its favour.

LOL

You guys, seriously, you are classic.

Tell you what, bugg3r WA, bring the event to Victoria.

LOL

What say we limit the number of kitesurfers to a specific spot. We could form small niche clubs, force people to pay a joining fee. They would then have to be approved by a elected group of officials. Now they can pay a 5 day kite member ship fee. After a couple of years they can qualify to kite 7 days a week. Even better if they are woman we won't give them full membership rights and classify them as associates.

Anything that promotes our sport in a positive light is great.

Don't dwell on the negative. Excentuate the positive ......

Hi Team. ^^
WAKSA, that's a great mission statement you've got there......
"To promote Yourself".
I like it.
lol.
Such a selfless cause.....not.
*The membership drive onwardly marches on.
WAKSA, if you want to pimp for members....
you need to offer something, anything.
You need a gimmick.
Like maybe some kind of encouragement scheme.
How about a free t-shirt every year showing length of membership and kiter ranking ?
1st year member : Newbie
2nd year member : Greenhorn
3rd year member : Kook
4th year member : Gumby
5th year member : Rookie
6th year member : Ripper
7th year member : Local
What do you think ?

Apparently private comps like Kitejam need WAKSA....
because WAKSA knows how to fill out all the necessary forms.
WAKSA knows what boxes to tick.
You see, if WAKSA doesn't get involved with successful comps like Kitejam....
there's a big chance that WAKSA will become irrelevant, as well as being impotent.
ok, WAKSA has korporate KITESTOCK.
Pay your money to demo kites.....
then go have a crayfish lunch.
Nice.