Hi,

I'm only starting with foiling and find it really problematic to body drag when using small kites. Do you have any tips?
Here is one example: wind 20 knots and choppy water using 9m2 F-one bandit, which should be fine, but it's really hard for me to body drag upwind.
My weight is 85kg (~185lbs)

Best,
Mike

Is it only me or others also have troubles when body dragging with a small kite?

Hi Mikedk

your question is a bit confusing. A 9m kite isn't a small kite, especially when foiling in 20 knots. What sort of issues do you have with body dragging with the foil ? 20 knots with a 9m kite should be no worries to body drag upwind with the foil if you have a good technique. I understand it's a good exercise to body drag with a foil but you really shouldn't have to spend too much time on this or worry about this.

What is your actual skill level and experience in kitesurfing in general ?

Christian

Hi Christian,

Right, it's a mid size kite for kiteboarding. I consider it small as I'm usually out with 11 or 13.
About my skills, kiteboarding level is advanced (4+ years) and foiling level is zero/beginner (tried it once), and body dragging scared me off. Perhaps I'm used to having more power in my kite from kiteboarding, I couldn't body drag back to my foil for a while with 9m2 and about 15knots (20 in gusts).

When learning to foil, it is recommended that you have plenty of power in your kite -- so most people recommend the same kite you'd use to have adequate power on twintip (not boosting to the moon, just able to plane easily). That way you have power on demand for learning the waterstart, can plane with foilboard on surface, then eventually get up on foil. With this kite sizing, you should find that bodydragging is same or easier on a foil. You rest your body kind of half over the board, point the foil upwind, lean into it, and you'll go quite fast. Possibly even feel foil trying to rise!

But once you get better at foiling, you'll find the apparent wind you generate means that you get over-powered quickly and you will enjoy a much smaller kite. I now find I prefer 2-4m less in size than what others at my beach are using with twintips. EG 8m at 16-18kt, vs normally at 25-30kt.

However, the challenge this brings is that our spots require bodydragging offshore to get through the kelp beds. If I am perfectly comfortable foiling my 8m in 18kts, this may not be enough wind for easy consistent pull when body dragging. You have to work the kite more, but that's challenging one handed, with other hand on board. I find I have to angle it more downwind than I prefer, to get enough speed to not bog down. So yes, it's a challenge!

A similar problem is in super light wind. You have enough wind to fly the kite and enough wind for foiling once you're up and riding. But getting between the launch and up and riding can be pretty iffy. It is especially challenging in onshore winds, as you can wade out to chest deep, but you can't afford any downwind movement in our waterstart, but you don't have enough power to start fully side to the wind. And not enough power to bodydrag. Those are the days where you honestly may be better off doing something else ... unless you are able to get it working, then you're the champ for the day, maybe the only person on the beach able to ride while everyone else watches.

juandesooka many thanks for your reply!
I fully agree with you, though had only 2 foiling sessions;) I don't get why so many tutorials advise on using smaller kites when starting. It just doesn't feel right to go out so underpowered. I ended up using the same kite as for my surfboard, and it worked out fine. It looks like you could put together a pretty good tutorial :)

Many tutorials etc. do say use a small kite because it is true.
but you also use longer lines to give the longer power surge to get you up and going. Then you also want an agile quick tuning kite to compensate for the longer lines. Then you can depower enough when on the foil and still keep line tension to steer it.
as far as body dragging goes. If you want to foil then you'd better hone those skills. Even though body dragging with the foil is about the easiest way to go upwind there is.

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mikedk said..
Is it only me or others also have troubles when body dragging with a small kite?

When you first start using a hydrofoil, you often fail to take into account the mast and wings. Your expectation is the behaviour will be consistent with either a TT or surfboard. It won't take you long to get used to moving the wing into the least resistance positioning (ie pointing forward).

I typically place my hand on top of the position where my front foot would be placed and position the length of my board along my arm to my shoulder. I can then lean into the board with my shoulder to push the board up wind.

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mikedk said..
Hi Christian,

Right, it's a mid size kite for kiteboarding. I consider it small as I'm usually out with 11 or 13.
About my skills, kiteboarding level is advanced (4+ years) and foiling level is zero/beginner (tried it once), and body dragging scared me off. Perhaps I'm used to having more power in my kite from kiteboarding, I couldn't body drag back to my foil for a while with 9m2 and about 15knots (20 in gusts).

There would never be a need to body drag upwind to a foilboard. If it is 20m upwind of you just stay where you are and the foilboard catch up to in about 30 seconds. If you crash and dont grab the foilboard straight away because your relaunching your kite it can easily be 50m downwind in 2 minutes.

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snalberski said..

mikedk said..
Hi Christian,

Right, it's a mid size kite for kiteboarding. I consider it small as I'm usually out with 11 or 13.
About my skills, kiteboarding level is advanced (4+ years) and foiling level is zero/beginner (tried it once), and body dragging scared me off. Perhaps I'm used to having more power in my kite from kiteboarding, I couldn't body drag back to my foil for a while with 9m2 and about 15knots (20 in gusts).

There would never be a need to body drag upwind to a foilboard. If it is 20m upwind of you just stay where you are and the foilboard catch up to in about 30 seconds. If you crash and dont grab the foilboard straight away because your relaunching your kite it can easily be 50m downwind in 2 minutes.

Exactly what I was thinking, however I can't see why you wouldn't be able to body drag up wind on a 9 in 20 knots anyway.

I don't get it either. 9m 20 knots is powered.

Are you talking with the foil to get out past the breakers in onshore waves? or are you talking recovering the foil when you have crashed

Plummet andtightlines
I mean recovering the foil when I have crashed.
Right, it wasn't stable 20 knots, it was about 15knots of stable wind and I used a 9m bandit (24m lines). Everyone was riding tt boards and 12-14m kites. I guess it really depends on water conditions too. I'm gonna try with a normal kite size, and let's see how it goes :)

After a crash on a foil probably the only thing that would stop your foil coming down wind to you would be a strong current.
and 15kts on a 9 is still fine for body dragging. In fact once into your foiling you would be dragging upwind with 7's and 8's in as low as 11-12kts.
So maybe revisit your technique and do some practice, as building that skill will make for better fun down the track.

Just body drag like normal. It works but slower than when powered. Another way when really underpowered is to park the kite at 12 and back stroke directly upwind. That is sometimes faster than zigging and zagging upwind body dragging.

PS my low volume pocket board/foil combo does not rip down wind like how others suggest foils do. I have do body drag back to it like a tt.

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Plummet said..
Just body drag like normal. It works but slower than when powered. Another way when really underpowered is to park the kite at 12 and back stroke directly upwind. That is sometimes faster than zigging and zagging upwind body dragging.

Agreed! It's very rare that you will need to body drag upwind to recover a foil. In fact I can't remember the last time I had to do this. Foils fly so fast downwind that just parking your kite above your head and waiting is enough to get your foil back in a few seconds most of the time.

mikedk, from reading your posts it seems like your upwind body drag technique needs some work.

Thank you guys for being so helpful! Your comments are so spot on, and will surely help in my next foiling session, so just waiting for some wind to try it all out.
About my body drags, I do need some more experience with body drags, especially when underpowered. Just realised I've not been crashing much on my tt over the past years :)

Years ago at the Australian round of the world rally championship. Possum Bourne( Australian rally driver) asked Carlos Sainz, "how do you go so fast".
the return question "when was last time you crashed".
Possum replied, "I've given up crashing years ago".
Sainz answered " then how do you know when you're going fast enough?"
push those boundaries people.
And Foiling is the new bulldozer for pushing them hard.

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RAL INN said..
Possum Bourne( Australian rally driver) asked Carlos Sainz, "how do you go so fast".

Bloody hell. Is it not enough to do underarm bowls at cricket matches, Steel crowded house and pavlova's yourve got to try and claim NZ's rally drivers too.....

I guess once a convict always a convict!

I meant that as a driver in the Australian rally championship.
with a name like Possum he'd naturally be a Kiwi, eh!