What is so different about these kites? Yes, very agile, light, etc, but as far as its feel and skill required to fly it? If one can fly LEI kites, is it really that different to fly Clouds? Is there a learning curve?

very premature question from myself, can't foil at all (yet) but interested to hear what is the experience of other foilers.

I only have one Cloud - a 3.5m C5 - so I can't speak of the entire range of sizes or series. I really like mine, but they won't be to everyones taste. To me, they have a raw and primitive feel to them initially, but when you learn to fly them properly, you unlock their potential. You have to pay attention to them to fly them at their best. I've found it's the closest thing you'll get to true sailing with a kite. They have FULL de-power and sheeting errors will cause full luffing or choking in a fairly short sheeting range. If you don't already know how to trim your kite efficiently, these kites will either teach you how to, or have you selling it on Seabreeze. By comparison, many standard LEI kites are a bit dumbed down and kook proof in their handling. For example, when it comes to sheeting out to de-power them, most LEIs will still keep trucking along to some extent - even when you let go of the bar. Not the Cloud. It will just shut off. This is one of its pluses for foiling along with good drift and the ability to stay in the sky in light wind. I always come in from a foiling session on my Cloud feeling more tired than I do on my Ozone Catalysts. A 3.5m kite in 25kts is more exciting than it is relaxing. I'd love the 5.5m Cloud. I think that would be a fantastic kite for WA summers.

I'm sure other people that own different size or model Clouds will have their own views on what they like about their kites.

People who like them, LOVE them. Then there's everyone else. ;-) They fly quite different, not for everyone, as swavek says, fair number of ex cloud riders out there who tried them and moved on.

I had a 17m C1 before foiling. Flew in almost no wind, has to be lightest SLE kite out there. But not great upwind performance and a scary high end -- landing in 18kt+ was iffy to hold it down.

I also had a 8m C1 for a short while, again pre foil. I used it maybe 10 sessions, maybe not enough to properly get used to it. I rode it from 18kt to 30+ ... in high wind, it would luff and snap so loud people on the beach would be turning their heads. The doable wind range was wide, but a small sweet spot where it was ideal. From online discussions, seems the hardcore cloud riders often have the full range of kites in increments of 1m or less! My main issue was I found it quite surgey in gusty wind, with kite falling back and surging forward. Overall I didn't like the "active" flying, I prefer a "park and ride" / "set and forget" style wave kite personally. But to each their own, seems to work great for lots of riders.

I do really appreciate the style of the company and owner (Greg), with trying things out, stripping down to basics, going with what he likes no matter what the mainstream thinks ... interesting that he's now added a single strut kite to the lineup.

I don't think there is that much of a learning curve as opposed to a preference curve.

I originally bought a 14.5m C2 as replacement for a 17m Edge for light wind riding and use in the surf. It was like I went from a 17m kite to a 12m kite in terms of handling but I still had the low end I was after plus incredible drift. At this stage I was using a slingshot bar.

Only downside was dropping the 14.5m in surf nearly always involved a swim in.

I slowly replaced all my kites larger kites the equivalent C2's and kept some smaller three strutters for big days.

Greg took up foiling and produced the .5 series and 3.5, 5.5 and 8.5 were stunning kites on surfboards or foil for my weight. Not so great on TT's.

And by this stage I was using his CCS bar which is just a very very simple and sensible bar. There is no trim and there is almost no weight. There is choke, sweet spot, de-power.

Greg then produced the D's. I personally think he found his OMG moment with these kites. Brilliant drift and turning, good consistent power through the wind window. Great kites on a foil, surfboard and now, the TT (I am now getting some nice 5m jumps from 13.4m down to the 6.2 with pillow soft landings).

Wind range is decent too, last year I kited from 7 odd knots on a foil, up to 50 knots on the 3.5m and a TT.

Few of my mates tried them and the complaints usually ran along the lines of "it feels weird" or their too fast.

Another mate bought my old 12m C2, and then my 9 C2. He loved them enough to buy four D's.

My advice if you are interested in Clouds is to buy a second hand C2 or .5 for surfboard or foil riding (I have not seen a second hand D yet). They come up occasionally on seabreeze in the 500 to 600 mark.

Looks like the best chance to like it is to get my hands on D0 series.

D1 will be with a single strut but single bladder - this is impractical simplicity to me. Noticed Cloud spare bladders are $US140 now, single bladder will probably be more and it will be impossible to get anything after market.

I was lucky and bought a couple used Cloud D kites off someone when I was back in Canada. Much smoother and refined than the previous models. My 13.4 has awesome low end. As soon as I can feel a modest pull body dragging there's enough wind for me to loop and get going. Nearly never drops out of the sky and I think there's unjust paranoia about relaunching the cloud as it relaunches just fine if there's even barely enough wind to get going. I'd say it has a usable range from 7-15 knots and is light and playful throughout. I love that when I touch the canopy to the water by mistake foiling along it gracefully lifts off without even stopping foiling. My 8.0 Cloud D is probably my most used kite 11-low 20s is great. Both kites pack down to almost nothing. The 13.4m is 2.3kg which is slightly lighter and packs down smaller than my 5m Switch Element 4 3-strut.

If i could I'd get smaller clouds with a single strut as I've had a 3.7 invert on me in the air which could be terrifying in the wrong situation. I think the big clouds are fine without a strut.

I have two Cloud D's (4.8m & 8.0m) and would say they are super easy to fly (probably the easiest of any kite I've owned - Slingshot, Naish, Cabrinha, Liquid Force).

They are very nimble and responsive, but don't yank you off the ground or your edge as quickly as other kites. The drift and on/off is really impressive. As mentioned above, its easier to tell if your sheeting is optimal or not, as they luff like a sail (whereas struts make your imperfect sheeting less visible in other kites). I've only had a few sessions on mine, but liked them straight away and they make foiling way easier then with my Pivots or LF kites.

One warning, be careful self launching the strutless kites in high wind, as they are so light they take off very easily (even with sand on the canopy). Fortunately the total de-power means that you don't have to stress if your kite takes off before you're ready!

Hi.
I`m a cloud fan.
Once using Cloud kites, its hard using anything else.
But I`d say their only great for foiling, and for free-ride style foiling.
Not for high speed foiling , and not really for the very light wind foiling (under 7knots)
But for free-ride style foiling, Clouds are awesome. and can use the small kites at light wind.
Here`s me having a play with the older C model, 3.5m at Broadwater, GoldCoast


Cheers, Oyvind.

Nice! What foil you riding?

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OyvindN said..
Hi.
I`m a cloud fan.
Once using Cloud kites, its hard using anything else.
But I`d say their only great for foiling, and for free-ride style foiling.
Not for high speed foiling , and not really for the very light wind foiling (under 7knots)
But for free-ride style foiling, Clouds are awesome. and can use the small kites at light wind.
Here`s me having a play with the older C model, 3.5m at Broadwater, GoldCoast

Cheers, Oyvind.

I would agree that the V2 and V3 models were best suited to foiling or riding something with a huge planing area (surfboard or a door). The D's (V4) are a vast improvement over C's. I use them for everything now (surfboard, foiling, TT, jumping etc).

Definitely not a high speed kite or a brilliant upwind kite, but I have more general success in low wind with my 13.4m Cloud on 30m lines than I did my Chrono's.

Might be time to bring out the Chrono's again and do a rough comparison with the Cloud.

BT, hope you like the Chronos so I can buy some of your Ds.

I love my Clouds but for my lower end wind range (less than 9 knots) I have a foil kite that is much less likely to drop out of the sky. I replaced my Cloud 13.5 with a Concept Air 12.

I haven't found any issue keeping my 13.4 Cloud D in the sky in super light winds. I feel safer not dropping it out of the sky than my old foil kites ( at least if it falls out away from shore it's a more comfortable assisted swim back.). I did touch a wing tip in barely foilable conditions and it took me a minute or two to get it relaunched but I don't know of any other kites that would have actively taken off and flown again in such light winds.

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oldbones said..
Nice! What foil you riding?

Thx.
It`s 100cm Ketos foil, with WaveXL front wing, and XS back wing.
The board is Horue, nice and light, only 1.5kg.
Here`s another video, using the 10.4 D cloud at light wind:

Cheers

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Bletti said..
I haven't found any issue keeping my 13.4 Cloud D in the sky in super light winds. I feel safer not dropping it out of the sky than my old foil kites ( at least if it falls out away from shore it's a more comfortable assisted swim back.). I did touch a wing tip in barely foilable conditions and it took me a minute or two to get it relaunched but I don't know of any other kites that would have actively taken off and flown again in such light winds.

I never have a problem keeping my D up! I always pump it really hard too. As I'm getting older it's a bit slower to relaunch but it's still got great overall performance and impressive bar feel

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Youngbreezy said..

Bletti said..
I haven't found any issue keeping my 13.4 Cloud D in the sky in super light winds. I feel safer not dropping it out of the sky than my old foil kites ( at least if it falls out away from shore it's a more comfortable assisted swim back.). I did touch a wing tip in barely foilable conditions and it took me a minute or two to get it relaunched but I don't know of any other kites that would have actively taken off and flown again in such light winds.

I never have a problem keeping my D up! I always pump it really hard too. As I'm getting older it's a bit slower to relaunch but it's still got great overall performance and impressive bar feel

But do you fly to left or the right?

I only have the smaller size D but I work it really hard for a great bottom end

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bigtone667 said..

But do you fly to left or the right?

Just to the left, my D definitely doesn't go both ways

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Youngbreezy said..
I only have the smaller size D but I work it really hard for a great bottom end

Funny!

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Youngbreezy said..

bigtone667 said..

But do you fly to left or the right?

Just to the left, my D definitely doesn't go both ways

I found a shim at the back helps giving more lift.

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warwickl said..

Youngbreezy said..

bigtone667 said..

But do you fly to left or the right?

Just to the left, my D definitely doesn't go both ways

I found a shim at the back helps giving more lift.

Just make sure you use a shim with a sufficient flange so you don't lose it and end up with an awkward hospital visit.

Checked my shim today as no foiling around.
Discovered soft plastic fails so now replaced with a stainless steel washer - should be safe now providing controlable pitch and roll for maximum fun on my KFA firefish.

Just wondering in regards other brands single strut kites.
Have had Cloud C2 9-12-17 m
Newer Ds and single strut models sound excellent.
Have had the Naish Trips 8-10-12m no strut.
Currently trying Naish Boxer
9-11m single centre strut.
So far only on strapless surfboard in the waves.
Sheet and go power.More responsive but slightly more forgiving than the Trip.
Great depower,nice drift, but can be strangled if not paying attention to sheeting in to hard for to long.
Definitely not a forgiving as a full strutted kite.
Really have to fly the boxer as the Clouds.
The Boxer Should prove to be a great foil kite or surfboard or at a pitch TTip.
Btw I have no affiliation with this brand just trying them as an option mainly because Clouds are so hard to acquire in Aus.Unfortunately.
Had to buy via a friend in US last time.
Naish Boxer seems work well.
Just hope to add some additional feedback when I finally get the right conditions when foiling.

Leigh, I decided to whip out the 17m C2 today. I have only been flying D's in the past year.

I think the 13.4D has almost the same bottom end as the 17m, but also performs 200% better.

If you get the opportunity to fly a D, i think you will be impressed by the improvements.

Pretty amazing.
So the C2 17m is similar power wise to the
Cloud D 13.4m
Over 3.5m smaller.
Probably a lot faster through the window.
Let me know if you hear of any D's available.

The D is the ticket. Total refinement from the C series. Most likely able to self land easy enough, which I found really hard and generally had to walk up the safety. Looking at all of Greg's clips the D looks much smoother as well. It is a shame that he does not sell here in Oz, they are amazing kites to travel with as they pack down to nothing. Perhaps as his business grows a tad more he will be willing to sort that out, or get a rep here to deal directly. Bigtone,, maybe it's time you became a Rep ;)

Could be a good call Dafish.
BT are you listening?
Hahaha

I have a 12m Cloud and 17M cloud and CCS Bar available for sale if anyone is interested. Both used twice so Brand New.