Do they do it anywhere else in the whole wide world? What are they thinking? At least they are considering coming to their senses.
www.smh.com.au/national/this-year-312-people-have-not-come-home-after-a-day-on-the-road-20191104-p5376y.html

Ian, which bit are you asking about? The article I read on this today says that in Vic they don't have the warning signs already and its not that different to NSW.

When I did a bit of a drive up to Mackay Qld years ago, it qas quite obvious where the radar units were. They were marked quite obviously and all the other motorists warned you anyway.

So, you can see two alternatives. Is one better than the other?

The same article I read today had the NRMA suggesting that the best approach would be more cops on the road. I agree. Coming back from the snow this year I saw really stupid things, but when there were cop cars doing laps, things seemed to slow down to a sensible speed.

You can see this coming. The road stats are up, so instead of criticising the lazy approach, they are now pushing for the lazy approach with no signs.

You can almost predict the outcome. Fine revenue will go up, but road deaths will also go up as they put their faith in the cameras to solve the problem.

I remember seen those in WA last decade...

Select to expand quote

novetti said..
I remember seen those in WA last decade...

Last decade they changed the word to "seeing". Its been spelt like that over here for a decade now, so should change over there soon.

I reckon the signs have an effect just like drug dogs outside music events. The kids eat all their pills in one go to avoid getting caught and thus OD. Drivers slam on the brakes and get rear ended by the car behind.
Seriously, warning signs kill the point of speed cameras.

I thought we were the stupid state over here in WA when we had those signs. But no, its NSW

People love to whinge about revenue raising speed cameras, but nothing is more effective at getting people to drive carefully than having only a demerit point or two left before they lose their licence

The fines help a little too, but only for broke people i reakon

I remember when WA first brought in the cameras. At the time the govt guaranteed there would be visible signs to calm the anti revenue raiser arguments. Only ever to be operated by specially trained cops.

No signs here anymore, private contractors only. not sure when the law was changed. must have been done quietly.

went past one the other day in his usual spot again- sitting behind a tree 30m inside the 110k sign as you LEAVE the 80k zone.

If it was for safety it would be the other way round but that would get less juicy fines

its just a business now.

Select to expand quote

beefarmer said..
...but nothing is more effective at getting people to drive carefully than having only a demerit point or two left before they lose their licence

The fines help a little too, but only for broke people i reakon

So true, I lost all my points, except 1, in just two months a while back. Having to drive on 1 point for 3 years made me the most careful driver in the world.

You're the exception that proves the rule then Harrow. Statistics show that the number of demerit points held by a driver correlates strongly with the probability of a subsequent accident. 16 times more likely for someone with 11 demerit points than someone with none!

pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8b97/53bc50194c5afef90f85c4a5d04fc554335c.pdf




"For both these models, the proportion of drivers amongst the 500 highest scoring drivers who were subsequently involved in 1993-1994 crashes was 12.4%, ie. considerably greater than the 7.3% crash-involvement rate for the top 500 drivers identified by the initial model which did not use prior offence data. The corresponding crash-involvement rate for all drivers in the database was 0.76%."


If Victorians are anything to go by 67.7 % of us have no demerit points. Table 7 Victorian Demerit Points Scheme - Distribution of Demerit Points

No. of Percentage
Demerit
Points
All drivers/riders 3 064 000 100.00 %
Drivers/riders - no demerit points at 30/3/93 2 074 700 67.71 %
Drivers/riders with one demerit point 349 889 11.42 %
Drivers/riders with two demerit points 99 126 3.24 %
Drivers/riders with three demerit points 247 056 8.06 %
Drivers/riders with four demerit points 104 739 3.42 %
Drivers/riders with five or six demerit points 96 788 3.16 %
Drivers/riders with seven to ten demerit points 76 120 2.48 %
Drivers/riders with eleven demerit points 5 990 0.20 %
>=12 pts - taken a 3 month suspension 8 550 0.28 %
>=12 pts - succeeded with 12 month option 6 281 0.20 %
>=12 pts - failed the 12 month option 1 005 0.03 %
>=12 pts - cannot be found - 1992/93 903 0.03 %

Visible Policing is the tried and proven method, not only are speeds monitored, but other driving habits adjusted.
Speed cameras are nothing more than revenue raisers, and a lazy shonky way policing road users.
Be on the end of some clowns speed transgression that causes an accident, to find out later the same clown was booked via a speed camera ten so kilometers back. Got a ticket in the mail few weeks later, but way too late for those involved.
And no, haven't had a speed ticket for years, as my work role kept me on the road for some extended periods.

The only way to keep your points is to try and drive 5 ks under .
Then it pi's ses everyone off .
It is impossible to drive at the limit and only two ks over . Three and your done.
We have no warning in Vic
And if we super behaved , the government still needs the money , so we will get booked at one k over .
You may laugh , but how long do you think it will be before fines are issued through the gps system in your car that is connected to the government ?
We can't hide .
I suppose new cars max speed will be governed by gps and posted speed limits .

Select to expand quote

Imax1 said..
The only way to keep your points is to try and drive 5 ks under .
Then it pi's ses everyone off .
It is impossible to drive at the limit and only two ks over . Three and your done.
We have no warning in Vic
And if we super behaved , the government still needs the money , so we will get booked at one k over .
You may laugh , but how long do you think it will be before fines are issued through the gps system in your car that is connected to the government ?
We can't hide .
I suppose new cars max speed will be governed by gps and posted speed limits .

Is that really the way it is in Vic? In NSW, you seem to be able to get away with a few ks over. You would think that only 1 km over would be contestable as its so close.

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..
Do they do it anywhere else in the whole wide world? What are they thinking? At least they are considering coming to their senses.
www.smh.com.au/national/this-year-312-people-have-not-come-home-after-a-day-on-the-road-20191104-p5376y.html

WHY NOT? , WHAT HAPPENED UPON THEM ???

... anywhere else in the world either....

Select to expand quote

Imax1 said..
The only way to keep your points is to try and drive 5 ks under .
Then it pi's ses everyone off .

We have no warning in Vic

That's an exaggeration, It doesn't pi's everyone off. Those stats above are specifically for the 3 064 000 drivers of Victoria. 67% of them have no demerit points. You're only pi's ing off the 3.6% who game the system by floating around the 5 or 6 mark.

(Keeping your "points" is an interesting turnaround of the intention)

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
The only way to keep your points is to try and drive 5 ks under .
Then it pi's ses everyone off .
It is impossible to drive at the limit and only two ks over . Three and your done.
We have no warning in Vic
And if we super behaved , the government still needs the money , so we will get booked at one k over .
You may laugh , but how long do you think it will be before fines are issued through the gps system in your car that is connected to the government ?
We can't hide .
I suppose new cars max speed will be governed by gps and posted speed limits .

Is that really the way it is in Vic? In NSW, you seem to be able to get away with a few ks over. You would think that only 1 km over would be contestable as its so close.

Now it's three km over .
What I'm saying , if we behave they will probably do one k over .

Select to expand quote

Bara said..No signs here anymore, private contractors only.

Dunno about that, speed cameras around my area always have warning signs - being waved frantically by a local bloke in hi-vis.

I told my minions he must have been a naughty boy and is doing his community service.

Select to expand quote

sn said..

Bara said..No signs here anymore, private contractors only.

Dunno about that, speed cameras around my area always have warning signs - being waved frantically by a local bloke in hi-vis.

I told my minions he must have been a naughty boy and is doing his community service.

He is obviously concerned about the safety of the community and wants to make sure that everyone is safe and not endangering their own lives by accidentally speeding. The guy deserves a medal. I hope the cops see this and give him a community award!

Reminds me of a joke about two mates, one held a sign before a speed trap warning drivers, "Speed Trap ahead!" His mate was just beyond with a sign asking "was it worth a buck?"

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..
Do they do it anywhere else in the whole wide world? What are they thinking? At least they are considering coming to their senses.
www.smh.com.au/national/this-year-312-people-have-not-come-home-after-a-day-on-the-road-20191104-p5376y.html

Here, they have speed traps advertised in the newspaper when and where they'll be. Basically, a week or so at the start of the new season is "safety week" and there are cops at stop signs too.

In NZ, I've had friends who've gotten "1km over the limit" tickets.... and there's at least one place where average speed cameras are going in because the $12m a year they used to get from the speed camera in that ONE location has evaporated because ... nobody is speeding.

Get the cops off the road, put cameras everywhere. Another death in NZ last week due to police chasing some car to give them a $100 ticket

Yet even with a warning sign IN FRONT of the camera Hidden at the top of a hill in a candy car they can still catch people.

How stupid and incompetent are they?

Fark mi they should cut up their license at the very least

There should be no need for speed cameras if we used technology. Any car that can do more than 2X the speed limit could be fitted with a data logger that both records speed and sends a message to law enforcement. That could also be a requirement for drivers of less powerful vehicles who already have a poor record.
Fast cars are a product which, if used as designed, are illegal.

Select to expand quote

Mr Milk said..
There should be no need for speed cameras if we used technology. Any car that can do more than 2X the speed limit could be fitted with a data logger that both records speed and sends a message to law enforcement. That could also be a requirement for drivers of less powerful vehicles who already have a poor record.
Fast cars are a product which, if used as designed, are illegal.

2X which speed limit? 110kmph or 60kmph?

I think it would be a good idea for serial offenders, but some of these people would drive dangerously in any car they drive, so what happens if they borrow someone else's car?

Its sad when you watch some of those police programs and the driver is someone that has already lost their license or has been banned from driving for a long time, yet they still seem to keep driving and even then still get caught. What do you do about those people other than locking them up?

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
I think it would be a good idea for serial offenders, but some of these people would drive dangerously in any car they drive, so what happens if they borrow someone else's car?

That's why you would apply it to all fast cars. If using a borrowed car, the owner could bear the fine and points or nominate the person who they loaned the car to.

Select to expand quote

Mr Milk said..

FormulaNova said..
I think it would be a good idea for serial offenders, but some of these people would drive dangerously in any car they drive, so what happens if they borrow someone else's car?

That's why you would apply it to all fast cars. If using a borrowed car, the owner could bear the fine and points or nominate the person who they loaned the car to.

I have a car that's capable of that speed (at least I think it is). It doesn't mean that I would ever dream of doing that. Should the logger be sending data about whenever I exceed the speed limit, or just when I exceed it by twice the posted limit?

If I then used another car that wasn't capable of doing those speeds, and then did 160kmph on a freeway, am I then any safer to other people?

I think there are more people likely to cause accidents at 140kmph than at 220kmph, as someone doing that second speed is not going to be doing that speed for long and not likely in any traffic at all. Considering that they would be approaching another car at a closing speed of 110kmph, its very unlikely that they would get away with it in control. The gaps that you need to do anything at that speed become huge and moderately spaced cars become like a solid wall to get past.

Going off on a tangent, an article I was reading about the highway patrol and catching people in seriously fast cars mentioned that braking became the leveller as a lot of cars are not designed for repeated heavy braking from high speeds, yet the cop cars are configured to try and get the best braking they can. I guess its one thing to hope you can keep driving at insane speeds through a town, but its another thing to keep the car in control while doing it.

NSW has 31% of the population, yet 29% of the accidents.

Having signs may actually be contributing to slow people down.

I think if the traffic lights were timed so once you're on a road and hit a set of lights then if you travel at the speed limit you get all green lights that would massively stop people speeding.
Driving up pennant hills road today & it's a fairly major road in Sydney if you took off from a green light by the time you get to the next it's red if travelling at speed limit but if you were speeding you could probably get through them & green all the way .
But at the speed limit it's always turns red stopping the flow from last green light .
They seem to be timed to disrupt traffic travelling at speed limit.
Is this a con to try & divert people to the toll ways?
Or is it forcing people to speed to get booked ?
Either way it's really bad management .
Ive rang the department of fair trading complaining about the tolls because they charge for a premium service but this is never delivered because there always under construction so you have to drive at a reduced speed limit for the road works .
What made me do that is seeing people get rebates from internet providers claiming a higher speed than what they actually received & getting rebates because the service they we're charging for was not provided & also people getting rebates from public transportation when it's delayed.
They bumped me over to the toll ombudsman as they agreed with what I was saying & so did the toll ombudsman but apparently it's out of there jurisdictions so I've now got to go to the minister for transportation or the premier to get an answer .
But in my mind it's the same.
I get charged to have a 100 kph driving road but it's 40 kph at best the service that I actually get .
If it was any other business they would have to rebate people for that discrepancy.

Select to expand quote

actiomax said..
I think if the traffic lights were timed so once you're on a road and hit a set of lights then if you travel at the speed limit you get all green lights that would massively stop people speeding.
Driving up pennant hills road today & it's a fairly major road in Sydney if you took off from a green light by the time you get to the next it's red if travelling at speed limit but if you were speeding you could probably get through them & green all the way .
But at the speed limit it's always turns red stopping the flow from last green light .
They seem to be timed to disrupt traffic travelling at speed limit.
Is this a con to try & divert people to the toll ways?
Or is it forcing people to speed to get booked ?
Either way it's really bad management .
Ive rang the department of fair trading complaining about the tolls because they charge for a premium service but this is never delivered because there always under construction so you have to drive at a reduced speed limit for the road works .
What made me do that is seeing people get rebates from internet providers claiming a higher speed than what they actually received & getting rebates because the service they we're charging for was not provided & also people getting rebates from public transportation when it's delayed.
They bumped me over to the toll ombudsman as they agreed with what I was saying & so did the toll ombudsman but apparently it's out of there jurisdictions so I've now got to go to the minister for transportation or the premier to get an answer .
But in my mind it's the same.
I get charged to have a 100 kph driving road but it's 40 kph at best the service that I actually get .
If it was any other business they would have to rebate people for that discrepancy.

The good news is that if you are stuck in Sydney and pay $25 a week in tolls or more, you get your rego for free. At least the RMS part I think, which is pretty sucky as you are still paying at least $25 a week and getting stuck in crap toll roads.

What a system!

Speed cameras in west oz had signs warning you on approach up until around 5-8 years ago.
There was a documentary on tv the other night how they now have cameras they have designed to sit in a parked cars indicator location and get people.
This has nothing to do with road till and all to do with revenue, if it was about road toll they would pay an extra two cops and buy a car and get it out on the road.
hiding behind trees and putting illegally dark tint on the windows of cars taking the photos is no more than revenue raising and trying to extract extra tax from the population.
Reducing the road toll would require things that cost money and not make it. There is no other possible algorithm to do this.

Traffic light timing has indeed remained the same however now and the last 5 years it is intentional that city's and councils jam a 1km section of road that used to be 80 and now make it 70 or 60.
This is where they than install a red light/speed camera so your approaching on a green at the 70 instead of the historical 80 for that area. You know that your out of sync for the other 4 sets of lights on that road. Around 50 metres from crossing the white line the light goes orange, you do not have enough time to stop and yet to get through would mean doing 75 and getting a fine for speeding. Nonetheless getting a speeding fine for being slightly over is far better than running a red light.
This is also fortunate for our policy makers as a slight infraction takes a higher revenue per point yield than the larger point deduction and smaller relative revenue.
This enables farming the citizens and creating a stable revenue stream not only from fines but also the petrol tax

On the fast vehicle thing, I sold a seriously fast motorcycle as it was almost impossible to sit on 110. The thing was so damn "canny" it would pull at 110 in 4th, 5th and 6th to go faster. 3rd was alright, but who wants to be in 3rd at 110? The rising position didn't really become comfortable until 140 either.

Now I have a bike that is comfortable mechanically and ergonomically at 110, yet, click down two or three gears, and I am doing 160-170 by the time I have passed someone to pull in and get back on 110. I hate the thought of losing my licence for being momentarily at those speeds, while actually riding safely and overtaking safely. Less time in the wrong side of the road is good.

Power to weight, if it weighed the same as a Commodore it would be making a smidge over 500kw - if it weighed the same as my Patrol it would be about 800kw. I get to the speed limits very very quickly, but rarely speed other than overtaking.

The previous bike was great at 200 and had ample handling and braking in reserve, but I that is just a stupid speed.

back in the early 90s I lost all bar 1 point for multiple low grade speeding tickets rushing to work or uni. Driving around for two and a half years at the speed limit certainly changed my driving habits.

And motorcycling has made me a much much safer and courteous driver.

Dont speed and cameras aren't a problem.

Oh yeah, I practice emergency stops in my cars and bike. It is a necessary survival skill for motorcyclists that they get taught, yet car drivers never get trained on how hard they can slam on the skids, even with ABS.

50m should be heaps to stop at 80.

I drive at 160 Km/h regularly, never receive fines, and am traveling at the same speed most people of the road are traveling at. The deaths per thousand drivers is lower here than in Australia.