So there's no use asking Pete what he thinks of this!
Intuitively, I favor the big crunch end off the universe, leading to another big bang.
But that idea is now not supported.
Here's the latest I've come across, a bubble of vacuum energy expanding at light speed, gobbling up everything.

Any thoughts?

" Vacuum decay, a process that could end the universe as we know it, may happen 10,000 times sooner than expected. Fortunately, it still won't happen for a very, very long time. When physicists speak of "the vacuum," the term sounds as though it refers to empty space, and in a sense it does. More specifically, it refers to a set of defaults, like settings on a control board. When the quantum fields that permeate space sit at these default values, you consider space to be empty. Small tweaks to the settings create particles - turn the electromagnetic field up a bit, and you get a photon. Big tweaks, on the other hand, are best thought of as new defaults altogether. They create a different definition of empty space, with different traits. One quantum field is special because its default value can change. Called the Higgs field, it controls the mass of many fundamental particles, like electrons and quarks. Unlike every other quantum field physicists have discovered, the Higgs field has a default value above zero. Dialing the Higgs field value up or down would increase or decrease the mass of electrons and other particles. If the setting of the Higgs field were zero, those particles would be massless. We could stay at the nonzero default for eternity, were it not for quantum mechanics. A quantum field can "tunnel," jumping to a new, lower-energy value even if it doesn't have enough energy to pass through the higher-energy intermediate settings, an effect akin to tunneling through a solid wall. For this to happen, you need to have a lower-energy state to tunnel to. And before building the Large Hadron Collider, physicists thought that the current state of the Higgs field could be the lowest. That belief has now changed. The curve that represents the energy required for different settings of the Higgs field was always known to resemble a sombrero with an upturned brim. The current setting of the Higgs field can be pictured as a ball resting at the bottom of the brim.





Mark Belan for Quanta Magazine

However, subtle quantum corrections can change the shape of the curve. Quantum fields feed energy back and forth between one another. The quantum interactions between electrons and the electromagnetic field shift the energy levels of atoms, for instance - an effect discovered in the 1940s. For the Higgs field, the curvature of the sombrero's brim is determined by the mass of the Higgs boson, the elementary particle that conveys the Higgs field's effects, which was discovered at the Large Hadron Collider in 2012. Further corrections to the shape of the curve come from particles that interact strongly with the Higgs: those with high mass like the top quark, the heaviest known elementary particle. By comparing the mass of the Higgs boson to that of the top quark, physicists now think that the sombrero most likely dips down again. At a much higher setting of the Higgs field, there's a lower-energy state.





In that case, the Higgs field should eventually tunnel to that state, or "decay." This decay would start in one place and then spread, a spherical bubble growing at the speed of light, transforming the universe. Fundamental particles would become much heavier, so that they would be drawn together by gravity more strongly than the other forces held them apart. Atoms would collapse.
Related:How the Physics of Nothing Underlies EverythingThe Physics Still Hiding in the Higgs BosonA New Map of All the Particles and Forces

We won't tunnel to that higher Higgs setting any time soon, though. Physicists estimate the chances of vacuum decay in different ways. In the most direct method, they keep an account of the different transformations that would be necessary to get the field from one value to the other - transformations that violate the conservation of energy, which quantum mechanics allows to briefly happen - weighting each scenario according to how greatly it violates rules like energy conservation. According to these estimates, a cubic gigaparsec of space will see vacuum decay once every 10794 years, or the digit 1 followed by 794 zeros - an absurd span of time. Only 1010 years have passed so far since the Big Bang.Recently, a group of physicists in Slovenia claimed to have found a small error in the calculation, one that quickens the end of the universe as we know it to 10790 years, instead of 10794. While a change by a factor of 10,000 may seem huge, it is much smaller than the uncertainty from other parts of the calculation. Most important: None of these uncertainties are big enough to cut through the eons that lie between us and the horrors of vacuum decay.




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decrepit said.. Without all the quotes

So there's no use asking Pete what he thinks of this!
Intuitively, I favor the big crunch end off the universe, leading to another big bang.
But that idea is now not supported.
Here's the latest I've come across, a bubble of vacuum energy expanding at light speed, gobbling up everything.

Any thoughts?

"



Vacuum decay, a process that could end the universe as we know it, may happen 10,000 times sooner than expected. Fortunately, it still won't happen for a very, very long time. When physicists speak of "the vacuum," the term sounds as though it refers to empty space, and in a sense it does. More specifically, it refers to a set of defaults, like settings on a control board. When the quantum fields that permeate space sit at these default values, you consider space to be empty. Small tweaks to the settings create particles - turn the electromagnetic field up a bit, and you get a photon. Big tweaks, on the other hand, are best thought of as new defaults altogether. They create a different definition of empty space, with different traits. One quantum field is special because its default value can change. Called the Higgs field, it controls the mass of many fundamental particles, like electrons and quarks. Unlike every other quantum field physicists have discovered, the Higgs field has a default value above zero. Dialing the Higgs field value up or down would increase or decrease the mass of electrons and other particles. If the setting of the Higgs field were zero, those particles would be massless. We could stay at the nonzero default for eternity, were it not for quantum mechanics. A quantum field can "tunnel," jumping to a new, lower-energy value even if it doesn't have enough energy to pass through the higher-energy intermediate settings, an effect akin to tunneling through a solid wall. For this to happen, you need to have a lower-energy state to tunnel to. And before building the Large Hadron Collider, physicists thought that the current state of the Higgs field could be the lowest. That belief has now changed. The curve that represents the energy required for different settings of the Higgs field was always known to resemble a sombrero with an upturned brim. The current setting of the Higgs field can be pictured as a ball resting at the bottom of the brim.

d2r55xnwy6nx47.cloudfront.net/uploads/2024/07/VacuumDecay-Fig1-crMarkBelan-Mobile-v1-03.svg

Mark Belan for Quanta Magazine


However, subtle quantum corrections can change the shape of the curve. Quantum fields feed energy back and forth between one another. The quantum interactions between electrons and the electromagnetic field shift the energy levels of atoms, for instance - an effect discovered in the 1940s. For the Higgs field, the curvature of the sombrero's brim is determined by the mass of the Higgs boson, the elementary particle that conveys the Higgs field's effects, which was discovered at the Large Hadron Collider in 2012. Further corrections to the shape of the curve come from particles that interact strongly with the Higgs: those with high mass like the top quark, the heaviest known elementary particle. By comparing the mass of the Higgs boson to that of the top quark, physicists now think that the sombrero most likely dips down again. At a much higher setting of the Higgs field, there's a lower-energy state.

d2r55xnwy6nx47.cloudfront.net/uploads/2024/07/VacuumDecay-Fig2-crMarkBelan-Mobile-v1-04.svg

In that case, the Higgs field should eventually tunnel to that state, or "decay." This decay would start in one place and then spread, a spherical bubble growing at the speed of light, transforming the universe. Fundamental particles would become much heavier, so that they would be drawn together by gravity more strongly than the other forces held them apart. Atoms would collapse.
Related:How the Physics of Nothing Underlies EverythingThe Physics Still Hiding in the Higgs BosonA New Map of All the Particles and Forces

We won't tunnel to that higher Higgs setting any time soon, though. Physicists estimate the chances of vacuum decay in different ways. In the most direct method, they keep an account of the different transformations that would be necessary to get the field from one value to the other - transformations that violate the conservation of energy, which quantum mechanics allows to briefly happen - weighting each scenario according to how greatly it violates rules like energy conservation. According to these estimates, a cubic gigaparsec of space will see vacuum decay once every 10794 years, or the digit 1 followed by 794 zeros - an absurd span of time. Only 1010 years have passed so far since the Big Bang.Recently, a group of physicists in Slovenia claimed to have found a small error in the calculation, one that quickens the end of the universe as we know it to 10790 years, instead of 10794. While a change by a factor of 10,000 may seem huge, it is much smaller than the uncertainty from other parts of the calculation. Most important: None of these uncertainties are big enough to cut through the eons that lie between us and the horrors of vacuum decay.





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Thanks Elmo, that will teach me not to check my post.

My personal fav is the hypothetical heat death of the universe. When it's all spread out... black holes have consumed everything there is and died themselves. What I find most interesting is if there was to be any human/sentient life in that long distant future, given the speed of light over those incomprehensible times and distances, any understanding of cosmological physics would be very different to ours. There may well not be anything visible in those distant night skies as all light from other stars, galaxies etc... is so far away that there is no means to capture it.

I think that all this has done is make me feel like I want to believe in a flat-earth. A simple thing that I can understand and refer to a book of quotes if I get stuck.

It will all be over when I die anyway, so anything after that is theoretical.

But trying to understand the universe is impossible. We cannot know what isn't there, only what is. Does it last once or does it repeat? Does it come back down to a crunch and start again in exactly the same place it did the first time? How can there ever be a 'first time'?

I think Turtles and Elephants make for a more content life. With a vengeful god thrown in every now and then for good measure.

Things were certainly simpler with Newton.
I wonder if this Relativity and Quantum stuff, is that vengeful God punishing us, for being so presumptive to imagine we can plumb the depths of his workings

So..

When the universe ends and there is nothing, the unvierse will still comprise the same stuff, just that it will be different stuff, which will be nothing.

Creator: you want to know how the habitat I made for you works?
Human: Yep
Creator: Because I told it to
Human: that's a bit of a cop out answer, we want to know specifics
Creator: ok, are you ready for this?
Human: yep
Creator: no, seriously! You should get a pen and write this down.
Human: Yeah, all good to go here
Creator: Alrighty.....
#deep breath#

................"Space Magic"

Human:............ Seriously?
Creator: What? That's how I did it!
Human: I reckon you've got no idea, I bet you're not even responsible for all this!
Creator: Yeah, I am! I just spoke the words and turned the lights on and stuff. I'm all powerful!
Human: Jog on mate, go sell your schtick to some other sucker, we don't need your kind round here.
Create: ..... You can't say stuff like that to me!
Human: Can and just did. What are you going to do about it?
Creator: .... I'll, I'll, I'll.... I'll Smite You!
Human: Go On Then! Bring it!

#cricket noises for millenia #

Select to expand quote

Brent in Qld said..
..There may well not be anything visible in those distant night skies as all light from other stars, galaxies etc... is so far away that there is no means to capture it.

..but the light you see from distant stars isn't at the distant star. When you see it it is at your eye, you don't have to sort of 'capture' it from far away. The distant star may not even exist anymore, although perhaps the light at your eye is the distant star, even though it doesn't exist.

... argh sorry might have read that wrong. If the universe did get big with everything spreadout and so far away the light arriving from each object simply became undetectable to the future evolved human eye.

Do people get wiser or more stuck in their ways as they age?

Just ageneral question, that I'm asking for a friend.

They get stuck on scientism otherwise known as their science. Even japie is not immune.

You know bendy water and all

Select to expand quote

Pcdefender said..
They get stuck on scientism otherwise known as their science. Even japie is not immune.

You know bendy water and all

Are you stuck in your ways or have you become wiser. Pete?

Has there ever been any comment on this forum, that made you stroke your beard with your fore fingers and made you consider.....

Hey, maybe Bono has got a valid point,?

I am open to anything. Will take a look which seems to be a lot more than others do here.

I bet few on here are going to check out Neil Olivers channel.

Select to expand quote

decrepit said..
Things were certainly simpler with Newton.
I wonder if this Relativity and Quantum stuff, is that vengeful God punishing us, for being so presumptive to imagine we can plumb the depths of his workings

If there is some one in touch with the Almighty on a regular basis, I reckon it might be worth checking out the shape of the brim of God's sombrero and perhaps get it turned up at the edges some more.

Select to expand quote

fangman said..

decrepit said..
Things were certainly simpler with Newton.
I wonder if this Relativity and Quantum stuff, is that vengeful God punishing us, for being so presumptive to imagine we can plumb the depths of his workings

If there is some one in touch with the Almighty on a regular basis, I reckon it might be worth checking out the shape of the brim of God's sombrero and perhaps get it turned up at the edges some more.

I wish the almighty would teach smoke alarm manufacturers to make smoke alarms that don't f**king pick 3am to start chirping.

now i'm up reading shooting the breeze dribble at 4am because i can't get back to sleep.

An interesting first step article for those happy to dig a little deeper. By no means comprehensive but a reasonable intro to some competing ideas on the subject.

pablorosado.com/posts/the-end-of-the-universe/#:~:text=Scenario%202%3A%20The%20Universe%20ends%20abruptly&text=But%20now%20it%20doesn't,of%20a%20reversed%20Big%20Bang.

There's also a book that someone prepared earlier. Might fast track the 100 Seabreeze pages of bla, bla, bla...
The End of Everything, Katie Mack.

Select to expand quote

myscreenname said..
Do people get wiser or more stuck in their ways as they age?

Just ageneral question, that I'm asking for a friend.

I think they get angrier from what I have seen. Your BFF Crack and talk will read this too, so you can compare notes.

There is a reason that very few older people identify as angry or stuck in their ways

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said...
I think they get angrier from what I have seen. Your BFF Crack and talk will read this too, so you can compare notes.

Hey, maybe FormulaNova has got a valid point.

Then again I dunno why FN has got his knickers in such a twist about this Crack and talk poster.

There was a time when they used to agree about most things, including approriate and respectful ways to disagree with somebody else's opinion.

FN seemed to just get very upset when Crack and talk suggested the political response to Covid was driven by petty politics and not by medical science. For some reason yet to be explained FN didn't like that suggestion so much that he decided he must never hear anything of the like ever again for at least the next 10^794 years.

Maybe this happens ?.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
There is a reason that very few older people identify as angry or stuck in their ways

It all makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing. I will discuss this chart with my aging friend while gently stroking our wispy beards.

Select to expand quote

D3 said..
Creator: you want to know how the habitat I made for you works?
Human: Yep
Creator: Because I told it to
Human: that's a bit of a cop out answer, we want to know specifics
Creator: ok, are you ready for this?
Human: yep
Creator: no, seriously! You should get a pen and write this down.
Human: Yeah, all good to go here
Creator: Alrighty.....
#deep breath#

................"Space Magic"

Human:............ Seriously?
Creator: What? That's how I did it!
Human: I reckon you've got no idea, I bet you're not even responsible for all this!
Creator: Yeah, I am! I just spoke the words and turned the lights on and stuff. I'm all powerful!
Human: Jog on mate, go sell your schtick to some other sucker, we don't need your kind round here.
Create: ..... You can't say stuff like that to me!
Human: Can and just did. What are you going to do about it?
Creator: .... I'll, I'll, I'll.... I'll Smite You!
Human: Go On Then! Bring it!

#cricket noises for millenia #

I like the premise but your really putting a hat ontop of a hat with all that setup and dialogue lets run it thru ai see if we can cut a few seconds for ya


And here we go!

Here's a shortened version of the joke:

Creator: Want to know how I made your habitat?
Human: Yeah!
Creator: Space Magic!
Human: Seriously?
Creator: Yeah, I'm all-powerful!
Human: Jog on, mate! We don't need your kind here.
Creator: I'll Smite You!
Human: Go on then! Bring it!
#cricket noises for millennia#

This version keeps the core of the joke, with the creator's ridiculous claim of "Space Magic" and the human's skeptical response, followed by the creator's empty threat of "Smite You" and the human's daring them to do it, ending with the humorous #cricket noises for millennia#.


Pretty cool huh?

Wait... i wonder what happens if i put one of my the only true use of ALL aspects of kiteboarding is unhooked freestyle rants about how its boots and unhooked loops or just go sailing or surfing or trampolineing ..... hmmm....