Just a quick question regarding kite sizes for foiling. I'm about to start learning to foil next week on a 54" Dwarfcraft and Hover Glide set up. I'm 81kg and will be learning in the Perth metro area. Currently, my smallest kite is a 9m Catalyst. Will a 6m kite be suitable in an average Perth sea breeze (18 - 21kts) as I gain more experience on the foil - or would a 7m be more useful? Thanks in advance.

Depends on what the top end is you expect to foil in. I'm getting over done on my 6 around 25 knots.
So I will be adding a 4 shortly.

So.....
9,7,5 quiver would be good.
Or 9,6 and maybe 4 later.

Thanks for the reply Plummet. At what wind strength does the 6m become a viable option for you? 16 or 17kts? Or less? I would imagine that in the early stages of my foiling career, 25kts will be pushing the envelope for what I'd want to foil in. A mate has a 5m Cabrinha Radar he's looking to sell so I might consider that instead of a 6m. That way, a 7m can be added if the 5m to 9m gap is too big. Thanks again.

I know this is very individual and dependent on skill level, conditions, foil, how fast you want to learn, if you don't mind having a training session vs. an ideal scenario, etc.

So just an example if this helps. I am using my 12m kite in just under and just over 10 knots. 10m from 12 knots, 9m from 14 knots, 7 from 16-17 knots, 6m (old Reo which is more like a 5m) from just over 20 knots to mid 20s then getting overdone. I have been foiling a year now, going into toeside and staying that way and then turning back into heelside. Trying foil tacks now but long way to go. So just to give you an idea what skill level I am at. On a mid aspect carbon foil (which is more fun but slightly harder to ride than the LF fish I started on). Still a lot of crashes hence slightly more power hungry than when consistently foiling (could then get away with smaller kite sizes a few knots earlier). So the extra power makes it easier in the beginning but is also limiting as I get a bit too fast e.g. going downwind and need to push the brakes at times or emergency crash. I am 70kg.

I feel a 5m if you get one at a good price is gold and at the same time you may want to fill the gap and get a 7m too. That is if you are planning to be out a lot and in every wind thus maximising the time on the water. I don't like being under or overpowered on a foil but it it possible if you are prepared for some out of control sessions. All part of a steeper learning curve ;-)

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RussKraut said..
I know this is very individual and dependent on skill level, conditions, foil, how fast you want to learn, if you don't mind having a training session vs. an ideal scenario, etc.

So just an example if this helps. I am using my 12m kite in just under and just over 10 knots. 10m from 12 knots, 9m from 14 knots, 7 from 16-17 knots, 6m (old Reo which is more like a 5m) from just over 20 knots to mid 20s then getting overdone. I have been foiling a year now, going into toeside and staying that way and then turning back into heelside. Trying foil tacks now but long way to go. So just to give you an idea what skill level I am at. On a mid aspect carbon foil (which is more fun but slightly harder to ride than the LF fish I started on). Still a lot of crashes hence slightly more power hungry than when consistently foiling (could then get away with smaller kite sizes a few knots earlier). So the extra power makes it easier in the beginning but is also limiting as I get a bit too fast e.g. going downwind and need to push the brakes at times or emergency crash. I am 70kg.

I feel a 5m if you get one at a good price is gold and at the same time you may want to fill the gap and get a 7m too. That is if you are planning to be out a lot and in every wind thus maximising the time on the water. I don't like being under or overpowered on a foil but it it possible if you are prepared for some out of control sessions. All part of a steeper learning curve ;-)

Thanks heaps for that RK. Just the sort of info I was after. You're 10kg lighter than me but I can apply what you're using to my weight pretty easily.

I do want to pretty much foil in all but the most nuclear winds for at least the next 4-6 months, hence the question regarding small kites. I normally have just a 2 kite quiver of a 9 and a 12 but my 12 has now died so the 9 is currently it. Given my foil board is due to arrive this Tuesday, rather than getting a replacement for the 12, I thought the 6m would be the more useful size as I imagine a 9m on a foil gives me close to the wind range of a 12 and a twintip. There's hopefully at least 6 weeks of sea breezes left for the season. After that, it's time to shop for a 12m for the Autumn doldrums.

My 6m is also a old reo. I'll get up with a loop fest around 16knots to 25 knots.

Now its worthwhile stating that it depends what you want to do foiling. If you want to jump and go fast then you will use bigger kites. if you want to ride waves and swells then its the smallest kite you can plane on.

I've had my 8m catalyst up in 25 knots jumping and its sweet for that on the foil. But you cant ride a wave. You are over powered for that.

9/5m with a few to adding a 7 later would work. but there will be a gap around the 16-20 mark that could be over or underdone depend on the kite you have up.

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Plummet said..
My 6m is also a old reo. I'll get up with a loop fest around 16knots to 25 knots.

Now its worthwhile stating that it depends what you want to do foiling. If you want to jump and go fast then you will use bigger kites. if you want to ride waves and swells then its the smallest kite you can plane on.

I've had my 8m catalyst up in 25 knots jumping and its sweet for that on the foil. But you cant ride a wave. You are over powered for that.

9/5m with a few to adding a 7 later would work. but there will be a gap around the 16-20 mark that could be over or underdone depend on the kite you have up.

At the moment, strapless free riding is what I want to do (I'm another of the many Drexler fanatics). Speed /racing is not a priority at all. Waves would certainly be a long term goal. Thanks for the useful reply. Maybe a 6 will be a better choice with a 4m down the track when the skills improve.

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DukeSilver said..

Plummet said..
My 6m is also a old reo. I'll get up with a loop fest around 16knots to 25 knots.

Now its worthwhile stating that it depends what you want to do foiling. If you want to jump and go fast then you will use bigger kites. if you want to ride waves and swells then its the smallest kite you can plane on.

I've had my 8m catalyst up in 25 knots jumping and its sweet for that on the foil. But you cant ride a wave. You are over powered for that.

9/5m with a few to adding a 7 later would work. but there will be a gap around the 16-20 mark that could be over or underdone depend on the kite you have up.

At the moment, strapless free riding is what I want to do (I'm another of the many Drexler fanatics). Speed /racing is not a priority at all. Waves would certainly be a long term goal. Thanks for the useful reply. Maybe a 6 will be a better choice with a 4m down the track when the skills improve.

Then go small. Note in the Drexler videos he is usually on a 3.5m cloud in around 25 knots.

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Plummet said..

DukeSilver said..

Plummet said..
My 6m is also a old reo. I'll get up with a loop fest around 16knots to 25 knots.

Now its worthwhile stating that it depends what you want to do foiling. If you want to jump and go fast then you will use bigger kites. if you want to ride waves and swells then its the smallest kite you can plane on.

I've had my 8m catalyst up in 25 knots jumping and its sweet for that on the foil. But you cant ride a wave. You are over powered for that.

9/5m with a few to adding a 7 later would work. but there will be a gap around the 16-20 mark that could be over or underdone depend on the kite you have up.

At the moment, strapless free riding is what I want to do (I'm another of the many Drexler fanatics). Speed /racing is not a priority at all. Waves would certainly be a long term goal. Thanks for the useful reply. Maybe a 6 will be a better choice with a 4m down the track when the skills improve.

Then go small. Note in the Drexler videos he is usually on a 3.5m cloud in around 25 knots.

Yes, amazing little kite the 3.5 Cloud. I've been reading about the liquid Force Solo which comes in a 6.5m. Supposedly a good foiling kite due to low weight and big depower range.

I think you are on the right track. light kites with less struts fly better in lighter winds, loop better, drift better and relaunch better. All things of use to hydrofoiling trickery.

I recently got a 7 rebel which i thought might be good on the foil. It is for high wind jumping but with all 5 struts extra reinforcement its just too heavy. Its a **** in light winds as it doesn't relaunch and is terrible looping and drifting, By comparison my old 8m catalyst is a easily relaunches and loops sweet. The 6m reo is even better at looping, drifting and relaunching. The 4m i'm getting is an ozone ono 1 strut trainer kite. I've flown one in the kite buggy and its a looping freak. I can't wait.

So the technique i'm using to get up and going in light winds on the 8m and 6m is a back loop, front loop like and infinity sign ?. Back loop gets you up and front loop gets you on the foil.

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Plummet said..
I think you are on the right track. light kites with less struts fly better in lighter winds, loop better, drift better and relaunch better. All things of use to hydrofoiling trickery.

I recently got a 7 rebel which i thought might be good on the foil. It is for high wind jumping but with all 5 struts extra reinforcement its just too heavy. Its a **** in light winds as it doesn't relaunch and is terrible looping and drifting, By comparison my old 8m catalyst is a easily relaunches and loops sweet. The 6m reo is even better at looping, drifting and relaunching. The 4m i'm getting is an ozone ono 1 strut trainer kite. I've flown one in the kite buggy and its a looping freak. I can't wait.

So the technique i'm using to get up and going in light winds on the 8m and 6m is a back loop, front loop like and infinity sign ?. Back loop gets you up and front loop gets you on the foil.

Yes, A Reo or Cat is high on my list as well. Love my 2015 Cat. Best kite I've owned. Agree with the 5 strut pitfalls. Was considering a cheap 6m Switchblade but I don't think it will be the best choice when compared with a lighter kite.

Will try your "infinity sining" method when I go out for the first time tomorrow. Forecast is for moderate 12 - 14kt winds so I may need every ounce of power I can wring from the 9m.

It's funny how your kite quiver changes. I used run a 9/12/17mtr set up.
But since foiling (And still have a long way to go) my kites are now 7/9/12mtr Liquid force Wow.
3 struts kites - for me the best cross over compromise. (Not super light - but lighter than the my previous standard 5 struts core kites - but rigid enough to push their upper limits).
Foil/wave surf with great drift but still plenty of boost to play on the TT.
Lately I've been concertrating of foiling and spending most of my time on the 7m kite. Just loving the way it responds and loops. Then I used the 9m (which used to be my smallest kite) and it felt like a bus - just that much slower that it was really noticeable. Something that surprised me, considering the 12 & 17m kites used to get the most work.

Hey Plummet - thanks for the picture of your chopping block 1/2 foot strap. Ended making one and it's gold.
Can I ask you what size kites you are riding in the different wind ranges in the surf ( I know it's a personal question but what weight are you - as I'm trying to gauge my kites against my 85kgs for the wind ranges)

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spartacus said..
It's funny how your kite quiver changes. I used run a 9/12/17mtr set up.
But since foiling (And still have a long way to go) my kites are now 7/9/12mtr Liquid force Wow.
3 struts kites - for me the best cross over compromise. (Not super light - but lighter than the my previous standard 5 struts core kites - but rigid enough to push their upper limits).
Foil/wave surf with great drift but still plenty of boost to play on the TT.
Lately I've been concertrating of foiling and spending most of my time on the 7m kite. Just loving the way it responds and loops. Then I used the 9m (which used to be my smallest kite) and it felt like a bus - just that much slower that it was really noticeable. Something that surprised me, considering the 12 & 17m kites used to get the most work.

Hey Plummet - thanks for the picture of your chopping block 1/2 foot strap. Ended making one and it's gold.
Can I ask you what size kites you are riding in the different wind ranges in the surf ( I know it's a personal question but what weight are you - as I'm trying to gauge my kites against my 85kgs for the wind ranges)

I agree Spartacus. Prior to taking up the foil I was running a 2 kite quiver of a 9 and a 12. When my 12 was recently damaged beyond repair, I was panicking trying to find another. A few weeks later I started to foil and was up and riding in 12 kts on my 9m. I couldn't get going on a surfboard and my 12 in that wind (80kg). Now I'm looking for smaller kites. I just picked up a BRM Cloud 3.5m for 20kts+ and will be finishing off my foil quiver with a 6m wave kite or single strut for 15-20kts. I'll probably get another 12 one day if I ever feel the urge to jump on a surfboard or TT again - which is hard to see at this point in time.

12 chrono 8-13 knots
8 catalyst 10-20 knots
6 reo 16-30 knots (too powered for waves after 23 knots
4m uno on order......

77kg.

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DukeSilver said..
Just a quick question regarding kite sizes for foiling. I'm about to start learning to foil next week on a 54" Dwarfcraft and Hover Glide set up. I'm 81kg and will be learning in the Perth metro area. Currently, my smallest kite is a 9m Catalyst. Will a 6m kite be suitable in an average Perth sea breeze (18 - 21kts) as I gain more experience on the foil - or would a 7m be more useful? Thanks in advance.

I used a 5m a lot last summer in Perth. Mainly on 21m lines (18knots +) but occasionally with extensions (+6m or even +15m). Awesome stuff.

For what it's worth, I am 82ish kilos and have been using this years 10 Reo as my biggest kite with my free style strapless foil setup. Can get down to about the 7 to 9 knots but it gets tricky if any current comes into play. 10 knots its fantastic. 14 knots I use last years 8 mt Reo and can ride that to 20 knots. Over 20 I use a 4 Uno but still have not had too many sessions on it yet. A 6 would be handy for sure in the 18 to 22 knot range but it's not a deal breaker. I have just added line extensions to one bar giving me 30 meters, and this should help with the really low wind.

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dafish said..
For what it's worth, I am 82ish kilos and have been using this years 10 Reo as my biggest kite with my free style strapless foil setup. Can get down to about the 7 to 9 knots but it gets tricky if any current comes into play. 10 knots its fantastic. 14 knots I use last years 8 mt Reo and can ride that to 20 knots. Over 20 I use a 4 Uno but still have not had too many sessions on it yet. A 6 would be handy for sure in the 18 to 22 knot range but it's not a deal breaker. I have just added line extensions to one bar giving me 30 meters, and this should help with the really low wind.

I wanted to get a Reo for my 6m but there were none for sale in my price range so I opted for a 2014 Ozone Catalyst 6m. I've had this for about 6 weeks now and have really enjoyed it for the 15 - 20kt range. I can see that this and my 3.5m C5 Cloud will be my 2 most used kited over the Perth summer. I really don't know if I'll ever use a 12m tube kite for foiling. I can get going on my 9m in 11 - 12kts and I think trying to get a 12m tube kite to fly in anything below that becomes a difficult proposition due to weight. 3.5m/6m/9m seems like a good foiling quiver for the majority of conditions I'll encounter in WA.

my experience has been that the wind speed should be in the lower 1/3 of the particular kite's wind range for most enjoyment on foil.