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Tamble said..

When I was teaching the kids to drive I always made them have a go at activating the ABS (after checking the rear mirror) so they knew what it felt like.

When Dad taught me to drive, he ripped the hand brake on without warning me - "to teach me skid recovery"
It was a good lesson that sunk in real quick - but I would have preferred it wasn't done on West Coast Highway / City Beach on a Saturday arvo.

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cisco said..
When do you replace a car?

When it is knackered. Sixty odd posts to come to that conclusion. Unbarluckingfievable.

Gee, sitting and having a drink with you must be fun. 10 minutes in and we would have solved all the worlds problems and have nothing else to talk about.

Sadly, I think we have discovered that X series Falcons are probably not the best in an accident, but if you live in a quiet area, what are the chances of having an accident anyway?

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FormulaNova said..

...

Sadly, I think we have discovered that X series Falcons are probably not the best in an accident, but if you live in a quiet area, what are the chances of having an accident anyway?

They're called "accidents" for a reason. They happen, frequently, by pure dumb bad luck for one or multiple participants. It's wishful thinking and self delusion to think that you can avoid accidents by being careful, and skilful. You can tilt the odds in your favour, and reduce the likelihood. You can't eliminate the possibility. That's why we have air bags and stability control and ABS and good tyres and stuff.

I had a Subaru Outback for 12 years. Excellent vehicle and as far as I can remember the only mishap was a couple of flat tyres and a flat battery.

My new Outback has every gizmo under the sun. All the passive safety stuff I never notice. I haven't had any incidents that required safety stuff, ever. There's always a first time.

The convenience/safety features are fantastic:
- reversing camera (I wish I had 360 camera)
- phone integrated into the car. The phone is stashed away so there is no temptation to fiddle with it, All the useful stuff is accessible with voice commands.
- adaptive cruise control. Set the time gap to the car in front (1-4 seconds) and the car does all the accelerating and braking by itself. It's automated, but engages the driver enough that you don't zone out and forget to drive.
- pin number on the door. Disable the fob and lock it in the car and go out for a session. Tap in a pin to unlock the doors. There are a couple of processes you need to know to re-enable the fob and/or start the car.

My theory in cutting the chance of having an accident by 50%

I want a car I can drive at twice the speed limit every where.
Thus cutting the travel time in half.
A 2 hour trip is now 1 hour, so in that second hour I'm not driving I will not have an accident.

Unless the paddy wagon has a crash

As for replacing a car, I leave it up to the company I work for.

PS, my last ticket was 1993 (many of you not even born that long ago)

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Gorgo said..

FormulaNova said..

...

Sadly, I think we have discovered that X series Falcons are probably not the best in an accident, but if you live in a quiet area, what are the chances of having an accident anyway?

They're called "accidents" for a reason. They happen, frequently, by pure dumb bad luck for one or multiple participants. It's wishful thinking and self delusion to think that you can avoid accidents by being careful, and skilful. You can tilt the odds in your favour, and reduce the likelihood. You can't eliminate the possibility. That's why we have air bags and stability control and ABS and good tyres and stuff.

Yes, I agree. They are 'accidents' but a lot of people put themselves into harms way, way more than I prefer to.

For instance, a good friend drives too close to the car in front. His car sometimes even warns him that he is too close. If he runs up the back of one, he will call it an accident.

Other people only see the car in front of them, and when something else happens, they too call it an accident.

I even think some people are more likely to have cars run into the back of them. These too are accidents, but sometimes there are things you can do that make you more visible to cars that are approaching you.

But, I do agree. Sometimes bad things happen and there is no avoiding them, and you are right in that car safety features can mean the difference between life and death.

I do get a bit paranoid sometimes though, or just fed up. Sometimes I will drive at 10kmh less than the speed limit in the left hand lane, just so that I don't have to put up with people fighting for the last kmh in the right hand lane.

There was a comment in a 'learn how to drive book' from years ago where the friend of the author suggests that people would drive much safer and far more carefully if there was a big spike sticking up from the centre of their steering wheel. I think he had a point.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Gorgo said..

FormulaNova said..

...

Sadly, I think we have discovered that X series Falcons are probably not the best in an accident, but if you live in a quiet area, what are the chances of having an accident anyway?

They're called "accidents" for a reason. They happen, frequently, by pure dumb bad luck for one or multiple participants. It's wishful thinking and self delusion to think that you can avoid accidents by being careful, and skilful. You can tilt the odds in your favour, and reduce the likelihood. You can't eliminate the possibility. That's why we have air bags and stability control and ABS and good tyres and stuff.

Yes, I agree. They are 'accidents' but a lot of people put themselves into harms way, way more than I prefer to.

For instance, a good friend drives too close to the car in front. His car sometimes even warns him that he is too close. If he runs up the back of one, he will call it an accident.

Other people only see the car in front of them, and when something else happens, they too call it an accident.

I even think some people are more likely to have cars run into the back of them. These too are accidents, but sometimes there are things you can do that make you more visible to cars that are approaching you.

But, I do agree. Sometimes bad things happen and there is no avoiding them, and you are right in that car safety features can mean the difference between life and death.

I do get a bit paranoid sometimes though, or just fed up. Sometimes I will drive at 10kmh less than the speed limit in the left hand lane, just so that I don't have to put up with people fighting for the last kmh in the right hand lane.

There was a comment in a 'learn how to drive book' from years ago where the friend of the author suggests that people would drive much safer and far more carefully if there was a big spike sticking up from the centre of their steering wheel. I think he had a point.

I don't think the term "accident" is used any more. It's now termed a "Collision" because it's almost never an accident. One or more parties have done something to cause the event. There're almost no genuine "accidents".

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bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

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Chris 249 said..

bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

Yes, its a strange view, but it seems to be common.

I even had a bit of a laugh yesterday. I saw a guy my age driving a 1994 commodore wagon, and I thought 'that guy's not doing so well', then I realised that I drive cars of a similar age

I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

It creates a dilemma for me though, as sometimes I think people do value you on these things, so do you buy something better so that people automatically think you are successful and therefore deal with you, or do you buy what you think is practical and risk not being judged fairly?

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FormulaNova said..

Chris 249 said..

bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

Yes, its a strange view, but it seems to be common.

I even had a bit of a laugh yesterday. I saw a guy my age driving a 1994 commodore wagon, and I thought 'that guy's not doing so well', then I realised that I drive cars of a similar age

I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

It creates a dilemma for me though, as sometimes I think people do value you on these things, so do you buy something better so that people automatically think you are successful and therefore deal with you, or do you buy what you think is practical and risk not being judged fairly?

Don't work with judges.

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FormulaNova said..

Chris 249 said..

bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

Yes, its a strange view, but it seems to be common.

I even had a bit of a laugh yesterday. I saw a guy my age driving a 1994 commodore wagon, and I thought 'that guy's not doing so well', then I realised that I drive cars of a similar age

I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

It creates a dilemma for me though, as sometimes I think people do value you on these things, so do you buy something better so that people automatically think you are successful and therefore deal with you, or do you buy what you think is practical and risk not being judged fairly?

What about if you are a self employed trade and buy a new ute that is reliable so you get to jobs and takes advantages of tax concessions are you a smart reliable tradie or are you making too much money?

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Chris 249 said..

bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

Yes, its a strange view, but it seems to be common.

I even had a bit of a laugh yesterday. I saw a guy my age driving a 1994 commodore wagon, and I thought 'that guy's not doing so well', then I realised that I drive cars of a similar age

I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

It creates a dilemma for me though, as sometimes I think people do value you on these things, so do you buy something better so that people automatically think you are successful and therefore deal with you, or do you buy what you think is practical and risk not being judged fairly?

Yep, you're right, it is an interesting dilemma and I can catch myself falling into the same trap. I tend to run buckets because they spend most of their time full of boards, boat bits, bikes and dogs, so when I went to business meetings I used to park around the corner out of sight.

I had a guy at work say he spent over $100k on his car and said "I can't afford to live closer than 90 minutes from work so I have to spend so much time in the car I need a good one". The odd thing was that if he'd run old bangers, he'd have been able to afford to live where he wanted to.

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Marsbars said..

FormulaNova said..

Chris 249 said..

bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

Yes, its a strange view, but it seems to be common.

I even had a bit of a laugh yesterday. I saw a guy my age driving a 1994 commodore wagon, and I thought 'that guy's not doing so well', then I realised that I drive cars of a similar age

I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

It creates a dilemma for me though, as sometimes I think people do value you on these things, so do you buy something better so that people automatically think you are successful and therefore deal with you, or do you buy what you think is practical and risk not being judged fairly?

What about if you are a self employed trade and buy a new ute that is reliable so you get to jobs and takes advantages of tax concessions are you a smart reliable tradie or are you making too much money?

Dunno. How often would an old ute have to break down before it started costing you more in lost jobs and reputation than you saved by not buying a new one? Looking back when I was running around in vans full of tools all day, we started out in old Kombis and ended up with new ones but I can't remember the old ones actually leaving us stranded on the way to a job. I seem to recall the new ones were bought to lift the image of the business and because they were more comfortable, which is fair enough.

I may be biased because I used to run around seeing clients literally back of Bourke in old bangers. I can't recall ever breaking down and missing an appointment in my old heaps. The only time I broke down was after I hired a new car out of Broken Hill. I got a lift back to an isolated town and then hitched a ride home in the back cab of a goods train, which was interesting but not a good way to see clients.

It is not worn out yet so I keep driving it.

Also it is presentable anywhere and certainly gives the observer the idea that the owner is professional at what he does.

By the way, it has never failed me. There is a lot to be said for farm machinery.

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Chris 249 said..

Marsbars said..

FormulaNova said..

Chris 249 said..

bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

Yes, its a strange view, but it seems to be common.

I even had a bit of a laugh yesterday. I saw a guy my age driving a 1994 commodore wagon, and I thought 'that guy's not doing so well', then I realised that I drive cars of a similar age

I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

It creates a dilemma for me though, as sometimes I think people do value you on these things, so do you buy something better so that people automatically think you are successful and therefore deal with you, or do you buy what you think is practical and risk not being judged fairly?

What about if you are a self employed trade and buy a new ute that is reliable so you get to jobs and takes advantages of tax concessions are you a smart reliable tradie or are you making too much money?

Dunno. How often would an old ute have to break down before it started costing you more in lost jobs and reputation than you saved by not buying a new one? Looking back when I was running around in vans full of tools all day, we started out in old Kombis and ended up with new ones but I can't remember the old ones actually leaving us stranded on the way to a job. I seem to recall the new ones were bought to lift the image of the business and because they were more comfortable, which is fair enough.

I may be biased because I used to run around seeing clients literally back of Bourke in old bangers. I can't recall ever breaking down and missing an appointment in my old heaps. The only time I broke down was after I hired a new car out of Broken Hill. I got a lift back to an isolated town and then hitched a ride home in the back cab of a goods train, which was interesting but not a good way to see clients.

Sorry my reply was more about being judged on the car you drive not when but def in my experience I would rather make payments on a new vehicle on the road than repairing one off it, diesel engines are great and can be reliable for a long time not so the rest of your running gear that doesn't get maintained like an engine.

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cisco said..
It is not worn out yet so I keep driving it.

Also it is presentable anywhere and certainly gives the observer the idea that the owner is professional at what he does.

By the way, it has never failed me. There is a lot to be said for farm machinery.

A good mate of mine had a 351 XD back in tha day and it was LETHAL , far from standard (engine) but he only ever chucked $5 of leaded in and the thing konked out going up practically any hill . And the door handles continually fell off ,
Aesthetically the biggest pile but paired with a mad pilot , made memorable times

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FormulaNova said..
I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

I see the same at my work, nursing staff, office staff, and other low income earners, driving beemers, mercs, sportscars or big landbruiser type 4wd's, unable to fit them in a standard parking bay, cant afford to service the car or buy tyres, scratching to put fuel in the tank, struggling to put beer in the fridge food on the table, and complaining about the hour and a half or so commute each way.

It takes me under 45 minutes to cover the same distance and a bit less than $4 to do the same trip, and they subsidise it!

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Chris 249 said..

I had a guy at work say he spent over $100k on his car

****in' how?!

I think I might be a bit out of touch with how much inflation has been going on in NZ/Australia. A Hilux was posted for sale in the NZ kite group... 1998, 300,000km, well-maintained and "rooly good condition" but they wanted $16,000 :o A quick look on the auction sites here turned up many 2007 or later Delica D5's with all the mod cons and half the mileage or less. Might have to import one when we go home for good...

I've got a 2002 Voxy that cost me $4,000 6 years ago, and I've put 120,000 km on the 60 it had when I got it. If I've spent more than $1,000 on repairs I'd be surprised -- air con compressor is the only one I remember.

If it's ever going to cost more than $2,000 to repair at one go, then I'll be getting another $4,000 family van.

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Kamikuza said..

Chris 249 said..

I had a guy at work say he spent over $100k on his car

****in' how?!

I think I might be a bit out of touch with how much inflation has been going on in NZ/Australia. A Hilux was posted for sale in the NZ kite group... 1998, 300,000km, well-maintained and "rooly good condition" but they wanted $16,000 :o A quick look on the auction sites here turned up many 2007 or later Delica D5's with all the mod cons and half the mileage or less. Might have to import one when we go home for good...

I've got a 2002 Voxy that cost me $4,000 6 years ago, and I've put 120,000 km on the 60 it had when I got it. If I've spent more than $1,000 on repairs I'd be surprised -- air con compressor is the only one I remember.

If it's ever going to cost more than $2,000 to repair at one go, then I'll be getting another $4,000 family van.

Yeah but a Delica(te)? Compare oranges to apples much?
Voxy - I'm surprised we don't see them as imports here... Anyone know why?

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HotBodMon said..

cisco said..
It is not worn out yet so I keep driving it.

Also it is presentable anywhere and certainly gives the observer the idea that the owner is professional at what he does.

By the way, it has never failed me. There is a lot to be said for farm machinery.

A good mate of mine had a 351 XD back in tha day and it was LETHAL , far from standard (engine) but he only ever chucked $5 of leaded in and the thing konked out going up practically any hill . And the door handles continually fell off ,
Aesthetically the biggest pile but paired with a mad pilot , made memorable times

I bet it was lethal and I bet it was a Cleveland 351 and I bet the rear end cut loose at the drop of a hat and totally out of balance.
The only V8 I would drop in one of these is a Windsor.

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cisco said..

HotBodMon said..

cisco said..
It is not worn out yet so I keep driving it.

Also it is presentable anywhere and certainly gives the observer the idea that the owner is professional at what he does.

By the way, it has never failed me. There is a lot to be said for farm machinery.

A good mate of mine had a 351 XD back in tha day and it was LETHAL , far from standard (engine) but he only ever chucked $5 of leaded in and the thing konked out going up practically any hill . And the door handles continually fell off ,
Aesthetically the biggest pile but paired with a mad pilot , made memorable times

I bet it was lethal and I bet it was a Cleveland 351 and I bet the rear end cut loose at the drop of a hat and totally out of balance.
The only V8 I would drop in one of these is a Windsor.

Back in the day my family sedan was a XD, Monza red, lowered, 351c, top loader, 9" disc rear end, very sedate car, nice rumble all the way to 7500rpm.
1993 it was traded on a 80 series GXL, the first of the 4.5 L petrol, fuel was cheap "back in the day"

So when to sell a car is when you have 1 point left on your licence :)

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Craig66 said..

So when to sell a car is when you have 1 point left on your licence :)

Good idea!

These days its too easy to go from full points to instant disqualification, so a fast car is not such a good idea now. I think if you can find one that sounds good and you like to drive at lowish speeds, its probably the way to go.

Well did not intend to replace my near perfect 2002 Fairmont wagon with only 170,000k having fitting new mufflers, Welsh plugs, roof lining and more.
But a 2015 low k Commodore Wagon was too hard to resist.
So now my Fairmont Wagon (always serviced) I have had since new will have to go
I hope this does not seem like an advertisement.

^^ NOoo ! @ 170K she still is a baby..and one of the last proper SW...Nooooooooooooo

Select to expand quote

Cambodge said..

FormulaNova said..

Gorgo said..

FormulaNova said..

...

Sadly, I think we have discovered that X series Falcons are probably not the best in an accident, but if you live in a quiet area, what are the chances of having an accident anyway?

They're called "accidents" for a reason. They happen, frequently, by pure dumb bad luck for one or multiple participants. It's wishful thinking and self delusion to think that you can avoid accidents by being careful, and skilful. You can tilt the odds in your favour, and reduce the likelihood. You can't eliminate the possibility. That's why we have air bags and stability control and ABS and good tyres and stuff.

Yes, I agree. They are 'accidents' but a lot of people put themselves into harms way, way more than I prefer to.

For instance, a good friend drives too close to the car in front. His car sometimes even warns him that he is too close. If he runs up the back of one, he will call it an accident.

Other people only see the car in front of them, and when something else happens, they too call it an accident.

I even think some people are more likely to have cars run into the back of them. These too are accidents, but sometimes there are things you can do that make you more visible to cars that are approaching you.

But, I do agree. Sometimes bad things happen and there is no avoiding them, and you are right in that car safety features can mean the difference between life and death.

I do get a bit paranoid sometimes though, or just fed up. Sometimes I will drive at 10kmh less than the speed limit in the left hand lane, just so that I don't have to put up with people fighting for the last kmh in the right hand lane.

There was a comment in a 'learn how to drive book' from years ago where the friend of the author suggests that people would drive much safer and far more carefully if there was a big spike sticking up from the centre of their steering wheel. I think he had a point.

I don't think the term "accident" is used any more. It's now termed a "Collision" because it's almost never an accident. One or more parties have done something to cause the event. There're almost no genuine "accidents".

But it's still a accident, unless it's intentional

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dmitri said..
^^ NOoo ! @ 170K she still is a baby..and one of the last proper SW...Nooooooooooooo

Yes still torn.
I am considering if I can sell - - what I would get is way less than it's TRUE value.

Select to expand quote

Buster fin said..


Yeah but a Delica(te)? Compare oranges to apples much?
Voxy - I'm surprised we don't see them as imports here... Anyone know why?

Nah, $16,000 can get you a whole lot more than a third of a million k's 20 year old car. That's the point. The car market in NZ is mental, and that particular vehicle is way over-valued.

Noah was the same thing, just different lights. Seen a couple in NZ but they're rare. They're only 2L though, while the Estima is 3 and supercharged so I guess anyone wanting an MPV would go for that (there are tax brackets that limit engine etc size here) but more soccer moms wanting a person mover goes for ... a Hilux :D

So the new old Surfs make it to NZ?

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Buster fin said..
So the new old Surfs make it to NZ?

Dunno, haven't been looking :D

Select to expand quote

Marsbars said..

FormulaNova said..

Chris 249 said..

bazz61 said..
trouble is in todays world you are judged on what you drive ...

If someone judges you by what you drive, they may not be worth worrying about. And it can be quite funny if such people think you're struggling.

Yes, its a strange view, but it seems to be common.

I even had a bit of a laugh yesterday. I saw a guy my age driving a 1994 commodore wagon, and I thought 'that guy's not doing so well', then I realised that I drive cars of a similar age

I find it weird that some people go out of their way to get an expensive car, even when they are scraping to get by. I guess image is more important for some people.

It creates a dilemma for me though, as sometimes I think people do value you on these things, so do you buy something better so that people automatically think you are successful and therefore deal with you, or do you buy what you think is practical and risk not being judged fairly?

What about if you are a self employed trade and buy a new ute that is reliable so you get to jobs and takes advantages of tax concessions are you a smart reliable tradie or are you making too much money?

My triton
paid $30.000
85,000 klm over 3 years
just had a trader offer me $23,000 , 7 year warranty fixed price servicing, road assistance etc, it's the cheapest form of reliable motoring basically free when accountant does his bit