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sn said..
not a perfect solution by any means - but a huge step in the right direction.

this packaging material is mostly chalk, with some non toxic recyclable plastic added.

As used by Bannister Downs Dairy for their milk products.

[Bannister Downs iced coffee and choc milk is heaps better than Masters, Brownes or any of that eastern states slop.]

http://www.ecolean.com/package/material/

www.bannisterdowns.com.au/packaging

stephen

bit of a problem sn ,
"IS THE ECOLEAN MATERIAL BIODEGRADABLE?The Ecolean material is not biodegradable. The environmental benefits of the package is the minimal material used, see the Environment pages for more information."
it isnt biodegradable. so what are you going to do with you waste ?

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landyacht said..

sn said..
not a perfect solution by any means - but a huge step in the right direction.

this packaging material is mostly chalk, with some non toxic recyclable plastic added.

As used by Bannister Downs Dairy for their milk products.

[Bannister Downs iced coffee and choc milk is heaps better than Masters, Brownes or any of that eastern states slop.]

http://www.ecolean.com/package/material/

www.bannisterdowns.com.au/packaging

stephen

bit of a problem sn ,
"IS THE ECOLEAN MATERIAL BIODEGRADABLE?The Ecolean material is not biodegradable. The environmental benefits of the package is the minimal material used, see the Environment pages for more information."
it isnt biodegradable. so what are you going to do with you waste ?

CAN THE ECOLEAN MATERIAL BE RECYCLED?The recycling directives differ from country and municipalities but the packages can be recycled as energy or material.
I think this might just mean burn it or use it as landfill. basically do what the local laws say, not our problem

This should be banned too..
thekeyworldwide.com/

As for plastic bags, everyone has an opinion, mine is that they aren't the biggest problem by a long shot. They're an engineering marvel, strong, light & made with just a drop of plastic. Mine get groceries home, then get used again as a bin liner, then go to landfill. I'm fairly comfortable with that.

I think bait bags being biodegradable is a no-brainer.

From what I understand, the ecolean packs are recyclable, but have no idea if we have the facilities in W.A. to do this.

iirc, there was a big plastics recycling factory in Perth a couple of years ago that went up in flames, dunno if it is running again.

As for the new disintegrating shopping bags - we did this experiment back in the early '90's when the Foodlands chain introduced them.
I tied a bunch of the old style standard plastic shopping bags, and a similar number of the new disintegrating bags to the fence behind our shop in Bindoon.

4 months after the old style bags had fallen to bits - the new "disintegrating" bags were still intact.

Hope the 2015 version works better!

stephen

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kiteboy dave said..
This should be banned too..
thekeyworldwide.com/

As for plastic bags, everyone has an opinion, mine is that they aren't the biggest problem by a long shot. They're an engineering marvel, strong, light & made with just a drop of plastic. Mine get groceries home, then get used again as a bin liner, then go to landfill. I'm fairly comfortable with that.

I think bait bags being biodegradable is a no-brainer.

If you are looking for an alternative bin liner, try newspaper. Its absorbent, biodegradable, and those community newspapers are forever being shoved in my letter box - so supply is plentiful.

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Chris_M said..

kiteboy dave said..
This should be banned too..
thekeyworldwide.com/

As for plastic bags, everyone has an opinion, mine is that they aren't the biggest problem by a long shot. They're an engineering marvel, strong, light & made with just a drop of plastic. Mine get groceries home, then get used again as a bin liner, then go to landfill. I'm fairly comfortable with that.

I think bait bags being biodegradable is a no-brainer.

If you are looking for an alternative bin liner, try newspaper. Its absorbent, biodegradable, and those community newspapers are forever being shoved in my letter box - so supply is plentiful.

You can stop the community newspapers, I did at my last house. I was apparently the only person in history to request it

I use them for my bin liners though, after I have finished reading them

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jbshack said..
Some would say plastic is not an issue in Australia. Many of you would have seen footage of birds dead with there stomachs full of plastic. Whales are now dyeing from basically inhaling plastic.
...

Really?? So what color are they now?

www.dpaw.wa.gov.au/management/marine/marine-parks-wa/398-marine-park-protectors?showall=&start=2

www.fishingworld.com.au/news/fish-facts-the-problem-with-plastic

Yeah your right Pweedle plastics are not an issue for our oceans.

Once again head in the sand on environmental issues i see

plastic bags decompose in the sun? Some plastic bags are fully biodegradable in the sun. This is a minority as they cost more
The more standard plastic bag "decomposes" in that they end up as ever smaller pieces of plastic. The effect of this is quite scary, and we really don't know yet precisely what will happen. One effect seems to be that the surface area increases (a matter of geometry), and the polyethylene is a perfect substrate for pesticides, PCBs etc to adhere to.
These microscopic pieces of toxin laden plastic are the perfect size to be taken up by all the marine creatures at the bottom of the food chain.

I could not think of a better way to ensure that agents which accumulate up the food chain will end up in us (important thought for those who do not see the environmental issues as being relevant to their own lives)

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jbshack said..


Yeah your right Pweedle plastics are not an issue for our oceans.

Once again head in the sand on environmental issues i see

BJ, I do more for the environment than you will ever accomplish swilling around the ocean in your gas guzzling tubs.
That's one point which is certain.

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pweedas said..

jbshack said..


Yeah your right Pweedle plastics are not an issue for our oceans.

Once again head in the sand on environmental issues i see

BJ, I do more for the environment than you will ever accomplish swilling around the ocean in your gas guzzling tubs.
That's one point which is certain.

pweedas = oxygen thief

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kiteboy dave said..

Chris_M said..

kiteboy dave said..
This should be banned too..
thekeyworldwide.com/

As for plastic bags, everyone has an opinion, mine is that they aren't the biggest problem by a long shot. They're an engineering marvel, strong, light & made with just a drop of plastic. Mine get groceries home, then get used again as a bin liner, then go to landfill. I'm fairly comfortable with that.

I think bait bags being biodegradable is a no-brainer.

If you are looking for an alternative bin liner, try newspaper. Its absorbent, biodegradable, and those community newspapers are forever being shoved in my letter box - so supply is plentiful.

You can stop the community newspapers, I did at my last house. I was apparently the only person in history to request it

Who would red thumb me for saving trees from going directly into my recycle bin? FFS.

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pweedas said..
Plastic bags are just processed oil.
Most people drive to the shops in their two ton 4wd, using a litre of two of diesel at least, buy a whole lot of stuff sealed up in multiple layers of plastic wrappers and containers, then put it in very thin biodegradable plastic bags to take it home.
The weight of the plastic carry bags probably equates to a few cc of oil, as opposed to the many litres used on the entire shopping operation.
Why pick on the biodegradable plastic bags?

When plastics and oil has been eliminated from the entire shopping process, and plastic bags are the only remaining item then feel free to give it a serve, but so far, plastic bags are probably one of the least wastages in the whole procedure.
They are often used multiple times until they fall to bits or are used as rubbish bags.
If you eliminate them people will just buy plastic bags to do the same jobs.

My local paper The Byron Echo in its editorial section on Feb 18 states:

"According to the 2002 Nolan ITU Report on plastic shopping bags for the Federal Government body Environment Australia (probably axed by Abbott?) that just 8.7 plastic checkout bags contain enough embodied petroleum to drive a car one kilometre."

I googled the report and a few links came up - this one didn't have that information ......

http://www.scew.gov.au/system/files/resources/0c513e54-d968-ac04-758b-3b7613af0d07/files/ps-pbag-rpt-nolan-itu-plastic-bag-use-2002-04-interimrpt-200503.pdf

Maybe not your two tonne 4wd Pweedas, but still this shows that it is more than a 'drop' of oil that goes into making a plastic shopping bag.

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pweedas said..
okey dokey. [on topic]
I was down on the fishing jetty at Coogee yesterday afternoon and the breeze was blowing a bit.
Every few minutes another empty plastic bait bag or carry bag blew off into the water.
I see them often when I'm snorkeling over the reefs. I used to stuff them down my bathers to get them out of the system.
Some of them were quite stinky so I don't bother any more. They were stinky before I shoved them down my bathers.

Banning shopping bags at supermarkets will have a very low impact on this. They will simply buy plastic bags and still take them fishing, and bait bags will still be plastic.

That sort of disrespect to the environment makes me angry - especially when it's in your or my local area.

I don't care if I upset people now - I tell them politely "hey mate - your bag is about to blow into the water!"

Or it's I see it blowing I'll pick it up and go and give it to them.... or put it in the bin.

Or if it's too late I'll give them a little bit of a lecture.... I've still got all my teeth - actually all but one!

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Hausey said..

pweedas said..
Plastic bags are just processed oil.
Most people drive to the shops in their two ton 4wd, using a litre of two of diesel at least, buy a whole lot of stuff sealed up in multiple layers of plastic wrappers and containers, then put it in very thin biodegradable plastic bags to take it home.
The weight of the plastic carry bags probably equates to a few cc of oil, as opposed to the many litres used on the entire shopping operation.
Why pick on the biodegradable plastic bags?

When plastics and oil has been eliminated from the entire shopping process, and plastic bags are the only remaining item then feel free to give it a serve, but so far, plastic bags are probably one of the least wastages in the whole procedure.
They are often used multiple times until they fall to bits or are used as rubbish bags.
If you eliminate them people will just buy plastic bags to do the same jobs.

My local paper The Byron Echo in its editorial section on Feb 18 states:

"According to the 2002 Nolan ITU Report on plastic shopping bags for the Federal Government body Environment Australia (probably axed by Abbott?) that just 8.7 plastic checkout bags contain enough embodied petroleum to drive a car one kilometre."

I googled the report and a few links came up - this one didn't have that information ......

http://www.scew.gov.au/system/files/resources/0c513e54-d968-ac04-758b-3b7613af0d07/files/ps-pbag-rpt-nolan-itu-plastic-bag-use-2002-04-interimrpt-200503.pdf

Maybe not your two tonne 4wd Pweedas, but still this shows that it is more than a 'drop' of oil that goes into making a plastic shopping bag.

I didn't see in that report where it made any mention of how much oil goes into each shopping bag.

If the average use was say 4 bags, that would weigh in at 30 grams, or less. 30 grams of plastic would equate to around 50 cc of fuel, diesel etc.
At say 10 litres per 100km, 50 cc of fuel would take you half a kilometer, provided you are running at a constant speed. If you hit the throttle it's gone in less than 100 meters.

I think the figure of 1km quoted above would have been fora Highandry Getz or something similar and driven under the most favorable circumstances.

Don't think I'm trying to make a case for throwing plastic bags in the ocean because I'm not. I get seriously pithed off when I see them going in there but I don't think removing them from supermarket checkouts will solve the problem. And I bruise to easily to try and do anything to those who let them blow in there.

^^^^^ You might be correct!

From how your profile avitar looks - pweedy you look like a bruiser!

Even if you're not - try and educate the dumb and ignorant culprits ....

Or lobby your local council for bins and rubbish collection where they fish?

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Hausey said..
^^^^^ You might be correct!

From how your profile avitar looks - pweedy you look like a bruiser!

Even if you're not - try and educate the dumb and ignorant culprits ....

Or lobby your local council for bins and rubbish collection where they fish?

Yes, well that's another matter which I seem to be powerless to change.
My local council,. in their great wisdom, removed rubbish bins from the beach area because they were too hard for the contractor to empty.
They were replaced by a few signs asking people to take their rubbish with them,.. Yeah right,.. that'll work.

The bins are up on the hill well away from the beach and it's far too hot a walk for delicate metropolitan feet to walk up and dump their rubbish in the bins.
Consequently, most of it is left on the beach, except for the bottles of course, which are pushed under the sand because it's an offence to drink on the beach so you wouldn't want your empties in plain sight would you?
After a long weekend, the whole beach area looks like a rubbish dump.
I suppose to their credit, the council does do a beach sweep first thing the next morning and sweeps up whatever hasn't blown into the water with the strong offshore winds overnight.
Oh well, at least the empty bottles didn't blow away.

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pweedas said..

Hausey said..
^^^^^ You might be correct!

From how your profile avitar looks - pweedy you look like a bruiser!

Even if you're not - try and educate the dumb and ignorant culprits ....

Or lobby your local council for bins and rubbish collection where they fish?

Yes, well that's another matter which I seem to be powerless to change.
My local council,. in their great wisdom, removed rubbish bins from the beach area because they were too hard for the contractor to empty.
They were replaced by a few signs asking people to take their rubbish with them,.. Yeah right,.. that'll work.

The bins are up on the hill well away from the beach and it's far too hot a walk for delicate metropolitan feet to walk up and dump their rubbish in the bins.
Consequently, most of it is left on the beach, except for the bottles of course, which are pushed under the sand because it's an offence to drink on the beach so you wouldn't want your empties in plain sight would you?
After a long weekend, the whole beach area looks like a rubbish dump.
I suppose to their credit, the council does do a beach sweep first thing the next morning and sweeps up whatever hasn't blown into the water with the strong offshore winds overnight.
Oh well, at least the empty bottles didn't blow away.

It's a massive problem hey! Here we are in a "rich first world country", most of the population would be educated in the problem - yet some people still think that they can't be bothered taking their rubbish with them or walking to the nearest bin!

I don't know what the solution would be apart from more education, more signage etc.

Sometimes I'd like to stuff some plastic rubbish into the perpetrators mouth and let them choke in their rubbish!