Looks for a kite to foil in 25knots. Was thinking the 5m ultra. Anyone have any experience on small kites.

Cheers

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Duff15 said..
Looks for a kite to foil on 25knots. Was thinking the 5m ultra. Anyone have any experience on small kites.

Cheers

Yes. 4 and 5m Switch Element. The sweet spot for the 5m is 20-25 knots. The 4m is good for 25-40 knots, although above 35 knots is a gnarly place to be.

Both kites can go down to the mid-teens. They're both fine with apparent wind for riding but water starting can be a struggle down low.

Was looking at this as well, i was thinking even 3.5m could be the go. If you have a big wing like i do wouldn't bother with a 5, i think you could fly a 4 in the same winds and have less pull (if that's your thing, i prefer minimal power in my kites, but prefer to fly the kite to build apparent power). I got my eye out for a 4m, I have tried an ozone uno that was fun but curious to try a 3.5m now as a comparison.

No need to go to the ultra for saving weight in those winds.
Any small kite over 20 knots will work well.
I run a 5m sst over 23ish knts

I agree too, you don't need a light 4. In fact, it should be pretty robust as it's rare to have a smooth wind in 35 plus knots.

I like single struts down to a 7 but after that I stick with 3 struts due to flutter on my 5 and 6 sizes. Reo's are light weight anyway so a good option for those higher wind.
I noted some ads for second hand single struts mention trailing edge wear, no doubt caused by flutter so longevity could be an issue in stronger winds.

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Gorgo said..
Yes. 4 and 5m Switch Element. The sweet spot for the 5m is 20-25 knots. The 4m is good for 25-40 knots, although above 35 knots is a gnarly place to be.

Both kites can go down to the mid-teens. They're both fine with apparent wind for riding but water starting can be a struggle down low.

Cheers mate, do they work on any 4 line bar?

Any bar with low-V, single front line flag out, all lines even length, front lines with knots, back lines with loops (ie. not Ozone unless you want to make new pigtails).

I use my 52cm bar because it like the fast steering. You might want to go shorter to slow things down. I added a knot to the top of the 4m pig tails to get a bit more grunt for water starting.

What kind of riding are you wanting to do in 25 knots with a small kite?

For boosting and blasting about a bit more power is preferable. A 7m is wonderful in stronger winds.

Tiny kites are better suited to surface moves and slow riding playing with chop. You can link super tight turns and a longer bar will zip the kite from point to point with barely a thought. Jumps are doable with a lot of wind but the landings can be a bit messy.

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Gorgo said..
What kind of riding are you wanting to do in 25 knots with a small kite?

For boosting and blasting about a bit more power is preferable. A 7m is wonderful in stronger winds.

Tiny kites are better suited to surface moves and slow riding playing with chop. You can link super tight turns and a longer bar will zip the kite from point to point with barely a thought. Jumps are doable with a lot of wind but the landings can be a bit messy.

I want to foil in bay swell 25 30knots max. Weight 95kegs. I have a 7m ultra but becomes hard work over 23knots. I'm riding strapless well trying too. Love carving.

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Duff15 said..

Gorgo said..
What kind of riding are you wanting to do in 25 knots with a small kite?

For boosting and blasting about a bit more power is preferable. A 7m is wonderful in stronger winds.

Tiny kites are better suited to surface moves and slow riding playing with chop. You can link super tight turns and a longer bar will zip the kite from point to point with barely a thought. Jumps are doable with a lot of wind but the landings can be a bit messy.

I want to foil in bay swell 25 30knots max. Weight 95kegs. I have a 7m ultra but becomes hard work over 23knots. I'm riding strapless well trying too. Love carving.

Have a airush bar

I am loving the 5m Switch Element and use a Airush bar with it. It is single strut and very gust tolerant. Probably starts getting too big around 30 knots. The Ultra looks like a nice kite too but I think 5m is the smallest size.

The 5m Switch Element will have a fair overlap with your 7m. I've been using my 5m in winds from 15 knots while waiting for a repair on my 7m.

The 4m will have almost no overlap. Riding is ok with apparent wind, but waterstarting can be interesting with a kite zipping around the sky like a demented bumble bee. In 35-40 knots it shakes like a demented Jack Russell on the end of a leash.

Here's a picture of a foil attached to a 5m Element from Brighton in 20-30 knots. I changed to the 4m Element later when the wind picked up and to have a bit more fun playing with the waves.

Some of the jumps were good. Some it was hard to hold the edge. A couple of the landings were decent. Most were bum splashes. Jumps with small kites tend to be really good, or really lame.

I'm usually the guy saying go bigger and go for more power. But for 25-30 on a foil unless you are boosting or going for powered speed then a 5m will be too big. If you want to do surface moves, wave riding, drexler style kite tomfoolery then you will need to go to a 4m or even smaller.

25 knots on 4m is pretty damn fun for wave, swell riding and kite gymnastics. Around 30 knots you are pretty damn powered on the 4 and down the line style of wave riding isn't easy anymore. Between 30-40 knots on the 4m is powered as survival kiting. Again dtl is out. But blasting fool pace is still in.

Also the bigger the foil surface area you have the lower your top end will be per kite size.

What's a good low priced 4m - eg Buzz Element ? Any other ideas?

Agree that 5m is way too big in 25 knots plus.

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warwickl said..
What's a good low priced 4m - eg Buzz Element ? Any other ideas?

My ozone uno was pretty damn cheap

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Plummet said..

warwickl said..
What's a good low priced 4m - eg Buzz Element ? Any other ideas?

My ozone uno was pretty damn cheap

How does it go on the foil? Do they come with a bar?

I decided to bite the bullet and bought an F-one breeze 3 m (single strut). Couldn't be happier and I am now waiting for Zeeko to release their pumping wing to pair it with.

At the time I hesitated with the 4m but I am glad I went with the 3. It is at home from 25kn and will go through lulls at 20. This is with the Zeeko blaster foil (750cm2 front wing).

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Duff15 said..

Plummet said..

warwickl said..
What's a good low priced 4m - eg Buzz Element ? Any other ideas?

My ozone uno was pretty damn cheap

How does it go on the foil? Do they come with a bar?

I just use my standard ozone 50cm bar. It turns super fast but I don't care. I like fast.

Yep it's great fun. It gets a bit flappy + 30 knots and I can overload and collapse it in 35-40 knots if I fly it badly. Ultimately a 3 strut would be more stable it stupid gusts. But for the money and intended purpose it works sweet. I have taken it out in 40-50 knots on the mutant and had a blast, again watching that I dont over load the wing on water starts.......

It's really cool to rip downwind on swells looping drifting and back stalling it and generally doing kite gymnastics while riding the swell.

The Uno is a super fun kite to fly at the 25 knot mark. As Plummet says, the looping gymnastics are great. Doing thinks like flying the kite upside down, or past it, crashing it on purpose and trying to recover while still traveling on the foil, looping the kite like a pinwheel having the wing tips clip the water....silly stuff like that which if fun while improving kite skills. I don't get to fly mine that often, but it sure is fun when I do. A dude that kites with us often is about 12 kilos less than me and he is out on the Uno in 17 knots and up range. He has no trouble with it.

I can start using my 5m Cab Drifter at 18kts. Post-curry and a pint, or a pie or two, I'm 92kg. The tiny kite-bigger wing combo intrigues me, and is my next area of exploration for unbroken swells and general noodling about. I think this side of foiling, especially strapless, has A LOT more potential for fun, relaxation and getting more of the doubters into it than the race, big foil kite side of things. Although, I really admire what those fast b*st*rds do and wish I had the b*lls for it, not to mention the readies.

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alverstone said..
I can start using my 5m Cab Drifter at 18kts. Post-curry and a pint, or a pie or two, I'm 92kg. The tiny kite-bigger wing combo intrigues me, and is my next area of exploration for unbroken swells and general noodling about. I think this side of foiling, especially strapless, has A LOT more potential for fun, relaxation and getting more of the doubters into it than the race, big foil kite side of things. Although, I really admire what those fast b*st*rds do and wish I had the b*lls for it, not to mention the readies.

It *is* fun. Becomes more about riding the board and not using the kite. Small swell is "surfable" and a well-deserved designed wing need not be slow...

Local (NZ ATM) is using Peak4 in 3, 4, and 5m sizes. He was out last week in big surf (well over my head) and his 3m while I were just hanging on to a 10m and teatray.

Worked alright eh

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dafish said..
The Uno is a super fun kite to fly at the 25 knot mark. As Plummet says, the looping gymnastics are great. Doing thinks like flying the kite upside down, or past it, crashing it on purpose and trying to recover while still traveling on the foil, looping the kite like a pinwheel having the wing tips clip the water....silly stuff like that which if fun while improving kite skills. I don't get to fly mine that often, but it sure is fun when I do. A dude that kites with us often is about 12 kilos less than me and he is out on the Uno in 17 knots and up range. He has no trouble with it.

Hehehehe. Yeah, I love that sort of flying. Its like stunt kite flying whilst foiling. The local crew are like "What the actual Fark" when I rip past with a pivot looping bumble bee kite or back stalled backwards flying... That type of flying is very foreign to them,

I'll tack 1.5 to 2km upwind and out to sea then loop/backstall pivot turn wang my way back to the beach riding the swells all the way in.

Another amusing moving is to be fanging powerd up cross wind In one direction then just downloop the kite and wang it through the wind window in the opposite direction. Feel the slingshot as you pendulum down wind, Then loop the kite back and across the window before you drive the kite right out of the wind window..... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH. That is Fun with a capital F.

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Plummet said..

dafish said..
The Uno is a super fun kite to fly at the 25 knot mark. As Plummet says, the looping gymnastics are great. Doing thinks like flying the kite upside down, or past it, crashing it on purpose and trying to recover while still traveling on the foil, looping the kite like a pinwheel having the wing tips clip the water....silly stuff like that which if fun while improving kite skills. I don't get to fly mine that often, but it sure is fun when I do. A dude that kites with us often is about 12 kilos less than me and he is out on the Uno in 17 knots and up range. He has no trouble with it.

Hehehehe. Yeah, I love that sort of flying. Its like stunt kite flying whilst foiling. The local crew are like "What the actual Fark" when I rip past with a pivot looping bumble bee kite or back stalled backwards flying... That type of flying is very foreign to them,

I'll tack 1.5 to 2km upwind and out to sea then loop/backstall pivot turn wang my way back to the beach riding the swells all the way in.

Another amusing moving is to be fanging powerd up cross wind In one direction then just downloop the kite and wang it through the wind window in the opposite direction. Feel the slingshot as you pendulum down wind, Then loop the kite back and across the window before you drive the kite right out of the wind window..... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH. That is Fun with a capital F.

A 4m kite must be so fast. How do they go strapless. I use the power to pull my feet to the board and get up. I would imagine it would take a few swings on a 4m

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Duff15 said..

Plummet said..

dafish said..
The Uno is a super fun kite to fly at the 25 knot mark. As Plummet says, the looping gymnastics are great. Doing thinks like flying the kite upside down, or past it, crashing it on purpose and trying to recover while still traveling on the foil, looping the kite like a pinwheel having the wing tips clip the water....silly stuff like that which if fun while improving kite skills. I don't get to fly mine that often, but it sure is fun when I do. A dude that kites with us often is about 12 kilos less than me and he is out on the Uno in 17 knots and up range. He has no trouble with it.

Hehehehe. Yeah, I love that sort of flying. Its like stunt kite flying whilst foiling. The local crew are like "What the actual Fark" when I rip past with a pivot looping bumble bee kite or back stalled backwards flying... That type of flying is very foreign to them,

I'll tack 1.5 to 2km upwind and out to sea then loop/backstall pivot turn wang my way back to the beach riding the swells all the way in.

Another amusing moving is to be fanging powerd up cross wind In one direction then just downloop the kite and wang it through the wind window in the opposite direction. Feel the slingshot as you pendulum down wind, Then loop the kite back and across the window before you drive the kite right out of the wind window..... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH. That is Fun with a capital F.

A 4m kite must be so fast. How do they go strapless. I use the power to pull my feet to the board and get up. I would imagine it would take a few swings on a 4m

It only takes a few loops if you are underdone, say sub 20 knots. 25 knots and there's ample power. Remember a small kite has a solid power spike when sent. Its easy getting up and out. If its a bit light you can go for big angry loops to start. Throw wong 3/4 the size of the wind window! that will get you going! if not keep looping until it does,

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Duff15 said..

Plummet said..

dafish said..
The Uno is a super fun kite to fly at the 25 knot mark. As Plummet says, the looping gymnastics are great. Doing thinks like flying the kite upside down, or past it, crashing it on purpose and trying to recover while still traveling on the foil, looping the kite like a pinwheel having the wing tips clip the water....silly stuff like that which if fun while improving kite skills. I don't get to fly mine that often, but it sure is fun when I do. A dude that kites with us often is about 12 kilos less than me and he is out on the Uno in 17 knots and up range. He has no trouble with it.

Hehehehe. Yeah, I love that sort of flying. Its like stunt kite flying whilst foiling. The local crew are like "What the actual Fark" when I rip past with a pivot looping bumble bee kite or back stalled backwards flying... That type of flying is very foreign to them,

I'll tack 1.5 to 2km upwind and out to sea then loop/backstall pivot turn wang my way back to the beach riding the swells all the way in.

Another amusing moving is to be fanging powerd up cross wind In one direction then just downloop the kite and wang it through the wind window in the opposite direction. Feel the slingshot as you pendulum down wind, Then loop the kite back and across the window before you drive the kite right out of the wind window..... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH. That is Fun with a capital F.

A 4m kite must be so fast. How do they go strapless. I use the power to pull my feet to the board and get up. I would imagine it would take a few swings on a 4m

I only ride strapless. I almost always downloop my starts, gets me on plane straight away. 80 k's riding a Spitfire xlw wing on a handmade Paipo. Pretty basic, but really fun.

I recently got a 4m kite (Wave SST) in anticipation of foiling in stronger winds. Never flown such a small kite before. Any views on best line length? I run 20m lines for my 6m and that works nicely, but on the 4?

20m will be fine. I run 23m on all my foiling kites from 7m down to 3.5m, and have some 21s waiting for when the 23s eventually wear out. No need to go shorter.