Hello everyone!

Looking at getting my first boat and will use for fishing lakes estuaries and bays...possibly when i have the balls through the heads. So want to buy once.

My opinion is that 5.75 Hard top, Bar Crusher and Surtees are the same thing, so buy whichever is cheaper?

I do like the larger window on Stabi, but less space..

Can you help me with my decision? I will have small kids on the boat as well.

Turn time back a few years and don't get married or have kids.
That way you can get a bigger flash boat

I didn't know Yoda was in this forum!!!

None of the above. They are overpriced mass produced shxt. Which region do you live?

5.7 m with a hardtop would be horrible it would lean hard into the wind . Go a fiberglass cuddy cab with covers. Or a runabout with ample deck space.

Yodo here,

on a serious note, why a big tinny, whats you price range, what other factors are influencing you?
I recently picked up a 6m glass half cab with a decent size motor, I can ski, fish, camp, cruise etc and loven it.

They are all blue water/ocean boats built for crossing bars.
A hard top will reduce fishing room significantly and add to the weight as said.
its rare to find the correct boat first time especially as its your first(it seems)
you would be looking at 50 -70k for those brands new depending on fit off.

ali is great for a first boat as you can bump into things and not be as concerned. I would go see a builder , tell them want you want to do and see what plans they show you. you may even be more suited to a bowrider.

why not a quinny or equivalent?

Have done the ally boat thing and depending on your area if you have good ramps and always in deep water then I would recommend glass. My current glass boat is now 20 years old and will last another 20. My ally boats only lasted a few years until corrosion taking over. But of course it depends on your area of use.

I live in Melbourne...close to the Patterson river which is where I will launch the boat from. I guess I am looking for a boat that I feel safe in, having a boat with hiding place for kids when it gets windy, rainy or if they get board...
want something under 6 meters. I like the idea of plate aluminium as it is said to be less noisy and last longer as opposed to a tinny. Fiberglass is expensive...
will mainly fish but also ski and cruise around...
budget is 50-60k

Have a friend that has a similar length Surtees, and an awesome boat.

He has many trips 80kms+ each way, alongside my 7.2m glass boat, and is an awesome performer.

Just don't underpower it, need some decent horses for optimum performance.

The Surtees you can shut off the hollow bottom, the bar crusher you can't. The benefit there is it adds weight and stability when you are either not at planing speed in a messy sea, or let's you smash it apart at planing speed rather than being bounced around.

The quinnies don't have a self draining deck and are a much lighter build than the Surtees and Stabi.

A friend of mine traded his 6.5 fibreglass cuddy for a 5.7m Surteess and both him and I reckon it is a more versatile boat because of the toughness of the Ali. Fibreglass does ride softer though. I have an 18' fibreglass cuddy cab for the kids to shelter in, but I have to be a lot more careful where and how I launch. Really I prefer two people. With his Ali it doesn't matter so much.

Ali does corrode faster than fibreglass rots though.

As someone else said, make sure you get ample power.

My next boat will probably be a Stabi 5m or so. Or maybe a cat of some description. Sometimes smaller is better - less hassle to deal with, cheaper to run and still going most places most of the time. The extra stability is very appealing to me.

I have mates with open boats. I much prefer cabins down south as it provides great shelter from the cold wind and spray. Large open boats are best suited to the tropics in my opinion, even if fishing space is slightly compromised. But it isn't that much of a hassle. Being cold, wet and miserable on the other hand sucks balls.

A few points mentioned above, that I forgot to mention.

The option of flooding the "ballast" is one of the awesome things with the Surtees. Makes a fishing trip so much more comfortable while drifting.

It can also be used to punch through elevated seas with amazing ease and comfort, compared with an unweighted ali hull. That's without factoring in the reduced stress on the boat pounding, just to stay high in the water.

Another friend of mine got back to shore by deliberately taking on water, so as to reduce the slamming effect of heavy seas on the hull, and it worked.

Where is JB ????

Me and mate went halves in old 6metre hull then blinged it with a new Suzuki 140 Way cheaper option, Pacemakers and a handful of other boats are indestructible if you know what your looking at.
Ali is great for the first 7 years then its a headeache and costly to fix.

look into and American import like trophy seafox if your looking at fiberglass mabe! Good luck !

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busterwa said...
Me and mate went halves in old 6metre hull then blinged it with a new Suzuki 140 Way cheaper option, Pacemakers and a handful of other boats are indestructible if you know what your looking at.
Ali is great for the first 7 years then its a headeache and costly to fix.

look into and American import like trophy seafox if your looking at fiberglass mabe! Good luck !

I picked up a pacemaker trendsetter for $3000 ..I then put on a Rebuilt Johno, new 2 pac paint job, interior gutted and redone and full storm covers .. All up $18000, I've had the boat 8 years and it's still going strong. I have a 18 month old son and have no problems trusting my boat with him on it. Newer isn't always better and $50-$60 thousand for your first 6 meter boat.. Really

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Cassa said..
Where is JB ????

Was just letting everyone have their say. I agree i think a hard top for under a 6 mtr is too much weight up high. Will tend to make the boat roll and hold a bit too much for my liking.

Surtees and Barcrusher both have a lock off bilge option. The Bar crusher has a electronic system as the Surtees has a manual system. Ie spring and rope. Around that size your talking you will be around 300 to 350 litres of water that can also be used as weight for when your travelling. It really helps with ride but obviously will increase fuel burn. Also need to be careful to have enough power to carry the extra weight. But the advantage in rough weather is great.

Also i like trim tabs on both boats. They will help even more with ride. The disadvantage of flooding style boats is they sit deeper in the water so you need more water to float them. They are Not so popular up North with big tides. Often meaning More sitting around having to weight before a days fishing. I don't know the area you are from so cant comment on the river and launching ramps and suitability.

The obvious storage benefits of both boats with the flip down top and windscreen is a bonus.

I wouldn't agree with importing anything from the states.

Glass boats generally do ride better, but the BC and Surtees are very good. Expensive but worth it.

Hope that helps.

Thanks a lot for all the comments! Gives me plenty to think about.

I liked the hard top however have not considered the wind factor but it makes sense.

I am also surprised to hear about corrosion issues, i thought these hulls would last forever.

I really do like glass boats, in the sense that they look nicer however it just feels like you get better bang for your buck on a plate boat.

Fortunately no one says to outright stay away from these boats. I do have to say though that i feel the BCs seem better finished as opposed to Surtees and a fraction cheaper. I like the lower dash on the Stabi...

I need to go for test drives...

Cheers

also throw mclay into the mix. personally I have a bullet boat (custom plate) bill plug design. big reverse chine, does the job well for me.

the boats mentioned are narrow to help with their handling under way (punching through waves). the flood tanks are there to combat this - again its all about bar crossings for that design/make.

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holden said..
also throw mclay into the mix. personally I have a bullet boat (custom plate) bill plug design. big reverse chine, does the job well for me.

the boats mentioned are narrow to help with their handling under way (punching through waves). the flood tanks are there to combat this - again its all about bar crossings for that design/make.

I wouldn't really agree with saying they are built for bar crossings sorry. There are designed for rough water and by keeping the beam down and the dead rise higher they help punch through big waves and swell. The flooding keel is then used to sink the boat deeper into the water to make the chines activate for stability at rest. For that reason they are also not a self draining deck as like most ali boats, simply because the deck level is deeper than the water line. This also means they can be subject to a little more hold/roll under way and for that reason i like the trim tab option. Also another reason why a hard top on anything under 6 m is not advised.

The Stabi's are an amazing craft. Not that popular in WA because they tend to trap in too much heat for our conditions. They are built for a colder climate in mind IE NZ or Victoria and Tassy they are ideal. They also tend to hold the hard top better because of their unique hull shape.

The comments about Bar crushers having a higher level of finish than the Surtees is valid. I think though its maybe more the Bar crusher has a little more features as the owner of Bar Crusher is a very clever bloke and really understands his market. One of the best I've known to date TBH. Id say price normally i have seen the Bar crushers are more expensive usually. If your seeing the opposite way around in your area it could be a dealer network thing. The best option is to really do your home work and when you start getting final prices get 100% everything in writing as to what exactly is included.

The WA market is experiencing a boom in these two brands because of a strong network of new dealers. Used boats being re powered is at a all time high as people tend to not be investing on upgrades like they were 5 years ago. The market right across Australia is feeling down turn though so their are some good buys to be had if your smart and do your homework..

Please don't ask options on engines though, thats another entire thread

Thanks JB, sounds like you know your stuff!!

What do you think of the comments regarding corrosion after 7 years?

I think I am leaning towards the Stabi with what you are saying RE hardtop being better on their smaller boats. I do want to stay dry as much as possible.

Thanks for the comments!

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johnjvv said..
Thanks JB, sounds like you know your stuff!!

What do you think of the comments regarding corrosion after 7 years?

I think I am leaning towards the Stabi with what you are saying RE hardtop being better on their smaller boats. I do want to stay dry as much as possible.

Thanks for the comments!

Sorry i didn't see the comments regarding corrosion. But all ali boats CAN corrode for sure. Mostly from dissimilar metals, like stainless screws, incorrect reverts but also can come from water sitting in compartments or even from electronic interference.

Ali corrosion is a bigger problem than osmosis (in fibreglass) but really if the boats are handled correctly and looked after neither should ever be a big concern. I have never seen or heard of any corrosion problems with either brands. I have seen paint stripped of a surtees but it was more of a isolated incident IMHO.

Paint on Ali boats will always suffer from bubbling problems. Many people think this is corrosion but in reality its just dirt getting under and lifting the paint. Its an issue you kinda have to accept with ali and painted boats. Many people opt for no paint, the Stabi's i think do that a bit also. Both brands in discussion will cut an drill all holes at factory generally so its maybe not as a bad as some others. But then you obviously pay for that service in the inflated price.

As for staying dry i understand that. As i said in WA the heat often means her stops are not popular. Were you are it gets cold and people want more protection, so a different market than what some on here are looking at. A classic comparison is the Whittley range of boats, they tend to be like big caravans on water. A good WA designed and built boat is often large open rear deck and only a smaller cabin, for bunking only.

I found an old 2002 price list for the Bar crushers the other day. Oh how the times have changed

Aluminium boats ride poorly. You still need to worry about paint, cracks etc. Glass can be repaired just as easilly. (more easily really)
Stabi crafts and surtees are massively overpriced
I would be looking at a calssic haines like a 565L or 580sf that has had the floor and transom replaced with a late model engine. Circa low 30's depending on electronics. Will kick any aluminium boats arse in perrformance ride, last a lot longer. Drier, faster. And you will be able to sell it probably for what you paid for it if you buy well after several years if you want to change

Those Whittleys do look nice, they are actually priced similarly with the Bar Crushers and might be a better family boat...but, but....

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myusernam said..
Aluminium boats ride poorly. You still need to worry about paint, cracks etc. Glass can be repaired just as easilly. (more easily really)
Stabi crafts and surtees are massively overpriced
I would be looking at a calssic haines like a 565L or 580sf that has had the floor and transom replaced with a late model engine. Circa low 30's depending on electronics. Will kick any aluminium boats arse in perrformance ride, last a lot longer. Drier, faster. And you will be able to sell it probably for what you paid for it if you buy well after several years if you want to change

Similar to this... paid $15k for a 5.9m Fraser last year (took nearly a year to find).
Functionally perfect, Cosmetically needing some love. (Being my first boat I was sure to put some more more "kisses" on it ;)
Not too big for handling at the ramp but big enough for open ocean (Been to Rotto twice)


High sides and rails for the kids, cabin for the kids, back deck, full camper covers. The wife loves it (she was most dubious about getting a boat)


Not quite as stable at rest as my mates similar sized Trailcraft, but once moving in the chop its miles apart in comfort.

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myusernam said..
Aluminium boats ride poorly. You still need to worry about paint, cracks etc. Glass can be repaired just as easilly. (more easily really)
Stabi crafts and surtees are massively overpriced
I would be looking at a calssic haines like a 565L or 580sf that has had the floor and transom replaced with a late model engine. Circa low 30's depending on electronics. Will kick any aluminium boats arse in perrformance ride, last a lot longer. Drier, faster. And you will be able to sell it probably for what you paid for it if you buy well after several years if you want to change

As a general rule yes, ali boats ride harsh, but to be far have you been in any of the three ali boats in question

Yes a 565 haines is an amazing hull, having said that I've seen many with delaminating floor issues especially around the drivers bulk head and just inside the deck as you step in. All boats have their negatives.

The 580 is my favourite set up. Great size and they tend to sit nice and low on a trailer. Easier to wash, and stow away under cover. But a little tender due to their narrow hull, but its a play of between ride and stability.

The other thing to remember is personal choice, many people buy simply on how a boat looks. Each to their own

I've had my Swiss cat for 12 years now
They're available in 15/18/24 ft,
I've got the 15, I cross from Denham to dirk Hartog quite often and have done this in 25 knots southerly, firstly it carnt sink due to the hulls being fully foam filled, beautifully balanced ride especially in rough/ choppy conditions, very wide hull for its size gives it great stability and hardly any movement,self draining deck, hardly any draught which allows me to get into spots a conventional hull doesn't, I've mates with much larger boats , mostly Ali and find them a very rough ride in similar conditions, theses boats are heavily used as rescue boats in Europe and by waterways police, she's still in great nick, only down side is she's a fair bit heavier, so an extra few hp on motor is desirable but not necessary

I come here for clarity and I will leave with a hundred more questions!!

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johnjvv said..
I come here for clarity and I will leave with a hundred more questions!!

Hence it took me a year to find my first...

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cauncy said..
I've had my Swiss cat for 12 years now
They're available in 15/18/24 ft,
I've got the 15, I cross from Denham to dirk Hartog quite often and have done this in 25 knots southerly, firstly it carnt sink due to the hulls being fully foam filled, beautifully balanced ride especially in rough/ choppy conditions, very wide hull for its size gives it great stability and hardly any movement,self draining deck, hardly any draught which allows me to get into spots a conventional hull doesn't, I've mates with much larger boats , mostly Ali and find them a very rough ride in similar conditions, theses boats are heavily used as rescue boats in Europe and by waterways police, she's still in great nick, only down side is she's a fair bit heavier, so an extra few hp on motor is desirable but not necessary

No need to give too much away Cauncy.

Hoping to pick my boat by the next Melbourne boat show and crunching a deal on motor and electronics...in no massive rush...

I am starting to lean towards glass now, looked at the whittleys today, they look pretty comfortable for kids and family. The plate boats are quite hard core..i guess its like getting a 70 series landcruiser as opposed to an SR5 Hilux...I think that if the boat is more comfortable, i will have a better chance of using it more...

Ive been looking to get myself a plate side console boat for many months now without much luck! Look at AMM ( Australian master marine) these are the best boats I have come across but with the price tag to match! Closely followed by www.extremeboats.nz In plate boats make sure the material grades are HIGH (5083) otherwise your basically buying an expensive aspirin. Many boats are mass produced to very poor standard in china and here! I also went to the Sydney boat show and came away very disappointed as most of the small trailer boats there were for the MCMANSION market (cheapo nasty boats for people to use once or twice a year). My must haves are on a plate boat are : self draining alloy deck ( no rotting stinky fish plywood carpet) , 4 STROKE motor preferably to the max HP for the boat, 5083 alloy grade or above, If buying new everything is drilled, cut and welded prior to paint to prevent paint flaking / bubbling, a good solid trailer (with spare) and make sure it is a PLATE boat not a lookalike with 3mm pressed sheets!!! I also think its impossible to have the perfect boat!!