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remery said..

decrepit said..

And somehow shut up the climate change deniers with all their misinformation and negative spin.

The climate change deniers are typically low-IQ individuals who are told what to think by conservative media. We have been through this previously when Marlboro Cigarettes were one of the richest, possibly the richest, company in America. The fossil fuel industry is using exactly the same technique to "buy time". In fact, its no surprise that the fossily fuel industry is using the same media spin people to convince low-IQ individuals that CO2, like Tobacco, is good for them. Sadly half of Australia has an IQ below 100.

Have you quit fossil fuels or has the media spin been to difficult to resist.

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fangman said..
It's gratifying to see that explaining why the gap between intention and action occurs for humans, (when faced with a very large problem), only to find that the explanation causes offence to someone whose sole purpose is exploiting rather than addressing the issue. I think that is a fine example of the point I was trying to make.

On the other hand, it's a good thing I am a potato, otherwise I would feel embarrassed about asking for some clear instruction on what
"Sucks when you asked to back up a statement that was clearly just a shot from the hip." is actually about. Especially when I already said I didn't understand the request the first time.
Is there some requirement for me to name all the GenZ's I know and their achievements in walking the walk? That would seem a ridiculous request.
So is it something else? Or simply that when you have nothing of substance to offer, offence (by parroting Murdoch's puppets) is the best defence, so let's just go hard with a gattling gun of poo throwing?

Or share your experiences of youth making sacrifices for the benefit of the planet.

I guess it's easier to attack me then back up a statement you made.

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cammd said..

Have you quit fossil fuels or has the media spin been to difficult to resist.

Great news. My electricity bill just came in. It's -$230.

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cammd said..

Or share your experiences of youth making sacrifices for the benefit of the planet.

I guess it's easier to attack me then back up a statement you made.

Or share your experience of making stuff up. It won't be hard.

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decrepit said..

cammd said..>>> Fred Hollows comes to mind as a great example.

Well there are saints, and there are ordinary people.
You don't expect everybody to be saints do you?

No I don't but neither should you be a blatant hypocrite calling for action on a cause and doing nothing real to take that action for yourself.

Imagine calling for a ban on tobacco in between taking a puff on your Marlboro cigarette. How much credibility would you have. None right. How stupid would you look. Really stupid.

I guess you could say well I want tobacco banned but there's no point me quitting until that happens because just one person quitting doesn't make a difference.

What would you think of somone who behaved like that, would you think they're serious about their cause. Not likely.

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remery said..

cammd said..

Or share your experiences of youth making sacrifices for the benefit of the planet.

I guess it's easier to attack me then back up a statement you made.

Or share your experience of making stuff up. It won't be hard.

Have you quit fossil fuels yet or not

What stuff have I made up, don't be vague

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cammd said..

No I don't but neither should you be a blatant hypocrite calling for action on a cause and doing nothing real to take that action for yourself.

Imagine calling for a ban on tobacco in between taking a puff on your Marlboro cigarette. How much credibility would you have. None right. How stupid would you look. Really stupid.

I guess you could say well I want tobacco banned but there's no point me quitting until that happens because just one person quitting doesn't make a difference.

What would you think of somone who behaved like that, would you think they're serious about their cause. Not likely.

Like many Luddites, you appear unable to see the big picture. While also refusing to consider the future environment that you will leave our children.

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cammd said..>>> and doing nothing real to take that action for yourself.

Please explain what I'm not doing and how you know it.

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remery said..
Great news. My electricity bill just came in. It's -$230.

Great news. 230 bucks of pure profit.

All you had to do was put up your $25k solar panel array, hook it up via the $3k inverter to the $16k battery pack and da-da, 230 guilt-free bucks.

So, what ya gonna spend it on ? Week-end away in the V8 ? airline ticket of an overseas holiday ? Maybe update some perfectly functioning tech with some exactly the same functioning, but new, plastic tech product ?

Hey, with those kinds of returns maybe you could go hang out with all the kool-kids in the bitcoin thread ?

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Carantoc said..

Great news. 230 bucks of pure profit.

All you had to do was put up your $25k solar panel array, hook it up via the $3k inverter to the $16k battery pack and da-da, 230 guilt-free bucks.

So, what ya gonna spend it on ? Week-end away in the V8 ? airline ticket of an overseas holiday ? Maybe update some perfectly functioning tech with some exactly the same functioning, but new, plastic tech product ?

Hey, with those kinds of returns maybe you could go hang out with all the kool-kids in the bitcoin thread ?

Divide by ten.

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cammd said..
Imagine calling for a ban on tobacco in between taking a puff on your Marlboro cigarette. How much credibility would you have. None right. How stupid would you look. Really stupid.

What would you think of somone

define looking stupid....

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Froth Goth said..

cammd said..
Imagine calling for a ban on tobacco in between taking a puff on your Marlboro cigarette. How much credibility would you have. None right. How stupid would you look. Really stupid.

What would you think of somone

define looking stupid....

STUPID
Adjective
Having a complete lack of intelligence or common sense
Similar: ignorant, unintelligent, remery

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decrepit said..

cammd said..>>> and doing nothing real to take that action for yourself.

Please explain what I'm not doing and how you know it.

Wasn't a specific attack on your lifestyle, rather I was taking aim at many who preach net zero whilst at the same time doing as carantoc mentions above ie

Update perfectly good tech
Take holidays in planes overseas
Runs aircons day and night
Own cars and boats and toys etc

Going back to pre industrial lifestyle is unrealistic, it's as unrealistic and banning fossil fuels. However what you could do that is realistic is live very very simply and very small.

Ie no car, no boat, no aircon, no new tech, no toys like windsurfers or kites, no holidays that require travel of any distance etc etc. A small house that needs minimal heating as cooling. Grow your own veggies, no uber eats (younger gen don't use that much do they fangy), shop at vinnies for clothes etc etc.

There is lots that climate alarmists could do to live closer to their principles but how many do, how many activist hypocrites call on others to end fossil fuels and take climate action but do Sweet FA themselves.

I don't know what you do or don't do, I don't know if your being hypocritical or not, that's a question for you.

I do know that saying it's to hard for one person to make a difference doesn't cut it, that is a cop out thought up by climate crazies to ease their guilt. Practice what you preach.

Sounds hyperbolic to me. All you have to is reign in your electricity consumption and drive a small car. And yes, dump some of those excessive toys, get pv on the roof. Avoid flying. Open the windows and get naked before running the AC or go to the mall.

That's pretty much my life. I live small.

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GasHazard said.. >That's pretty much my life. I live small.

In a nutshell, the best you can do personally.

We aren't responsible for what anybody else does, but we need to be responsible for ourselves.
If everybody did that the World would be a much better place.

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cammd said..>>> I don't know what you do or don't do, I don't know if your being hypocritical or not, that's a question for you.

Your post didn't sound like that, but thanks for clarifying.

Just as an aside, as you are being so critical of other people, what do you do yourself to help the planet?????

Maybe the target should be Net 87.2% ?

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GasHazard said..
Sounds hyperbolic to me. All you have to is reign in your electricity consumption and drive a small car. And yes, dump some of those excessive toys, get pv on the roof. Avoid flying. Open the windows and get naked before running the AC or go to the mall.

That's pretty much my life. I live small.

I think that might have been the point of this thread 10 pages ago.

Those things might be considered net better, net reasonable, net realistic, or net acceptable. But it isn't acheiving net zero.

And going all-in for net zero, and then inevitably failing, is probably gonna be a worse outcome than actually achieving net GazHazard, when the difference between net zero and net GazHazard has no measurable difference to the planet anyway.


#Not saying I agree or disagree with that assessment, just that I kinda understood that was what the original point was about.

The point is ----
Net zero is the best way to avoid climate change.
2nd best is geoengineering, CO2 sequestration, and sun refection systems. Bad side effects?
Individuals can't achieve net zero by themselves, it takes the whole planet in a cooperative technological effort.
Could happen when it's too late to avert the worst outcomes, but it's possible I think.
That's if all the other negative stuff doesn't destroy civilization first.

So what you can do is minimize your carbon footprint as much as possible, and vote for whoever can help you do that.

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decrepit said..
The point is ----
Net zero is the best way to avoid climate change.
2nd best is geoengineering, CO2 sequestration, and sun refection systems. Bad side effects?

I think we've agreed net zero, especially by 2050, won't happen. We could hope that a natural sink of CO2 steps up to the plate and saves us? But then the new scientist just reports that the Tundra has turned from a sink to a source. (That's the Arctic Tundra not the Toyota). www.newscientist.com/article/2459972-arctic-tundra-is-now-a-source-not-a-sink-of-carbon-emissions/

But you've got to wonder about the New Scientist
www.newscientist.com/article/2464625-fire-at-worlds-largest-battery-facility-is-a-clean-energy-setback/
"A fire at the world's largest battery storage plant in California destroyed 300 megawatts of energy storage" ??

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decrepit said..

cammd said..>>> I don't know what you do or don't do, I don't know if your being hypocritical or not, that's a question for you.

Your post didn't sound like that, but thanks for clarifying.

Just as an aside, as you are being so critical of other people, what do you do yourself to help the planet?????

I raised 5 eco warriors of the new generation, sure they like aircons and cars, uber eats and travelling overseas and stuff but given they are from the generation that will save the planet I think that makes me net zero.

Also moving off grid onto a boat soon, will be watching every amp. Don't won't to run that diesel gel set to long.

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decrepit said..

cammd said..>>> I don't know what you do or don't do, I don't know if your being hypocritical or not, that's a question for you.

Your post didn't sound like that, but thanks for clarifying.

Just as an aside, as you are being so critical of other people, what do you do yourself to help the planet?????

I raised 5 eco warriors of the new generation, sure they like aircons and cars, uber eats and travelling overseas and stuff but given they are from the generation that will save the planet I think that makes me net zero.

Also moving off grid onto a boat soon, will be watching every amp. Don't won't to run that diesel gel set to long.

That sounds responsible enough, I can't claim any better.

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cammd said..

decrepit said..

cammd said..>>> Fred Hollows comes to mind as a great example.

Well there are saints, and there are ordinary people.
You don't expect everybody to be saints do you?

No I don't but neither should you be a blatant hypocrite calling for action on a cause and doing nothing real to take that action for yourself.

Imagine calling for a ban on tobacco in between taking a puff on your Marlboro cigarette. How much credibility would you have. None right. How stupid would you look. Really stupid.

I guess you could say well I want tobacco banned but there's no point me quitting until that happens because just one person quitting doesn't make a difference.

What would you think of somone who behaved like that, would you think they're serious about their cause. Not likely.

I originally thought that trying to equate Climate change and tobacco wouldn't really work.

But I think it can.
Someone addicted to Nicotine could definitely call for a ban on tobacco, they may feel they can't quit and are calling for a ban to prevent people getting hooked in the future.

The vast majority of us are only able to take action by making small changes in how we purchase goods.
Right now, choosing to purchase alternatives that are better for the environment in the long run can be (not always) a much more expensive option. Therefore lots of people cannot choose them, despite having the desire to do so.

Does that make them hypocrites?

We're not expecting everyone to go "cold turkey " on fossil fuels, but we're asking for assistance to reduce their use.

Loads of people can't afford solar and batteries, but Government can change policy to ensure that renewable are a larger part of our power supply.

Loads of people need to own and use private vehicles for transport because our cities and public transport systems are unable to provide a viable alternative.

Our places of work, our industries, our transport systems etc can all reduce their Impact on our climate. But we, as individuals, can only make changes to them by voting for a government that will change policy.

meh, reading that I think your first idea was probably right.

Besides, if you don't think we should go cold turkey on fossil fuels you are part of the problem and thus guilty of genocide.

juststopoil.org/our-demand/
juststopoil.org/genocide/

You need to be pragmatic on this. Going for the ideal option, that has no chance of working in a democracy, is not the best way forward.

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decrepit said..
You need to be pragmatic on this. Going for the ideal option, that has no chance of working in a democracy, is not the best way forward.

Are you suggesting again we forego democracy so a benevolent authority can solve the climate crisis.

Or suggesting that we do build nuclear generation to backup renewables to achieve net zero, because there is no other pragmatic option

Or suggesting that we use gas to backup renewables because net zero.zero is not pragmatic and the greenhouse gases emitted by the relatively small amount of gas we might burn to do so is pretty well irrelevant from a scientific perspective.

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D3 said..

We're not expecting everyone to go "cold turkey " on fossil fuels, but we're asking for assistance to reduce their use.

Had to pass the nose of an idling DCU on the way to Coles. It's already hot today. passing the nose of a hot diesel doesn't help. Now the compressor in an AC unit takes about a kW. A DCU burns about 1.5 litres per hour at idle. Heat of combustion of diesel is 44.8 Mj/litre. So that's 1.5 X 44.8X1000/3600 kilojoules per second. = 18.8 kW! To run a 1 kW AC compressor! It takes a lot of energy to slide those pistons up and down. Way more than to turn the compressor. Got to be the most wasteful use of fossil fuel on the planet.

Anyway, he was still idling when I came by again with all the groceries.

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cammd said..>>>Are you suggesting again we forego democracy so a benevolent authority can solve the climate crisis.

Again?????
I may have said that would be ideal, but how can you guarantee benevolence?????
Yes that's one alternative, a world wide authoritarian Govt. That thought is horrifying to me. No democracy unfortunately is failing, but it's the best alternative at the moment.

Carantoc. Nuclear isn't an option at the moment, too expensive and going to take too long for us at least. The best option is still renewables, but we have to be more clever about it.

All this stuff was predicted many years ago. If we'd started then it wouldn't be so hard now.