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evlPanda said..

japie said..
And the third paragraph which I think is the salient point:

"This realization leads to an even more unsettling and uncomfortable truth: If we are to ever establish a free and just society, mass expropriation of personal wealth and property will be a necessity. In other words, the few dozens of families who have amassed personal riches equal to half the world must be forced to surrender this wealth.

And furthermore, those next 5% of the global population who have acquired equally obscene amounts of wealth, relatively speaking, must also be liquidated.

And, in heeding Lucy Parson's warning that "we can never be deceived that the rich will allow us to vote their wealth away," we can presume that this inevitable process of mass expropriation will not be pretty. This is a harsh and discomforting truth, indeed. But it is an undeniable truth. It is a truth that we must recognize. It is a truth that, despite being conditioned to resist, we must embrace if we are to have a shot at constructing a just world for all."

Yeah, erm... you do realise you are in that 5%, right?

Earning $AU50K a year? You're in the top 1%. Off with your head.

I get where you're coming from but you are wrong in that in the past two years I've not been obliged to lodge an income tax return.

mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-04/informal-votes-to-have-impact-on-election-result-in-close-seats/7566232

So the donkey votes win?

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rburtyy said..


Voting should be by choice rather than compulsory, then we might not be in the mess we are now from wasted votes.

What's the difference? You waste your vote, you are effectively opting out, but without the excuse of 'I didn't vote'.

A mess? I doubt it. The only wasted votes are the ones where someone intended to vote but made a mistake.

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FormulaNova said..

rburtyy said..


Voting should be by choice rather than compulsory, then we might not be in the mess we are now from wasted votes.

What's the difference? You waste your vote, you are effectively opting out, but without the excuse of 'I didn't vote'.

A mess? I doubt it. The only wasted votes are the ones where someone intended to vote but made a mistake.

Point taken.
What I was trying to get across was if it wasn't compulsory , people who took the election seriously would be the ones voting and we might not end up with for e.g. the "pirate party" running the country because someone thought that was funny and cast that as their vote and I reckon that's what a lot of people have done to get us in this mess. I also admit that the 2 major parties did not leave us much to choose from.

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rburtyy said..

FormulaNova said..

rburtyy said..


Voting should be by choice rather than compulsory, then we might not be in the mess we are now from wasted votes.

What's the difference? You waste your vote, you are effectively opting out, but without the excuse of 'I didn't vote'.

A mess? I doubt it. The only wasted votes are the ones where someone intended to vote but made a mistake.

Point taken.
What I was trying to get across was if it wasn't compulsory , people who took the election seriously would be the ones voting and we might not end up with for e.g. the "pirate party" running the country because someone thought that was funny and cast that as their vote and I reckon that's what a lot of people have done to get us in this mess. I also admit that the 2 major parties did not leave us much to choose from.

Yeah, agreed. I didn't even really notice those parties because I knew who I wanted to vote for, but they would have some impact.

By 2050 ish Singapore will be the richest country on earth per capita. No resources, nothing. 7 percent income tax Only.

Why? Because they tax land. You can only lease land From the people via the government not own it. They essentially collect rent and take away all speculative, unproductive activity from it.

This revenue is then distributed back to every citizen via a dividend.

Canberaa was initially setup like this, hence the land didn't appreciate, it was essentially worth nothing except what productivote could be made on top of it.

Economic rent derived from enclosure through government regulated licenses (of whom the elite control and land is the most profitable and incidentally causes all booms and busts) is what causes the wealth distribution to the few. (And yu might also start to understand such conflicts between uber and taxi licenses to).

Study your history boys and girls and you will see how pointless it is voting for any party. Everything else is theoretical economic bullsh1t delivered through eduction for the very Reason of creating this wealth flow. Economic rent to economics is like gravity is to science. Land has been stripped from all teachings and lumped into the category of capital. Very clever by the elite, very clever indeed.

You want to really know why the gap is increasing...study this, nothing else matters.

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japie said..

evlPanda said..

japie said..
And the third paragraph which I think is the salient point:

"This realization leads to an even more unsettling and uncomfortable truth: If we are to ever establish a free and just society, mass expropriation of personal wealth and property will be a necessity. In other words, the few dozens of families who have amassed personal riches equal to half the world must be forced to surrender this wealth.

And furthermore, those next 5% of the global population who have acquired equally obscene amounts of wealth, relatively speaking, must also be liquidated.

And, in heeding Lucy Parson's warning that "we can never be deceived that the rich will allow us to vote their wealth away," we can presume that this inevitable process of mass expropriation will not be pretty. This is a harsh and discomforting truth, indeed. But it is an undeniable truth. It is a truth that we must recognize. It is a truth that, despite being conditioned to resist, we must embrace if we are to have a shot at constructing a just world for all."

Yeah, erm... you do realise you are in that 5%, right?

Earning $AU50K a year? You're in the top 1%. Off with your head.

I get where you're coming from but you are wrong in that in the past two years I've not been obliged to lodge an income tax return.

So you're just rent collecting? Man, you're first on the list. ; )

Oh and fractional reserve lending (not gold backed) brought in by Nixon 45 years ago influenced by the fed (which is a private enterprise of bankers by the way) to power this wealth transfer and then leave the tax payer (debt slavery subjects) to foot the multiple generational bill. Nixon had little choice the Vietnam war had resulted in too much money printing not backed by the amount of gold they had in the vaults. The French said, "okay we want to redeem our USreserves in gold thanks very much" ...but the US didn't have it...so...lets take the currency off the gold standard...again clever sly elite foxes. And now we see the result of it.

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eppo said..
The fuedal lord system of debt enslavery is well and truly entrenched now.

We should call it the "Feudal Election" instead of the Federal.

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GreenPat said..

eppo said..
The fuedal lord system of debt enslavery is well and truly entrenched now.

We should call it the "Feudal Election" instead of the Federal.

I was going to suggest "The Feral Election". I spent the day handing out how to vote flyers and the only people who came in well dressed and in a good humour were the old folk over 60.

The rest were grumpy, arrogant and scruffily dressed. The wishy-washy electorate got what it wanted and deserves, a wishy-washy government.

I am quite disgusted with how empty headed most Australians seem to have become.

Hey Cisco , you appear to be a little p'd off with the Aussie electorate . May I ask what outcome would have made you happier or less scathing of the voters . I wasn't surprised with the outcome to be honest . Cheers, J

Been counting votes over the last week. The number of unintended 'informals' is quite astonishing.

Is it really that hard to write the numbers 1 to 5 legibly on a sheet of paper? Seems to be the case!

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James said..
Hey Cisco , you appear to be a little p'd off with the Aussie electorate . May I ask what outcome would have made you happier or less scathing of the voters . I wasn't surprised with the outcome to be honest . Cheers, J

A landslide victory either way would at least show there is a bit of feeling in the poll.

What really disgusts me is the fact that in several electorates where there is only a difference of 400 votes separating the contenders, there are 4,000 informal votes. This shows that a huge number of people are just too stupid to make a choice or just do not care.

That is shameful. We are living in I believe the most free country in the world yet people just do not care about letting it slide away from us.

Welfare recipients are over-represented in this country.

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cisco said..

James said..
Hey Cisco , you appear to be a little p'd off with the Aussie electorate . May I ask what outcome would have made you happier or less scathing of the voters . I wasn't surprised with the outcome to be honest . Cheers, J

A landslide victory either way would at least show there is a bit of feeling in the poll.

What really disgusts me is the fact that in several electorates where there is only a difference of 400 votes separating the contenders, there are 4,000 informal votes. This shows that a huge number of people are just too stupid to make a choice or just do not care.

That is shameful. We are living in I believe the most free country in the world yet people just do not care about letting it slide away from us.

Welfare recipients are over-represented in this country.

but are welfare recipients over represented in the informal vote number? My guess and its only a guess would be yes due to lower level of literacy especially in the indig population? Lets face it if you dropped out of school in year 9 or turned up once a week you wouldnt have the ability to understand the voting slips.
W

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worrier said..

but are welfare recipients over represented in the informal vote number? My guess and its only a guess would be yes due to lower level of literacy especially in the indig population? Lets face it if you dropped out of school in year 9 or turned up once a week you wouldnt have the ability to understand the voting slips.
W

It would be interesting to have a statistical measure of the level of education of the average Aussie today. I am sure it has fallen over recent decades.

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worrier said..

but are welfare recipients over represented in the informal vote number? My guess and its only a guess would be yes due to lower level of literacy especially in the indig population? Lets face it if you dropped out of school in year 9 or turned up once a week you wouldnt have the ability to understand the voting slips.
W

I can tell you that there are plenty of intended Liberal votes ending up informal, mostly people putting a '1' in the Liberal candidate box and not filling out the rest of the form.

If you have 5 House of Reps candidates, then there are two basic formal votes allowed.

"1,2,3,4,5" or "1,2,3,4, ". (They allow one box to be empty, and say that it is considered to be your last preference.) You could also write the numbers in words, or roman numerals.

Here are the most common unintended informal votes, and it seems the LIB and ALP supporters are both equally adept at providing them.

"1, , , , ". (ie. filling out only one box.)
"X, , , , ".
"X,2,3,4,5". (Yep, it's informal, and heaps of people do it. Same if you provided a TICK instead of a CROSS.)
"1,2,3,4,6". (Is it really that hard to count to '5'?)
"1,2,4,5,6". (etc.)
"1,2, , , , ".
"1,2,3, , ".

Here are the top intended ones.

" , , , , ". (ie. blank form.)
"X,X,X,X,X".
"0,0,0,0,0".
"F,*,C,K,U". (They don't put an asterisk.)
"62,55,32,187,54". (Insert your favourite random numbers.)
"P,I,Z,Z,A". (My personal favourite.)

A surprising amount of people don't even think that it might be a good idea to put in a little effort to make their numbers legible. There's also an incredible abundance of hastily drawn phalli.

I am so worried about making sure my vote counts that I check and re-check the voting cards.

I'd even prefer it if it was online so you could make sure that your vote is legit.

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cisco said..
A landslide victory either way would at least show there is a bit of feeling in the poll.

What really disgusts me is the fact that in several electorates where there is only a difference of 400 votes separating the contenders, there are 4,000 informal votes. This shows that a huge number of people are just too stupid to make a choice or just do not care.

That is shameful. We are living in I believe the most free country in the world yet people just do not care about letting it slide away from us.

Welfare recipients are over-represented in this country.

Well, from Harrow's comments, the 'too stupid' informal voters seem to be Liberal voters, although I am guessing that the welfare recipients might have a larger share of the phallus votes

I agree though. If you care about keeping a country great, vote, and do it for what you believe in.

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FormulaNova said..

Well, from Harrow's comments, the 'too stupid' informal voters seem to be Liberal voters, although I am guessing that the welfare recipients might have a larger share of the phallus votes

I agree though. If you care about keeping a country great, vote, and do it for what you believe in.

The ironic thing is that while those people who only number a single box are trying to stop their preference going to anyone else, they're actually stopping their preferred candidate from getting their vote!

Just saw some further results, more informal votes than for the Nat's.

Wow shows the state of the nation.

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cisco said...

GreenPat said..

eppo said..
The fuedal lord system of debt enslavery is well and truly entrenched now.

We should call it the "Feudal Election" instead of the Federal.

I was going to suggest "The Feral Election". I spent the day handing out how to vote flyers and the only people who came in well dressed and in a good humour were the old folk over 60.

The rest were grumpy, arrogant and scruffily dressed. The wishy-washy electorate got what it wanted and deserves, a wishy-washy government.

I am quite disgusted with how empty headed most Australians seem to have become.

IMO Cisco, it's the people in the two major political parties you should be disgusted with.

This I think has been one of the best elections I've seen to date.

Maybe the two big wishy washy political parties who seem to change leaders like soiled underpants come time to think about an election, might sit down now and think about the last 10 or so years of hot potato they've played in front of the Australian people.

Maybe next election people might be inclined to put numbers down on their ballot paper, instead of something phallic.

^^^^ Spot on Sub

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Subsonic said..


IMO Cisco, it's the people in the two major political parties you should be disgusted with.

This I think has been one of the best elections I've seen to date.

Maybe the two big wishy washy political parties who seem to change leaders like soiled underpants come time to think about an election, might sit down now and think about the last 10 or so years of hot potato they've played in front of the Australian people.

Maybe next election people might be inclined to put numbers down on their ballot paper, instead of something phallic.

Well one thing is for sure, I am disgusted with what has happened in this election.

Many are saying that the two major parties have not been listening to the electorate and are both out of touch with the people. I believe that is the case.

Another school of thought says that the major urban centres (ie the capital cities) are over-represented in Canberra. I believe that is also the case. Regional and rural Australia does not get much of a look in.

The minor parties and independents field more in regional and rural seats from what I can see.

I live in the regional electorate of Bundaberg and I vote for the person, not the party. I know the guy, what he has done and where he comes from. I imagine there is not a high percentage of voters get that sort of insight into their candidates.

The duopoly politics has to change.

Maybe we should have a scale of ten points with zero in the middle and five on the right being "The Far Right" and five on the left being "The Far Left". Each point on the scale would have a definition of policies on economics, conservation, social issues, foreign policy, etc, etc and then instead of having candidates from this party or that they should just declare the point of the scale they are on, ie far R or L, moderate R or L, centre R or L, etc, etc.

Then the voter would not have to think about or vote for the person. They can vote on which part of the scale their thinking lies in. If there are more than one candidate in the winning point of the scale you could then just run a popularity vote between them.

I don't think many people have a clue what they are voting for the way things are.

Oh!! Labour is the workers party, isn't it?? No.

Oh!! If you are in or work for small business, you have to vote Liberal don't you?? No.