^^^

Well, its good to see that we needn't have had to discuss why the BoM only shows data from 1910 and confirms that the recorded data from before then is available on the BoM website. Who would have thunk it. No conspiracy??!

Some will be all confused now that the references to the dee-pole-ley have been made fun of, and the science does suggest that this is the result of climate change.

Its a good video. Scott Morrison should watch it.

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Bara said..
Great vid thx for posting.

" Climate change is an amplifier not the cause of the current bushfire crisis"

If the lefties would stop there we wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so called deniers.

?

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Bara said..
Great vid thx for posting.

" Climate change is an amplifier not the cause of the current bushfire crisis"

If the lefties would stop there we wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so called deniers.

And if the deniers would stop saying that the crisis was caused (rather than amplified) by lack of controlled burns etc, they wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so-called lefties.

The "lefties" around my place, by the way, include veteran farmers and RFS personnel who probably vote National. I think it's only the people from the 'burbs who claim that only latte-sipping inner-city "lefties" believe that AGW has led to increased fire activity.

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log man said..

Bara said..
Great vid thx for posting.

" Climate change is an amplifier not the cause of the current bushfire crisis"

If the lefties would stop there we wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so called deniers.

?

"climate change based" vs "amplified by climate change"

HUUUUGE diffference

get it?

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Bara said..

log man said..

Bara said..
Great vid thx for posting.

" Climate change is an amplifier not the cause of the current bushfire crisis"

If the lefties would stop there we wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so called deniers.

?

"climate change based" vs "amplified by climate change"

HUUUUGE diffference

get it?

Yes, its obvious Logman.

One is 'if there was only climate change and nothing else in the world we could squarely blame it on that'

and the other is

'if there was only one thing that has changed and we call it climate change, we could squarely blame it on that'



See!

A complete difference, AKA, we are still right! unlike those latte sipping inner city lefties!

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Chris 249 said..

Bara said..
Great vid thx for posting.

" Climate change is an amplifier not the cause of the current bushfire crisis"

If the lefties would stop there we wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so called deniers.

And if the deniers would stop saying that the crisis was caused (rather than amplified) by lack of controlled burns etc, they wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so-called lefties.

The "lefties" around my place, by the way, include veteran farmers and RFS personnel who probably vote National. I think it's only the people from the 'burbs who claim that only latte-sipping inner-city "lefties" believe that AGW has led to increased fire activity.

yeah extremes on both sides are muppets.

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FormulaNova said..

Bara said..

log man said..

Bara said..
Great vid thx for posting.

" Climate change is an amplifier not the cause of the current bushfire crisis"

If the lefties would stop there we wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so called deniers.

?

"climate change based" vs "amplified by climate change"

HUUUUGE diffference

get it?

Yes, its obvious Logman.

One is 'if there was only climate change and nothing else in the world we could squarely blame it on that'

and the other is

'if there was only one thing that has changed and we call it climate change, we could squarely blame it on that'



See!

A complete difference, AKA, we are still right! unlike those latte sipping inner city lefties!

there you go again putting words in quotes to try and pretend i said something i didnt. i wrote what i wrote stop making it into something it isnt and move on FN

Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.

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DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.

seen this yet?

admittedly from Greenpeace, but the links within speak for themselves. undoubtedly both sides of our esteemed system with noses so deep in the troughs that it is hard to see a way out

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mazdon said..

DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.

admittedly from Greenpeace, but the links within speak for themselves. undoubtedly both sides of our esteemed system with noses so deep in the troughs that it is hard to see a way out

you could do a similar piece on the renewables industry and the left.

we get the muppets we deserve.

Barnaby case in point for sure but no worse than that rabid dog christine milne of the greens when she was propping up the gillard minority govt. We would have had an emissions trading scheme for over a decade now were it not for her idealism.

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DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?

That's terribly unfair. Muppets don't spend that much time turning up to functions pissed.

Ahhh, Barnyard - a man who is so much into family values that he can't have enough families.

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Bara said..

log man said..

Bara said..
Great vid thx for posting.

" Climate change is an amplifier not the cause of the current bushfire crisis"

If the lefties would stop there we wouldn't have so much disagreement from the so called deniers.

?

"climate change based" vs "amplified by climate change"

HUUUUGE diffference

get it?

Really? Sure different.......but almost immaterial. Aren't we splitting hairs trying to pin down how much "natural CC is responsible and how much "man made" is responsible or whether or not one is a driver or a multiplier. It seems to me that we're influencing our climate to a dangerous level.........I really don't want to find out by how much

The temperature is generally dropping where I live in sydney. I have a pool that is sitting at 25C for the past month.
Normally its around 30C from mid Dec to mid Jan,.Lots of solar on roof. Wife complains its like soup, every xmas.
Believe whatever rubbish you are reading on heating, the reality is my pool is 5C colder than it has been over this period
for the past 26 years.
I am a denier, you believers are mis guided fools.
Facts are facts, I am not adjusting, manipulating, ignoring history etc etc
How many times has the BOM predicted 40 plus degree days recently, not too many have happened, FACT!

if its heating up and the place turn into desert then build a city like dubai with islands and air condition and desalination for days but it comes at a co$t

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boofta said..
The temperature is generally dropping where I live in sydney. I have a pool that is sitting at 25C for the past month.
Normally its around 30C from mid Dec to mid Jan,.Lots of solar on roof. Wife complains its like soup, every xmas.
Believe whatever rubbish you are reading on heating, the reality is my pool is 5C colder than it has been over this period
for the past 26 years.
I am a denier, you believers are mis guided fools.
Facts are facts, I am not adjusting, manipulating, ignoring history etc etc
How many times has the BOM predicted 40 plus degree days recently, not too many have happened, FACT!

Wow, so what one person's memory says is true, and all the memories and records of the people who contradict them are wrong?

Wow, so the farmers around me who tell me that they and their families have been keeping daily records for decades are wrong, and your memories are right?

NASA is wrong, and you are right because your memory is perfect?

This is great news. Now that we know that you are right and science is wrong, you can show us how to make lead turn into gold, how to make a perpetual motion machine, and how to predict every day's waves. Because, of course, you know far, far more than all the thousands of climate scientists, since you're God and all that.

By the way, my river has been drier than it has ever been as far as anyone knows. Why is your cool pool a better measure of climate change than my river? Just 'cause you know everything?

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boofta said..
The temperature is generally dropping where I live in sydney. I have a pool that is sitting at 25C for the past month.
Normally its around 30C from mid Dec to mid Jan,.Lots of solar on roof. Wife complains its like soup, every xmas.
Believe whatever rubbish you are reading on heating, the reality is my pool is 5C colder than it has been over this period
for the past 26 years.
I am a denier, you believers are mis guided fools.
Facts are facts, I am not adjusting, manipulating, ignoring history etc etc
How many times has the BOM predicted 40 plus degree days recently, not too many have happened, FACT!

I agree! Well, sort of, because all the smoke in the air where I live near Sutherland has cut the temperature a bit. A day which might have been otherwise clear and 40 degrees is hazy and 37 degrees.

Is this the answer to global warming?

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boofta said..
The temperature is generally dropping where I live in sydney. I have a pool that is sitting at 25C for the past month.
Normally its around 30C from mid Dec to mid Jan,.Lots of solar on roof. Wife complains its like soup, every xmas.
Believe whatever rubbish you are reading on heating, the reality is my pool is 5C colder than it has been over this period
for the past 26 years.
I am a denier, you believers are mis guided fools.
Facts are facts, I am not adjusting, manipulating, ignoring history etc etc
How many times has the BOM predicted 40 plus degree days recently, not too many have happened, FACT!

Oh, I just re-read your post, and I think I can answer your 'question' in a factual and enlightening manner that may explain what you are seeing. Possibly.

I can see the same thing with my solar hot water system. I have a setup where I monitor the collector temperature using an Arduino, so it gives me realtime info. You would be surprised how much less energy you get when there is any cloudcover and in recent months, smoke haze. It cuts out a lot of energy.

In my system, on a clear day the collector temperatures soar before the pumps kick in, but on a cloudy or hazy day, the temperature slowly creeps up and adds hardly anything to the tanks. There just isn't enough energy reaching the collectors when there is an obstruction and I think the smokey days may have something to do with it.

There was a day after Christmas where I got hardly any solar input, and the next day I got what I would normally expect, and the difference appeared to be the haze.

Yep, the smoke and haze has been cutting efficiency of solar panels by up to 45%. And then there's the fact that if the solar system has been in place for 26 years, it's past its normal expected lifetime and may well be cactus. That's ignoring other issues such as possible increase in shadows due to growth of nearby trees, etc.

To use one pool as a measure of GLOBAL temperatures is illogical and frankly stupid.

Dear Chris 249 I have a solar water heating system, do they degrade over time? You seem to deduce more than most, I guess it could
be climate hysteria that puts these silly ideas in your head, also, drives your penchant to contradict anything that suggests
climate change belief is stupidity.

Your river is dry because there's been a drought, perhaps my pool it cooler because of smoke and more overcast days.
You see that's using logic, rather than the crazed zealotry of believers.
There is a middle road out there somewhere, where people have constant electric power and real jobs.

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boofta said..
I have a solar water heating system, do they degrade over time?

I have also two solar water heaters and with utmost certainty I could say that :
1.vacuum tubes system , without circulating pump works fine - even in no so sunny day.2.Flat panel with pumps and cistern below are almost uselessThe problem is that first is too cheap to be promoted and sold here, the second is expensive and provide adequate profit margin for resellers and installers - so will be highly recommended. As usual I expect now tyrade of baseless critics, to oppose everything I said.


This is the most efficient system , boiling water everyday for me at midday. But you will not see many of those installed here.

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Macroscien said..

boofta said..
I have a solar water heating system, do they degrade over time?

I have also two solar water heaters and with utmost certainty I could say that :
1.vacuum tubes system , without circulating pump works fine - even in no so sunny day.2.Flat panel with pumps and cistern below are almost uselessThe problem is that first is too cheap to be promoted and sold here, the second is expensive and provide adequate profit margin for resellers and installers - so will be highly recommended. As usual I expect now tyrade of baseless critics, to oppose everything I said.


This is the most efficient system , boiling water everyday for me at midday. But you will not see many of those installed here.

Oh good. I will start. They are common here. They were invented here in Aus weren't they although they are super cheap to now get from China. Lots of people are using vacuum tube collectors, even on pools.

Flat plate collectors with an attached tank have been commonplace for a longtime as well, and seemingly work well. I think there were some tests done between vacuum tubes and flat plate collectors and in at least one comparison there was little difference.

Flat plate collectors had a benefit in snow bound areas, but I think we can agree that hardly matters in Australia.

I have never used a vacuum tube setup, so I can't say I have tested it.

P.S. they are only "baseless critics" when you have unthought out ideas.

Looks like the IMF is now in on the socialist conspiracy that the BOM started in 1908...

www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2020/01/20/weo-update-january2020

"Weather-related disasters such as tropical storms, floods, heatwaves, droughts, and wildfires have imposed severe humanitarian costs and livelihood loss across multiple regions in recent years. Climate change, the driver of the increased frequency and intensity of weather-related disasters, already endangers health and economic outcomes, and not only in the directly affected regions. It could pose challenges to other areas that may not yet feel the direct effects, including by contributing to cross-border migration or financial stress (for instance, in the insurance sector). A continuation of the trends could inflict even bigger losses across more countries."

Select to expand quote

boofta said..
Dear Chris 249 I have a solar water heating system, do they degrade over time? You seem to deduce more than most, I guess it could
be climate hysteria that puts these silly ideas in your head, also, drives your penchant to contradict anything that suggests
climate change belief is stupidity.

Your river is dry because there's been a drought, perhaps my pool it cooler because of smoke and more overcast days.
You see that's using logic, rather than the crazed zealotry of believers.
There is a middle road out there somewhere, where people have constant electric power and real jobs.

It's not a "deduction" or a "silly idea" that most solar pool heating systems degrade over time - it's something we knew in the industry when I was in it, and which anyone can confirm by research. Just Google terms like "life of solar pool heating systems" and you'll see that they are generally considered to last less than 26 years. This is not "deduction" or "hysteria"; it's knowledge and research.

There's nothing wrong with contradicting people who say that believing in climate change is stupid. It is logical, for example, to point out the silly flaws in claims such as the one that the BoM is hiding pre-1908 temperature records because of bias. It is logical to accept that science - the same thing that brings us modern aircraft, computers, and heart transplants - is much more likely to be correct about long-term widespread trends than one person's memory of the temperature of their pool in one part of one city in one country in one part of an entire planet.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

P.S. they are only "baseless critics" when you have unthought out ideas.

Yep.

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holy guacamole said..
Looks like the IMF is now in on the socialist conspiracy that the BOM started in 1908...

www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2020/01/20/weo-update-january2020

"Weather-related disasters such as tropical storms, floods, heatwaves, droughts, and wildfires have imposed severe humanitarian costs and livelihood loss across multiple regions in recent years. Climate change, the driver of the increased frequency and intensity of weather-related disasters, already endangers health and economic outcomes, and not only in the directly affected regions. It could pose challenges to other areas that may not yet feel the direct effects, including by contributing to cross-border migration or financial stress (for instance, in the insurance sector). A continuation of the trends could inflict even bigger losses across more countries."

Yes it's interesting that both the imf and overnight now the bis as well are voicing their concern about climate change impacts while at the same time being focused on promoting global economic growth at pretty much any cost ie producing more stuff.

Kinda ironic the organisations tasked with promoting global growth don't see the conflict with that increasing emmissions.

There you go Chris, now you have deduced how black plastic tubing can absorb less heat from the sun over time
God help you, and all your crazy believers zealots

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boofta said....God help you, and all your crazy believers zealots

Funny . You refer to people who accept science as crazy zealots yet you believe it's fine to refer to a sky fairy for help.

LOL

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mazdon said..

DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.

seen this yet?

admittedly from Greenpeace, but the links within speak for themselves. undoubtedly both sides of our esteemed system with noses so deep in the troughs that it is hard to see a way out

its a total disgrace
democracy has been bought out
most voters would not believe the behind the scenes lobbying or the amount of money that the coal industry spends on lobbying
Still waiting for scroto to tell us the liberal party plan for a transition over the next 10 years? He is probably scared of the knives in his back from the behind the scenes players.

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Bara said..

mazdon said..

DelFuego said..
Can we agree that Barnaby Joyce is a Muppet?
His solution is to get on and clear more vegetation, but this is only for his corporate buddies, not about bush management.

admittedly from Greenpeace, but the links within speak for themselves. undoubtedly both sides of our esteemed system with noses so deep in the troughs that it is hard to see a way out

you could do a similar piece on the renewables industry and the left.

we get the muppets we deserve.

Barnaby case in point for sure but no worse than that rabid dog christine milne of the greens when she was propping up the gillard minority govt. We would have had an emissions trading scheme for over a decade now were it not for her idealism.

they got nothing on Gina, Barnaby and Liberal Party colleagues and their friends Rupert Murdoch

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boofta said..
There you go Chris, now you have deduced how black plastic tubing can absorb less heat from the sun over time
God help you, and all your crazy believers zealots

"Deduce"???? Did you miss the part where I mentioned I use to work in the industry (and yes, the systems we installed were black tubing) and where the industry itself says that the systems may become less efficient as things like pumps age or minor leaks develop? Since when is knowledge gained from working in an industry - knowledge confirmed by others as a Google search about system lifespans will show you - a mere "deduction"?

Did you also miss the part where FN pointed out that the smoke and haze has reduced the efficiency of solar systems this summer, as noted here;

www.domain.com.au/news/snowball-effect-bushfire-smoke-reduces-solar-panel-efficiency-increases-load-on-coal-fired-power-920909/

and here;

www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/how-bushfire-smoke-is-altering-the-efficiency-of-solar-panels/

and here;

www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2020/01/20/where-theres-smoke-theres-reduced-pv-output/

It's not a deduction to say that smoke and haze have reduced the efficiency of solar systems this summer, it's a fact. Therefore if your pool is cooler than usual it is highly likely to be because your solar heating is not working as well. And of course, the idea that people should discard scientific measurements of the entire globe in favour of one person's memories of the temperatures of one swimming pool is bizarre indeed. It seems to show an amazing degree of egocentric thinking.