My son is going into year 2 this year (7 years old). His school book list requires us to buy him the usual selection of pens, pencils, notepads etc.... and a calculator!

A bloody calculator!

I nearly fell off my chair when my missus told me. I've since discussed it with a few other parents who tend to agree that kids shouldn't need a calculator in year 2, but they don't seem to think it's a big deal. I'm really annoyed and plan to ring the school on Monday so they can explain why 7 year olds need a calculator.

Am I missing something? I just can't see how kids are meant to grow up with basic mental maths skills if they have a calculator from year 2.

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dirtyharry said..
My son is going into year 2 this year (7 years old). His school book list requires us to buy him the usual selection of pens, pencils, notepads etc.... and a calculator!

A bloody calculator!

I nearly fell off my chair when my missus told me. I've since discussed it with a few other parents who tend to agree that kids shouldn't need a calculator in year 2, but they don't seem to think it's a big deal. I'm really annoyed and plan to ring the school on Monday so they can explain why 7 year olds need a calculator.

Am I missing something? I just can't see how kids are meant to grow up with basic mental maths skills if they have a calculator from year 2.

I don't know for sure, I do remember though that there was a couple of years where they were required to have a particular scientific ( If that's the correct term) calculator that was bloody expensive only to need a different one a couple of years later. At least at home, I never saw them do any calculations that required anything other than a run of the mill calculator.

Mental maths! is that even a thing anymore?

I am 36 ys old, I remember quite well Calculators were only allowed when real physics kicked in when I was 15. Before that just makes the brain lazy to anything more complicated than a simple sum.

What about notebooks/Ipads etc been suggested/mandatory in schools? I don't agree with that either. Kids don't know how to write a simple text or phrase in pen anymore too.

I suspect the teachers themselves are bloody hopeless in maths, especially mental maths like tables. So it is an easy way out for the schools to just lump in a calculator to help out the teachers. In other words, to cover their assess!

In situations where a complicated calculations are involved, and precision is needed, then yes. But how often does a young amigo does a complicated calculation?

What about a laptop computers? It seems students are required to have one as well. The Gillard government promised every student will get one. What do they do with a computer? Do computers make students more clever?

Jup, normally you are close, but mate, on this statement below you are taking the pizzz yes for sure?
Primary school teachers hopeless in maths, Wouldn't even get to Uni Bachelor Of Arts degree if that was the case.

Jupiter quote
"I suspect the teachers themselves are bloody hopeless in maths, especially mental maths like tables. So it is an easy way out for the schools to just lump in a calculator to help out the teachers. In other words, to cover their assess! "

Your not missing a thing , completely wrong way to start schooling , relying on other, than your brain.
What I had from grade 5 , my 16 yr old hasn't got yet

Just tell him to use the one in his iPhone

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Jupiter said..
I suspect the teachers themselves are bloody hopeless in maths, especially mental maths like tables. So it is an easy way out for the schools to just lump in a calculator to help out the teachers. In other words, to cover their assess!

In situations where a complicated calculations are involved, and precision is needed, then yes. But how often does a young amigo does a complicated calculation?

What about a laptop computers? It seems students are required to have one as well. The Gillard government promised every student will get one. What do they do with a computer? Do computers make students more clever?

I suspect more likely a lot of parents are sending their kids to school thinking they'll learn everything there and don't have to teach and reinforce simple things like the times tables at home.

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mineral1 said..

Wouldn't even get to Uni Bachelor Of Arts degree if that was the case.

I have lost count of the number of hotel staff, glassies, cleaners, concierge, seamstresses, cab drivers, low income workers [and not forgetting minesite drillers, shotcrew and truckers ] who told me that thier B.A. degree made an excellent flyswat.


stephen

The misspellings and typos in the handouts my groms bring back from school has me seriously worried.
They might know how to use a computer, but not well enough to employ it's many and varied tools.

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mineral1 said..
Jup, normally you are close, but mate, on this statement below you are taking the pizzz yes for sure?
Primary school teachers hopeless in maths, Wouldn't even get to Uni Bachelor Of Arts degree if that was the case.

Jupiter quote
"I suspect the teachers themselves are bloody hopeless in maths, especially mental maths like tables. So it is an easy way out for the schools to just lump in a calculator to help out the teachers. In other words, to cover their assess! "

I suspect you oversold the qualifications and suitability of some teachers, mineral1.

When I was being interviewed for a shared room years ago. I met three young amigos from SA who also are hunting for accommodation. The conversation led to why they were in NT. Apparently they were rejected by the universities there on all the "hard" degrees because their marks were below average. So teaching was the last resort. You work that out.

I didn't know you need maths to do a Bachelor of Arts degree ?

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Jupiter said...

mineral1 said..
Jup, normally you are close, but mate, on this statement below you are taking the pizzz yes for sure?
Primary school teachers hopeless in maths, Wouldn't even get to Uni Bachelor Of Arts degree if that was the case.

Jupiter quote
"I suspect the teachers themselves are bloody hopeless in maths, especially mental maths like tables. So it is an easy way out for the schools to just lump in a calculator to help out the teachers. In other words, to cover their assess! "

I suspect you oversold the qualifications and suitability of some teachers, mineral1.

When I was being interviewed for a shared room years ago. I met three young amigos from SA who also are hunting for accommodation. The conversation led to why they were in NT. Apparently they were rejected by the universities there on all the "hard" degrees because their marks were below average. So teaching was the last resort. You work that out.

I didn't know you need maths to do a Bachelor of Arts degree ?

You must be from another planet mate . You clearly have NFI what teachers have to endure and how hard they work outside the classroom.

Some parents hand over an ill bred sack of $#it and expect teachers to hand back a genius. It doesn't work like that . I remember a few years ago , it was suggested by some that teachers should be responsible for teaching manners and the like .

Yep , some peeps really need to get their heads out of their a r s e h o l e s , and maybe walk a few feet in the shoes of others before opening that hole in their faces .

It's a really stressful job , not only do you have deal with the ill bred spawn , you have to deal with the breeders as well. It isn't easy and it isn't getting any easier. We should bring back the cane and the strap to help the teachers deal with some of the little sods .

^^^^^^ Gold

Do they specify a scientific calculator or just a normal one? Maybe the teachers is going to teach them trigonometry and the area of a circle and all kinds of other cool things that only calculators can do

I have been co-teaching a second year science course at Uni the last few years - it astounds me the number of students who do not even have a rudimentary grasp of mathematics. Scary.

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James said..

You must be from another planet mate . You clearly have NFI what teachers have to endure and how hard they work outside the classroom.

Some parents hand over an ill bred sack of $#it and expect teachers to hand back a genius. It doesn't work like that . I remember a few years ago , it was suggested by some that teachers should be responsible for teaching manners and the like .

Yep , some peeps really need to get their heads out of their a r s e h o l e s , and maybe walk a few feet in the shoes of others before opening that hole in their faces .

It's a really stressful job , not only do you have deal with the ill bred spawn , you have to deal with the breeders as well. It isn't easy and it isn't getting any easier. We should bring back the cane and the strap to help the teachers deal with some of the little sods .

What you said about the difficult tasks a teacher has to face is not disputed, James. I also agree with you about the parents who did not do their bit at home and basically abdicated their responsibilities to teachers. However...James...

We are not here to discuss about such issues here, are we ?

Perhaps you are a teacher yourself? If so, your line...

"...need to get their heads out of their a r s e h o l e s , and maybe walk a few feet in the shoes of others before opening that hole in their faces ."

is totally opposite to what good teaching is all about? May be you did pick up some bad habits from a bad teacher ?

Regarding the suitability and qualification, and the lack of it, of "SOME" teachers, I thought such issue is being talked about a hell of a lot by politicians and education establishments. The teachers' union, as always, claims there is nothing wrong about teacher's training. I bet you also believe there is nothing wrong with some of the teachers either ?

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Ted the Kiwi said..
Maybe the teachers is going to teach them trigonometry and the area of a circle and all kinds of other cool things that only calculators can do

Not sure if you were taking the piss or not Ted, but he's 7 years old. Year 2. Absolutely no chance he (or anyone in his class) is ready for trigonometry and cool stuff that only calculators can do.

I didn't really want to open a debate about how hard teachers work or whether or not they're expected to do too much these days. I was just hoping to find out if getting kids to use calculators in Year 2 is normal, and whether or not others thought it was jumping the gun.

I'm pretty sure when I was at school we weren't allowed to have a calculator until Year 7 (turning 12 y.o.). And even then it's was pretty carefully managed as to when we used them and what for. And I'm pretty sure we didn't get asked to have a scientific calculator until Year 8 (turning 13 y.o.). Things have changed a lot since then if 7 year olds having calculators is now normal, and I'm pretty sure it's a change for the worse if it's the norm.

Crikey, I don't think I even learnt that 58008 made "Boobs" when the calculator's held upside down until I was about 13. That was pretty cool though. If my kid does end up having a calculator I hope he at least learns that before the year's through.

My son is in year 5 this year (10 years old). He will have his own basic calculator for the first time this year. He said his whole class has used the school calculators on occasions over the last couple of years.

The calculators were used to multiply and divide big numbers (in the hundreds). They didnt use them for their normal maths work or to check their day to day answers.

Sounds like the calculator was brought out on the odd occasion to familiarise the students with available technology.

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James said...
It's a really stressful job , not only do you have deal with the ill bred spawn , you have to deal with the breeders as well. It isn't easy and it isn't getting any easier. We should bring back the cane and the strap to help the teachers deal with some of the little sods .

I don't think being a teacher is any more stressful than the majority of jobs now. The excellent news is that they get truckloads of holidays (i assume you've just had 6 weeks off but don't worry, you've got more holidays in April!!) but also excellent pay (especially in WA) and once you are permanent it's bloody tough to loose your job.

There are plenty of teacher's who don't have the required skills who i'd never let teach my kid.

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Buster fin said..
The misspellings and typos in the handouts my groms bring back from school has me seriously worried.
They might know how to use a computer, but not well enough to employ it's many and varied tools.

"have" you seriously worried.

'misspellings and typos' become plural.

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MDSXR6T said..

James said...
It's a really stressful job , not only do you have deal with the ill bred spawn , you have to deal with the breeders as well. It isn't easy and it isn't getting any easier. We should bring back the cane and the strap to help the teachers deal with some of the little sods .

I don't think being a teacher is any more stressful than the majority of jobs now. The excellent news is that they get truckloads of holidays (i assume you've just had 6 weeks off but don't worry, you've got more holidays in April!!) but also excellent pay (especially in WA) and once you are permanent it's bloody tough to loose your job.

There are plenty of teacher's who don't have the required skills who i'd never let teach my kid.

They do a lot of unpaid overtime during term time. Consider how much time it would take to fairly evaluate 30 assignments. A High School teacher would probably have 5 or 6 classes to take care of. That's 100+ kids to treat with patience, no matter how stupid they are. I doubt that I could remember all their names, let alone inspire them to study.

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Carantoc said..

Buster fin said..
The misspellings and typos in the handouts my groms bring back from school has me seriously worried.
They might know how to use a computer, but not well enough to employ it's many and varied tools.

"have" you seriously worried.

'misspellings and typos' become plural.

You missed the misplaced apostrophe. "it's" is not the possessive case for the pronoun it. It is the contraction of "it is"
The easy way to remember it is to follow the spelling for other personal pronouns eg he becomes his, she has hers and they have theirs. No apostrophes involved

I spent most of my school years typing the numbers to make the words boobs and shelloil into my calculator , may explain where I'm at in my life now lol .
What other words could you guys make ??

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James said..

Jupiter said...

mineral1 said..
Jup, normally you are close, but mate, on this statement below you are taking the pizzz yes for sure?
Primary school teachers hopeless in maths, Wouldn't even get to Uni Bachelor Of Arts degree if that was the case.

Jupiter quote
"I suspect the teachers themselves are bloody hopeless in maths, especially mental maths like tables. So it is an easy way out for the schools to just lump in a calculator to help out the teachers. In other words, to cover their assess! "

I suspect you oversold the qualifications and suitability of some teachers, mineral1.

When I was being interviewed for a shared room years ago. I met three young amigos from SA who also are hunting for accommodation. The conversation led to why they were in NT. Apparently they were rejected by the universities there on all the "hard" degrees because their marks were below average. So teaching was the last resort. You work that out.

I didn't know you need maths to do a Bachelor of Arts degree ?

You must be from another planet mate . You clearly have NFI what teachers have to endure and how hard they work outside the classroom.

Some parents hand over an ill bred sack of $#it and expect teachers to hand back a genius. It doesn't work like that . I remember a few years ago , it was suggested by some that teachers should be responsible for teaching manners and the like .

Yep , some peeps really need to get their heads out of their a r s e h o l e s , and maybe walk a few feet in the shoes of others before opening that hole in their faces .

It's a really stressful job , not only do you have deal with the ill bred spawn , you have to deal with the breeders as well. It isn't easy and it isn't getting any easier. We should bring back the cane and the strap to help the teachers deal with some of the little sods .

I really like how you put that James!

When do you NEED a calculator??

I was OK with sine, cosine and tan tables but when it came to calculus, I hit a brick wall.

Would there be anybody here under 50 years of age who would know what I am talking about??

In year 9 I was busy putting 55378008 or 5318008 into the calculator and reading the display upside down.

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cisco said..

When do you NEED a calculator??

I was OK with sine, cosine and tan tables but when it came to calculus, I hit a brick wall.

Would there be anybody here under 50 years of age who would know what I am talking about??

I am 59 so I don't count in your survey sample. But trigonometry is fundamental to GPS, mapping, computer graphics, image processing. The people writing all the software for most of the apps I use are young so they must understand it.

BTW I failed maths at school but in the years following bumped into stuff where I needed it (all the GPS and mapping stuff mentioned above). I had no trouble at all working it out with a few Google searches. That raises all sorts of questions about whether teaching maths in schools is done badly, or if it is better to learn problem solving skills rather than specifics etc.

While we're at it, I have heard some parents questioning the sense of children using iPads and laptops. That seems bizarre. That would be the same as someone 100 years ago saying kids shouldn't have books.

if kids at school have laptops what are they made to carry 1 tonne of books in their back packs??????
Case of misused resources???

Whilst I think that a laptop is a great tool for each kid to have in highschool, my daughter recently started in year 7 at a PUBLIC school and was required to have an Macbook laptop? Damn thing cost me $1,500.
They say it's so that each kid has the same laptop and that they are better with viruses and such but still...

i tried to explain to some teachers that if you are working in an office you most likely sitting in front of a computer. Some teachers dont seem to know what happens in the working world? these teachers were mostly computer illiterate as they didn't need a computer over the last 20 years for their teaching job.

I dont think you need a calculator or computer until about grade 5 or 6 primary school.

A lot of schools it is BYOD (bring your own device) so you have a choice of $300 to $3,000 laptop and just network it via wifi or the poor IT guys can sort it (hehe). They seem to have office 365 available.

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Elroy Jetson said..
In year 9 I was busy putting 55378008 or 5318008 into the calculator and reading the display upside down.

58008618 is the opposite of 55378008


Try solving that with Differential calculus

That's some maths that just cant be taught without having a knowledge of the real world.