Lack of breeze has had me thinking ( plus 6 guiness )
How abut 3 line kites, why wouldn't it work?
Can it work? Advantages, disadvantages?
Real quick scetch to put you on my wavelength
( without the guiness)

[;

)]

That's 11 lines.

was that really a quick sketch? It would take me ages to knock up something so semetricle haha, I like the idea I guess the bridle would have to be allot more complex than a standard 4 line kite

He posted a Da Vinci drawing of a balloon and rotated it 90deg and claimed it as his own work.

Geez, that's how I got a degree in helicopters.

(ONYX - fail, it would be 9 )

The only problem would be flagging, you'd be flagging to the front of the kite rather than one front line. So if you had reasonable bar pressure, then when you flag after a couple of loops the kite wouldn't fully depower.

So not as safe as a 4 line system.


That's my take on it anyway.

Huge amount of load on that one centre line there Cauncy. I think you would find the breaking strain would have to be beefed up considerably that could result in a thicker line that would create more drag and negating its viability. I can recall there was supposed to be some sort of super strength Kevlar lines that were being developed back some time ago that could be a fraction of the diameter as opposed to breaking strains of current ropes and lines but I am unsure if this has become a reality. Cost would more than likely be prohibitive and cutting a super breaking strain strength line could be an issue if the barstard was wrapped around oneself while getting smashed by a 6 footer. Onya for trying to think outside the accepted norm and downing a few Irish Brewskis at the same time to help impart your wisdom on us

bar pressure would be insane on your design

Ozone manta open cell snow kites had 3 lines with a very high Y splitter close to the kite back in 2010ish.
It worked ok.

I think inflatables start to get pulled in if the Y is too high.

Give it a go, rig up a bridle from your two attachment points you have and see what happens wouldn't bar pressure be the same as that line goes to chicken loop unhooking might be a problem but I say test your theory

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cauncy said..
Lack of breeze has had me thinking ( plus 6 guiness )
How abut 3 line kites, why wouldn't it work?
Can it work? Advantages, disadvantages?
Real quick scetch to put you on my wavelength
( without the guiness)

[;

)]

Looks like a 4 string kite with the attachment point for the forward lines nearer the kite. This would have the effect of collapsing the canopy inwards.

To help get you brain around it. Just imagine you made up a bridle like your centre line for towing 5 water skiers, Do you think the skiers on the outside lines could hold their positions or would they get pulled to the centre. This is the type of forces the leading edge of your kite would have to contend with.

This is why they have 4 strings, to reduce the angles and these forces are then applied to your bar and not the kite.


sober, sorry.

Beer gogggles
Won't work like that no way. See poster above^^^

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Crusoe said...

cauncy said..
Lack of breeze has had me thinking ( plus 6 guiness )
How abut 3 line kites, why wouldn't it work?
Can it work? Advantages, disadvantages?
Real quick scetch to put you on my wavelength
( without the guiness)

[;

)]

Looks like a 4 string kite with the attachment point for the forward lines nearer the kite. This would have the effect of collapsing the canopy inwards.

To help get you brain around it. Just imagine you made up a bridle like your centre line for towing 5 water skiers, Do you think the skiers on the outside lines could hold their positions or would they get pulled to the centre. This is the type of forces the leading edge of your kite would have to contend with.

This is why they have 4 strings, to reduce the angles and these forces are then applied to your bar and not the kite.


sober, sorry.

It was only a quick scetch to put across an idea
Someone with kite design would certainly know how to design a bridle that would distribute the load throughout the le

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..

Crusoe said...

cauncy said..
Lack of breeze has had me thinking ( plus 6 guiness )
How abut 3 line kites, why wouldn't it work?
Can it work? Advantages, disadvantages?
Real quick scetch to put you on my wavelength
( without the guiness)

[;

)]

Looks like a 4 string kite with the attachment point for the forward lines nearer the kite. This would have the effect of collapsing the canopy inwards.

To help get you brain around it. Just imagine you made up a bridle like your centre line for towing 5 water skiers, Do you think the skiers on the outside lines could hold their positions or would they get pulled to the centre. This is the type of forces the leading edge of your kite would have to contend with.

This is why they have 4 strings, to reduce the angles and these forces are then applied to your bar and not the kite.


sober, sorry.

It was only a quick scetch to put across an idea
Someone with kite design would certainly know how to design a bridle that would distribute the load throughout the le

You're right cauncy, ideas like this get the brain ticking and can lead to new innovations/designs. Maybe even inserting a sail batten along the leading edge/attachment points may give it enough strength to handle a bridle as you've designed. (hate to get kloncked own the head with it though). The batten could be like a bow (bow & arrow) that has a reverse bend in it before fitting. I think we use to call them bow kite when they first appeared in the scene.

Keep the beer flowing and ideas coming. Love it

Nice one Cauncy,

I have tried that couple years back and here are the issues I found.

We tried on 9m Delta shape which is a fast turning kite from factory settings.
We removed the factory setting, put new attachment points and install a similar fixed bridle to one centre line.

The first issue we had was really slow turns, when I say really slow, it was super slow. The bridle gave a lot of support to the kite but also locked completely the Leading Edge not allowing any twist.
The second issue we had was safety, the flag out on a unique centre line didnt work and the kite stayed powered. We had to put another line for safety.

Then we tried on a smaller 3m kite. That was better but still nowhere close to the factory setting.

I am not saying it coulnd work, but it might need more changes in the canopy, shape, bridle system, maybe including pulleys to allow the tow point to move from left to right ...

Good luck for your winter research!!!

Ben

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Crusoe said...

cauncy said..

Crusoe said...

cauncy said..
Lack of breeze has had me thinking ( plus 6 guiness )
How abut 3 line kites, why wouldn't it work?
Can it work? Advantages, disadvantages?
Real quick scetch to put you on my wavelength
( without the guiness)

[;

)]

Looks like a 4 string kite with the attachment point for the forward lines nearer the kite. This would have the effect of collapsing the canopy inwards.

To help get you brain around it. Just imagine you made up a bridle like your centre line for towing 5 water skiers, Do you think the skiers on the outside lines could hold their positions or would they get pulled to the centre. This is the type of forces the leading edge of your kite would have to contend with.

This is why they have 4 strings, to reduce the angles and these forces are then applied to your bar and not the kite.


sober, sorry.

It was only a quick scetch to put across an idea
Someone with kite design would certainly know how to design a bridle that would distribute the load throughout the le

You're right cauncy, ideas like this get the brain ticking and can lead to new innovations/designs. Maybe even inserting a sail batten along the leading edge/attachment points may give it enough strength to handle a bridle as you've designed. (hate to get kloncked own the head with it though). The batten could be like a bow (bow & arrow) that has a reverse bend in it before fitting. I think we use to call them bow kite when they first appeared in the scene.

Keep the beer flowing and ideas coming. Love it

Don't mind fannying around with a few things now n then
Approx 4 years ago I replaced my le pigtails with ones with an elasticated sheeth,
This gave my 8 catalyst a really smooth feeling,
Great in gusty/ punchy winds,
A bit like a shock absorber
Now ss use a more complicated design, but similar in goals

What if it was bridleles?
It would work on a C right?

how would you steer it if you cannot reshape the leech separately from the font of the arc. ? or de power for that matter?

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cauncy said..
Lack of breeze has had me thinking ( plus 6 guiness )
How abut 3 line kites, why wouldn't it work?
Can it work? Advantages, disadvantages?
Real quick scetch to put you on my wavelength
( without the guiness)

[;

)]

You see the pic. V V V

That's an image of a piece of candy licorice ...the twisted variety.

I love that stuff.

Anyhow, the single centre-line will become a licorice twist after a time.

It will get all twisted up inside and stress itself out to the point of failure.

But it won't be plainly obvious.

A latent ticking time-bomb getting ready to go BANG.

With two centre-lines, the criss-crossing of the strings is clearly visible.

So boon
On the steering, in my thinking would it be better with a mini bridle , moving the point toward the middle of the le, this would then initiate the turn
And by lowering the split , the pressure on the le would be lessened,
Just by drawing more c into the outline makes it appear more balanced

Mk ii

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kitingtopher said...
how would you steer it if you cannot reshape the leech separately from the font of the arc. ? or de power for that matter?

The old c kites were just that
Depower works by opening and closing the face of the kite to the wind, shortening or lengthening your power line/s
A clam cleat would easily do this

Hi Cauncy,

Yes this could definitely help to twist part of the wingtip.

I also had this in mind but never tried.
The center pulley will move left to right when the rider engage the turn moving the center of effort. But not sure if that will work.

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ONYX said...
That's 11 lines.

You been on the guiness too

Your drawing looks similar to the ozone imp trainer kites.They work.
Nothing like an after session ale to enhance the brain cells.

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LeighMajor said..
Your drawing looks similar to the ozone imp trainer kites.They work.
Nothing like an after session ale to enhance the brain cells.

The Imp has a center line but it' not a tow/support line, it's just a 3rd safety line that goes to the trailing edge.
3 lines but different purpose. :-)

Depends on your definition, but some of the c kites in the dark ages had 3 lines.

Though just to confuse matters this one has a second centre line a a leading edge wing tip safety aka the kite spinner of doom.