I have been looking for a very specific model of Australian made hard floor off road camper trailer. One became available for sale in NSW and I had many phone discussions and emails with the seller before agreeing a price and placing a deposit of $800. The deal was that I would drive half way from QLD and he would drive up from NSW. We would do a final inspection and complete the deal. No problems so far. I got no bad vibes from the seller, he was an older country truck driving sort of a fella.

Before leaving QLD I performed a PPSR check on the camper VIN and found it had been written of by the NSW RTA when it was only 12 months old. Three and half years later it was reinspected and registered again. The seller had clearly forgotten to tell me about this but when I asked he remember that he had bought it from an insurance company and spent $1000 and 3 & 1/2 years fixing a panel on one corner and replacing a few stickers.

Yeah right ! Who rights off a 12 month old $34,000 camper for $1000 damage. I politely declined to purchase the camper based on the undisclosed write-off history and we both agreed the deposit would be refunded.

That's the last I heard from him. No refund, no communication, no camper trailer for my family for now.

Knot board,
Long time no speak (posts).
That sucks regarding the seller's lack of integrity. Don't know exactly what you're looking for but my father in law has an off road "king off the road" hard floor camper trailer for sale. We have used it every Easter and we comfortably sleep the 6 of us in it. it has a brand new bank of batteries can send you some photos and check what he wants for it. From memory I believe they're worth around $25k second hand.
PM me.

Hey Sausage, thanks for the offer. From your description that would be a Kimbery Kamper which tend to have a lot of weight on the drawbar. I was chasing a Camp/o/matic which have a lighter ball weight while still being a serious off roader. Particularly chasing a model prior to 2005 when they were still made at the Queensland factory and not outsourced to china for fabrication.

(Hope you fared ok in the cyclone by the way)

I wouldn't be too surprised that things are written off easily for what seems like small amounts of money.

I know with cars its a bit different, but my neighbour had his car written off for what was around $1000 worth of damage for a car worth about $10k to them. I also spoke to a guy who had a car worth $20k written off and they were happy to sell the wreck to him for something like $1000, when he could sell the engine for at least $5k.

I think the insurance companies factor in the hassle of repairing something versus just getting rid of it, and sometimes it is surprising how much they 'write off'.

As for this seller, was it $1000 worth of materials and his own 'free' labour to fix it? I do agree though that he should tell you that upfront so that you can choose to buy it or not.

Just keep hassling him until he gives you a refund. It sounds like he is not the best communicator.

knot board, if its written off.... that's it, it cant be re-registered. The only way he could have re-registered is if it was a repairable write off.
Now saying that, I spent some considerable time slogging through auctions, looking for a landcruiser that had the factory turbo diesel, I could use for a transplant in my NA diesel landcruiser.
The number of vehicles and such I observed with, what can be considered repairable, but labelled "statutory write off" was mind boggling.
Spoke to a panel shop mate, and even those guys were frustrated with the tendency to just "write off" by insurance agents. The state then (6-12 month's back) most apt to do this was NSW with all others following on.
Buying a write off can have some consequences with selling items from the write off. Any panels and such being purchased to repair another XYZ have to be recorded where these came from and to what XYZ they are being fitted to.
So if it was a repairable write off, then its quite possible the damage wasn't so bad and he had completed some good work to get it back on the road. However that doesn't absolve him from being difficult with you on his disclosure nor refund of deposit. Place a caveat on the trailer, he cant sell it until its resolved

Funny thing was we was a great communicator right until the last phone call.

It was $1000 material plus his own labour. But even still I can't see an insurance company paying out about $30k to the first owner rather than spending $5k to even $10k doing the repairs. At the end of the day it's just an economic decision on their part.

Seems his pre-repair photos have all been lost too, which is a shame


It could be the best repair job in the world but in lying to me he's lost all credibilty. I'm not dragging a trailer around off road with my family in the car if I am questionable about it's history.

Mineral1: what do you mean place a caveat on the trailer so he can't sell it until this is resolved? Is that some kind of legal maneuver ?

Knot board, yes as he owes you money, against the item. You can apply to have a caveat applied. The authorities will contact him of course to advise that one is pending. Usually this wakes them up and the issue is resolved rather sharpish.

Look on the bright side, you may have been scammed 850 but you saved yourself a whole lot more if you brought the dud. See if you can report him to anyone and in the mean time get his details or add out on facebook, stop people from buying from him. Sucks. I once spent a few thousand on a car that lasted a few weeks. Some people dont care. No morals.

Did you do the Personnel Tattoo check prior?

I googled caveats and they only seem to apply to land. My best course is to issue a letter of demand and threaten him with legal civil action. I will need to contact police in his local town to get a residential address in order to serve the letter of demand. Gumtree have provided a law enforcement tracking number to help the police out.

I also googled "Personnel Tattoo Check" and still have no idea what that means.

Hi Knot Board disregard that last post of mine its not relevant here at all kind of a personal joke. That does sound like some dodgey caper from this individual in NSW. What would be the round trip from your place to pay this man a visit?

No worries mates, sounds like an interesting joke anyways !

3000 kms round trip, so it's not an economical proposition. For the satisfaction of landing one on his nose I'd have about a buck fifty of change left

Yes it would be a worthless trip and smooshing his nose may not be so satisfying. I can see why your at a loss after dealing with such a man outright lies to better his position, and snavelling your deposit $800 hard won $ when you uncover the truth! I would certainly be contacting the police and a lawyer so he doesn't think he can do and get off scot free. I hope it works out for you in the end with not to much run around back and forth!

If he is selling on gumtree - cut n paste his ad and submit it under another logon, same location - with "do not buy this camper cos he took my deposit" etc
It will appear right up there with his ad... :)

Then tell him what you've done

Might be fun but I suspect Gumtree would probably moderate such an ad. I must say Gumtree have been very responsive so far, they took down his ad, locked his account and gave me a police tracking number all within 7 minutes of me contacting them.

Select to expand quote

mineral1 said..
knot board, if its written off.... that's it, it cant be re-registered. The only way he could have re-registered is if it was a repairable write off.
Now saying that, I spent some considerable time slogging through auctions, looking for a landcruiser that had the factory turbo diesel, I could use for a transplant in my NA diesel landcruiser.
The number of vehicles and such I observed with, what can be considered repairable, but labelled "statutory write off" was mind boggling.
Spoke to a panel shop mate, and even those guys were frustrated with the tendency to just "write off" by insurance agents. The state then (6-12 month's back) most apt to do this was NSW with all others following on.
Buying a write off can have some consequences with selling items from the write off. Any panels and such being purchased to repair another XYZ have to be recorded where these came from and to what XYZ they are being fitted to.
So if it was a repairable write off, then its quite possible the damage wasn't so bad and he had completed some good work to get it back on the road. However that doesn't absolve him from being difficult with you on his disclosure nor refund of deposit. Place a caveat on the trailer, he cant sell it until its resolved

For cars, in NSW it is almost impossible to re-register a car after it has become a write-off. They are all statutory write-offs, which appears to have been done because of an apparent large number of rebirths using written off vehicles. I.e. buy a wreck from the auction, steal a similar vehicle, and change the IDs across.

It seems to have reduced the value of a wreck substantially, which can only suggest that the reasoning was correct.

On the other hand, I don't know what the rules are WRT caravans and trailers. In theory, even if something is written off, you could rebuild it as home-built, but you would still need to provide proof of where the materials were sourced.

sotired, yes its Australia wide.
The only place one can have a repaired vehicle that is written off, re-registered is ship to NZ or the Africa's.
I asked one of the main people at a large Auction house over here, when seeing the number of people bidding, who were not of Australia heritage
He explained they pack them into containers and ship them to XYZ (none to NZ) , then the vehicles after some repairs start a new life as a what ever.
But yes the Insurance industry's habit, of only too readily write off, is a huge cost to us the people insuring. Somebody has to pay.
I even went down the road of asking, if I had engineering approval on a write off repair, could it then be reregistered. The answer was "don't waste your time, too expensive"
Case in point, a 2006 Toyota landcruiser with factory turbo and over $20,000 worth of ARB items installed. 120,000 k's on the clock.
No damage to vehicle what so ever, none!!!!
I, when looking at vehicle, realised from an old football jumper in the rear, where it came from, so rang the club president, who put me in contact with the owner. He had inadvertently driven it into a fresh water stream, and the electrics and engine ECM were flooded. Engine then wont start or run, so it was a water immersion, and "statutory write off" A huge bloody waste of a fine vehicle, all because of some clown insurance assessor ticked the box.

It was an "economic repairable write off" according the the PPSR report. There is also a record of it being inspected by the RTA 3 1/2 years later and removed from the written off vehicle register. This would suggest the repairs were mechanically sound.

It take "economic repairable write off" to mean it has suffered enough damage to make it unroadworthy or unusable at the very least.

By definition, for it to be an economical write off the residual value of the wreck plus the assessment of repair costs must have been equal to or under the current market value.

Select to expand quote

knot board said..
Might be fun but I suspect Gumtree would probably moderate such an ad. I must say Gumtree have been very responsive so far, they took down his ad, locked his account and gave me a police tracking number all within 7 minutes of me contacting them.

Wow!

Now THAT is impressive given that so many websites don't give a damn.

I brought a writen off vehicle in Victoria due to hail damage. Re-registered in Vic brought it back to NSW and got it fixed up by a mate who is a Paintless ding repairer. Re registered it in NSW after passing blue slip. The only way you can re register a written off vehicle in NSW is if you register it first in the state that it was cancelled in. It was Impossible to register in NSW until the Vics excepted it. In the end I got a bargain - brand new car with 6k on the clock for under half price. It's possible - but make sure you do your homework first. The new laws are designed to protect the consumer. From memory if it's written off in NSW almost impossible to re-register. Other states are a bit more lax.

Select to expand quote

Ted the Kiwi said..
I brought a writen off vehicle in Victoria due to hail damage. Re-registered in Vic brought it back to NSW and got it fixed up by a mate who is a Paintless ding repairer. Re registered it in NSW after passing blue slip. The only way you can re register a written off vehicle in NSW is if you register it first in the state that it was cancelled in. It was Impossible to register in NSW until the Vics excepted it. In the end I got a bargain - brand new car with 6k on the clock for under half price. It's possible - but make sure you do your homework first. The new laws are designed to protect the consumer. From memory if it's written off in NSW almost impossible to re-register. Other states are a bit more lax.

Agreed, but I think the laws are more to protect a notorious practice of stealing and re-birthing cars, either taking the parts from a stolen car to repair or swapping identities. I don't think NSW actually cares if you get a car that has shoddy repairs. I rebuilt one when we still had repairable write-offs, and the RTA inspected it as well as needing an identity check at a blueslip provider.

No one actually checked the integrity of the repairs, only that the parts used to repair it were traceable using VIN numbers back to a reputable source.

The difference between NSW and the other states, is that we no longer have 'repairable write-offs' due to the re-birthing problem.

Other states have repairable write-offs and statutory write-offs, but in NSW it is statutory write-offs only, and you have to have exceptional circumstances to be able to re-register one of those.

Good news, I got my money back

Here's the method I used to trick him into sending the money back

After visiting the police station on a number of occasions they ultimately decided no crime had been committed but advised I could engage a lawyer and maybe recover the debt as a civil matter. I soon realised if this was going to work I had to take matter's into my own hands.

I telephoned the guy every day for the first three weeks from a variety of different phone numbers, he scanned every call and never picked up but I left a polite message every time. Being careful no to call more than once a day so that it can't be construed as harassment. I also followed him on ebay, gumtree and facebook just to left him know I was watching him. Occasionally I would send him polite messages through one of these sites. No message was ever replied to by him.

After three weeks of zero communication from this guy I called and left a message to say that I had no choice but to take him to court. I advised him I would start collecting the documentation and I would be in touch. I didn't contact him for the next week. (the court threat was just a bluff)

After one week I called him in the morning and left a message to say that the police had finally agreed to take a statement at my local station and would send a report down to the Goulburn police to investigate. (not true)

Here's the trump card, after one month of him avoiding me...
Knowing that my "police investigation" phone call would be fresh in his mind... Later that afternoon I logged on to the whitepages website and looked up Goulburn Police, with whitepages online there is an option to send the contact details to your mobile phone. I entered HIS mobile number into the website knowing he would receive a very formal looking SMS from an unknown number with the full contact details for the Goulburn police station.

Amazingly I received 4 SMS's from him within ten minutes He fully freaked out and promised to pay half the money back immediately and the other half tomorrow. I promised to withdraw my 'police complaint' as soon as the money came through. Sure enough withing three days I had the whole lot back.

Well played sir...well played!

Nice work, just out of principle, now that you have the money, I would send him a text saying the cops will not withdraw investigation and then send him the Goldburn Police Station text again.

Beautiful piece of work against a real "piece of work".

Select to expand quote

knot board said..
Good news, I got my money back

Here's the method I used to trick him into sending the money back

After visiting the police station on a number of occasions they ultimately decided no crime had been committed but advised I could engage a lawyer and maybe recover the debt as a civil matter. I soon realised if this was going to work I had to take matter's into my own hands.

I telephoned the guy every day for the first three weeks from a variety of different phone numbers, he scanned every call and never picked up but I left a polite message every time. Being careful no to call more than once a day so that it can't be construed as harassment. I also followed him on ebay, gumtree and facebook just to left him know I was watching him. Occasionally I would send him polite messages through one of these sites. No message was ever replied to by him.

After three weeks of zero communication from this guy I called and left a message to say that I had no choice but to take him to court. I advised him I would start collecting the documentation and I would be in touch. I didn't contact him for the next week. (the court threat was just a bluff)

After one week I called him in the morning and left a message to say that the police had finally agreed to take a statement at my local station and would send a report down to the Goulburn police to investigate. (not true)

Here's the trump card, after one month of him avoiding me...
Knowing that my "police investigation" phone call would be fresh in his mind... Later that afternoon I logged on to the whitepages website and looked up Goulburn Police, with whitepages online there is an option to send the contact details to your mobile phone. I entered HIS mobile number into the website knowing he would receive a very formal looking SMS from an unknown number with the full contact details for the Goulburn police station.

Amazingly I received 4 SMS's from him within ten minutes He fully freaked out and promised to pay half the money back immediately and the other half tomorrow. I promised to withdraw my 'police complaint' as soon as the money came through. Sure enough withing three days I had the whole lot back.

Great solution. I had a guy years ago scam me by offering to Triple some money over three days "guaranteed". So a mate and i decided to go with it as he had just bought a Jet ski from my work and seemed very genuine. Anyway long story short after three days he said he had extended it and we would get even more if we waited two extra days.

We gave him $3000 and after about 5 weeks (we new for a fact at this point it was a scam) he agreed to refund my $3000. I denied and said i wanted my $12000 or i have him outed. Anyway a few well placed contacts and good guesses and a year and half latter, i got the final payment of $12000 from this dirt bag.. He said it was one of his best life lessons..

BJ,.. you gave him $3000 dollars? on the strength of his word that he could double it in three days?

And then double it again in another two days?

And you believed him???? And handed over $3000 (three thousand dollars) Really??????

Why did you think he was asking you for money rather than just put his own money up and make a truckload for himself??


Hey,.. while I'm here, I just remembered,.. have I got a deal for you?...
Recently, a large bridge has come into my possession, old but a good one, with a guaranteed regular patronage and great income.
Send me a pm immediately to register your interest, but be quick because I can tell you,. there's been a lot of interest in this and the deal will be completed within the next week.
Don't miss out on this once in a lifetime opportunity.
It will not be repeated.

Select to expand quote

pweedas said..
BJ,.. you gave him $3000 dollars? on the strength of his word that he could double it in three days?

And then double it again in another two days?

And you believed him???? And handed over $3000 (three thousand dollars) Really??????

Why did you think he was asking you for money rather than just put his own money up and make a truckload for himself??


Hey,.. while I'm here, I just remembered,.. have I got a deal for you?...
Recently, a large bridge has come into my possession, old but a good one, with a guaranteed regular patronage and great income.
Send me a pm immediately to register your interest, but be quick because I can tell you,. there's been a lot of interest in this and the deal will be completed within the next week.
Don't miss out on this once in a lifetime opportunity.
It will not be repeated.

There was a lot of back ground thats not so interesting to share, but he promised me $12000 grand and i got it, plus flowers for my wife, a bottle of bourbon (Ive never opened it and still have it, I'm not that game ) and a basket of chocolates and a teddy bear when my daughter was born

Not a bad return in reality..

BJ, from now on, you're my new financial adviser. I would have run a mile and he wouldn't have got a cent from me.

Macpweet33, You're fired!
And you owe me 3 million dollars so I can buy my old house back again.

Select to expand quote

pweedas said..
BJ, from now on, you're my new financial adviser. I would have run a mile and he wouldn't have got a cent from me.

Macpweet33, You're fired!
And you owe me 3 million dollars so I can buy my old house back again.

The funniest part was only a few months back he walked into a luxury boat dealer. (Over half million type) The sales guy (a mate and the other half of the investment) recognised him and said "How are you, you'd know a good mate of mine Rod? " He said the look on this poor buggers face was worth the money

All said and done it was worth the risk at the time