How hard are they to setup and run?

I'm looking at swapping super funds right now, and:

1. Neither of the funds outperformed the ASX200
2. They're too complicated; I don't and can't really understand what money goes where.
3. Looks like 30% of the profit they made for me was taken out in fees & taxes. (It could have returned 50% more!)

#1 speaks for itself, and #2 is a warning bell for me, #3 sucks.

Here's all I want to do:

1. Have a Self Managed Super Fund that:
a) Invests in a small number of indexes like the ASX200, the S&P500, and the NASDAQ100.

That's it.

How much reporting needs to be done, etc. ? I know I can look this up myself but I like to hear personal experiences.

No need for a self managed fund to do what you want to do, many funds such as Hostplus allow you to select your own shares using up to 80% of your account balance. Cost is about $80/yr to run, no reporting etc required. You can buy and sell shares within the fund as you would on the ASX. The other 20% must be invested in one of their funds but with fees on those funds as low as 0.02%, and that fund being one of the top performing funds in Oz last year, it is really a no brainer.

At a rough guess my SMSF costs me about $5000 a year in accountant fees, auditor fees, company registration etc. There may be other cheaper ways to do it, but I think it at least must be audited annually. There is a thread on this I think, and a minimum number was mentioned as being viable for SMSF.

One of the bean counter will be along shortly with the real answers..

I started an SMSF a year and a half ago for the simple reason that I could reduce my fees from around $7000 to $800.

However, you take on the responsibility of managing where your funds are invested.

DYOR

PS: My former retail Superfund was only paying 1.7-1.8% for the cash investment option whereas the open market was offering 2.5-3% for term deposits. So I was basically $20k pa better off overall

I have a really good suggestion / advice for you .......................................................................Don't take advice from the internet , speak with an accountant you trust , if you don't have one ,you need to find one .

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SandS said..
I have a really good suggestion / advice for you .......................................................................Don't take advice from the internet , speak with an accountant you trust , if you don't have one ,you need to find one .

Thanks SandS. That's a good idea. I won't take your advice from the internet.

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albers said..
PS: My former retail Superfund was only paying 1.7-1.8% for the cash investment option whereas the open market was offering 2.5-3% for term deposits. So I was basically $20k pa better off overall

You have $2m in cash? I wouldn't tell people that on the internet.

So you got your fees down to ~$800? I keep hearing ~$5,000 when you include all the auditing and accounting. Seems an awful lot for what for me will be a very simple operation.

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airsail said..
No need for a self managed fund to do what you want to do, many funds such as Hostplus allow you to select your own shares using up to 80% of your account balance. Cost is about $80/yr to run, no reporting etc required. You can buy and sell shares within the fund as you would on the ASX. The other 20% must be invested in one of their funds but with fees on those funds as low as 0.02%, and that fund being one of the top performing funds in Oz last year, it is really a no brainer.

Very interesting. Thanks!

Ask yourself the question how much time would you be prepared to invest in a SMSF.
Next question how much knowledge do you have of the market.
There are a lot of industry funds that have performed well prior and post GFC with low fee structures.
Spend some time researching industry funds and go with them, they a have a huge amount of options
and mixes from cash though to Aus or International shares.

Panda everyone's situation is different - but SMSF tends to suit business owners due to flexibility and ability to buy business premises. Yes you have admin costs of SMSF but these will far less than funds management and admin costs of retail funds. A 500k SMSF with shares/cash and no regular trading shouldn't cost more than 4k in admin - 0.8%. You can get it done cheaper but might be missing things unless you're seriously DIY.

Here are some other options:

1. Wrap account through a 100% independent financial advisor. The fees will be less than vast majority of retail funds if the advisor uses ETFs rather than managed funds. What you are paying for is strategic advice rather than fund management. Total cost say 0.8-1%.

2. Something like Hostplus balanced index fund. 0.02% fees. Passive fund holding index linked ETFs, hence the low fees.

google 'the barefoot investor', Scott Pape, he's got some good simple advice that seems pretty sound.

Can you claim your super management costs in your tax return????????

Either smsf or if its managed ??

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evlPanda said..

albers said..
PS: My former retail Superfund was only paying 1.7-1.8% for the cash investment option whereas the open market was offering 2.5-3% for term deposits. So I was basically $20k pa better off overall

You have $2m in cash? I wouldn't tell people that on the internet.

So you got your fees down to ~$800? I keep hearing ~$5,000 when you include all the auditing and accounting. Seems an awful lot for what for me will be a very simple operation.

Your maths is a trifle out. ($2m in cash - haha!!!)

If a retail fund charges total management fees of 1.5%pa. then $7000 would be charged on a total balance of $466,666

If a retail fund charges total management fees of 1.5%pa. and the funds' cash option returns 1.8%pa., your overall gain is 0.3%

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albers said..

evlPanda said..

albers said..
PS: My former retail Superfund was only paying 1.7-1.8% for the cash investment option whereas the open market was offering 2.5-3% for term deposits. So I was basically $20k pa better off overall

You have $2m in cash? I wouldn't tell people that on the internet.

So you got your fees down to ~$800? I keep hearing ~$5,000 when you include all the auditing and accounting. Seems an awful lot for what for me will be a very simple operation.

Your maths is a trifle out. ($2m in cash - haha!!!)

If a retail fund charges total management fees of 1.5%pa. then $7000 would be charged on a total balance of $466,666

If a retail fund charges total management fees of 1.5%pa. and the funds' cash option returns 1.8%pa., your overall gain is 0.3%

The difference between 1.7-1.8% & 2.5-3% is about 1%.
Your saying you are 20k better off with that 1%.
back of envelope calcs also gives me balance of $2m for 20k & 1%.

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BlueMoon said..

albers said..

evlPanda said..

albers said..
PS: My former retail Superfund was only paying 1.7-1.8% for the cash investment option whereas the open market was offering 2.5-3% for term deposits. So I was basically $20k pa better off overall

You have $2m in cash? I wouldn't tell people that on the internet.

So you got your fees down to ~$800? I keep hearing ~$5,000 when you include all the auditing and accounting. Seems an awful lot for what for me will be a very simple operation.

Your maths is a trifle out. ($2m in cash - haha!!!)

If a retail fund charges total management fees of 1.5%pa. then $7000 would be charged on a total balance of $466,666

If a retail fund charges total management fees of 1.5%pa. and the funds' cash option returns 1.8%pa., your overall gain is 0.3%

The difference between 1.7-1.8% & 2.5-3% is about 1%.
Your saying you are 20k better off with that 1%.
back of envelope calcs also gives me balance of $2m for 20k & 1%.

You have not factored in the retail fund management fee of 1.5%.

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arancini said..
google 'the barefoot investor', Scott Pape, he's got some good simple advice that seems pretty sound.

He recommends the Hostplus Balanced Index Fund.

However it's a bit mysterious how they track the index and achieve this low fee: www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/6699gv/002_fees_with_hostplus_indexed_balanced_super/?st=j5vstynp&sh=46ed2ef7