anyone tried the Clearwater foil kits ? Do they work well ? Keen to get on this foil thing but a bit short on benjamins

xoxo
loverboy

Just use ya brain and make ya own. That's what I did.

Theres tones of info around. Google is your friend.

I have. I'm pleasantly surprised. Does what it says on the tin. Not super sophisticated but good enough if you want something to test the water.

Stable. Early lift. Easy to ride. Almost bomb proof. The one I'm borrowing vibrates like a b**st*rd when you go fast but that may be down to the quality of the build. I can only compare to a Moses Silente and it compares very favourably - certainly for the first steps of learning. It also floats which works well with low bouyancy boards. I have it paired with a Shinn Stubbo and foot positions line up really well for the balance point (so well in fact you could probably use the zeeko templates if you were making your own board)

Biggest downside is portability. Its designed to be built in a single piece so it fits alright in a hatchback and you aren't going to take it on a plane any time soon. You have to build it. My mate who built this one is a bit of a gorilla so I assume it must be fairly easy as he can barely put together a flat pack kitchen without help . One of the comedy advantages is flexibility. He got fed up with the onshore wind at our local and cut the mast down to 65cm after a month to make it easier to get out. That's shorter than I'd ideally go for but I can't deny it makes it so much easier in onshore wind.

Knowing what I know now, I'd probably go this way rather than buying a foil to learn on. I must have lost more money in the first year (on a second hand foil and board) than this cost so I'd still be quids in. That said. You will probably end up buying another at some point for travelling - its just by that point you'll know if its for you or not.

Its one step down from full DIY but the profiles work.

Solid info, thanks mate

What ever you do make the rear wing adjustable so you can change the AOA in relation to the front wing. That is critical to a good performing foil. People who make fixed wings miss out on the change of tuning there foil for better performance and to tweak the foil as your riding style changes

Turning to the dark side big fella?
You won't regret it, heaps more water time.

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Plummet said..
What ever you do make the rear wing adjustable so you can change the AOA in relation to the front wing. That is critical to a good performing foil. People who make fixed wings miss out on the change of tuning there foil for better performance and to tweak the foil as your riding style changes

I see what you are saying but as the kit is like $150, I'd probably end up making two of them. One to learn how to make it and learn how to foil and another one to correct all the mistakes that you make the first time round.

Mind you, thats partly coz I think a 'router' is the thing that plugs into the telephone line and brings wifi to your house rather than a wood working tool

IDIY'ed a wing set out of g10. Doable by a semi doofus ... Belt sander, face mask, and some time. Plus a drill.

you can use aluminum tubing for a fuselage. But the mast is better to buy. And that's where they get you ... cheapest option is slingshot, about $100 us plus $60 from base plate. Add that to materials cost and you start to approach same price as a cheapo used liquid force starter setup.

if there are used ones around you may be better to buy the cheapie, learn on it knowing that you have a working foil, then when you're ready to upgrade you can sell it for what you paid.

unfortunately the diy option may end up costing more to get less. Especially if you count false starts and screw ups.

but if you do try diy with ss mast, only a little extra to get the 3 masts $165 us. excellent for starting out and later on may be useful for shallow water.

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weebitbreezy said..

Plummet said..
What ever you do make the rear wing adjustable so you can change the AOA in relation to the front wing. That is critical to a good performing foil. People who make fixed wings miss out on the change of tuning there foil for better performance and to tweak the foil as your riding style changes

I see what you are saying but as the kit is like $150, I'd probably end up making two of them. One to learn how to make it and learn how to foil and another one to correct all the mistakes that you make the first time round.

Mind you, thats partly coz I think a 'router' is the thing that plugs into the telephone line and brings wifi to your house rather than a wood working tool

But if you set it up wrong it will be crap to learn on. It's pretty easy to make the rear wing adjustable. Just bolt it on and shim as required.

If you don't have the skill to do that then you don't have the skill to build the foil.

I can't afford carbon foils at the moments and I'd rather go DIY with alternative materials, for my hydrofoil project. .

My aim is not high-wind, high speed flying 1 m. above the water, but, more modestly, gliding a few inches above, sort of midway between planing and full-fledge hydrofoiling, in light 10-12 knts winds . The board is a 11.6 ft long , 36 " wide, 220 lt Bic WindSUP.

Here are my questions:

1.Material: instead of attaching the wings to the US fin box, which can be problematic, I have no alternative but using a mounting plate attached to the hull. Can I use fiberglas-reinforced wood for the plate, instead of metal, as well as for the mast, the wings and the fuselage?

2. Plate position: the plate will have to go forwards of the fin box , in order not to permanently disable it, if I am to resume regular windsurfing. Optimal position along the hull?

3.Can I simply attach the plate to the hull with fiberglas epoxy resin, instead of bolting it ( which I don't think it is feasible, anyway) ? Can it come off?

4. Length of the mast. What is the minimum length I can give? Water tends to be shallow for a long stretch around the launching point , here, with shifting hidden sandbanks and hidden rocks just below the surface, especially in summer. I wouldn't go above 40 cm ( 16 "), even less, of possible. Would this be enough?

5.Main wing surface: I was thinking 36" x12", to maximize light winds lift. The board is 11ft long, 34 " wide and at least for the moment, I wouldn't go above 10-12 knts winds .

6.Perhaps given the low winds usage I'd make , the rear stabilizer wing is unnecessary. It would simplify things enormously to do away with it and attach the wing directly onto the mast, if possible. Is it feasible, keeping in mind my intended purpose? What are the drawbacks of not having a rear wing?

I don't have the slightest idea if it will work. I thought to give it a try, anyway. It will have costed about $ 50 in wood and resin , after all, plus my time. I am hoping for the best , but I am prepared for the worst ( excluding my body integrity from the worst scenario, of course..) . I'll go very carefully, in shallow waters first, to test it out, in a few weeks.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions

Francone

There is a subsection of the foiling section on kite forum dedicated to DIY foils

I built a standard Clearwater foil kit that James sells, I had no issues with payment and shipping. I hadn't ever attempted to fibreglass before but I've been very happy with the results. I've had the foil for about a year and a half now.
I followed the instructions that he sends and his youtube guide vids, a suggestion would be be to grab an old twin tip to use for the board, just add deck grip or use booties, I wouldn't bother with bindings on the deck.
I like that the foil floats on its side, I think it makes the learning progression slightly easier. My foil does hum a bit but its barley noticeable when your up riding, the foil doesn't have the outright speed that a brand name foil has though.
I made the mast the full length as the kit came with, it seems to work well. You could easily grab another kit and make a short mast version. I didn't worry about making anything adjustable, just make sure the board is removable.
Weebitbreezy is spot on with his comments. I've found it easy to use and learn so far and just as much fun as a more expensive foil.

Happy foiling whichever way you end up going, you'll having a blast learning, it opens up so many more days to being out on the water kiting.

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Francone said..
I can't afford carbon foils at the moments and I'd rather go DIY with alternative materials, for my hydrofoil project. .

My aim is not high-wind, high speed flying 1 m. above the water, but, more modestly, gliding a few inches above, sort of midway between planing and full-fledge hydrofoiling, in light 10-12 knts winds . The board is a 11.6 ft long , 36 " wide, 220 lt Bic WindSUP.

Here are my questions:

1.Material: instead of attaching the wings to the US fin box, which can be problematic, I have no alternative but using a mounting plate attached to the hull. Can I use fiberglas-reinforced wood for the plate, instead of metal, as well as for the mast, the wings and the fuselage?

2. Plate position: the plate will have to go forwards of the fin box , in order not to permanently disable it, if I am to resume regular windsurfing. Optimal position along the hull?

3.Can I simply attach the plate to the hull with fiberglas epoxy resin, instead of bolting it ( which I don't think it is feasible, anyway) ? Can it come off?

Sounds like you are preparing to permanently trash your board...

Just do it properly, whether you do deep tuttle or tracks. PVC foam block, then route out to insert mounting system. Re-glass on top, etc....

Done professionally it will cost you between $250-300. Done yourself, there is for about $100 of material if you go with the good stuffs, $70 with cheaper hardware.

I have done it on a few boards, it isn't that hard really but it takes time.

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Livit said..

Francone said..
I can't afford carbon foils at the moments and I'd rather go DIY with alternative materials, for my hydrofoil project. .

My aim is not high-wind, high speed flying 1 m. above the water, but, more modestly, gliding a few inches above, sort of midway between planing and full-fledge hydrofoiling, in light 10-12 knts winds . The board is a 11.6 ft long , 36 " wide, 220 lt Bic WindSUP.

Here are my questions:

1.Material: instead of attaching the wings to the US fin box, which can be problematic, I have no alternative but using a mounting plate attached to the hull. Can I use fiberglas-reinforced wood for the plate, instead of metal, as well as for the mast, the wings and the fuselage?

2. Plate position: the plate will have to go forwards of the fin box , in order not to permanently disable it, if I am to resume regular windsurfing. Optimal position along the hull?

3.Can I simply attach the plate to the hull with fiberglas epoxy resin, instead of bolting it ( which I don't think it is feasible, anyway) ? Can it come off?

Sounds like you are preparing to permanently trash your board..

Just do it properly, whether you do deep tuttle or tracks. PVC foam block, then route out to insert mounting system. Re-glass on top, etc....

Done professionally it will cost you between $250-300. Done yourself, there is for about $100 of material if you go with the good stuffs, $70 with cheaper hardware.

I have done it on a few boards, it isn't that hard really but it takes time.

Thanks for your hints.
I thought that using a mounting plate attached to the hull, rather than the fin box would prevent the worst scenario: breaking the fin box.

All I wanted to know is if I can safely use fiberglas resin to glue the wood plate to the bottom hull or which adhesive is better for bonding wood to the hull..

If the plate comes off, no big deal: all I'll have lost or damaged a few $$ worth of material ( the self-made fiberglas reinforced wing assembly ), but I'll still be able to use the board for regular windsurfing, if the fin box is intact.

Also, can I attach the plate directly on the hull surface or do I have to scrape off the gel coat first, for a stronger bond?

Thanks

Francone

It's really tempting to build your own. But really it's better to buy a used foil and board and learn on it and sell it to your mate once you've learned.
Building your own and learning to fly is kinda like saying " I wanna be a pilot and fly planes let's build one like the Wright bros did.... " Yea, It's totally doable, but remember guys like Plummet have 90th percentile determination, focus and methodology.
You have to ask yourself :do I want to foil, or muck around in the shop...

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Francone said..

Thanks for your hints.
I thought that using a mounting plate attached to the hull, rather than the fin box would prevent the worst scenario: breaking the fin box.

All I wanted to know is if I can safely use fiberglas resin to glue the wood plate to the bottom hull or which adhesive is better for bonding wood to the hull..

If the plate comes off, no big deal: all I'll have lost or damaged a few $$ worth of material ( the self-made fiberglas reinforced wing assembly ), but I'll still be able to use the board for regular windsurfing, if the fin box is intact.

Also, can I attach the plate directly on the hull surface or do I have to scrape off the gel coat first, for a stronger bond?

Thanks

Francone

I am not sure what you mean by attaching the foil on the fin box??? Do you already have a foil? If so, what sort of mounting system is it (i.e, deep tuttle, 4 holes plate or KF box)?

If you are attempting to glue a plate directly onto the laminate, it is most likely that your board will delaminate with a high chance of your foil ending at he bottom of the ocean.

As Tom said, don't muck around too much if you don't have the skills, determination and access to the right tools. It will end up costing way more in the end.

I don't want to discourage you but if you still want to do it yourself, here is what I would suggest:

1: choose a foil with a 4 holes mounting system
2: get an off cut shaft from a SUP paddle (most likely free from your local SUP shop)
3: find out where you are gonna mount the foil on the board
4: using a hole saw a tad bigger than the shaft of the paddle you got then drill through your board.

Note: the most adequate would be to add a PVC foam mandrel (in this case you would get a mandrel at least 1.5 times bigger than the paddle shaft). Not mandatory but will greatly reduce risk of foam compression.

5: from the paddle shaft, cut 4 pieces long enough to go through the board (cut them a bit longer so you can then sand them flush the hull and deck level.
6:Prepare some resin with Qcell and glue the pieces of shaft through the 4 holes
7:Sand the pieces of shaft flush with deck and hull
8:Tape around the shaft and fill up with a mix of resin and Qcell (can even add fiberglass strands)

Note: at this stage you can also laminate a layer of fiberglass to cover the 4 holes. This will avoid cracking between the glue and the EPS, avoiding water ingress into the core.

7: Once it has set, drill through some holes big enough to bolt your foil through (M6 or M8)

Note: you could even do 6 or 8 holes, giving you the option to adjust mast position.

Good luck

Select to expand quote

Livit said..

Francone said..

Thanks for your hints.
I thought that using a mounting plate attached to the hull, rather than the fin box would prevent the worst scenario: breaking the fin box.

All I wanted to know is if I can safely use fiberglas resin to glue the wood plate to the bottom hull or which adhesive is better for bonding wood to the hull..

If the plate comes off, no big deal: all I'll have lost or damaged a few $$ worth of material ( the self-made fiberglas reinforced wing assembly ), but I'll still be able to use the board for regular windsurfing, if the fin box is intact.

Also, can I attach the plate directly on the hull surface or do I have to scrape off the gel coat first, for a stronger bond?

Thanks

Francone

I am not sure what you mean by attaching the foil on the fin box??? Do you already have a foil? If so, what sort of mounting system is it (i.e, deep tuttle, 4 holes plate or KF box)?

If you are attempting to glue a plate directly onto the laminate, it is most likely that your board will delaminate with a high chance of your foil ending at he bottom of the ocean.

As Tom said, don't muck around too much if you don't have the skills, determination and access to the right tools. It will end up costing way more in the end.

I don't want to discourage you but if you still want to do it yourself, here is what I would suggest:

1: choose a foil with a 4 holes mounting system
2: get an off cut shaft from a SUP paddle (most likely free from your local SUP shop)
3: find out where you are gonna mount the foil on the board
4: using a hole saw a tad bigger than the shaft of the paddle you got then drill through your board.

Note: the most adequate would be to add a PVC foam mandrel (in this case you would get a mandrel at least 1.5 times bigger than the paddle shaft). Not mandatory but will greatly reduce risk of foam compression.

5: from the paddle shaft, cut 4 pieces long enough to go through the board (cut them a bit longer so you can then sand them flush the hull and deck level.
6:Prepare some resin with Qcell and glue the pieces of shaft through the 4 holes
7:Sand the pieces of shaft flush with deck and hull
8:Tape around the shaft and fill up with a mix of resin and Qcell (can even add fiberglass strands)

Note: at this stage you can also laminate a layer of fiberglass to cover the 4 holes. This will avoid cracking between the glue and the EPS, avoiding water ingress into the core.

7: Once it has set, drill through some holes big enough to bolt your foil through (M6 or M8)

Note: you could even do 6 or 8 holes, giving you the option to adjust mast position.

Good luck

Originally, I was thinking of using the fin, inserted into the fin box, as the mast for the foil, but then I realized I'd risk to break the fin box and I found another solution : glueing a plate to the hull ( unbolted) and screw the mast on it. As a mast I'd use a hardwood board the shape and size of the commercially available carbon masts, probably thicker, for added strength.

Your instructions are interesting, but I don't think I would want to drill through the board. This job can be best done by a professional. I am not that skilled in working around boards and I don't want to ruin the board.

I thought of the delamination problem, too, if I glue a plate , but there is a company (foilmount.com/products/foilmount-standard) selling a a glue-on ready-made foil plate for surfboards , using a very strong 3M double sided adhesive tape ( 3M 4941 VHB) which 3M claims is so strong that it can replace permanent welding, riveting , screwing, etc.

Foilmount tested their plate on a SUP board and they have a demo video showing a person hanging full weight on the glued mast ! If it works on flimsy SUPs without delaminating, the danger is probably less with a regular windsurfer which is sturdier.

I'll think it over

Thanks for your comments

Francone

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Francone said..

Your instructions are interesting, but I don't think I would want to drill through the board. This job can be best done by a professional. I am not that skilled in working around boards and I don't want to ruin the board.

Looks like it is exactly what you're gonna do (ruining the board) if you proceed to "gluing" anything to the bottom of your board....

VHB tape is 3M's answer to Sikaflex
and yields about same strength.
but in both products preparation is the key and using the correct primers is a must, as per both material data sheets.
also the thickness of the Glue/tape is important matched to the particular job.

using as in these foil mounts really only leaves you with the strength of the laminate of the board as your mount.

You need to reinforce the board internally for a long term connection. Surfboards only use a few thin layers of glass and low density foam.