Since taking up this kite foiling I've often found myself having to wind up my lines and paddle in with inflated kite attached to my leash. Once the wind gets so low that I can't reverse launch the kite I'm screwed. I've always wound about 6m of one of my back lines in first so the kite can't take off. The next thing you know, the wind comes in and I want to let out the lines again. Sometimes this works, but I struggle not to get the lines in a tangle. I'm thinking I'm not the only one with this issue. Is there a better way to do this? Thanks

Don't wind your lines in. If there's still a little bit of wind then you can tension the lines to steer the downed kite towards the land. Let it tow you in. If the wind picks up a enough relaunch and keep riding.

If things are completely stuffed then wind the lines in and self-rescue. Sit/lie on one end of the leading edge. Secure the board and foil next to you with the kite leash to act as a keel. Tension the bridle lines so the opposite tip stands up. You don't need much and you can make 2-4 knots with a similar angle to a small sailing dinghy. It's fun.

Thanks Gorgo. I can see idea of sailng in holding the bridal lines could work well, especially now I have a centre board. I would still like to wind and unwind lines to go to and from good sailing grounds with a bit more ease, safety and confidence.

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AUS126 said..
Since taking up this kite foiling I've often found myself having to wind up my lines and paddle in with inflated kite ....

Some food for thought - maybe an alternative approach to solving your problem. If you had the right kites they will never fall out of the sky.
My kite story went like this, as I got into foiling and forgot about TT..
- start with TT kites (5 strut)
- move to 1 strut (so much better)
- No strut (even better)
- foil kite (best)

The peak 4's (3/4/5/6) weigh under a kilo and will stay in the air in about 2kts. My PLKB Nova 10m ultralight weighs under 1.5kgs and doesn't require much more.

If you can afford it and can't handle the thought of a foil kite, Aluula kites might work as well. I've flown the Flite 14.5 in 2-3kts, it will almost hot launch from walking backwards in a dead calm. However they still feel heavier in the sky than light foil kites imho.

I'm 100kgs and I was out on Saturday with the Nova 10m after we measured 8-9kts on the beach. Great light wind ocean session with friends on Soul 10m and Sonic 11m. We all ride pocket boards, all catching waves, enjoying the ocean being so calm in that light wind, water was clear and green, and the kites behaved perfectly. Came in after 2hours when it dropped to about 6-7kts. The kicker? There were 4 inflatos on the beach and a couple of foil boards, the poor buggers didn't get into the water all avo.

Are these Peak kites delicate foiling only kites? Would you blow out or wreck them, if using with a surfboard in the waves in 25 kts? Cheers

Peak4 kites are designed to drag you through snow up steep mountains in a blizzard! They're not delicate. Because they're just a single skin and have no heavy fabric, bladders or second skin they are very light in weight. The construction fabric although light is incredibly tough. It's not subject to bursting pressures like twin skin or inflatable kites. You can crash it as hard and fast as you can into hard surfaces and it just collapses with no damage.

The Peak4 was never designed for kiting and foiling but with a surf foil nothing comes close for drift, manoeuvrability and instant depower which is fantastic even in wind chop waves. With a surfboard, the correct size Peak4 and good wind is great for waveriding especially downwind where you can keep the Peak4 in the air even when riding straight at it. If you drop it in the surf you'll be swimming in, but these kites are easy to keep in the air.

I've sold a lot of Peak4 kites since they were released a couple of years ago and I've yet to hear of one that's worn out or damaged. Their owners love them and I had a great session today on the 3m Peak4 in 15 - 20 knots. If you want more info or would like to try one send me a message.

Great info Dr Surf. They sound like they have a great wind range too, which is attractive as I aim for minimal gear with all these new foiling disciplines.

I made a vid a while back. It's not a great vid. But it was my first time with a gopro on a stick and my first time editing. After filming for 20 minutes or so I got sick of juggling the pole and went in and ditched it, then went back and had great fun throwing the peak around - I like looping it while foiling toeside to unwind from downloop gybes, for example. I would agree with Dr Surf above and of course bought mine from him. However I would say that they don't drift as well as he says unless there's a certain level of wind. I have a very efficient light wind large wing and if I get on a wave in too light wind I can still slack lines and end up with a swim in, if I'm being too careless. That's the warning. For me it's worth the risk, I'll choose the p4 every time though because I'm an active kite flyer who enjoys throwing the kite around while foiling and they are perfect for that.

I agree KB. The best video of foiling is made by a mate with a drone to follow you around while you foil your brains out, unimpeded by poles and GoPro's held in your teeth

And as far as drift goes I must admit we're spoiled by our location with the sea breeze being steady and strong when it comes in. The last 4 days I've been out have all been on a 3m Peak4, comfortably powered and drifting my brains out It helps being 65kg. My fellow 100kg kitefoiler had to go big with a 4m Peak4

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drsurf said..
I agree KB. The best video of foiling is made by a mate with a drone to follow you around while you foil your brains out, unimpeded by poles and GoPro's held in your teeth

And as far as drift goes I must admit we're spoiled by our location with the sea breeze being steady and strong when it comes in. The last 4 days I've been out have all been on a 3m Peak4, comfortably powered and drifting my brains out It helps being 65kg. My fellow 100kg kitefoiler had to go big with a 4m Peak4

Haha, getting a bit off topic guys! Peak4's are their own topic, and while they are awesome in many ways. drift launching is probably not really one of them! (Not that I've tried to as yet, as they just want to keep flying in the slightest breeze! If you don't ride directly toward the kite.)

My Peak4 kites (4-5-8-13) have drift launched well. I'm guessing the 3 would be the best of the bunch.

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KBGhost said.

The peak 4's (3/4/5/6) weigh under a kilo and will stay in the air in about 2kts.

Based on more than a full season of observing several different Peak 4 riders in a variety of conditions at my local I call absolute bollocks. Even if they could why would anyone risk taking a practically non relaunchable snow kite out in 2 knots? Maybe you meant 12 knots.

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snalberski said..

KBGhost said.

The peak 4's (3/4/5/6) weigh under a kilo and will stay in the air in about 2kts.

Based on more than a full season of observing several different Peak 4 riders in a variety of conditions at my local I call absolute bollocks. Even if they could why would anyone risk taking a practically non relaunchable snow kite out in 2 knots? Maybe you meant 12 knots.

Definitely more like 2 knots than 12 knots minimum to keep them flying. as long as you're not drifting downwind!

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snalberski said..

KBGhost said.

The peak 4's (3/4/5/6) weigh under a kilo and will stay in the air in about 2kts.

Based on more than a full season of observing several different Peak 4 riders in a variety of conditions at my local I call absolute bollocks. Even if they could why would anyone risk taking a practically non relaunchable snow kite out in 2 knots? Maybe you meant 12 knots.

You can call bollocks till the cows come home but a single skin lightweight material foil kite with lightweight bridle has the best sail area to weight ratio of any kite. They just will not fall out of the sky due to lack of wind, unless there is literally no wind.

I did not say that you would take one out in 2 knots. OP & I were talking about when you're already out and a serious lull happens.

I have owned a p4 13m and sold it again, it wasn't for me. However that kite was rock solid in the sky in the slightest breeze of any kite I've ever flown.

The issue comes when you're foiling along in 6kts and go to gybe. Very easy to exceed 6kts toward the kite and have it turn into a sheet.

Are you really claiming a peak takes 12kts to stay in the sky?

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KBGhost said..

Are you really claiming a peak takes 12kts to stay in the sky?

No. I was merely pointing out that indicating to readers that a P4 or any kite for that matter is practically usable in 2 knots is rubbish. The mention of 12knots was to exaggerate and emphasize how off the mark your ramblings are.
Having said that based on what I have witnessed 12 knots would not be far above what I would consider to be practically usable, unless you into long swims.

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snalberski said..

KBGhost said..

Are you really claiming a peak takes 12kts to stay in the sky?

No. I was merely pointing out that indicating to readers that a P4 or any kite for that matter is practically usable in 2 knots is rubbish. The mention of 12knots was to exaggerate and emphasize how off the mark your ramblings are.
Having said that based on what I have witnessed 12 knots would not be far above what I would consider to be practically usable, unless you into long swims.

And I'm merely pointing out that you're answering a question nobody asked. Nobody claimed "practically usable", you've come up with that all on your own. If old mate is out in 12kts and it suddenly drops to 2-6kts, his inflato's going down. That's the premise of the thread. If it drops to that range, you might, might keep an aluula 14.5 flite or larger roam in the air. You can keep lighter foil kites in the air in that range fairly easily, particularly ultralights. You can keep a p4 in the air down to around 2kts because they weigh nothing. Nobody's saying any of those kites are usable in that range.. You're just surviving the lull and waiting for the wind to come back to something usable. It's much better to wait out the lull with your kite in the sky.

Foiling in 8-10kts is sublime by the way, the ocean can be magnificent. Had many couple of hour sessions in that range without any swims, short or long.

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KBGhost said..

Foiling in 8-10kts is sublime by the way, the ocean can be magnificent. Had many couple of hour sessions in that range without any swims, short or long.

Yeah been there done that... Yaaawn
The original post was asking for a good method to wind up lines. Your suggestion is to buy a different kite, quoting ridiculous unsubstantiated range claims, for all to view, experienced and not.
Maybe you should post a vid of yourself flying your P4 in 2 knots before misinforming and misguiding those readers who don't know better.
In fact not even Flysurfer indicate 2 knots being within the flying range of any of their P4's, and that is using the kite on land.

Hey look we've found the only guy in the world who thinks manufacturers wind range claims mean "will stay in the air". I've seen them say "foil"and I've seen them say "TT" and I've seen them say "snow" but I've never seen them say "hang in the sky".

You're being really weird. There's nothing to argue here. OP can learn to wrap & unwrap his lines better, but nobody has jumped in with any sure fire way. It's always a bit dodgy to do that on the water. Maybe better to think outside the box and consider a kite that stays in the sky. For that you need the ratio of size to weight. Foils kill leis for that.

Instead of banging my head against this brick wall I had a great session yesterday in 7-10kts. Cruising at 12-14kts on the foil, beach to myself, riding small ocean swell, joined by 2 dolphins, really a massively satisfying soul session. Other people might say yawn but to each his own, that's the joy of kiting. I used to only get excited when it hit 30kts. Now at 100kgs I'm having a ball in 7-10kts with a 10m kite.

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KBGhost said..
Hey look we've found the only guy in the world who thinks manufacturers wind range claims mean "will stay in the air". I've seen them say "foil"and I've seen them say "TT" and I've seen them say "snow" but I've never seen them say "hang in the sky".

You're being really weird. There's nothing to argue here. OP can learn to wrap & unwrap his lines better, but nobody has jumped in with any sure fire way. It's always a bit dodgy to do that on the water. Maybe better to think outside the box and consider a kite that stays in the sky. For that you need the ratio of size to weight. Foils kill leis for that.

Instead of banging my head against this brick wall I had a great session yesterday in 7-10kts. Cruising at 12-14kts on the foil, beach to myself, riding small ocean swell, joined by 2 dolphins, really a massively satisfying soul session. Other people might say yawn but to each his own, that's the joy of kiting. I used to only get excited when it hit 30kts. Now at 100kgs I'm having a ball in 7-10kts with a 10m kite.

You clearly don't get it. The reason I arc up is really as a service to readers who don't know the reality either through being new to the sport or the light wind discipline. What you don't appreciate is that when you say...
"The peak 4's (3/4/5/6) weigh under a kilo and will stay in the air in about 2kts" I would argue that a large number of readers including myself would interpret that as meaning that 2 knots is within the usage range. If your flying the kite in 2 knots your obviously using it in 2 knots. Maybe you have a different understanding or judgment of how strong 2 knots is to my understanding but I do know that every knot of wind increases the strength by 4 fold. This conversely reads that 2 knots is one quarter the strength of 3 kts.. and on algorithmically downward and upward.
I still say bollocks to 2 knots whether your just 'staying in the air' or not. Words mean nothing even if you are having a soul session with the dolphins, just post a vid of you flying your P4 in 2 knots in the water and I'll shut my hole.

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snalberski said..
The reason I arc up is really as a service to readers

Comedy gold right there


Rather than hanging in the air in 2 knots, how about random riding in 4-7kts. He says I can easy jibe in only 4 Knots.


Here is another video of 4-5 knots. Look at the peak in the background, it's rock solid. You can tell when at kite is getting low on wind, it backs down and drifts around. 4-5 knots aint that.


Here's another video where the guy is riding in 4-6 knots


Now remember we're not discussing riding, you're calling bollocks on hanging in the air through a lull, apparently as a service to readers.

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KBGhost said..

snalberski said..
The reason I arc up is really as a service to readers

Comedy gold right there


Rather than hanging in the air in 2 knots, how about random riding in 4-7kts. He says I can easy jibe in only 4 Knots.

Here is another video of 4-5 knots. Look at the peak in the background, it's rock solid. You can tell when at kite is getting low on wind, it backs down and drifts around. 4-5 knots aint that.

Here's another video where the guy is riding in 4-6 knots

Now remember we're not discussing riding, you're calling bollocks on hanging in the air through a lull, apparently as a service to readers.

4 knots is effectively 16 times more powerful than 2 knots based on the 1knot=4 times the power equation. Where's the 2knot vids? Clearly they don't exist except in your imagination. I have never said P4 won't perform in light winds but every kite has limitations and I don't believe a kite exists that will fly in 2 knots. But I'm willing to be proved wrong. In fact I wish I was wrong. I doubt that you can provide irrefutable proof of your ridiculous claims based on your attempts at deflection with non relavant vids, but I'll wait and hope. Have fun, but keep it real for f**ks sake

Damn I am confused...

1) how does anyone in WA even know what 2 knots is. You guys only have green or brown arrows

2) your algorithm is broken. There is one knot difference between 14 and 15 knots, but I swear that there isn't 4 times the pressure on my kite

have been kiting for more than a decade, have never been near a peak 4, but am now very curious.

thanks both for an entertaining read, but let's not get nasty. COVID has made us all a little anxious!

Surely kiting in under 10 knots on a foil is the new definition of 'mowing the lawn'

I wonder what the new peak 5 has that the 4 doesn't?

4 years ago a prototype single skin was relaunchable. Never seen or head of them either

These relaunchable foil kites look interesting. To answer my original question: The wind died out yesterday so I tried winding the 2 back lines up a few metres first, then proceeded to wind up all lines. The kite sat beautifully, instead of twisting or looping as it often does when I wind only one back line up first. I then unwound lines when the wind came in, and it worked a treat. I am still a bit concerned the kite might reverse launch when there is more wind, so will treat this method with caution, but I seem to have found myself a solution.

Perhaps the confusion is the " double the wind speed is energy squared"
You carry on AUS126, you've done well