www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-09/video-shows-shark-slamming-into-diving-cage/6924376

The speed and accuracy of the shark is amazing. It's probably not scared of people anymore - so I wouldn't want to be doing the morning swim "across the bay" with this shark about.

About a month ago at Lennox, there was a meeting where various people, from government to shark experts, talked about the issues in Northern NSW. The researchers showed charts of the movements of great whites. They didn't show lines of movement from South Australia (or Africa) to NSW, but they hadn't tagged that many either. They showed lines of movement across the Tasman and from around Gladstone to northern Tasmania - so these sharks move around a lot - seemingly random.

The NSW government has just allocated $16 million to the "shark problem" - watching this video you might think the problem is with people! Perhaps a %age of these dollars should be allocated to compensating the cage diving operators to go do something else?

Its doing the rounds on housobook. When its slowed down you can see the teaser bait in front dragged straight across the top of cage , so it appears to bang into the cage accidently?

Pretty irresponsible I say.

Is it a white or a mako???

yep......... dickheads did that vid !!

Select to expand quote

Hausey said...
www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-09/video-shows-shark-slamming-into-diving-cage/6924376

The speed and accuracy of the shark is amazing. It's probably not scared of people anymore - so I wouldn't want to be doing the morning swim "across the bay" with this shark about.

About a month ago at Lennox, there was a meeting where various people, from government to shark experts, talked about the issues in Northern NSW. The researchers showed charts of the movements of great whites. They didn't show lines of movement from South Australia (or Africa) to NSW, but they hadn't tagged that many either. They showed lines of movement across the Tasman and from around Gladstone to northern Tasmania - so these sharks move around a lot - seemingly random.

The NSW government has just allocated $16 million to the "shark problem" - watching this video you might think the problem is with people! Perhaps a %age of these dollars should be allocated to compensating the cage diving operators to go do something else?

shark trained by humans to attack humans
alpha predator......lets go feed the lions by hand and see what happens.....
tge seemingly random movements in the tasman are in line with the tuna cycle of spawn migrate and grow..on the west coast we have whales sept-november some ofthese sharks do the tuna run than hang around come across the bottom and wait for the whales to get to gero-kalbarri,stalk them down past perth and into margies before completing the circuit again...
The other ones do the run from the tasman up to lennox and broken head to wait for the whales on the east coast, similar time of year august-nov.......
One part of it is they in general stop at around the same latitude either side of the coast where water temps become warmer....
A shark has to be around 20 years old (great white) before it has the jaw strength to eat a mammal(seal/human) this also is about the same time they have been protected but also are not scared of humans in fact are encouraged to relate people with food..
Coupled in with the whale population booming and offshore tuna being in lower numbers due to foreign flagged vessels hammering tuna stock in australian waters. (legally and under australian licenses no ****tttt).
It is of note though that many of these boats illegaly unload at sea onto other foreign vessels to ensure they are " above board" when they unload in aussie ports and not blow there quota.....
That along with crayboats no longer being able to catch bycatch ( sharks through shark hooks on cray floats)
has allowed huge huge huge population growth.
The sad thing is that they cannot be untrained,scientists still dont know how long they live and ages in excess of 100 years are agreed to be not only realistic but quite possibly a gross underestimate..
When you were kids there was always a scary dog that you would have to walk past on the way to school. For a laugh most kids would drag a stick along the fence to really rev the dog up.....Its not right you say,you cant do that,..Well this and worse is what we have done with these sharks, imagine what would of happened if the domesticated dog got through the fence.....
Sharks have memory and are habitual feeders,if a whale washes up on a beach and a white gets a feed every time he is on his circuit he will return to that beach on the way through, The shark attacks at cottesloe over the space of several years can only be put down to one or at most two different sharks..
In the 70s a huge whale washed up on the beach and was there for months and months, every shark for miles got a feed or five ...You may say yeah but there was no attacks for 30-40years after and you would be correct, this actually just re-inforces the point even more, because the same sharks that would swim past on their circuit every year never thought of humans as food until the 2000s when shark cage diving became a "thing"...
so between the twenty year old sharks who are young pups learning new tricks and the old sharks who have the system wired and only recently related people to food we are doing a stirling job of training them up to hunt humans and attack them...
Please remember too that in most of the recent attacks people werent mistakenly bitten and let go they were hunted and eaten..A shark does not accidently eat some one...

Solution,,,,Ban shark cage diving and muppets hand feeding/training/taunting sharks immediatley,

Kill the sharks that we have now trained and allow the ecosystem to restore itself.
The reality is that until the trained sharks are killed is that attacks will not only keep on increasing but fall into what a shark constitutes as part of its diet.....

We created the monster so therefore are accountable....
Reality sux aye

32 knots because you were wondering.

Spot on Razz. (Unfortunately)

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..

Hausey said...
www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-09/video-shows-shark-slamming-into-diving-cage/6924376

The speed and accuracy of the shark is amazing. It's probably not scared of people anymore - so I wouldn't want to be doing the morning swim "across the bay" with this shark about.

About a month ago at Lennox, there was a meeting where various people, from government to shark experts, talked about the issues in Northern NSW. The researchers showed charts of the movements of great whites. They didn't show lines of movement from South Australia (or Africa) to NSW, but they hadn't tagged that many either. They showed lines of movement across the Tasman and from around Gladstone to northern Tasmania - so these sharks move around a lot - seemingly random.

The NSW government has just allocated $16 million to the "shark problem" - watching this video you might think the problem is with people! Perhaps a %age of these dollars should be allocated to compensating the cage diving operators to go do something else?

shark trained by humans to attack humans
alpha predator......lets go feed the lions by hand and see what happens.....
tge seemingly random movements in the tasman are in line with the tuna cycle of spawn migrate and grow..on the west coast we have whales sept-november some ofthese sharks do the tuna run than hang around come across the bottom and wait for the whales to get to gero-kalbarri,stalk them down past perth and into margies before completing the circuit again...
The other ones do the run from the tasman up to lennox and broken head to wait for the whales on the east coast, similar time of year august-nov.......
One part of it is they in general stop at around the same latitude either side of the coast where water temps become warmer....
A shark has to be around 20 years old (great white) before it has the jaw strength to eat a mammal(seal/human) this also is about the same time they have been protected but also are not scared of humans in fact are encouraged to relate people with food..
Coupled in with the whale population booming and offshore tuna being in lower numbers due to foreign flagged vessels hammering tuna stock in australian waters. (legally and under australian licenses no ****tttt).
It is of note though that many of these boats illegaly unload at sea onto other foreign vessels to ensure they are " above board" when they unload in aussie ports and not blow there quota.....
That along with crayboats no longer being able to catch bycatch ( sharks through shark hooks on cray floats)
has allowed huge huge huge population growth.
The sad thing is that they cannot be untrained,scientists still dont know how long they live and ages in excess of 100 years are agreed to be not only realistic but quite possibly a gross underestimate..
When you were kids there was always a scary dog that you would have to walk past on the way to school. For a laugh most kids would drag a stick along the fence to really rev the dog up.....Its not right you say,you cant do that,..Well this and worse is what we have done with these sharks, imagine what would of happened if the domesticated dog got through the fence.....
Sharks have memory and are habitual feeders,if a whale washes up on a beach and a white gets a feed every time he is on his circuit he will return to that beach on the way through, The shark attacks at cottesloe over the space of several years can only be put down to one or at most two different sharks..
In the 70s a huge whale washed up on the beach and was there for months and months, every shark for miles got a feed or five ...You may say yeah but there was no attacks for 30-40years after and you would be correct, this actually just re-inforces the point even more, because the same sharks that would swim past on their circuit every year never thought of humans as food until the 2000s when shark cage diving became a "thing"...
so between the twenty year old sharks who are young pups learning new tricks and the old sharks who have the system wired and only recently related people to food we are doing a stirling job of training them up to hunt humans and attack them...
Please remember too that in most of the recent attacks people werent mistakenly bitten and let go they were hunted and eaten..A shark does not accidently eat some one...

Solution,,,,Ban shark cage diving and muppets hand feeding/training/taunting sharks immediatley,

Kill the sharks that we have now trained and allow the ecosystem to restore itself.
The reality is that until the trained sharks are killed is that attacks will not only keep on increasing but fall into what a shark constitutes as part of its diet.....

We created the monster so therefore are accountable....
Reality sux aye

Any proof of this or just a educated guess?

Like, how can you know this??

proffesional diver crayfishing abalone skipper for 15 years.
used to do whale watching skippering and work with fisheries marine scientists. met hugh edwards a few times.
did the tuna run and would have to dive and get the sharks outta the cage nets while bringin em back to port.
avid shell collector,
we shouldnt just be tagging the sharks, be better of tagging whales and tuna breeding stock.

i suppose to further my statement, if
anyone could confirm anything stated is incorrect, I would also be happy to be proven wrong...however this has been a ten year long convo with all sorts of ocean users

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..
i suppose to further my statement, if
anyone could confirm anything stated is incorrect, I would also be happy to be proven wrong...however this has been a ten year long convo with all sorts of ocean users

I agree with alot of what you have said but some of it is just speculation imo..

Personally I think they should take the endangered listing off GWS and put a bag limit on them.

The GWS population will never return to the lows that they were during the whale hunts pre 1976 so we are always going to have the problem imo..

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..
i suppose to further my statement, if
anyone could confirm anything stated is incorrect, I would also be happy to be proven wrong...however this has been a ten year long convo with all sorts of ocean users

I guess the problem is worlds scientific community (In Aus thats the CSIRO) all say even though we are seeing more sharks in our local waters, its not because the numbers are at problem levels. In fact they are still saying numbers are dangerously low, so who do we listen too

Just because the science is un popular doesn't make it wrong..

The problem if sharks in our oceans is so much bigger than what people understand. We can't just remove them, we really don't have the answers and i find it hilarious that people demand our government find the answers.

Yet no one is demanding a cure for Cancer, no one is demanding an answer for so many things in life that kill us because they understand its not that easy.

The funniest thing i heard recently has been people complaining about the Volcanoes in Bali. "Something has to be done about them, when will the governments sort them out because they are interrupting holidays and costing people millions in tourist dollars".That was my personal favourite....As if any government can control a Volcano..

Same same for the Worlds Oceans IMHO

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..
...You may say yeah but there was no attacks for 30-40years after and you would be correct, this actually just re-inforces the point even more, because the same sharks that would swim past on their circuit every year never thought of humans as food until the 2000s when shark cage diving became a "thing"...

And kitesurfing.

Select to expand quote

DARTH said...

Razzonater said..
i suppose to further my statement, if
anyone could confirm anything stated is incorrect, I would also be happy to be proven wrong...however this has been a ten year long convo with all sorts of ocean users

I agree with alot of what you have said but some of it is just speculation imo..

Personally I think they should take the endangered listing off GWS and put a bag limit on them.

The GWS population will never return to the lows that they were during the whale hunts pre 1976 so we are always going to have the problem imo..

agree100%

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..
Please remember too that in most of the recent attacks people werent mistakenly bitten and let go they were hunted and eaten.A shark does not accidently eat some one...

A shark is estimated to consume an average of 2-3% of bodyweight per day.


http://www.sharkproject.org/haiothek/index_e.php?site=verhalten_5

If even one shark of 1000kg considered humans to be on the menu it'd consume up to 30kg of human flesh per day. That's one person every 3 days for one shark.

It's obvious to me that sharks just don't consider us to be on the menu. If they did though they'd have no trouble catching enough of us. Well they'd have no trouble for a week or so, because once it became obvious we were on the menu no one would go in the water.

Select to expand quote

Ian K said...

Razzonater said..
Please remember too that in most of the recent attacks people werent mistakenly bitten and let go they were hunted and eaten.A shark does not accidently eat some one...

A shark is estimated to consume an average of 2-3% of bodyweight per day.


http://www.sharkproject.org/haiothek/index_e.php?site=verhalten_5

If even one shark of 1000kg considered humans to be on the menu it'd consume up to 30kg of human flesh per day. That's one person every 3 days for one shark.

It's obvious to me that sharks just don't consider us to be on the menu. If they did though they'd have no trouble catching enough of us. Well they'd have no trouble for a week or so, because once it became obvious we were on the menu no one would go in the water.

please feel free to look at the statistics in relation to increases on attacks on humans and how many are eaten.
I never stated that people are the sole source of food, just that we are now on the menu.

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..

please feel free to look at the statistics in relation to increases on attacks on humans and how many are eaten.
I never stated that people are the sole source of food, just that we are now on the menu.

I've looked but I can't find the stats on number eaten vs. number suffering from an inquisitive nibble. Can you give us the link?

Or just tell us. How many victims were considered eaten, gone without trace, in Australian waters in the last 12 months?

It's indicative that you can be red thumbed on this topic for doing no more than ask a question.

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..
It's indicative that you can be red thumbed on this topic for doing no more than asking a question.

Thats SB for you, ask a question and get shot down

Select to expand quote

DARTH said..

Ian K said..
It's indicative that you can be red thumbed on this topic for doing no more than asking a question.

Thats SB for you, ask a question and get shot down

haha ******s....

Dear thrill seeking knob heads that think baiting a wild animal to crash into a cage is funny and thrilling think again as this can have possibly seriously injured this ancient marine creature!
Not that you would care as long as you received your jollys!
I would suspect you have no interest in wild life and your brain is possibly as small as your male genitals!

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..

Ian K said...

Razzonater said..
Please remember too that in most of the recent attacks people werent mistakenly bitten and let go they were hunted and eaten.A shark does not accidently eat some one...

A shark is estimated to consume an average of 2-3% of bodyweight per day.


http://www.sharkproject.org/haiothek/index_e.php?site=verhalten_5

If even one shark of 1000kg considered humans to be on the menu it'd consume up to 30kg of human flesh per day. That's one person every 3 days for one shark.

It's obvious to me that sharks just don't consider us to be on the menu. If they did though they'd have no trouble catching enough of us. Well they'd have no trouble for a week or so, because once it became obvious we were on the menu no one would go in the water.

please feel free to look at the statistics in relation to increases on attacks on humans and how many are eaten.
I never stated that people are the sole source of food, just that we are now on the menu.

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..

Razzonater said..
Please remember too that in most of the recent attacks people werent mistakenly bitten and let go they were hunted and eaten.A shark does not accidently eat some one...

A shark is estimated to consume an average of 2-3% of bodyweight per day.


http://www.sharkproject.org/haiothek/index_e.php?site=verhalten_5

If even one shark of 1000kg considered humans to be on the menu it'd consume up to 30kg of human flesh per day. That's one person every 3 days for one shark.

It's obvious to me that sharks just don't consider us to be on the menu. If they did though they'd have no trouble catching enough of us. Well they'd have no trouble for a week or so, because once it became obvious we were on the menu no one would go in the water.

No worries for me. Soon the sharkies will have found that fat humans = easier, fulfilling meal, while skinny guys = bony and unsatisfying.

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..

Razzonater said..

please feel free to look at the statistics in relation to increases on attacks on humans and how many are eaten.
I never stated that people are the sole source of food, just that we are now on the menu.

I've looked but I can't find the stats on number eaten vs. number suffering from an inquisitive nibble. Can you give us the link?

Or just tell us. How many victims were considered eaten, gone without trace, in Australian waters in the last 12 months?

I may be wrong but i think the people Raz is referring to having been eaten completely are actually a few people that have simply gone missing at a beach. No actual confirmation of an attack, just a missing person report.

If I'm wrong Razz please feel free to correct me..

Sorry fellas it all looks like it got heated whilst i was working today.
anyway please see below link, hopefully this may get absorbed after reading it...

www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2015/07/shark-attacks-in-australia-a-timeline/

You can also see the correlation between the shark cage diving and people actually getting eaten when you look at the stats in the above,I feel that I have provided more than what is deemed reasonable evidence, however if there is any further doubts please raise them.. Im a bit more transparent than the thousands of "scientits" who have there own "theories" based on what is in the paper.
to be quite honest i would really really really like to be wrong

Select to expand quote

jbshack said...

Ian K said..

Razzonater said..

please feel free to look at the statistics in relation to increases on attacks on humans and how many are eaten.
I never stated that people are the sole source of food, just that we are now on the menu.

I've looked but I can't find the stats on number eaten vs. number suffering from an inquisitive nibble. Can you give us the link?

Or just tell us. How many victims were considered eaten, gone without trace, in Australian waters in the last 12 months?

I may be wrong but i think the people Raz is referring to having been eaten completely are actually a few people that have simply gone missing at a beach. No actual confirmation of an attack, just a missing person report.

If I'm wrong Razz please feel free to correct me..

Hey jb have posted a link above (previous post showinga timeline of attacks which were witnessed and people where actually eaten as opposed to just attacked. Have not include ones where people were swimming and became "missing" however believe Australia wide this is another approx 4-5 a year over last 5-8 years and tapers down to 2-3 before cage diving as "thing" commenced early 2000s on the scale in which its operating today.

Select to expand quote

DARTH said...

Razzonater said..
i suppose to further my statement, if
anyone could confirm anything stated is incorrect, I would also be happy to be proven wrong...however this has been a ten year long convo with all sorts of ocean users

I agree with alot of what you have said but some of it is just speculation imo..

Personally I think they should take the endangered listing off GWS and put a bag limit on them.

The GWS population will never return to the lows that they were during the whale hunts pre 1976 so we are always going to have the problem imo..

Fisheries on the ramp, how'd you go today
Fisher, pretty good, 8 herring, 12 whiting, two 5 mtr great whites, and a flounder

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..




Hey jb have posted a link above (previous post showinga timeline of attacks which were witnessed and people where actually eaten as opposed to just attacked. Have not include ones where people were swimming and became "missing" however believe Australia wide this is another approx 4-5 a year over last 5-8 years and tapers down to 2-3 before cage diving as "thing" commenced early 2000s on the scale in which its operating today.

But the timeline doesn't go back before 2002.

There is a CSIRO paper from the page you provided that says:

Select to expand quote

Abstract.

Although infrequent, shark attacks attract a high level of public and media interest, and often have serious consequences for those attacked. Data from the Australian Shark Attack File were examined to determine trends in unprovoked shark attacks since 1900, particularly over the past two decades. The way people use the ocean has changed over time. The rise in Australian shark attacks, from an average of 6.5 incidents per year in 1990–2000, to 15 incidents per year over the past decade, coincides with an increasing human population, more people visiting beaches, a rise in the popularity of water-based fitness and recreational activities and people accessing previously isolated coastal areas. There is no evidence of increasing shark numbers that would influence the rise of attacks in Australian waters. The risk of a fatality from shark attack in Australia remains low, with an average of 1.1 fatalities year?1 over the past 20 years. The increase in shark attacks over the past two decades is consistent with international statistics of shark attacks increasing annually because of the greater numbers of people in the water.

http://taronga.org.au/sites/default/files/downloads/changing_patterns_of_shark_attacks_in_australian_waters.pdf

While your idea certainly sounds plausible I have yet to see *any* evidence for it. In fact you've provided quite the opposite.

Just sayin' there's no point in barking up the wrong tree.

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..

DARTH said...

Razzonater said..
i suppose to further my statement, if
anyone could confirm anything stated is incorrect, I would also be happy to be proven wrong...however this has been a ten year long convo with all sorts of ocean users

I agree with alot of what you have said but some of it is just speculation imo..

Personally I think they should take the endangered listing off GWS and put a bag limit on them.

The GWS population will never return to the lows that they were during the whale hunts pre 1976 so we are always going to have the problem imo..

Fisheries on the ramp, how'd you go today
Fisher, pretty good, 8 herring, 12 whiting, two 5 mtr great whites, and a flounder

Yea they are not going to be a big catch but could be a tourist thing like game fishing in QLD.

Select to expand quote

evlPanda said...

Razzonater said..




Hey jb have posted a link above (previous post showinga timeline of attacks which were witnessed and people where actually eaten as opposed to just attacked. Have not include ones where people were swimming and became "missing" however believe Australia wide this is another approx 4-5 a year over last 5-8 years and tapers down to 2-3 before cage diving as "thing" commenced early 2000s on the scale in which its operating today.

But the timeline doesn't go back before 2002.

There is a CSIRO paper from the page you provided that says:

Abstract.

Although infrequent, shark attacks attract a high level of public and media interest, and often have serious consequences for those attacked. Data from the Australian Shark Attack File were examined to determine trends in unprovoked shark attacks since 1900, particularly over the past two decades. The way people use the ocean has changed over time. The rise in Australian shark attacks, from an average of 6.5 incidents per year in 1990–2000, to 15 incidents per year over the past decade, coincides with an increasing human population, more people visiting beaches, a rise in the popularity of water-based fitness and recreational activities and people accessing previously isolated coastal areas. There is no evidence of increasing shark numbers that would influence the rise of attacks in Australian waters. The risk of a fatality from shark attack in Australia remains low, with an average of 1.1 fatalities year?1 over the past 20 years. The increase in shark attacks over the past two decades is consistent with international statistics of shark attacks increasing annually because of the greater numbers of people in the water.

http://taronga.org.au/sites/default/files/downloads/changing_patterns_of_shark_attacks_in_australian_waters.pdf

While your idea certainly sounds plausible I have yet to see *any* evidence for it. In fact you've provided quite the opposite.

Just sayin' there's no point in barking up the wrong tree.

The only thing I agree with on the link with is the actual timeline of events; the csiro bases statistics on global population levels, there is a billion people in china who dont surf dive etc.
When you reference the actual victims of the attacks their personal chances have gone up a squillion percent.
Take for instance a local who surfs south point in cowarumuo. From 1960-2010 no attacks and safe in the water, however within the last 10 years there has been 3fatal attacks within 8km of aouth point.
Therefore the chances of water users being attacked in that area have gone up so much more dramatically than what could be referenced as a statistic based on say perth or western australias population growth.
If you spoke with people in ballina they would probably agree too. likewise with the swimmers at cottesloe.
Generally all the people who were attacked within the list were also people who had an affinity with the ocean for a long time, decades in many cases and carrying out activities in places which historically they had felt "shark safe"

Geez that abstract quote is appalling.

Its just a person taking a personal view. Very little evidence provided to support the statements and what statistics the person does quote has been clearly mis-stated.

That's crap-there's no shark diving around Ballina and, regardless, you're confusing correlation and causation..