Gnaraloo station have started up Gnaraloo Wilderness Foundation . The foundation is asking for donations to help it in its quest for the full protection of flora , fauna and natural habitat . Gnaraloo station have been intentionally farming so called ' feral ' goats , a declared invasive pest in WA from their coastal mills ,which has had a huge negative impact on the coastal biodiversity of the area . With this in mind , potential donors and supporters are being duped and mislead by Gnaraloo Wilderness Foundation .Gnaraloo station by definition of their own gobsmackingly poor land management practice's are the worst environmental threat this section of the Ningaloo coast faces !. More disturbing its not just Gnaraloo doing this . Quobba , Ningaloo and Warrora to an extent have all been ' farming ' ' harvesting' so called feral goats at $70 per head, its money for almost nothing and doesn't encourage permenamt eradication by pastoralists , in fact it encourages unsustaibable ongoing farming for the lucrative live ' feral ' export industry ! .

The worst part of what our self labled stewards and custodians of our coastline are doing is , the equation of the minimal profits from feral goats that 4 pastoralists are making is disgraceful put up against the destruction of our irreplaceble native coastal biodiversity . These 4 pastoralists are doing very well on a blah blah tax free ca$h per head , per night from tourists , Gouging extra $ by degrading the coast by ongoing farming of feral goats is greedy and unacceptable to a legitimate land manager . Below is a pastoral land condition report prepared by DAFWA for the PLB . How many pastoralists are doing the wrong thing ? . Is Gnaraloo or Quobba doing the wrong thing ?

Completely eradicating feral goats would be almost impossible, so surely harvesting them now they're worth some coin will help the environment?

Hey everyone welcome to 2011!!!!


www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/General-Discussion/Chat/WindsurfSupsurf-trip-Gnaraloo?page=1

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
Hey everyone welcome to 2011!!!!


www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/General-Discussion/Chat/WindsurfSupsurf-trip-Gnaraloo?page=1

Good one mark... I was sure I could remember seeing this before as well...

anyway, I'm off to get a goat burger... yom yom...

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..
Hey everyone welcome to 2011!!!!


www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/General-Discussion/Chat/WindsurfSupsurf-trip-Gnaraloo?page=1

C'mon Mark, I was just warming up.

This is controversial
1) The caretakers need an income all year
2) It would be hard to wipe the goats out there is millions of them, may as well get cash, you can't go round shooting every one
3) They encourage them a bit much we stayed at the bluff and we got raided by a goat in the middle of the day eating raw pasta, one night I thought me mate was eating all the chips but it was a kangaroo and he wanted to beat me up after 6-8 beers quite scary.
Another time there was a black cat like a bloody jaguar and we had half a dozen salami/pork snoggers hanging up and the jaguar took 3 one day and tried to get the rest but we had locked them in the esky.
Than there was a big shark that chased us in at -"&$;$ and it was too small for the bluff so we had to go back their the next day again and pretend there was no shark.
Also a snake got into our shack.

But guys keep an eye out on those goats they'll get ya.

Serious note they have eaten everything and every tree there is no vegetation left near the coast

Select to expand quote

Leprechaun said..

Spot the nannie goats in this 2013 harvest from Gnaraloo station? . Not even 1 ! . This is why our coastline is being destroyed . If Gnaraloo were bonafide in goat eradication , they wouldnt be only exporting male goats would they ?.

Select to expand quote

Leprechaun said..

Leprechaun said..

Spot the nannie goats in this 2013 harvest from Gnaraloo station? . Not even 1 ! . This is why our coastline is being destroyed . If Gnaraloo were bonafide in goat eradication , they wouldnt be only exporting male goats would they ?.

Welcome to the Anthropocene. The 6th major mass extinction. It's happening all over the world. No trees on the coast over here either. It reduces the income of the Ocean-view-trophy-home speculators.

Goats could easily be kept at a level which preserves vegetation. All you have to do is cut back on wild dog control.

www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/0b78ac9f-c442-4fe1-9f96-8205f505a4c8/files/feral-goat.pdf




"Where dingos and wild dogs are present, feral goats generally do poorly. However, they are often found in sheep-grazing areas, where dingos and wild dogs have been removed or heavily controlled by pastoralists."

Back in the day vegetation was in the predator prey mix.
www.personal.psu.edu/sxt104/class/Math251/Notes-Predator-Prey.pdf
Predators kept prey numbers low enough for a range of vegetation to maintain a hold. Humans are an exception so far as predators go. We manipulate prey numbers for maximum profit. If you reincarnated as a Billy goat would you rather take your chances with dingos or the live export market?

Be careful about getting too wound up about it though. It can harm your health. Best to take an ambivalent interest in the whole thing. Look out for the Opportunists of the Anthropocene and cheer them on. Surely there's a prickly weed taking hold at Gnaraloo that can thrive in spite of the abundant goats? Any species of lizards doing well in the shadeless expanse? Are any open country raptors doing well?

Interesting topic with many Desert PEEs and Plants

Professional / profound / peoples / politics /policies/ protected / pastoral /processes /plans / professors / /pensioners / personalities /passion / pride /pioneers / poxi / pussy/ personal /pokers / /punches / ****s / pillers / poles / poor / pissed / peanuts / pegs /pie / pot's / pans / potato's/ pioneers / pillows / ponies / polonies / peace /pipes / pot /possessed /pigs / posers / pilots and pros

You hear stories , roamers and heaps of UFB / UNIDENTIFIED FLYING BULL**** / coupled with the tourist articles , ABC radio interviews , and Find me a wife dramas

Now can I say something just my observation / with a full stop.

my top 3 disenchantments

1 Fence line

The fence line (which is now basically no existent) should have been replaced well over 15 years ago as It protected the entire camp ground , all campers , all the environment all many shrubs and trees now many have disappeared and what is left has halved in size from the southerly and there are many more Bowen out camp sites and dust bowls / The fence line was the go to place with limited camping equipment all you need was a tarpaulin 2 3 posts guides and pegs for sun protection and you

2 Poxi fly blowen sheep

Poxi fly blown sheep living in and around and under your camp / ****ting all over the ground /causing ya to constantly getting a toe jam and if that not enough how about flys not bush hot easterly flys / flys of the ass end of the sheep on ya stake eggs and sausages them to ya on ya face reef cuts

3 Goats and sheep introduced pest with a lack of protection and fencing wow full

I experienced many years where Spring Sprang or Sprung Spring / profound thick carports of flowers succulent's and low shin high bushes with variety thick coastal and bush grasses would leaped up to ya knee around the camp ground and along the beach frontal strip from the lagoon through all the way to surfers point and beyond . It was always extra motivation for your early spring surf trip . It used to reminded me of the story and play we performed as school kids from the biblical days where Jacobs was delivered the most colored jacket from Jesus / god to wear any one had ever seen ( where I performed inside and as the tree)
You I can not blame it on climate change and a lack of winter rain (yer a factor ) as this area experiences the heaviest of dews
The goats and sheep and other animals allowed to freely roam this coastal strip is a crime .
If valued tourism and environmental preservation as a priority , a fence from behind the logon scorpion ridge to the shop then across behind the shop and all the way out to the point off the cuff 200 500 m unseen all the way behind the point carparks around the ridge back doen to the coast .....................bring back what we go there to experience the costal strip in flower with out feral goats and sheep.

4 Remove the 2 Yellow Posts on the coast line depicting Fisheries / Dept of transport boundaries just south of the camp ground

The 2 LARGE UGLY YELLOW Posts erected by the Department Transport ? / planning? / Fisheries depicting the coordinates of a band and protection marine no zone, present unnecessary eye saw to the aesthetics of the coastal strip / who in there right mind would put them at that location and at that height and size / t bright yellow thick and large posts that block the coastal view and deprive ALL of its natural beauty from nearly every camp site your natural view south down the coastal strip of the bays , beaches ,cliff line .horizon , and views of the surf breaks sunsets are defined by two random yellow posts ////// There erecting Seriously defies any logic or understanding of the coast topography and aesthetics with sunsets / why people go there , It would be a great case study for how you damage tourism via infrastructure stupidity , poor planning and looking at the bigger picture and other user first coupled with some basic logic there would be a case to answer for causing associate environmental vandalism . ?????

The department of infrastructure planning / dept Transport / dept of fisheries the Carnarvon council should take a look ?

Select to expand quote

Chris6791 said..
Completely eradicating feral goats would be almost impossible, so surely harvesting them now they're worth some coin will help the environment?

Eradicating goats at Gnaraloo would be very simple Chris . All they need to do is remove male and female goats in equal numbers . Because feral goats are worth money , our enterprising pastoralists are only harvesting male goats and leaving females along with a few males to ensure next years harvest . This is ongoing farming / husbundry which the pastoral industry curiously and vehemently deny. Below is w6hat Gnaraloo wilderness foundation are promoting as their mantra for the protection of the area . The problem is , nothing could be furher from the truth ! .

" The core of Gnaraloo's wilderness foundation is the protection of landscape and associated habitat and all native flora and fauna therin , wether coastal and or marine at the surface , subsurface and sky levels at Gnaraloo , both within and adjacent to Ningaloo coasts world heritage area in WA ",

Select to expand quote

Chris6791 said..
Completely eradicating feral goats would be almost impossible, so surely harvesting them now they're worth some coin will help the environment?

Cant see how goats being worth some coin would be any benifit to the environment Chris ? . Concentrates of these hard hoofed browsers in any environment ends up with the environment being severely degredated or destroyed . Were you referring to another environment ?

Select to expand quote

Razzonater said..
, one night I thought me mate was eating all the chips but it was a kangaroo and he wanted to beat me up after 6-8 beers quite scary.

Thats just crazy, drunk fighting kangaroos..

Here's one of my holiday memories from a 2014 Bluff trip . The Bluff and surrounds have been severely degraded over the last 10 years .

1 goat is more destructive in this fragile coastal environment than 50 sheep . Sheep are grazers , goats are selective browsers that completley strip the native perennial shrubs of foilage which kills the plant .

ive been visiting dirk hartog island for 13/14 years now, im amazed how the island has bounced back since they removed goats from the island, i was there when the guys were shooting them, and they still do regular heli flights to knock off the stragglers, itd be interesting to see an image pre and post goats to show what distruction to natural bush they cause, a regular team of shooters and a chopper would knock numbers down quickly, whilst theyre at it kill all cats

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..
ive been visiting dirk hartog island for 13/14 years now, im amazed how the island has bounced back since they removed goats from the island, i was there when the guys were shooting them, and they still do regular heli flights to knock off the stragglers, itd be interesting to see an image pre and post goats to show what distruction to natural bush they cause, a regular team of shooters and a chopper would knock numbers down quickly, whilst theyre at it kill all cats

Good post Cauncy , satellite imagary is a useful tool for seeing the before and after feral goats have been allowed to establish themselves through poor land management . These 3 google earth images 1, 2004 . 2, 2007 . and 3 , 2013 showcase what feral goat farming has done to Red Bluff , a special tourism lease on Quobba station . Note the demise in shrub density and erosion around the escarpment ! .

No bush, no birds , no skinks, lizards, mice, mice bring snakes, and so it goes on, it becomes a desert
goats are c--ts unless in a Kashmiri goat curry
also the wind erosion then takes place due to lack of vegetation deeming it very difficult to recover

I don't disagree that the goats are causing massive damage, but is the the lease holders responsibility to control them? Did they introduce them?

How do you determine that all the goats herded up are males?

The goats on that section of the coast has been a real problem for years.
It was sheep country at one time, not sure that was any better.
We have been going to Dirk Hartog for around 40 years now.
The place is still a total mess.
Such low rainfall country.
The Sand blows entering Tetradon Loop are still getting worse. The silting from this is the worst I have ever seen it, when we visited earlier this year.
I doubt it will ever recover to how it once was. Such a fragile environment.

There is no place for goats in this environment.

The Humans and their 4 wheel drives tearing up the place, collecting firewood and defecating every where is not helping or adding to the general ambience either.

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..
goats are c--ts unless in a Kashmiri goat curry
also the wind erosion then takes place due to lack of vegetation deeming it very difficult to recover

The goats aren't the c--ts in this story, they're animals trying to survive in the harsh environment they've been placed in.
I'm sure they'd prefer to be in a nice green field somewhere.

Why do we so often re-direct our anger about our environmental fxckups on to animals.
We label them pests then it's open season, shoot them from helicopters and think it's amusing.
Are we just cruel bullies?

The problem is always us - not the animals

One of the most fun parts of a job with a State government dept i a had years ago was shooting feral goats and camels from helicopter's, i really looked forward to that program each year....ahhh good times.....Goats are bad, they must be punished!

But seriously, the problems goats cause to the natural environment are a very serious issue that we shouldn't take lightly ( like any invasive and feral species). If pastoralist can be rewarded financially for removing them, then that's a great move forward as long as its done properly and not considered by them as a infinite source of revenue. And there's lies the issue. If a pastoralist has a committed plan to eradicate goats from their lease great progress can be made however the real concern is that there's the potential to farm the animals to encourage an increase in numbers and therefore revenue....which is what people are saying here.

Regulate how the pastoralist manage the goat populations on their lease and combine additional funding for people to fly around in helicopters and shoot crap of them at the same time.....eventually we'll make some in roads.

Unfortunately that's not going to happen, So there's still a financial incentive for pastoralists to get them off the land so we should give them half a chance to do it.....if they're milking it and breeding for financial gain hit them with fines that remove the incentive to do so.

Your right on the money Surf69 ,relevant govt depts are not managing the pastoral industry in accordance with the LAA 1997, on sustainable management practices and their duty of care to maintaining native biodiversity .

At this point those interested should read the DAFWA 2013 pastoral lands condition report carefully . It would seem ' many ' WA pastoralists are in breach of the LAA 1997 . This report and subsequent pastoral land condition reports dating back to 2009 /2010 , reveal a sharp decline in shrub densities and overall rangeland health . Although the stock responsible for causing this sharp decline in rangeland health is not mentioned in these reports , i firmly believe ongoing feral goat farming is at the heart of this problem . How many pastoralists are breaching the LAA is anyone's guess ?. DOL curiously state that this is private information . Must make you wonder ? .

Leprechaun,
The fact remains that there is little to no funding to regulate how goats are being managed by Pastoralists and given the two biggest heavy hitters who contribute the greatest to WA's GDP are both Pasoralists and the primary lobbyist of the state government there's little to no chance of effective changes being made in the short term, particularly given the state governments current challenges managing the states dilapidated coffers.

Its sad , yes...but remains a fact that there are so many high priority issues that the state is faced with that the environmental degradation by invasive species or introduced species, is way down the line in the list of priority's the government currently face. We will recognise in the future what a stuff up that's been, and hell I've noticed a massive difference in 30 years that has shocked the crap out of me and its heart breaking , however I've also come to realise that unless you are a Panda bear that's cute and cuddly or a shark that's terrifying you simply wont get the weight of the population behind you to put the pressure on the government to facilitate the changes that are required to make a difference as the Cost v's Benefit to them in a 4 year term simply isn't there.

So....in a nut shell yes something needs to be done. However it wont happen... unless those who are committed, actually do it themselves i.e.- volunteer to develop and implement a plan with specific measurable and achievable KPI's that will qualify and quantify the issues, then with that, develop an action plan. From there, volunteer to implement the plan, which i would suggest would include many km's of fencing for one. There's funding available through grants that would help....as long as someone can do the submissions.

What I've learnt in my many years involved with marine and terrestrial conservation and land management is the only way positive change evolves is if you do it yourself. So... i can see this is a passionate issue for you and you'd like to see positive change as i would and many others so if you get it to the stage where you're calling for volunteers to help erect fencing etc as one of the mitigation measures then my family and i will be up there to assist in a heart beat. In the meantime more effort into affirmative action is required, and that's going to be more than a full time job, so i hope you have plenty of time up your sleeve and a small team to assist because without it, nothing will change.

Select to expand quote

Surf69 said..
Leprechaun,
The fact remains that there is little to no funding to regulate how goats are being managed by Pastoralists and given the two biggest heavy hitters who contribute the greatest to WA's GDP are both Pasoralists and the primary lobbyist of the state government there's little to no chance of effective changes being made in the short term, particularly given the state governments current challenges managing the states dilapidated coffers.

Its sad , yes...but remains a fact that there are so many high priority issues that the state is faced with that the environmental degradation by invasive species or introduced species, is way down the line in the list of priority's the government currently face. We will recognise in the future what a stuff up that's been, and hell I've noticed a massive difference in 30 years that has shocked the crap out of me and its heart breaking , however I've also come to realise that unless you are a Panda bear that's cute and cuddly or a shark that's terrifying you simply wont get the weight of the population behind you to put the pressure on the government to facilitate the changes that are required to make a difference as the Cost v's Benefit to them in a 4 year term simply isn't there.

So....in a nut shell yes something needs to be done. However it wont happen... unless those who are committed, actually do it themselves i.e.- volunteer to develop and implement a plan with specific measurable and achievable KPI's that will qualify and quantify the issues, then with that, develop an action plan. From there, volunteer to implement the plan, which i would suggest would include many km's of fencing for one. There's funding available through grants that would help....as long as someone can do the submissions.

What I've learnt in my many years involved with marine and terrestrial conservation and land management is the only way positive change evolves is if you do it yourself. So... i can see this is a passionate issue for you and you'd like to see positive change as i would and many others so if you get it to the stage where you're calling for volunteers to help erect fencing etc as one of the mitigation measures then my family and i will be up there to assist in a heart beat. In the meantime more effort into affirmative action is required, and that's going to be more than a full time job, so i hope you have plenty of time up your sleeve and a small team to assist because without it, nothing will change.

Good stuff Surf69 , and definitely a true insight in to the unfortunate reality im reluctantly forced to accept . What gets on my goat , and is the bitterest of pills to swallow is when these goat herding , environmental vandals create foundations inviting donations toward the protection of the coastline they're destroying . The public must be made aware of the reality of this slieght of hand !.

Select to expand quote

kk said..
I don't disagree that the goats are causing massive damage, but is the the lease holders responsibility to control them? Did they introduce them?

Just about every lease that our state government issues puts the responsibility to control declared fauna and flora, onto the leaseholder.

They sign the lease - they accept the conditions that go with the lease.

Select to expand quote

Leprechaun said..

Surf69 said..
Leprechaun,
The fact remains that there is little to no funding to regulate how goats are being managed by Pastoralists and given the two biggest heavy hitters who contribute the greatest to WA's GDP are both Pasoralists and the primary lobbyist of the state government there's little to no chance of effective changes being made in the short term, particularly given the state governments current challenges managing the states dilapidated coffers.

Its sad , yes...but remains a fact that there are so many high priority issues that the state is faced with that the environmental degradation by invasive species or introduced species, is way down the line in the list of priority's the government currently face. We will recognise in the future what a stuff up that's been, and hell I've noticed a massive difference in 30 years that has shocked the crap out of me and its heart breaking , however I've also come to realise that unless you are a Panda bear that's cute and cuddly or a shark that's terrifying you simply wont get the weight of the population behind you to put the pressure on the government to facilitate the changes that are required to make a difference as the Cost v's Benefit to them in a 4 year term simply isn't there.

So....in a nut shell yes something needs to be done. However it wont happen... unless those who are committed, actually do it themselves i.e.- volunteer to develop and implement a plan with specific measurable and achievable KPI's that will qualify and quantify the issues, then with that, develop an action plan. From there, volunteer to implement the plan, which i would suggest would include many km's of fencing for one. There's funding available through grants that would help....as long as someone can do the submissions.

What I've learnt in my many years involved with marine and terrestrial conservation and land management is the only way positive change evolves is if you do it yourself. So... i can see this is a passionate issue for you and you'd like to see positive change as i would and many others so if you get it to the stage where you're calling for volunteers to help erect fencing etc as one of the mitigation measures then my family and i will be up there to assist in a heart beat. In the meantime more effort into affirmative action is required, and that's going to be more than a full time job, so i hope you have plenty of time up your sleeve and a small team to assist because without it, nothing will change.

Good stuff Surf69 , and definitely a true insight in to the unfortunate reality im reluctantly forced to accept . What gets on my goat , and is the bitterest of pills to swallow is when these goat herding , environmental vandals create foundations inviting donations toward the protection of the coastline they're destroying . The public must be made aware of the reality of this slieght of hand !.

Agreed

Select to expand quote

sn said..

kk said..
I don't disagree that the goats are causing massive damage, but is the the lease holders responsibility to control them? Did they introduce them?

Just about every lease that our state government issues puts the responsibility to control declared fauna and flora, onto the leaseholder.

They sign the lease - they accept the conditions that go with the lease.

Here's an interesting article out of Farm Weekly , July 2016 that goes along way to debunking DOL'S and the pastoral industry's official line , that feral goats are not being intentionally farmed on WA,s pastoral lease's .

Opportunistic breeding of declared invasive pests is very dangerous for the environment . The fact that the industry's governing body , DOL deny any form of animal husbandry of feral goats is taking place on WA pastoral leases is particularly disturbing , this is , and will be , a huge negative outcome for the future of the Ningaloo coast and WA's pastoral land ! .

www.farmweekly.com.au/story/5672894/goat-market-triggers-opportune-breeding/

Select to expand quote

Leprechaun said..

sn said..

kk said..
I don't disagree that the goats are causing massive damage, but is the the lease holders responsibility to control them? Did they introduce them?

Just about every lease that our state government issues puts the responsibility to control declared fauna and flora, onto the leaseholder.

They sign the lease - they accept the conditions that go with the lease.

Here's an interesting article out of Farm Weekly , July 2016 that goes along way to debunking DOL'S and the pastoral industry's official line , that feral goats are not being intentionally farmed on WA,s pastoral lease's .

Opportunistic breeding of declared invasive pests is very dangerous for the environment . The fact that the industry's governing body , DOL deny any form of animal husbandry of feral goats is taking place on WA pastoral leases is particularly disturbing , this is , and will be , a huge negative outcome for the future of

This article taken from ' The Land ' magazine proves that feral goat farming was being promoted by Meat & Livestock Australia back in 2007 as easy money for WA's pastoralists . This system is geared so there is no ownership of feral goats , therefore no accountability can be attributed to pastoralists for damage caused to their lease's . .

Select to expand quote

Leprechaun said..

Leprechaun said..

sn said..

kk said..
I don't disagree that the goats are causing massive damage, but is the the lease holders responsibility to control them? Did they introduce them?

Just about every lease that our state government issues puts the responsibility to control declared fauna and flora, onto the leaseholder.

They sign the lease - they accept the conditions that go with the lease.

Here's an interesting article out of Farm Weekly , July 2016 that goes along way to debunking DOL'S and the pastoral industry's official line , that feral goats are not being intentionally farmed on WA,s pastoral lease's .

Opportunistic breeding of declared invasive pests is very dangerous for the environment . The fact that the industry's governing body , DOL deny any form of animal husbandry of feral goats is taking place on WA pastoral leases is particularly disturbing , this is , and will be , a huge negative outcome for the future of

This article taken from ' The Land ' magazine proves that feral goat farming was being promoted by Meat & Livestock Australia back in 2007 as easy money for WA's pastoralists . This system is geared so there is no ownership of feral goats , therefore no accountability can be attributed to pastoralists for damage caused to their lease's . .

So..... if no one owns them... anyone should be able to take out as many as they like?

Do your worst Leprechaun...

Select to expand quote

Leprechaun said..

Leprechaun said..

sn said..

kk said..
I don't disagree that the goats are causing massive damage, but is the the lease holders responsibility to control them? Did they introduce them?

Just about every lease that our state government issues puts the responsibility to control declared fauna and flora, onto the leaseholder.

They sign the lease - they accept the conditions that go with the lease.

Here's an interesting article out of Farm Weekly , July 2016 that goes along way to debunking DOL'S and the pastoral industry's official line , that feral goats are not being intentionally farmed on WA,s pastoral lease's .

Opportunistic breeding of declared invasive pests is very dangerous for the environment . The fact that the industry's governing body , DOL deny any form of animal husbandry of feral goats is taking place on WA pastoral leases is particularly disturbing , this is , and will be , a huge negative outcome for the future of

This article taken from ' The Land ' magazine proves that feral goat farming was being promoted by Meat & Livestock Australia back in 2007 as easy money for WA's pastoralists . This system is geared so there is no ownership of feral goats , therefore no accountability can be attributed to pastoralists for damage caused to their lease's . .