It is 2024, so why can't you donate using bitcoin ?

ae911truth.networkforgood.com/projects/209042-sustaining-donors

This looks like a great scam. You're sure to find someone that will send you some money. I wonder what else they are collecting donations for?

We need to stop hoarding Bitcoin and start using it for everyday transactions, next time you have a tradie work on your house or you buy fruit and veg at the markets offer them Bitcoin.
If you have a business and your sick of getting slugged by the government and banks start offering Bitcoin as an acceptable payment method.
Keep it decentralized.

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snoidberg said..
We need to stop hoarding Bitcoin and start using it for everyday transactions, next time you have a tradie work on your house or you buy fruit and veg at the markets offer them Bitcoin.
If you have a business and your sick of getting slugged by the government and banks start offering Bitcoin as an acceptable payment method.
Keep it decentralized.

I think people need to horde bitcoin, it'll be the only way to secure your future as Australia heads towards a depression next year that will last half a decade.

www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/01/australia-facing-a-depression-that-will-last-a-half-a-decade/

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snoidberg said..
We need to stop hoarding Bitcoin and start using it for everyday transactions, next time you have a tradie work on your house or you buy fruit and veg at the markets offer them Bitcoin.
If you have a business and your sick of getting slugged by the government and banks start offering Bitcoin as an acceptable payment method.
Keep it decentralized.

This is why bitcoin will never be money. People who spend it on stuff regret it.

I am no fan of fiat currency controlled by bankers and politicians. However the one great failing of fiat currency, it's constant falling value is also it's great strength. Its falling value encourages the holders of the currency to spend it. I was thinking about this when watching what is going on in Argentina. They have a currency that is heading towards being worth zero. As a result only fools save it. The same is happening here to a lesser extent. Buy stuff, invest, do something with your cash. Don't have it sitting there doing nothing. Bitcoin is the opposite.

From my understanding the last bitcoin will be mined in around 200 years. Once it is mined the value of existing bitcoins will be zero. Bitcoin mining runs the network. The incentive to mine is to get bitcoin. When the last coin is mined no one will want to mine so there will be no computers running the network.
For sure the Australian dollar will probably be long gone in 200 years. Most probably gold will still be a precious metal in 200 years.

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myscreenname said..
I think people need to horde bitcoin....

What else can you do with it ?

On a side note I am looking to purchase beb48ca0c9d10ac52ee94937386ca9385695f04ed if anyone knows of its where abouts. Just sentimental reasons.

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Mobydisc said..From my understanding the last bitcoin will be mined in around 200 years. Once it is mined the value of existing bitcoins will be zero. Bitcoin mining runs the network. The incentive to mine is to get bitcoin. When the last coin is mined no one will want to mine so there will be no computers running the network.

That's not entirely true. Besides mining, bitcoin players earn money through collecting transaction fees, just like banks do on cards etc.
A quick Google enquiry gets me to
Node operators can earn small amounts of Bitcoin through transaction fees when they help distribute transactions across the network. While these rewards may not be significant, they can add up over time and provide a small stream of income for individuals who are already committed to running their own nodes

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Mobydisc said..
This is why bitcoin will never be money. People who spend it on stuff regret it.

I am no fan of fiat currency controlled by bankers and politicians. However the one great failing of fiat currency, it's constant falling value is also it's great strength. Its falling value encourages the holders of the currency to spend it. I was thinking about this when watching what is going on in Argentina. They have a currency that is heading towards being worth zero. As a result only fools save it. The same is happening here to a lesser extent. Buy stuff, invest, do something with your cash. Don't have it sitting there doing nothing. Bitcoin is the opposite.

From my understanding the last bitcoin will be mined in around 200 years. Once it is mined the value of existing bitcoins will be zero. Bitcoin mining runs the network. The incentive to mine is to get bitcoin. When the last coin is mined no one will want to mine so there will be no computers running the network.
For sure the Australian dollar will probably be long gone in 200 years. Most probably gold will still be a precious metal in 200 years.

So in 200 years, when you think bitcoin goes to zero make sure you tell me "I told you so".

Up anther 6% today. The news of the approval of the ETF status will be announced in two days. Bitcoin halving happens in a few months. I'm thinking another ATH will come this year.

Bitcoin is a store of wealth, will never become something the greater population will use to pay for goods and services. There are just too few people invested in it compared to the overall population. Personally I know no one who invests in it so the chance of finding a tradie or shop to accept it is remote.

And the next question is what is one Bitcoin worth? It's worth one Bitcoin, but we have to convert it to a US$ or AUD$ to find a value. So if the AUD$ or US$ cease to exist, how do we value a Bitcoin?

And it's so bloody volatile, how would you be signing a contract on a house for 20 Bitcoin, and it goes up or down 6% in a day.

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airsail said..
And the next question is what is one Bitcoin worth? It's worth one Bitcoin, but we have to convert it to a US$ or AUD$ to find a value. So if the AUD$ or US$ cease to exist, how do we value a Bitcoin?

So it's no different to anything else we buy and sell. One bitcoin is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. What sets it apart from many other assets is it's very liquid, I could cash out any time, day and night and immediately know it's value and get cash for it.

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airsail said..
And it's so bloody volatile, how would you be signing a contract on a house for 20 Bitcoin, and it goes up or down 6% in a day.

But you are measuring that volatility against a third factor.

You pay 20 bitcoin for a house, then the house is worth 20 bitcoin. Unless you are looking to sell the house a day later and it is now only worth 18.8 bitcoins then there isn't 6% volatility in the value of bitcoin.

And why would you buy something with bitcoin if you only ever measure the value of both bitcoin and what you are buying against the dollar. Why not just buy using dollars and cut the middleman out.

Pretty sure anyone actually using bitcoin for transactions (other than speculation using dollars) doesn't percieve bitcoin's value as being volatile. They all see it as being secure.

Not suggesting that is what I see it as.

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myscreenname said..

So it's no different to anything else we buy and sell. One bitcoin is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. What sets it apart from many other assets is it's very liquid, I could cash out any time, day and night and immediately know it's value and get cash for it.

But that's where I don't agree.

Everything else we buy and sell has an alternate value, a value that can be meausred against its usefulness.

A car, a can of peaches, a house, an online education course, even some art. They all have a purpose and therefore a value outside of what somebody might speculate their value is.

If I thought people would pay $50 for a six pack of toilet paper next week then I'd speculate on buying some toilet paper. But I don't, so I won't. I buy toilet paper for a different reason. The Doctor buys it for another reason.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic use or purpose, and thus no value other than as a curiostiy, gambling or speculating.

Unfortunately for my opinion, I have to concede that it does look like anyone buying bitcoin is going to get rich quick faster than me. But I don't care. 'Cause I say my opinon is right and a bitcoin ain't worth more to me than my ego being right. (......yet)

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Carantoc said...

Bitcoin has no intrinsic use or purpose, and thus no value other than as a curiostiy, gambling or speculating.

Slightly incorrect. Bitcoins value was in being able to evade the law when purchasing illegal drugs and other fun stuff. Hard to imagine junkies scoring a hit online for $35,000.

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Carantoc said..
Bitcoin has no intrinsic use or purpose, and thus no value other than as a curiostiy, gambling or speculating.

That's where you are very wrong. It does have a use and that's why governments and Central Banks around the world are racing to use this very same technology, to try lock us in. It's called CBDC. They want to know exactly what we are spending and when. They want total control of the population.



But getting back to your question. I can send bitcoin to anyone in the world with an internet connection, for any purpose, and without any government intervention, in seconds for a very small fee. Try sending money to someone in Gaza today, and tell me how much it costs, when they would receive it and how you would approach it.

That's why bitcoin is one of the most important inventions of the 20th Century. Bug A Salt didn't make the list.

finance.yahoo.com/news/25-most-important-inventions-21st-204141013.html

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Blockchain technology employs a highly decentralized, tamper-resistant ledger that records transactions across a network of computers. This ensures transparency and security and thus, reduces the risk of fraud and manipulation. Beyond cryptocurrency applications, blockchain can transform industries through applications in supply chain management by ensuring the authenticity and traceability of products.

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Carantoc said..
Everything else we buy and sell has an alternate value, a value that can be meausred against its usefulness.

What is the alternative value of buying $USD or any other currency, rare number plates, memorabilia, football cards, lottery tickets.....

Bitcoin is an alternative currency and many people believe it will win out against central currencies long term.

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myscreenname said..
What is the alternative value of buying...

$USD - it is debt from the US Government and a guarantee that the US government will provide you with something. If nobody else wants to buy my USD and give me an Aussie doller for it I can still go to the US central bank and get something. A bit of gold, a service or whatever.

or any other currency - same thing from those place, Some are less trustworthy or less trusted than the US to honour that debt.

rare number plates - I can drive my car on the road with one. Why people want to pay extra just to have some different numbers or letter than somebody else got me beat, but a number plate has a use other than swapping it for a dollar.

memorabilia - I can look at it and reminisce about that time Warnie hit the winning home run. Or put it on and run around the yard pretending to be as fast as the lightening Bolt.

football cards - I have a picture of every person in the team from 2021 and can sit about with my many friends looking at each team and deciding who the worst player was.

lottery tickets - chance to win something. A fleeting, unlikely chance but a chance. If nobody wants to swap my ticket with the numbers 1,2,3,4&5 (powerball 13) on it I still got a chance elsewhere for the big one.




I think of it this way - if nobody out there wants to swap my thing for something else, then does my thing have any other use to me.

Those things above may have different uses to different people and provide different amounts of non-dollar value to different folk, but they all have a use.

Bitcoin, say hyperthtically nobody else wants to swap anything they have for your bitcoin. What are you going to use it for. You can't even put it in glass case on the mantlepeice and tell your grandkids about how you got it. At least even a dollar bill you can put in a collection album and let your great-grandkids touch it whilst you tell them about how people used to think paper was actual money whilst chewing on a Worthers Orignal.

Block-chain technology might have a use. But that isn't bitcoin. That is like saying internal combustion engine technology is good, thus a Robin Reliant is an awesome solution to transportation.

You're giving the U.S. dollar too much credit. It hasn't been returnable for a portion of the gold in Fort Knox since Nixon was president.

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Carantoc said..

$USD - it is debt from the US Government and a guarantee that the US government will provide you with something. If nobody else wants to buy my USD and give me an Aussie doller for it I can still go to the US central bank and get something. A bit of gold, a service or whatever.

or any other currency - same thing from those place, Some are less trustworthy or less trusted than the US to honour that debt.

I fail to see the difference to bitcoin. Paper Currencies do not have any other use, except maybe toilet paper.

If you had a choice between one bitcoin or one dollar, which one would you choose and why?

It's not a trick question, it's a basic intelligence test.

Back in 2018 there was a study that suggested that 44% of BTC trade was for illegal purposes.

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bjw said..
Back in 2018 there was a study that suggested that 44% of BTC trade was for illegal purposes.

Was that study peer reviewed?

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myscreenname said...
If you had a choice between one bitcoin or one dollar, which one would you choose and why?
It's not a trick question, it's a basic intelligence test.

Is the question one bitcon versus one dollar today, or bitcoin versus dollar more generally?

Generally I'd say dollars.

.because I'd only have either to use as a currency. I wouldn't have either just because of the awesomeness of the concept behind them. (unlike my royal wedding memrobilia, which I have because it was such an awesome event and I so just like literally love them them all).

..and the 'value' of bitcoin is only ever assessed against the dollar, not the goods or services it is being exchanged for.

...and its 'value' is incredibly volatile against the dollar. So much so it has no real use as a currency.

....but it has to be volatile. Because if it wasn't then all the speculators would sell back to dollars and its value would plummet. Then everyone else would sell back to dollars and it would be worth no dollars. Then it would only be kept going by a bunch of geeks and hobbists as some sort entertainment, and be no more than imaginary football cards, without the actual stickers or reference to any footballer. So just imaginary nothing.


I see the very reason people promote bitcoin as the ultimate currency (the 'no central control') as the very reason it can't be.

Society isn't all that good at self regualtion. We evolved to fight to survive. Non central regulation only works in the minds of communists and dreamers, but not in the real world.

Real currencies need some sort of central governance to keep them stable. Otherwse inflation / deflation and/or volatility renders them useless. Like bitcoin as a currency.

I might not like it, but it is an empiracal fact. The science is in.

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myscreenname said..

bjw said..
Back in 2018 there was a study that suggested that 44% of BTC trade was for illegal purposes.

Was that study peer reviewed?

"The research was conducted by Sean Foley of the University of Sydney, Jonathan R. Karlsen of the University of Technology Sydney, and T?lis J. Putni?? of the Stockholm School of Economics in Riga.It bears mentioning Foley and Putnins are both PhD holders, while Karlsen is a PhD candidate - these are hardcore data scientists who are experts in the fields of economics and finance."

To be fair, a huge amount of money would be funnelled though the drug and dodgy military trade.

Is it any surprise that when Russia got sanctioned BTC went to the moon (the Russian space station)

Good news rimmers!

After a decade of being rejected by the U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission, this morning they announced that the spot Bitcoin price can be traded as an ETF. It will start trading Monday on up to 11 exchanges in the U.S.

What this means is that millions of normies now can trade bitcoin without ever actually holding the cryptocurrency.

So bitcoin has been formally legitimized by The U.S government.

Weird hey.

Bitcoin's value increases when more central regulation is imposed.

Chair of US SEC who just approved bitcoin based ETFs doesn't seem to share some people's enthusiasm for it as a whole :

"Though we're merit neutral, I'd note that the underlying assets in the metals ETPs have consumer and industrial uses, while in contrast bitcoin is primarily a speculative, volatile asset that's also used for illicit activity including ransomware, money laundering, sanction evasion, and terrorist financing," he said.

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Carantoc said..

Is the question one bitcon versus one dollar today, or bitcoin versus dollar more generally?

Generally I'd say dollars.

.because I'd only have either to use as a currency. I wouldn't have either just because of the awesomeness of the concept behind them. (unlike my royal wedding memrobilia, which I have because it was such an awesome event and I so just like literally love them them all).

..and the 'value' of bitcoin is only ever assessed against the dollar, not the goods or services it is being exchanged for.

...and its 'value' is incredibly volatile against the dollar. So much so it has no real use as a currency.

....but it has to be volatile. Because if it wasn't then all the speculators would sell back to dollars and its value would plummet. Then everyone else would sell back to dollars and it would be worth no dollars. Then it would only be kept going by a bunch of geeks and hobbists as some sort entertainment, and be no more than imaginary football cards, without the actual stickers or reference to any footballer. So just imaginary nothing.


I see the very reason people promote bitcoin as the ultimate currency (the 'no central control') as the very reason it can't be.

Society isn't all that good at self regualtion. We evolved to fight to survive. Non central regulation only works in the minds of communists and dreamers, but not in the real world.

Real currencies need some sort of central governance to keep them stable. Otherwse inflation / deflation and/or volatility renders them useless. Like bitcoin as a currency.

I might not like it, but it is an empiracal fact. The science is in.

I'm sorry to have to inform you of this, but unfortunately on this occasion you failed the intelligence test.

Your rating is as follows: 0/10 - intellectual dwarf

We all must remember that it is in the best interest of bitcoin speculators to rave about bitcoin as much as possible. The more punters/lemmings who buy into it, the higher the price of bitcoin coin goes. If interest fades the bitcoin price drops as there are fewer buyers. Lots got burned last time the bitcoin price dropped, a similar fate awaits the next lot who hop onboard for the wild ride. A bitcoin ETF will allow more punters to access bitcoin easily, but will it help stabilise the price, only time will tell. The current system to purchase bitcoin is a shyt show, so many scams.

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Carantoc said..
Weird hey.

Bitcoin's value increases when more central regulation is imposed.

Chair of US SEC who just approved bitcoin based ETFs doesn't seem to share some people's enthusiasm for it as a whole :

"Though we're merit neutral, I'd note that the underlying assets in the metals ETPs have consumer and industrial uses, while in contrast bitcoin is primarily a speculative, volatile asset that's also used for illicit activity including ransomware, money laundering, sanction evasion, and terrorist financing," he said.

What's interesting is that when Bitcoin was first proposed as an ETF by the Winklevoss twins on July 1, 2013, Bitcoin traded for around $90.80. A $1,000 investment in Bitcoin could have purchased 11.0132 BTC at the time.

Based on a price of $47,316.45 now, the $1,000 investment would be worth $521,105.52 today. This represents a hypothetical return of over 52,000% over the last 10 years.

Maybe it's the $US dollar that's going to zero.

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myscreenname said..
Your rating is as follows: 0/10 - intellectual dwarf

'tell us something new. We know that. Its been proven many times on these very forums. Mainly by Carantoc.

Then again, they say to make yourself look slimmer just hang around with fat people....


If you had a choice between one bitcoin or one ETF that held one bitcoin, which one would you choose and why?

It's not a trick question, it's a basic intelligence test.

Self custody of your own bitcoin is the only way.
Bitcoin through an ETF isn't really 'your' bitcoin and can be confiscated or 'quarantined' by government or the firm (think FTX or similar).
ETF will definitely help drive consumer interest and once on board hopefully many will research the importance of self custody.

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Carantoc said..

If you had a choice between one bitcoin or one ETF that held one bitcoin, which one would you choose and why?

It's not a trick question, it's a basic intelligence test.

I don't want to be judged by a panel of intellectual dwarves. I want someone like Waleed Aly to assess my answer.

^
Fair enough.

But I am sure we can still keep it in-house.

What about .... FormulaNova. Pretty sure he'd have an insightful opinion on the matter.

Although, if you are wanting Waleed-level intellect we might have to dive deep into the dusty archives and resuscitate past forumers like...I dunno... maybe Adolph, or perhaps going back further Oliver.