Hi,

Looking to move over to Aus in the next 12 months and have always wanted to build my own house. High land prices and lack of availability here in the UK has meant I have not been able to do it here. On my recent trip to WA I noticed that land is so much more readily available, but rather than buying land and using a building contractor I am keen to employ individual trades for each stage and manage the project myself. This will also enable me to do a lot of the 2nd fix work myself (used to be a furniture maker)

Is this doable or is there a great deal of rules and regulations that will make this very difficult?


Thanks

Fairly simple process , have done it 4 times in the past 20 yrs, latest one built for 270k, almost done .
Builders price for the same OVER 550k.
Take your time, do the homework , use quality known trades, do as much as you can. ( having the hand skills required to be a furniture maker will enable you to do more than most).
Pm for more info if ya want.

Select to expand quote

Cassa said..
Pm for more info if ya want.

Will do. Thanks!

I think a lot depends on the local council, they can be very helpful or obstructive.
When we built I was a tad peeved, it was my fault, I asked the wrong question.

Built the new house behind the old one, wanted the old house for my workspace, and intended to build a garage for the car separate. So I asked what the plot ratio was, they told me 50%, great plenty of room. But when I submitted plans for said shed, was told the old house already took up the max outbuilding size. 2 questions slightly different, would have helped me if they'd volunteered the 2nd answer as well.

I think that the new building regulations make you attend an owner builder course before they give you a licence.

My brother in law is doing owner builder job. He has a bunch of tradie mates or mates of mates that he skates with. He has got some excellent work done at ridiculously good prices because he has organised stuff and done loads of ground work. For instance, his brother helped him design all the concrete specs for a second story balcony and set of stairs - he ordered all the reo and formed it up, borrowed the form work, call in the concrete truck and a couple of mates (carton rates) and hey presto. Similar story for roofing, plumbing, tiling... He gets let down a bit schedule wise - when you've got mates doing stuff they can blow you off at the last minute for a paying job - but he's flexible and rolls with it.

Good luck, great to see people having a go!

Select to expand quote

Pitbull said..

I think that the new building regulations make you attend an owner builder course before they give you a licence.

Banks don't like financing them and local govt like to put restrictions on that 'encourage' you or finish it rather then just get to lock-up and move in.

And I think the owner/builder option maxes out at a value of $20000.

Select to expand quote

Buster fin said..

And I think the owner/builder option maxes out at a value of $20000.

I think you might find that relates to renovations , not new home construction.

Select to expand quote

Pitbull said..

I think that the new building regulations make you attend an owner builder course before they give you a licence.

Not that I am aware of , unless things have changed in the last 2 years, I certainly didn't have to do much more than pay the fees

If you have the spare cash, great idea, much cheaper and great sense of achievment.
If you intend to borrow for it, good luck because it will be basically impossible to get the funds.

^^ I've asked the question on this before also, sebol is right at least for the big banks who will want either you working under a registered builder or something like that, from what I've been told unless the loan is a very small percentage of final value they do not loan to owner builders without additional support (read construction costs).

I should know, I am a finance broker

Ok, first things first i am registered builder(pom in Perth for 17 years).

Select to expand quote

Cassa said..

Fairly simple process , have done it 4 times in the past 20 yrs, latest one built for 270k, almost done .
Builders price for the same OVER 550k.
Take your time, do the homework , use quality known trades, do as much as you can. ( having the hand skills required to be a furniture maker will enable you to do more than most).
Pm for more info if ya want.

If you did most of the work yourself i would believe these figures, and its great you were able to do this. This would not be a normal saving on an owner build.
You have to do owner builder course now, but its really easy. The license and permits are the easy bit(time consuming but easy).

A normal saving on an owner build in Perth would equate to around 10-12% of the overall cost. Most builders in Perth metro charge between 14-20% to cover supervision/non job specific insurance/overheads and profit dependent on the value of the job, higher the value, lower the margin. This is a fact, we tender lots of work and know what the costs are therefore can work out competitors margins. Yes some are cheaper/dearer/ridiculous.

WA/Perth is very competitive in the sub $500k market atm. Most trades charge private(non Builders) a bit more for thier work as they have to generally spend more time talking to the client etc. Mates are good but i would avoid them mainly, if you need to rely on mates to get your job done on budget, should you be doing it at all, and when they call up for the same favour in 5 years time, can you or will your situation allow you to return the favour.

Building Commission WA website will give you a fair bit of info regarding owner building etc. Owner builder loans without a large owners cash component are very difficult to get(i did one 3 years ago and was really difficult to get over the line, St George did it in the end).

My advice would be;
Get a decent draft person to do planning stage drawings for approval, they need to understand the specific area you are building in.
Building approval drawings/Engineering for Building Permit application.
Specify the absolute s h i t out of the project, fixtures, finishes, nuts and bolts. This is where most owner builders go wrong, just dont realise what goes into a total project and miss heaps of items, therefore projected cost are unrealistic. Watch Grand designs, pretty much every project goes over budget because these people are just not aware of what can/does go wrong.
Possibly a quantity surveyor to break it all down and cost it.
Get a builder to price it, is it worth doing it yourself, building is very stressful for most people(get the wrong builder and its worse, cant win).
The above will take a minimum of 3 months, if you know what you want to build.

For the right person and with the right advice it also can be a great experience. Get advice, ask for help, research.
Don't approach with the view that you will save yourself a fortune, there is a saving but for most crew its not that huge if you make a couple of mistakes along the way.
PM me as well if you need. Good luck

Hard to find better advice than gibbos.

^^^ Totally agree!

Select to expand quote

the gibbo said..

My advice would be;
Get a decent draft person to do planning stage drawings for approval, they need to understand the specific area you are building in.
Building approval drawings/Engineering for Building Permit application.
Specify the absolute s h i t out of the project, fixtures, finishes, nuts and bolts. This is where most owner builders go wrong, just dont realise what goes into a total project and miss heaps of items, therefore projected cost are unrealistic. Watch Grand designs, pretty much every project goes over budget because these people are just not aware of what can/does go wrong.
Possibly a quantity surveyor to break it all down and cost it.
Get a builder to price it, is it worth doing it yourself, building is very stressful for most people(get the wrong builder and its worse, cant win).
The above will take a minimum of 3 months, if you know what you want to build.

For the right person and with the right advice it also can be a great experience. Get advice, ask for help, research.
Don't approach with the view that you will save yourself a fortune, there is a saving but for most crew its not that huge if you make a couple of mistakes along the way.
PM me as well if you need. Good luck

As a registered Building Designer myself (although in Vic) - Gibbo's and other member's comments re; Owner Builders are pretty much spot-on.

Before you take the plunge though - it's worth checking out your obligations;

http://www.buildingcommission.wa.gov.au/industry/responsibilities-compliance/owner-builders

www.buildingcommission.wa.gov.au/docs/owner-builder/owner_builder_application_package_jul13.pdf

Note that you can only be registered as an owner builder once every 6 years. This is not an issue unless you want to build again within that timeframe (and depends on the flexibility of the "special circumstances" clause). You may find out that it's best to find a Registered Builder that will allow you to do a lot of work in order to reduce your costs.

To elaborate on Gibbo's advice re; Registered Builder - As a 'new' Aussie not knowing the area, you'll also find that it will be much better (& safer) to use a reputable builder's sub-contractors than sourcing your own. Word-of-mouth advertising is generally the best, although I'm nearly certain you will receive bad advice when enquiring about sub-trades that may not be from the most trustworthy sources & most-times can be biased -ie; next door neighbour will say "Use Jacko - he's the cheapest sparky in town and will look after you", when in-fact 'Jacko' may not be a qualified electrician and end up costing you more than you think (sorry if there's a Jacko-sparky here). Online advertising and White Pages ads can be 'bought' and aren't a great way to employ sub-trades. Builders filter-out bad subbies and generally will have a good crew that work hard, do quality work and are priced accordingly. Also, most subbies will provide a better quote to the builder knowing that the job will 'flow' much better and they won't be wasting their time with delays (this I know from experience!) My point being, look at your options before becoming a (Owner Builder) statistic.

As Gibbo mentioned (and I'm not saying this to promote draftys) - get a good Building Designer/Architect to do your design work and a good engineer. The cost of good quality design & documentation may seem excessive at the time, but can save you tens of thousands in getting the design & detailing correct (reducing site delays and make-overs), and in structural specification. Have a fixed budget and include the consultant fees in that budget (with about a 10-15% contingency amount put aside). I don't totally agree with getting everything fully spec'd. If you are completing the final fit-out, and if you have the time - select your fittings as you go. Keep in mind though that 'some' fittings definitely need to be specified to ensure that they fit and are wired/plumbed correctly. I personally would specify everything up-front, but that's also my job. I'd also engage a reputable Interior Designer (I know a couple of excellent ones), and get them on board early in the design process as they can really add a level of detail and design to a home - they can cost more than your Building Designer's fees in many cases - but a good one is worth every cent!

Finally...Please don't watch Grand Designs! That show (although I do enjoy watching it) is the most frustrating show for building designers around the country...clients come in after watching it with ideas, that are great...but in GERMANY (or wherever that particular episode is based)! Aus is a different climate, and although some things can be taken away re; design & decor, the construction methods differ here. Kevin McLeod is a great TV host - but sucks as an Architectural critic/commentator!

Good luck with it!

This link is pretty hand for an idea of the order of construction.

www.selfbuildnewhomes.com/Example_Page.php

Good luck!

Interesting topic, which I know nothing about, so rather than advice, I will pose a question to direct more info... what about a kit home, which are usually steel framed, and then cladded. That would sort out design, council regs, capacity to do most labouring and get the tradies to do the regulation/complience work like hooking up the plumbing and wires to the grid?
just a thought..

As a rule of thumb, in W.A., kit homes are more prevalent in rural areas, and not so much in the main metropolitan areas.

The major metro councils seem to have a "double brick and tile" mindset, but attitudes are slowly changing

Steel roofing, steel roofing frames, different building materials like lightweight bricks etc have been around for a good few years now.

I have not seen clad exterior walls [which are owner builder friendly]inside the Perth metro area, not sure if its due to council regs,
or insulation standards or some other reason.

Best bet would be to contact a few of the kit home companies for up to date info- as this is thier trade.

One of our seabreeze builders / architects will be bound to pipe up soon.......

stephen

Select to expand quote

cisco said..

Hard to find better advice than gibbos.

That's right. I did it once, with a kit home. You have to cover the extra rent you pay because you don't finish it as quickly as a builder. You have allow for the fact that unless you are in the building game you don't get mate's rates on the tradies you do get in. If you even break even you've done very well.

Two good kit home manufacturers in Melb are Prebuilt and Modscape, design, construct and installation break the mould of your usual "kit" homes..

Gibbo's advice is as close to the truth you get without having to pay for it...

Get a good, well respected builder to complete possibly your biggest asset that you may have. In owner building the pitfalls for the unwary are huge and could not only create undue financial stress but also create problems in marriage as well.

Select to expand quote

ockanui said..

Two good kit home manufacturers in Melb are Prebuilt and Modscape, design, construct and installation break the mould of your usual "kit" homes..

They both build very nice prefab homes - the downside is the cost. At about 30k+ per sq for Modscape, it's around double of what a builder will charge for a 'similar' quality build, although as they focus on small sized dwellings, the builder's cost may increase. Where they are economical is in remote areas where trades & services cost too much to get there for weeks at a time.

Just wondering about BCA in terms of getting construction doco and detailing compliant to statutory regulations. where and how do I get more information on this. Is there some sort of checklist that you can tick off? Also Is this predominately a building designer or interior designer's responsibility?

cheers

BCA for the non-building trained is a confusing(and expensive(might be copies available at libary/net etc)), what are you after ?

Most stuff is pretty standard and is not really detailed in drawings, it is assumed, and responsibility is passed on to the installer/builder to make sure all items comply BCA/AS. Most local authorities dont worry to much about finite detail/compliance unless its something like and EPA issue and pretty much never inspect anything(which is a joke and why there are so many cowboys in building). There is also a comment used "deemed to comply" which is sometimes used when alternative methods to achieve the same result are used, quite often "common sense".

Anything different would normally be detailed by the architect/building designer and "should" be drawn to comply, sometimes dont and are generally completely overlooked by within the approvals process by the permit issuing authority. So if you/builder goes ahead and does whats detailed and it fails, you/builder take the wrap. Engineering detail is different, must be approved/stamped by registered engineer and they are generally indemnified against errors(not negligence). Anyone can draw and detail anything without a single qualification and submit for approvals.

If someone is drawing a building for you ask how and what sections of the BCA/AS are relevant to each area at least this will narrow down you search area for info. If they cant/wont tell you go elsewhere. As i said before most of it is really standard stuff which is mostly common knowledge with professionals.

Gibbo is correct about the confusion that the BCA will cause if you don't work within the industry. It also refers to many Aust. Standards that need to be adhered to.

Not sure about other states, but most Building regulatory bodies provide 'fact sheets' or 'practice notes' similar to what you'll find on the link below.

http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/industry-and-practitioners/practice-notes

I won't even start to try to explain the BCA series as I've subscribed to then for over 7 years and still refer to the books on a daily basis.

Do not underestimate the additional complications & expense that trying to build on "Bush Fire Prone Land" will entail. As an OB you need to avoid any land that is council designated "Bush fire Prone Land"!!

Critical to get a good designer/draughtsperson that can do the plans & submit the application, local knowledge on which council cronie to talk with is crucial.
You can use power tools which is great, a building site is a different type of work/carpentry tho', & not knowing much about the aussie way of building will hinder you at first, suggest you move here & work on a building site as a labourer to get the gist of the way builders operate here, getting anything built out of the ordinary will be costly. Keep your design & size simple & small as practical.
It all boils down to dollars & if you need to get finance it will be very, very hard, if you manage to swing finance the bank will send someone to inspect the build in stages, before releasing more funds.

^^^ what he said cheers

have we put off flanagaj ?

Lot's of good advice here.
don't be put off by the so called problems that some have posted , it's a fairly simple process if you do your homework and do things CORRECTLY
it will all work out


Last one built 9 yrs ago on weekends and afternoons after work, moved in after 10 months (not quite finished inside but hey , no rent)
10mtr by 7 mtr L shaped pool as well .-- house and land - finished , just over 285k

Nice work Cassa, now this makes sense, 9 years ago, yes, todays price, double, at least.

Did you do it all yourself ? How much did you pay for the land ?
Dont get me wrong i am not being sarcastic, just genuinely interested, and your right it does all work out in the end, but not if you are not prepared to work your arse off and have the coin to back it up.
Not many people are capable or have the balls to do what you did !

Select to expand quote

the gibbo said..

Nice work Cassa, now this makes sense, 9 years ago, yes, todays price, double, at least.

Did you do it all yourself ? How much did you pay for the land ?
Dont get me wrong i am not being sarcastic, just genuinely interested, and your right it does all work out in the end, but not if you are not prepared to work your arse off and have the coin to back it up.
Not many people are capable or have the balls to do what you did !

Thank's mate , yeah all me and the boss, had a team of chippy's put the second floor on , and pitch the roof , that was 14k alot at the time , but it took 2 tradesmen and an apprentice 5 days!!, pretty quick I thought , damm good money for them(if I didn't get them when I did for that price , it would have been a 2 mth wait.Paid 7 k for the roof plumber.
Had a sparky and a plumber, and paid for the cabinets, ,, That was it .The land was 90k, could not let it pass at that!!
12 weekends to do the ground floor brickwork (3 mtr ceilings) and 14 weekends to carve and shape the truckloads of limestone to do the entry '
Was rendering the pool before the liner went in , after work (started at 5am finished at 12'30pm) in 40c odd temps for a week, that was fun, Wife came after work to find me seated in the pool under an umbrella pushing on render with 2 hands cause I was so buggered, but we got there in the end.
It wouldn't have worked if I did not BUST my guts at every opportunity to get the job done. Can't emphasize enough , the effort it takes , but if your fit enough and have the knowledge it can be done. I am lucky in that I can, and have done most of the work myself (if I may say so to a very high standard), because of the training I've had. In that respect It , apart from being physically demanding , it was a relatively simple process.

Just wish I could get a job, and pay, that justifies all I can do!!
Till that happens I'll just paint and fish

I do miss my favorite room though

Sweet.

I did a couple of reno's in the same way a fews years back, have definitely ran out of steam now and have a young family which doesn't allow the sacrifice of time(and i cant be arsed to be honest).
Most crew i think have one or two in them if they are hands on capable and ultra driven, weekends and after work, just burns you out after a while.
Good work mate